does anybody know for a fact that the awe intake losses hp on a rs7 that apr tuned ?

[nickrs7]

does anybody know for a fact that the awe intake losses hp on a rs7 that tuned ? i no on m5 you lose hp

[GTS21]

x2. Would like to know definitively as well.

[TurtleHaste]

I don't think a vendor will reply here. The best bet is to dyno with the intake, and again with the stock air box and an aftermarket filter to be fair. The filter is surely one restriction, but if it's the design you're trying to test, I would use the same filter if possible. Not sure if it fits in the stock airbox. But there are others out there who have done this and have claimed to have lost power when going to a closed box setup. The more power you were making, the more significant loss would be, if any.


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[nickrs7]

Here you go.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11412312

What did you think, that we made this up? :-)

thank you

[GTS21]

Looking to verify what APR found in their testing. Also, wasn't that a Stage 2?

[VVG]

What I would like to know is WHY is there a loss in power? I can't imagine that the shape of the box makes a lick of difference. The CF is for the look, and if the filter is less restrictive, then why the loss?

I don't get it at all

[MadAboutCars]

It comes down to the size of the single front intake. In the past the higher powered 4.0T in the S8 had two intakes and two filters. To overcome this in the RS6/7 (since they had no room for the second intake and filter) they added an additional intake at the rear of the air box and fitted a bigger diameter air filter. AWE's CF air box takes away this rear intake. IIRC they said in another thread, that they were working on a solution for this.

[Brooklyn]

When they want to release something they are all over the fricking place. Now the validity of their performance claims is being questioned and it's crickets. If it turns out this is true, I'll never buy a single product of theirs in the future. There is no way a tuning company could have produced a product and not test the performance impact, much less confuse a significant loss in performance with an increase as they claim.


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[[email protected]]

Just a guess as someone in the industry, not an AWE retailer mind you, is that when the intake was built there was no stage 2 software and there was no issue with performance. On stock or stage 1 software the intake probably performed well and as advertised, then power levels went up and the restriction was discovered. Sounds like they have a solution and AWE has always been stand up from what I've seen so I'd expect them to take care of any owner going stage 2 that has the intake now.

Not taking side, just looking at it logically and considering that I highly doubt AWE would purposely fudge numbers if they are willing to publicly state they have a solution coming.

Cheers,

[Josh/AWE]

Couple key areas to cover here.

I think it’s worth stating that, unlike the documented history of other players in the market, performance and integrity of our product claims is what the AWE Tuning brand is all about. So we’re going to address the questions head on.

Our S-FLO and Carbon Intake line has been at it for over a decade, with 22 of intakes currently in our catalog, with tens of thousands on the streets worldwide today. Since we control the R&D in house, we have the means to evolve and listen to the market, and we’re doing that right here. Off we go!

The current AWE Tuning RS7 Carbon Fiber Intake was developed in Q2 2015, using GIAC software. It produced gains of 18 WHP and 9 WTQ (max 20 WHP and 19 WTQ), as measured on the AWE Tuning in-house Mustang Dyno.

The Stage 2 tune that subsequently came to market much later and has been mentioned in this thread produces dramatically more power (airflow) than what was presented in our initial R&D.

Here’s an overlay of the two files for a bit of context:



Upon hearing about these rumors a couple months, we investigated them. We take this seriously. We brought in a vehicle equipped with this other brand’s Stage 2 software and RS7 turbo kit, and dyno’d it on our own development dyno. What we documented was that our intake, in its original design state, was slightly restricting airflow with this aggressive Stage 2 software, to the tune of a peak loss of 4 WHP and a gain of 1 WTQ (worst of the losses were at 6250 rpms, with an 8 WHP and 8 WTQ deficit).

Here are the dyno sheets from that day:



Then we cut a hole in our intake to mimic the feature found on the RS7 factory intake. We then saw peak power gains of 15 WHP and 13 WTQ when coupled with this aggressive tune, vs the stock RS7 intake. Maximum gains seen with this alteration were centered around 5180 rpms with a broad area in the 18 WHP and 19 WTQ range.
Since there are some that will be running these more aggressive tunes, we have commenced R&D on an updated design that will be suited for what could be considered “Stage 2” tunes, Version 2.0 of this intake.

Bottom line, let’s be transparent:

The current AWE Tuning RS7 Carbon Fiber Intake produces documented, repeatable peak power gains of 18 WHP and 9 WTQ (max 20 WHP and 19 WTQ) on a Stage 1 file, particularly the GIAC one we tested on.

Does the current AWE Tuning RS7 Carbon Fiber Intake lose 40 WHP when coupled with an aggressive Stage 2 software tune? No, not even close.

For those looking for a more aggressive quarter mile-oriented vehicle, we’re producing a Version 2.0 for use with aggressive files.

Questions? I’m here.

[tonymission]

Couple key areas to cover here.

I think it’s worth stating that, unlike the documented history of other players in the market, performance and integrity of our product claims is what the AWE Tuning brand is all about. So we’re going to address the questions head on.

Our S-FLO and Carbon Intake line has been at it for over a decade, with 22 of intakes currently in our catalog, with tens of thousands on the streets worldwide today. Since we control the R&D in house, we have the means to evolve and listen to the market, and we’re doing that right here. Off we go!

The current AWE Tuning RS7 Carbon Fiber Intake was developed in Q2 2015, using GIAC software. It produced gains of 18 WHP and 9 WTQ (max 20 WHP and 19 WTQ), as measured on the AWE Tuning in-house Mustang Dyno.

The Stage 2 tune that subsequently came to market much later and has been mentioned in this thread produces dramatically more power (airflow) than what was presented in our initial R&D.

Here’s an overlay of the two files for a bit of context:



Upon hearing about these rumors a couple months, we investigated them. We take this seriously. We brought in a vehicle equipped with this other brand’s Stage 2 software and RS7 turbo kit, and dyno’d it on our own development dyno. What we documented was that our intake, in its original design state, was slightly restricting airflow with this aggressive Stage 2 software, to the tune of a peak loss of 4 WHP and a gain of 1 WTQ (worst of the losses were at 6250 rpms, with an 8 WHP and 8 WTQ deficit).

Here are the dyno sheets from that day:



Then we cut a hole in our intake to mimic the feature found on the RS7 factory intake. We then saw peak power gains of 15 WHP and 13 WTQ when coupled with this aggressive tune, vs the stock RS7 intake. Maximum gains seen with this alteration were centered around 5180 rpms with a broad area in the 18 WHP and 19 WTQ range.
Since there are some that will be running these more aggressive tunes, we have commenced R&D on an updated design that will be suited for what could be considered “Stage 2” tunes, Version 2.0 of this intake.

Bottom line, let’s be transparent:

The current AWE Tuning RS7 Carbon Fiber Intake produces documented, repeatable peak power gains of 18 WHP and 9 WTQ (max 20 WHP and 19 WTQ) on a Stage 1 file, particularly the GIAC one we tested on.

Does the current AWE Tuning RS7 Carbon Fiber Intake lose 40 WHP when coupled with an aggressive Stage 2 software tune? No, not even close.

For those looking for a more aggressive quarter mile-oriented vehicle, we’re producing a Version 2.0 for use with aggressive files.

Questions? I’m here.

Thank you very much for replying honestly and providing numbers to back it up. I still love the idea of this intake since I'm a CF slut. My only question would be: roughly when can we expect this v2.0 intake to be available for purchase?


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[Arin@APR]

Couple things:

• I did not state which intake, just that it was of a closed design (more than one is).
• Our stage 2 software has not released yet, despite what the AWE graphs say.

More data: Here are some Stage 1 results. 100 octane. Closed Intake (blue) vs Stock Intake (red).



Point: If you have our software, an aftermarket intake, and are dynoing low, before you call for support, try swapping to the factory intake and see if you pick up some more power.

Thank you.

-Arin



EDIT 1 - I missed this earlier, but VOL pointed it out. The AWE graph comparison isn't APR Stage 2 RS7 vs a GIAC Stage 1 RS7. It's an APR tuned S6, vs a GIAC tuned RS7.

EDIT 2 - The AWE Mustang dyno graph shows more power than we advertise to the wheels, from our Dyanapack dyno. This further debunks the claims our dynapack reads high / all Mustang dynos read low.

[jfeger]

I believe AWE is confused. Their dyno testing of their intake as evidenced by the dyno sheets above with the label "FAST4DR" is an S6 with RS7 turbos, NOT an RS7. Furthermore, I'm assuming these dyno tests were conducted using the 93 octane program. FAST4DR's S6 (which he likes to call an RS6) makes 100-150 HP less on 93 octane than a stage 1 RS7 on 100 octane. So this is probably why AWE didn't see as much of a restriction in their testing above. It's an apples to oranges comparison: APR saw the 42whp loss on a stage 1 RS7 making 628whp (factory intake) and your customer's RS7 turbo S6 on 93 octane is putting down 567whp which to me sounds pretty high so I wonder what kind of correction or altering was done since I know there are a ton of different things you can do on a Mustang dyno (vehicle weight, correction factors, filters etc). Anyway, to sum this up, you simply didn't dyno test a car making enough power to find the same restriction that Arin saw on the stage 1 RS7 running 100 octane. Hope this helps clear up any confusion.

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but the graph Arin posted shows the stock intake producing less power than the closed intake, per his description. Perhaps that is a typo and RED = stock? Im also not a dyno graph expert, so correct me if I am totally wrong.

[jfeger]

Just a typo. This discussion began in the APR cast downpipe thread entitled "which would you choose" when Arin first revealed that a "popular closed intake" lost 40whp on an in house tuned RS7 brought to them for additional tuning/development work. They put the stock RS7 airbox back on and voila, all the power come back. Now that Arin posted the actual dyno sheet we see that the loss is actually 42whp and it appears to be on a stage 1 RS7 running 100 octane. So the loss on a stage II RS7 with more aggressive tune could be even greater than 42whp. AWE likely saw less of a loss because they were testing the intake on an S6 with RS7 turbos on 93 octane which makes considerably less power than a tuned RS7 on 93 octane let alone one on 100 octane like in Arin's case where the aftermarket intake lost 42whp. The more aggressive the tune, the higher the octane, the more power you make. But if there's a restriction such as the aftermarket intake (probably an AWE although Arin never said which brand it was), it will also cause more of a power loss at higher power levels. AWE's test was therefore flawed, inconclusive and misleading.

Im following the other thread also, and yes, its interesting. I think your logic here seems reasonable. Its more than just having RS turbo's bolted into an S6. However, I think Josh/AWE was trying to do the best they could with the data in their possession. With regard to Arin referencing this lack of Stage II tune, isn't there a tune for those S6/7 folks with RS-turbo's? Even if its not called Stage II, its not the basic Stage I non-RS-turbo guys use, so I doubt AWE was pulling a fast one there.

Again, I am new here, and new to Audi, so I might be wrong.

[GTS21]

So will a solution be offered for current owners of the CF airbox?

[agent47]

So will a solution be offered for current owners of the CF airbox?

I think they are already working on a fix so hopefully you guys should be taken care of.

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[GTS21]

I think they are already working on a fix so hopefully you guys should be taken care of.

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Thanks

[Arin@APR]

Perhaps that is a typo and RED = stock? Im also not a dyno graph expert, so correct me if I am totally wrong.

Sorry. That was a typo.

[S4Per]

@Josh - any updates re development of v2 and policy on making it available to v1 owners? (FYI - mine is Stage 2 S6, heading - eventually - to stage 3).

[Josh/AWE]

S4P.

A new design has been born and prototyping has commenced. I'll relay more info as we venture forth. Feel free to email me directly so I have your contact info!

[GTS21]

Josh, does AWE intend to do relevant dyno testing this time around?

Can you loan them your 2015 matrix headlight RS7?

[GTS21]

S4P.

A new design has been born and prototyping has commenced. I'll relay more info as we venture forth. Feel free to email me directly so I have your contact info!

Josh...email sent. Thanks.

[mbauer0]

Can you loan them your 2015 matrix headlight RS7?

lmao....good one!

[ke116ngc]

S4P.

A new design has been born and prototyping has commenced. I'll relay more info as we venture forth. Feel free to email me directly so I have your contact info!

Josh, email sent. Thanks.