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  1. #1
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 23 2008
    AZ Member #
    32286
    Location
    Auburn, AL

    APR Presents the Stage III EFR7163 Turbocharger System!

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    APR Presents the Stage III EFR7163 Turbocharger System for the 2.0T EA888 Gen 3 engine!



    Product Page

    The APR Stage III Turbocharger System produces an incredible 522 HP and lays down 10-second quarter mile passes, all through a convenient, affordable and expandable, turn-key solution. It represents a threat to the establishment of turbo four cylinder vehicles of yesteryear, and breaks the hearts of muscle cars and exotics everywhere as they are left in the dust by an engine a third the size of theirs, screaming a turbocharged battle cry as it passes. It is a vicious beast, yet a beast easy to tame. It makes for a civilized daily driver that quietly sips premium fuel with surprisingly excellent mileage. Deceivingly quick transient response, with near stock-like turbo lag makes for an experience devoid of the compromises many would expect from an engine this size. It is the answer to the desire for more power, and it’s the brainchild of APR’s talented engineering teams, with over a year and a half of initial development, and a never ending drive for perfection. It is easy to install, blisteringly fast, and produces an absolutely exhilarating driving experience. Welcome to Stage III!







    Quick Facts

    Incredible Power
    Offering up to 522 HP, this is the most powerful 2.0T turbocharger system we have ever created!

    Blistering Acceleration
    10-second quarter mile passes, and 0-140 MPH sprints 15 seconds faster than a stock Golf R!

    Ultra-Responsive and Reliable Turbocharger
    A Borg Warner twin scroll EFR7163 delivers amazing top end power with incredible response all in a ultra-reliable turbocharger unit.

    Multiple Configurations and Room for Future Expansion
    Turn Stage III into Stage III+ with APR’s fueling system and get more power with more headroom to go further in the future.

    Turn Key Solution, Including Software
    No headaches sourcing parts or costly "dyno tuning." Stage III is a complete bolt on solution all the way down to the APR ECU Upgrade software that makes it all possible.

    Harmonious Balance Between Hardware and Software
    APR’s Engineers have done the hard work. They have tested what works and what does not to deliver a true bolt-on package worthy of the APR name.

    Premium Materials Throughout
    No corners were cut. Stage III only uses the highest quality materials and components.

    VISIT OUR SITE FOR AN INTERACTIVE MODEL




    Detailed component photos and information

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    Engine Management

    Included with the turbocharger system is APR’s world-renowned Stage III ECU Upgrade! This software upgrade installs on the factory ECU and requires no extra end user configuration or tuning and eliminates the need for costly piggyback controlling devices. Simply visit any APR dealer and the software installs in minutes!



    APR’s Engineers spent more than a year and a half researching and developing the factory engine management system to operate seamlessly with the extensive changes introduced at Stage III. This includes thousands of full power sweeps on the engine and chassis dynos, street and track. This was no simple task as power is well beyond the original configuration with extensive hardware changes. Through both ECU source code and calibration changes, APR’s Engineers converted the system to run with a substantially larger turbocharger, featuring a pneumatic wastegate actuator and larger MAP sensors. At Stage III+ power levels, the software supports larger port injectors and a larger fuel pump.



    To better understand the complexity of the engine management system, one must first understand the models within. The factory engine management system uses modeled, or simulated input, to control the engine without the need for costly sensors. While some sensors are still used, the ECU does not measure how fast the turbocharger is spinning, temperature of the exhaust gasses, or how much backpressure is in the turbine housing, among many other important things. When developing the factory calibration, sensors were used to measure each of these items and then models were made within the ECU and the sensors were removed. The ECU then relies heavily on expected behavior from factory components. However, if these components are altered, such as changing the turbocharger, the models no longer work and the engine no longer runs correctly. This is why properly created Stage III software is so critical.



    To properly configure the ECU, APR’s engineers spent months updating the ECU’s modeled information to the new hardware specifications. While on the engine dyno, various expensive and sensitive probes were installed throughout the engine allowing APR’s engineers to measure and alter critical information within the ECU. When hardware changes were necessary, APR’s Mechanical Engineers were able to make changes, rather than requiring the calibrators to tune around the shortcomings. APR’s incredibly powerful and proprietary ECUx data logging suite allowed APR’s engineers to monitor every change within the ECU at extremely high resolution, ultimately resulting in a calibration that is responsibly created. The ECU fully understands the changes Stage III brings, and as such, can properly manage and control the engine. Because of this, APR’s Engineers can aggressively seek exciting power levels without taking risky shortcuts. The engine operates more smoothly, enhancing everything from daily driving to full-on acceleration. Fuel economy is better and the ECU can properly protect the engine from dangerous operating conditions. To APR’s Engineers, it’s responsible tuning. To the driver, it just works.

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    Turbocharger and Wastegate

    Response, top end power, and reliability were all at the forefront of the Stage III turbocharger selection. Typically, these features do not go hand-in-hand. Larger turbos tend to be laggy, while small, responsive turbos lack top-end power. However, the Borg Warner EFR7163 has broken the mold. Featuring the latest advancements in technology, combined with APR’s advance tuning strategies, the ultimate in performance and reliability has been achieved!




    Power:
    The EFR7163 features a massive, 71mm forged-billet compressor wheel capable of outflowing the competition due in part to its extended-tip compressor geometry. By providing up to 60 lb/min in airflow, the turbocharger is capable of producing massive power and provides headroom for increasing output with future modifications.

    Response:
    To spin the massive compressor wheel quickly, the EFR7163 features a lightweight turbine wheel made from titanium aluminide, or Gamma-Ti, and feature new Mixed-Flow geometry. At nearly half the weight of conventional turbine wheels, the difference is extremely noticeable as transient response is lightning-fast upon smashing the accelerator! To further aid in low-end response without sacrificing top-end power, APR’s engineers built Stage III around the EFR’s optional T4 divided twin scroll turbine housing. This stainless steel housing is internally gated, making it the perfect solution for this application.




    Reliability:
    With reliability also at the forefront of APR’s engineering design criteria, the EFR continued to shine as the clear choice. APR chose the optional aluminum center section, which houses the EFR’s massive ceramic ball bearing housing. Unlike traditional housings, and journal bearings as found on the OEM IHI turbocharger, the bearing arrangement provides a large thrust-load capacity, and thus reliability, over other setups. Friction is reduced, turbocharger response is enhanced, and oil blow-by resistance is greatly improved, making the EFR an extremely reliable solution.

    Integrated Equipment:
    The EFR7163 features an integrated recirculation port for mounting the factory diverter valve (DV), boost control solenoid (N75) and wastegate actuator, all of which ultimately reduces complexity of the install, and reduces engine bay clutter. Furthermore, APR’s engineers integrated a stainless steel heat shield onto the turbocharger, to protect surrounding components. Each unit comes assembled and clocked, with the wastegate preload set, measured and tested, to ensure the unit simply bolts on without any modification necessary.



    Wastegate:
    The factory electronic wastegate can become problematic at higher output levels. The unit’s electronics are sensitive to heat, and the plastic gears within can strip and fail while struggling and failing to hold and control boost pressure. In the event of failure, replacements are typically only readily available by purchasing a new OEM turbo, making for a costly scenario.

    APR’s engineers upgraded the wastegate with an APR by TurboSmart dual-port, pneumatic unit, for its strength, reliability, protection and control over other units. The dual port design enables a high level of control, without the need for excessive spring pressure or preload on the wastegate. Unlike many other designs, this allows the wastegate to operate the turbo in a low-boost protection mode, should the need arise. Furthermore, the unit is capable of accurately controlling and holding higher boost pressure levels without prematurely cracking open, or overheating under prolonged use. The unit simply comes assembled, configured and installed on the turbo, ready for use!

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    Manifold Adapter

    The APR Exhaust Manifold Adapter is investment-cast using the nickel-chromium-based Inconel 625 super alloy, with reliability, strength and performance at the forefront of the compact, twin scroll design.



    Single Scroll vs Twin Scroll:
    In an effort to optimize performance through decreased turbocharger lag, quicker transient response, and maximized peak power, APR’s engineers designed and tested single and twin scroll manifold adapters. The twin scroll design was ultimately chosen as it spooled the turbocharger several hundred RPM sooner and offered no measurable tradeoffs.

    Inconel 625 Super Alloy:
    Inconel 625 is typically the material of choice on motorsport applications and was chosen for its exceptional strength and high temperature resistance characteristics. Compared to other common materials such as iron or lower grades of stainless steel, Inconel 625 is costlier, but withstands extreme exhaust gas temperature changes without expanding, contracting, cracking or melting under high stress.



    Investment Casting:
    A loss wax investment casting technique is used in the creation of each manifold as the method produces repeatable parts with organically shaped internal flow paths. Mounting surfaces are CNC machined flat, and manifold studs are preinstalled in-house. Exhaust gasses are smoothly routed through the adapter, reducing turbulence and exhaust back pressure, to further aid in performance. Lastly, unlike a hand-fabricated design there are no welds to stress and crack over time, further increasing the reliability of the APR design over other design methodologies.
    GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
    Phone: (800) 680-7921 Local Phone: +1 (334) 502-5181 Fax: +1 (334) 502-5180
    Address: APR LLC, 4800 US HWY 280 West, Opelika, AL 36801

  2. #2
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 23 2008
    AZ Member #
    32286
    Location
    Auburn, AL

    APR Presents the Stage III EFR7163 Turbocharger System!

    Silicone Hoses

    The turbocharger inlet and outlet hoses are designed with performance, strength, longevity, and total compatibility with all factory components.



    The hoses feature a multi-ply silicone design, which are internally lined with a flourosilicone coating. These materials were chosen to maximize performance, even under extreme conditions, and to protect against oil and gasoline degradation. Furthermore, at each connection point, the hoses use APR’s EZ-Flow stepped design to provide a port-matched surface transition, as it eliminates performance-robbing airflow disruptions associated with other designs.

    Each hose is oriented such that it is completely compatible with all OEM parts. The turbocharger outlet pipe simply slips over the factory turbocharger discharge pipe, while the turbocharger inlet pipe uses CNC machined, billet aluminum adapters that mimics the OEM mounting surfaces for the PVC hose and intake hose. Lastly, a billet vacuum reference port for the wastegate’s boost solenoid is preinstalled on the intake adapter, simplifying the install.

    Reducing the chance of a leak is critical to performance and as such, the pressurized turbocharger outlet pipe features two high-strength stainless steel T-Bolt clamps from Clampco. The non-pressurized turbocharger inlet hoses use clean and low-profile, OEM-style Oetiker clamps to hold the billet adapters and comes preinstalled. Lastly, a worm gear clamp is used to easily attach the turbocharger inlet pipe to the turbocharger.

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    Exhaust Downpipe

    The Borg Warner EFR Turbocharger’s outlet size differs from the factory turbocharger and as such, a new 3” V-Band downpipe is necessary and included. For customers with an APR Cast Downpipe Exhaust System, the included portion replaces the upper cast section and mates directly to the APR Catalyst Midpipe. For customers without an APR Cast Downpipe Exhaust System, the APR Catalyst Midpipe is available separately. The midpipe is fully compatible with the factory catback exhaust system.



    The 3” V-Band downpipe is created from T304 stainless steel and features cast bends with argon back purged TIG welding throughout. The system uses APR’s low profile OEM style flex section, non-protruding oxygen sensor bung, and thick mounting bracket. Each downpipe is assembled, finished and quality controlled in-house.




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    MAP Sensors and Boost Tap

    To provide accurate closed-loop boost control through the factory ECU, new MAP sensors and mounting hardware are included. The ECU is recoded to fully work with the upgraded sensors, completely eliminating the need for clumsy and archaic stand-alone boost controllers. In doing so, the ECU retains control over the turbocharger and provides better daily drivability with increased safety.



    The pre-throttle MAP sensor is upgraded with a Bosch 4-bar sensor. The factory post-throttle T-MAP sensor is retained for accurate temperature readings and a 5-bar sensor is included and attached to the manifold through the included APR Stage 3 Boost Tap. All necessary hardware for mounting and configuring the boost tap is included.

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    Oil and Coolant Lines

    The factory oil and coolant feed and drain lines are upgraded with new, application-specific lines that are designed to provide years of leak free operation.



    The braided stainless steel oil feed and drain lines come fully assembled and feature CNC mandrel bent hard-lines for clean and specific routing as if intended by the OEM. Both o-rings are replaced and a Borg Warner gasket is included.

    The coolant feed and return lines also feature CNC mandrel bent hard-lines with custom low profile banjo bolts and copper crush washers. Flexible Borg Warner coolant hoses are used throughout, and a rubber heater hose with anti-abrasion shrink-flex connects the system to the heater core. OEM spring clamps make the install easy, and a one time use oetiker clamp provides a strong and leak free connection between the hose and factory fittings. Lastly, DEI heat shielding is included, protecting the coolant lines from heat.

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    Wiring Harnesses



    No invasive cutting or splicing of the factory wiring harness is necessary as new MAP sensor, wastegate solenoid and DV extension harnesses are included. Each harness comes fully assembled for a simple plug and play install.

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    Spark Plugs



    To cope with raised cylinder pressure and temperature, new Denso Iridium IKH24 spark plugs are included. The plugs operate at a heat range colder than stock, which results in better pre-detonation resistance and spark plug life under extreme conditions.

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    Install Hardware



    All install hardware is included for a complete install. This includes Loctite, assembly lube, an exhaust v-band clamp, Clampco T-Bolt clamps, worm gear clamps, Oetiker clamps, OEM spring clamps, turbo support bracket, Borg Warner and OEM gaskets, low-profile banjo bolts, copper crush washers, copper lock nuts, nuts, washers, bolts, studs, MAP sensor install tool, boost tap cap, various heat shielding materials and a zip-tie.

    APR has a worldwide network consisting of many professional shops capable of performing installation of this turbocharger system. To accompany our world-class technical support hotline, a full, printed, step-by-step install manual is included to make the install process smooth and simple!

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    Dyno Testing





    To see all Stage 3 and 3+ results, on both platforms, visit our Product Page.

    Calibration Report



    Acceleration Testing







    - Acceleration data collected at the same location with a US Spec 2015 Volkswagen Golf R DSG Stock via a Racelogic P-Box's actual data files (not screen data) with ESP disabled, race/dynamic mode, sport mode, and automatic redline shifts. Stage III+ 93 figures collected with a US Spec 2015 Audi S3, APR Stage III+ with intake, intercooler, midpipe, TCU Upgrade, APR wheels, Michelin Tires and Brembo Brakes. Results will vary depending upon location, environmental conditions, vehicle, transmission, shift points, vehicle health, operating conditions, temperatures, fuel grade, weight, tires, other modifications and more. (1-FT) indicates 1 foot roll out timing.

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    Requirements and Recommendations

    Fueling



    To achieve Stage III+ power levels APR’s upgraded injectors and fuel pump are required. No fueling upgrades are required for Stage III power levels.

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    Exhaust System



    The APR Front Wheel Drive Midpipe or APR All Wheel Drive Midpipe is required if the vehicle is not already equipped with an APR downpipe. The factory catback exhaust may remain unmodified.

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    Intake System



    The APR Carbon Fiber Intake System is recommended and required to meet the advertised power levels.

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    Intercooler and Charge Pipes



    The APR Intercooler System is recommended and required to meet the advertised power levels. APR intercooler and throttle body boost hoses are recommended for the best results.

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    Transmission



    APR cannot make any guarantees as to the longevity of the OEM manual transmission clutch or DSG/S Tronic clutches in every transmission and therefore an upgraded clutch, such as APR's upcoming DSG Clutch Packs, are recommended and may be required depending on the stage, octane, driving style and clutch health. APR’s Stage III DQ250 TCU Upgrade is required for DSG / S Tronic models.

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    Engine Internals



    Stage III and III+ power, torque, boost, cylinder pressure and temperature levels and more are substantially higher than stock. APR cannot make any guarantees as to the longevity of the factory engine internals or all factory components on every engine. As such, APR recommends upgrading rods/bearings, pistons/rings and valve springs for increased engine reliability and longevity, especially when using race fuel, or Stage III+.

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    Spark Plugs



    Denso Iridium IKH24, gapped to 0.024" ±0.002" or 0.6mm ±0.05mm with a change interval of 10-15,000 mi or 16-24,000 km spark plugs are included and required.

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    Oil and Coolant



    APR recommends using Motul oils, coolants and lubricants with the APR Oil Catch Can System. APR strongly recommends an ester based oil, such as Motul 300V 10w40.

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    Application Guide

    Vehicles:

    - Audi A3 (Typ 8V / MK3)
    - Audi S3 (Typ 8V / MK3)
    - Volkswagen GTI (Typ 5G - MK7)
    - Volkswagen Golf R (Typ 5G - MK7)

    Engines:

    - 2.0 TFSI EA888 Gen 3
    - 2.0 TSI EA888 Gen 3

    Transmissions:

    - 6 Speed Manual
    - S Tronic
    - DSG

    Drivetrain

    - Front Wheel Drive
    - All Wheel Drive

    Market

    - North America (Rest of World markets / vehicles to follow)

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    Pricing



    Turbocharger Loyalty Program

    We’re pleased to announce the turbocharger upgrade path just got a little easier little for our loyal APR customers. If you’ve purchased an APR ECU Upgrade and want to upgrade to one of our turbocharger systems, you can take advantage of fantastic savings! It’s our way of saying “thank you” for enjoying our ECU Upgrades before stepping up to the big leagues! To see the savings, look over the pricing tiers below.

    T3100080 - Front Wheel Drive (GTI)
    T3100079 - All Wheel Drive (A3/S3/Golf R)

    $4,999.99 - Existing APR ECU Upgrade Customer
    $5,499.99 - New Customer

    Please Note: An APR Dealer MUST check software availability and compatibility before purchase.

    To purchase, please find an APR dealer!

    Thank you and Go APR!
    GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
    Phone: (800) 680-7921 Local Phone: +1 (334) 502-5181 Fax: +1 (334) 502-5180
    Address: APR LLC, 4800 US HWY 280 West, Opelika, AL 36801

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings Blairautomotive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 11 2015
    AZ Member #
    341857
    Location
    Frisco Texas

    After seeing these kits in person at the APR dealer conference I went and bought an S3 the next week. That should tell you something! Beautiful work from a truly dedicated group of guys up there at APR!
    2016 Audi S3 Viper Green Audi Exclusive, AWE Switchpath Exhaust, HREff15, Stoptech 380mm, Emmanuele Design Springs and Carbon Fiber, Eurocode Sways/links, APR Stage 3+
    2016 Golf R Oryx White DSG
    Master Guild Audi Tech
    Owner of Blair Automotive in Frisco Texas
    www.blairautomotive.com
    North Texas dealer for APR, AWE Tuning, VMR Wheels, JHMotorsports, 034, Eurocode, ECS Tuning.

  4. #4
    Registered User Four Rings XLR8 Craig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 14 2014
    AZ Member #
    145469
    My Garage
    Audi's
    Location
    Branford, CT

    Long time in the making and so happy to see this release.

    We have a car scheduled for install of a 3+ kit as soon as our stocking order arrives. Stay tuned for installation photos.

    We will have a few FWD and a few AWD kits any day.. they're on their way to our facility as we speak. Intercoolers, hose kits, catch cans, intakes, stage 2 inlet pipes, and all other MK7 supporting hardware are in stock at Excelerate Performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blairautomotive View Post
    After seeing these kits in person at the APR dealer conference I went and bought an S3 the next week. That should tell you something! Beautiful work from a truly dedicated group of guys up there at APR!
    One heck of a move, nice work brother! Couldn't agree more on the APR comment.


    -Greg

  5. #5
    Veteran Member Four Rings AllroadCorbin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 15 2014
    AZ Member #
    139081
    My Garage
    B5 S4 (sold) | Saab 9-3 | B8.5 Allroad (sold) |B9 Allroad (totaled) | LB7 Duramax
    Location
    Boston, MA

    Holy Shit that's awesome
    B8.5 Allroad | APR | CTS K04 - SOLD
    B9 Allroad
    B5 S4 | GermanElite | SRM K24
    '11 Mercedes C300
    '05 Saab 9-3
    '92 Saab 900s

  6. #6
    Senior Member Three Rings DarkSideGTI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 05 2008
    AZ Member #
    24943
    Location
    SL,UT

    Stage 3+ looks pretty awesome, but very expensive all in all. I figure it will cost at least $10,000.00.

    That is including:

    1. APR Stage 3 kit: $5,500.00
    2. APR Fueling Kit: $1,500.00
    3. APR Midpipe: $500.00?(not on website)
    4. APR intake: $450.00
    5. APR Intercooler: $900.00
    6. Built Motor: $1,500 + (depends on builder and parts used)
    7. Installation if you don't do it yourself.

    You will also likely need clutches down the road as stated above.

    At this point, at least for me, it might be worth it to buy a car that will run 10's from the factory or with very little modifications.
    2017 Avalanche Raptor
    2015 Monsoon Grey S3

  7. #7
    Senior Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Feb 13 2015
    AZ Member #
    315099
    Location
    VA

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSideGTI View Post
    Stage 3+ looks pretty awesome, but very expensive all in all. I figure it will cost at least $10,000.00.

    That is including:

    1. APR Stage 3 kit: $5,500.00
    2. APR Fueling Kit: $1,500.00
    3. APR Midpipe: $500.00?(not on website)
    4. APR intake: $450.00
    5. APR Intercooler: $900.00
    6. Built Motor: $1,500 + (depends on builder and parts used)
    7. Installation if you don't do it yourself.

    You will also likely need clutches down the road as stated above.

    At this point, at least for me, it might be worth it to buy a car that will run 10's from the factory or with very little modifications.
    A tuned S6 is looking better and better to me as well.
    2015 S3 - Revo Tuned
    2016 SQ5
    2008 F350 - Pistons/Cam/Studded/Deleted/Single Turbo
    2010 GT500 - Twin Turbo

  8. #8
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 23 2008
    AZ Member #
    32286
    Location
    Auburn, AL

    I have my doubts many customers will be going all in from stock. We've designed the kit, and our stages to complement each other. Most of you will start with stage 1 and move up to stage 2. By the time you're considering stage 3, you'll already have the midpipe, intake, intercooler, catch can, and DSG software. From that point, You'll need stage 3, and fueling. Some may build the motor right away, some may not, and some may never do it. The same goes with the trans, some may add clutches, and some may never do it. In the end, it will be up to you.
    GoAPR.com | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Instagram
    Phone: (800) 680-7921 Local Phone: +1 (334) 502-5181 Fax: +1 (334) 502-5180
    Address: APR LLC, 4800 US HWY 280 West, Opelika, AL 36801

  9. #9
    Senior Member Two Rings montess2001's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 20 2008
    AZ Member #
    24359
    Location
    Westchester, NY

    Awesome work guys!
    Current: 2015 SQ5 / 2016 ATS-V 6MT
    Mods: 034 Stg I + TCU / H&R+B8 / Neuspeed Rse103 20x9.5 et 25 / Carlinkit
    Previous: 8V S3 Daytona launch ed. / E92 M3 6MT / E39 M5 / B7 A4 Ibis 6MT Ti big turbo.

  10. #10
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Dec 21 2015
    AZ Member #
    366143
    Location
    Melhbach, Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by S3Danny View Post
    A tuned S6 is looking better and better to me as well.

    Still your now moving an extra 1000 lbs in the S6.... need tons more power to run the same times. Reason why the S3 is faster than most of its bigger brothers with far less power. New cars are getting too fat.

    Stage 3 looks good. Interested to see other get this done and long term results.
    2016 Audi S3 (CTS Intake, JB1, dogbone, AWE track catback..)
    2002 Trans Am WS6 (Sold)
    2012 SRT8 (Sold)
    1997 Viper GTS (Sold)
    2006 Z06 (Sold)
    2004 Viper SRT10 (Sold)
    2010 GT500 (Sold)

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings HurrayFive's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 21 2013
    AZ Member #
    119364
    Location
    Remote

    Looking good guys, my shop is very much wanting me to pull the trigger on one of these. I have to admit I was hoping w/ the loyalty program that the price would come out a bit closer to 4K.

    Yo APR, you should consider an IS38 core exchange program as part of this upgrade; if I can give you a low-mileage IS38 in exchange for $500-$1000, it saves me the hassle of trying to privately sell the IS38 to help fund this little venture...food for thought

    '25 M8 Comp GC Frozen Tanzanite on Ivory/Night Blue - 11.0 @ 126 bone stock

  12. #12
    Senior Member Three Rings DarkSideGTI's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 05 2008
    AZ Member #
    24943
    Location
    SL,UT

    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    I have my doubts many customers will be going all in from stock. We've designed the kit, and our stages to complement each other. Most of you will start with stage 1 and move up to stage 2. By the time you're considering stage 3, you'll already have the midpipe, intake, intercooler, catch can, and DSG software. From that point, You'll need stage 3, and fueling. Some may build the motor right away, some may not, and some may never do it. The same goes with the trans, some may add clutches, and some may never do it. In the end, it will be up to you.
    I fully understand the pricing. I am more complaining that I don't want to be tempted to dump moar money into my S3. dumped 25-30k into my R32 and I don't want to repeat that. =]
    2017 Avalanche Raptor
    2015 Monsoon Grey S3

  13. #13
    Registered User Four Rings XLR8 Craig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 14 2014
    AZ Member #
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaine View Post
    Still your now moving an extra 1000 lbs in the S6.... need tons more power to run the same times. Reason why the S3 is faster than most of its bigger brothers with far less power. New cars are getting too fat.

    Stage 3 looks good. Interested to see other get this done and long term results.
    Yup. APR's S3 flat out moves. The power delivery is so smooth You have no idea how on earth you got to 120mph just mere seconds after launch.

  14. #14
    Veteran Member Four Rings phillyquattro's Avatar
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    10-second quarter mile passes, and 0-140 MPH sprints 15 seconds faster than a stock Golf R
    15 seconds faster than a stock Golf R to 140? Either there's a decimal point missing or your Golf R has square shaped wheels. LOL.

    Kit looks absolutely amazing though!
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Three Rings DarkSideGTI's Avatar
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    The stock turbo would be blowing out a lot of hot air at the end of a 0-140 mph run, so it is possible. I haven't ever taken my S3 up that high yet. But looking at their graphs above it doesn't seem unreasonable. My car has a lot of low end and get's out of the hole quick, but has no top end.
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    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    I did 0-140 in 30.2 seconds, stock. Stage 3+ 93, I did it in 15.1 seconds.
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  17. #17
    Veteran Member Four Rings will13k7's Avatar
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    wow, that's a beautiful kit.

  18. #18
    Veteran Member Four Rings phillyquattro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    I did 0-140 in 30.2 seconds, stock. Stage 3+ 93, I did it in 15.1 seconds.
    Holy $#!t! I figured that had to be a typo. Wow...just wow.
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Three Rings DarkSideGTI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    I did 0-140 in 30.2 seconds, stock. Stage 3+ 93, I did it in 15.1 seconds.
    was this on the road or dyno?
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  20. #20
    Veteran Member Four Rings Frinkferta's Avatar
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    Pickup a basic A3 2.0T Quattro for 20k, throw this kit on, BAM! Instant sleeper.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaine View Post
    Still your now moving an extra 1000 lbs in the S6.... need tons more power to run the same times. Reason why the S3 is faster than most of its bigger brothers with far less power. New cars are getting too fat.

    Stage 3 looks good. Interested to see other get this done and long term results.
    That's fine, the car is used as my commuter anyway. A tuned S6 is really quick and I much prefer the sound of a V8 over the 2.0.

    Quote Originally Posted by phillyquattro View Post
    Holy $#!t! I figured that had to be a typo. Wow...just wow.
    That's what double the factory horsepower will do for you, assuming that APR's numbers are taken at the wheels.
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  22. #22
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSideGTI View Post
    was this on the road or dyno?
    Road.
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  23. #23
    Veteran Member Four Rings ieatfishburitos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    I have my doubts many customers will be going all in from stock. We've designed the kit, and our stages to complement each other. Most of you will start with stage 1 and move up to stage 2. By the time you're considering stage 3, you'll already have the midpipe, intake, intercooler, catch can, and DSG software. From that point, You'll need stage 3, and fueling. Some may build the motor right away, some may not, and some may never do it. The same goes with the trans, some may add clutches, and some may never do it. In the end, it will be up to you.
    Raises hand as someone who wants to skip the bs and go from stock to stage 3.. A few package options with discounts would be nice since you just threw down the gauntlet with this kit (nice work). I guess else I can go piecemeal the rest of the components which will likely mean I'll be buying parts from many vendors rather than all APR.
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  24. #24
    Active Member Two Rings
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    3 more years and my warranty is done. By that time I already saved enough for a built motor and trans to accommodate this kit well. I strongly believe to do it right the first time. It will eventually save me a lot of trouble in the long run.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rj1031 View Post
    3 more years and my warranty is done. By that time I already saved enough for a built motor and trans to accommodate this kit well. I strongly believe to do it right the first time. It will eventually save me a lot of trouble in the long run.
    I know the A3 would require a built motor. What about the S3?

    I'm yet to see anyone reach the motor limits on the new S3 motor or a post stating "I threw a rod due to too much power and motor came apart due to the rods..ect." I know the DSG transmission is weaker than the S3 motor due to pressure plates slipping over 380TQ, but where is the limits of the DSG Transmission before internals fail? What is the limit of the S3 stock motor and what part fails (Rods? Pistons?) I'd rather know the limits before dumping money into upgrading the S3 motor. Alot of modified motors sometimes end up WEAKER than OEM unless assembled to perfection. And there is a difference between failure due to a TUNE and failure due to part failure.

    I know there is no fail safe exact number science, but a ball park is usually found out eventually when the people start pushing these motors to the extremes. When our cars can push a Stage 3 and still not fail thats a GOOD sign and a better sign that you could easily push a Stage 2 for long term. When the Stage 4's come out the Stage 3 will look even safer.

    Numbers on the Stage 3 is just WoW. It would be a X6 WoW if you could get a way with a Stage 3 and reliable with nothing more than supporting mods and DSG pressure plates. One heck of a sleeper.
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  26. #26
    Senior Member Three Rings roadrunner_oz's Avatar
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    Baffles me why anyone would consider doing this stage 3? Just go and spend that cash on an M3/M4 or C63 that has been engineered in Germany to perform at those levels, rather than some aftermarket hack job.
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  27. #27
    Active Member One Ring
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    Kit looks baddass. I would like to second the motion on discounts when purchasing some of the supporting mods...

  28. #28
    Veteran Member Three Rings Halfbreed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadrunner_oz View Post
    Baffles me why anyone would consider doing this stage 3? Just go and spend that cash on an M3/M4 or C63 that has been engineered in Germany to perform at those levels, rather than some aftermarket hack job.
    To an extent I agree. I can't imagine paying $40-50k on an S3 then dropping another $10k over all in parts. Especially when you can get the majority of the same performance on just stage 2. I also don't like some of APRs methods or marketing. But to call this kit a hack job, you are clearing just tying to be disrespectful. Leave the that garbage for your own threads and let people appreciate the advancement of the platform.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Three Rings DarkSideGTI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadrunner_oz View Post
    Baffles me why anyone would consider doing this stage 3? Just go and spend that cash on an M3/M4 or C63 that has been engineered in Germany to perform at those levels, rather than some aftermarket hack job.
    I wouldn't go calling this a hack job. The kit is well engineered and looks good.
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  30. #30
    Senior Member Three Rings SPB.2127's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadrunner_oz View Post
    Baffles me why anyone would consider doing this stage 3? Just go and spend that cash on an M3/M4 or C63 that has been engineered in Germany to perform at those levels, rather than some aftermarket hack job.
    APR puts together an extremely well engineered and designed kit (with an impressive release announcement) that puts to shame anything I've ever seen from almost any aftermarket performance company and you refer to it as an "aftermarket hack job"? I've only been following the MQB A3/S3 thread for a couple weeks and no matter where you post you seem to fire shots at APR. Clearly you're relatively new here and obviously you have never actually produced or marketed any products of your own to support this or any other Audi platform.

    Take a look at the B5 S4 platform. There are still people going stage 3 on cars that are over 15 years old and they're investing much more than what APR's complete kit costs on a car valued at under $8k on average. People enjoy modifying and going fast even when the cost is irrational to most.

    PS you cant really compare the RWD M3/M4 and C63 to an AWD S3. But if we are, a stage 3 S3 will walk all over and cost less than the vehicles you listed.
    -=-

  31. #31
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaine View Post
    I know the A3 would require a built motor. What about the S3?

    I'm yet to see anyone reach the motor limits on the new S3 motor or a post stating "I threw a rod due to too much power and motor came apart due to the rods..ect." I know the DSG transmission is weaker than the S3 motor due to pressure plates slipping over 380TQ, but where is the limits of the DSG Transmission before internals fail? What is the limit of the S3 stock motor and what part fails (Rods? Pistons?) I'd rather know the limits before dumping money into upgrading the S3 motor. Alot of modified motors sometimes end up WEAKER than OEM unless assembled to perfection. And there is a difference between failure due to a TUNE and failure due to part failure.

    I know there is no fail safe exact number science, but a ball park is usually found out eventually when the people start pushing these motors to the extremes. When our cars can push a Stage 3 and still not fail thats a GOOD sign and a better sign that you could easily push a Stage 2 for long term. When the Stage 4's come out the Stage 3 will look even safer.

    Numbers on the Stage 3 is just WoW. It would be a X6 WoW if you could get a way with a Stage 3 and reliable with nothing more than supporting mods and DSG pressure plates. One heck of a sleeper.
    I suspect A3 and S3 engines to be the same in terms of strength at these power levels. The factory does state they've "beefed up the S3" but their definition didn't really consider 520+ HP.

    We've pounded the A3 engine on the engine dyno and were unable to make it fail, even at power levels and torque levels higher than offered here. However, as we state on the website, we can't possibly know if that will be true for every engine and we can’t possibly say it will last “forever” like a stock engine would. Consider, some fail stock. Some have weaker components. Saying a power level that’s “too much” would simply be a guess.

    Rods – Most assume rods are all that need to be upgraded. However, we haven’t seen them as the weak point. This has been true for the last couple platforms as well. The MK6 Golf R EA113 and MK6 GTI Ea888 Gen 1 rarely fail. I honestly can’t say I’ve seen many issues unless something else happened, like an oiling issue. They just don’t fold over like the older early FSI engines and 1.8T engines of the past. That’s not to say they can’t, but if upgrading the engine, this shouldn’t be your only focus.

    Pistons and rings – This seems to be the most common weak point over the past few platforms. Many upgrade rods alone but leave the stock pistons and rings. The weak point ends up being the top ring in this case. As the ring looses tension from the increased pressure, heat, miles and so forth, fuel and oil can get past the ring, lead to detonation, and crack the edge of a piston. This isn’t a tuning error, it’s just reality on worn parts. Leak down tests can be used to help detect it early. So when upgrading, strong pistons with a focus on top ring control, and high quality rings are what we would recommend.

    Wrist Pins – I can’t say I’ve seen failure here, even on past platforms. When upgrading, we like pistons that allow for a stout wrist pin, perhaps stubby, to limit deflection. Ultimately this limits piston distortion and helps protect the ring seal.

    Bearings – The factory bearings aren’t very wide. If using a cheap oil, and long oil changes, the oil will sheer and the bearings will wear. We suggest using coated bearings, and running an ester based engine oil for maximum protection and our favorite has been Motul 300V 10w40. I just simply can’t stress enough how important oil changes are. If you drive hard, expect the oil to break down faster. If you track the car, you should start on a fresh oil change and change it after your track day. Be wise and take care of the engine and it will last far longer!

    Transmission – Gears / internals and what not. Over the years I haven’t heard of many common issues like gears exploding. Clutches are all you typically see. Our DSG software will be necessary as it will enable the transmission to hold the clutches beyond factory torque limits. As time goes on, they will likely wear, and driving style, continuous launching, oil change intervals, and oil temps will all play into longevity. When they start to go, they typically start slipping, gradually. They may become shuddery. Usually this is something that happens over time, and isn’t an over night occurrence necessitating the need for a change. If you’re in that position, upgrading the clutches is the way to go. We have a solution coming that offers a pretty substantial upgrade.

    Hope that helps!
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  32. #32
    Established Member Two Rings CbutterK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadrunner_oz View Post
    Baffles me why anyone would consider doing this stage 3? Just go and spend that cash on an M3/M4 or C63 that has been engineered in Germany to perform at those levels, rather than some aftermarket hack job.
    So, I had a 2015 S3 for a year at stage 1+, and sold it to a good friend and purchased a 2016 M3. I can tell you for a fact that you will be very disappointed if you think the M3 will out perform the stage 3+ S3. I am neither pro or con APR. I've used their products on my TT-RS, TTS, & Previous CC with great results, and I'm currently GIAC product user with great results as well. Having owned both cars you are referring to, your statement is incorrect due to below;

    1) Price : Most M3/M4/C63 sell in the $75K-$85K range, vs S3 that sells in the $40-$50K range. So even with the $10K for stage 3+, the S3 is still $15K to $30K cheaper than the M3/M4/C63. S3 win.
    2) Performance numbers : M3/M4-425ish HP(3600lbs), C63-460ish HP(3900lbs), Stg 3+ S3-522hp(3400lbs) S3 win.
    3) Real world Performance : With the AWD, my stage 1+ S3 accelerated quicker from 0 to 60, while my full bolt on JB4 M3 with 535HP(supposedly) just wastes about 200 of those horses peeling out with RWD. S3 win.

    This coming from a previous S3/current M3 owner, the stg 3+ S3 is going to be one of the best value super cars out there, and the Stage 3+ Golf R even more so. Don't get me wrong, I love my F80 M3, especially with the full bolt on set up at 535hp, but I can only use that power advantage at 60mph+, so not very practical IMHO. Also, I track my cars frequently, and I miss being able to full throttle out of apex on the S3, as the M3 requires a more conservative roll on the throttle approach,unless you just want to be slow and show off with tire wasting drifts...
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  33. #33
    Established Member Two Rings ECP's Avatar
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    APR Presents the Stage III EFR7163 Turbocharger System!

    Very nice kit. I have the stage 3+ on order for my 2016 s3!

  34. #34
    Senior Member Three Rings roadrunner_oz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halfbreed View Post
    To an extent I agree. I can't imagine paying $40-50k on an S3 then dropping another $10k over all in parts. Especially when you can get the majority of the same performance on just stage 2. I also don't like some of APRs methods or marketing. But to call this kit a hack job, you are clearing just tying to be disrespectful. Leave the that garbage for your own threads and let people appreciate the advancement of the platform.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSideGTI View Post
    I wouldn't go calling this a hack job. The kit is well engineered and looks good.
    Apologies, wasn't meaning to offend or direct this at APR or having a go at their kit. The point was more to spending large amounts to bring an S3 up to the power levels of other car model choices which are already at that level already engineered with components designed to work with that power output. Enough said.
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  35. #35
    Stage 2 Banner Advertiser Four Rings Arin@APR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadrunner_oz View Post
    [ . . . ] spending large amounts to bring an S3 up to the power levels of other car model choices which are already at that level [ . . . ]
    [ . . . ] is the point of modding, and why we are here, and why we all love it so much. :)
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  36. #36
    Senior Member Three Rings SPB.2127's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arin@APR View Post
    [ . . . ] is the point of modding, and why we are here, and why we all love it so much. :)
    Preach!
    -=-

  37. #37
    Veteran Member Four Rings hodrosS42001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadrunner_oz View Post
    Baffles me why anyone would consider doing this stage 3? Just go and spend that cash on an M3/M4 or C63 that has been engineered in Germany to perform at those levels, rather than some aftermarket hack job.
    I have been running an APR Stage 3 kit on one of my cars since 2009.. APR builds reliable kits..

    Secondly, the advertised performance of this kit.. is in a whole different league then the M3/M4/C63.. unless they are modified heavily as well.. and wouldn't that ruin your argument?

    Your comment is quite ignorant.

  38. #38
    Senior Member Two Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by hodrosS42001 View Post
    I have been running an APR Stage 3 kit on one of my cars since 2009.. APR builds reliable kits..

    Secondly, the advertised performance of this kit.. is in a whole different league then the M3/M4/C63.. unless they are modified heavily as well.. and wouldn't that ruin your argument?

    Your comment is quite ignorant.
    Have you ever needed to upgrade any of your engine components on your stage 3 cars? Just curious. I know it is in APR's best interest to recommend this at certain levels but just wanted some real world feedback on how the stock internals dealt with the huge power increase.
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  39. #39
    Senior Member Three Rings roadrunner_oz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hodrosS42001 View Post
    I have been running an APR Stage 3 kit on one of my cars since 2009.. APR builds reliable kits..

    Secondly, the advertised performance of this kit.. is in a whole different league then the M3/M4/C63.. unless they are modified heavily as well.. and wouldn't that ruin your argument?

    Your comment is quite ignorant.
    Have had S2 modded BMW's, tracked them both too, so been down that path. You can't just add huge power for a chassis that was never designed to take that as the power is simply not all usable. It is my opinion and experience that if you want to add stage 3 type power, then the better option is to start off with a higher performance platform with a lesser stage. If you gave me the choice of a stage 3 S3 vs a stage 1 M3, I know which one would be the better handling and composed/balnced car and which more reliable.

    I get it that we all love to mod, but was trying to look at thing from a practical aspect. I am sure APR didn't produce their stage 3 if their wasn't a big demand for it.
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  40. #40
    Veteran Member Four Rings hodrosS42001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jshwon View Post
    Have you ever needed to upgrade any of your engine components on your stage 3 cars? Just curious. I know it is in APR's best interest to recommend this at certain levels but just wanted some real world feedback on how the stock internals dealt with the huge power increase.
    I have a 2.7T it's a brick sh*t house. But the S3 2.0T has forged rods.. with cast aluminum pistons. The best comparison to reliability is what they have done oversea's. David Lee has thousands of miles on his Golf R with a TTE450+/ now custom Turbo... his engine has been rock solid with 450+ bhp .. now even ~600bhp .. he had no issues with the DSG at sub 450 ft lbs of torque either. He's one of the owners/cars that you need to look at as a benchmark for reliability.

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