Brake Upgrade

[s42014DSG]

Hi All,

Brakes are shot and it's time to switch out rotors and pads. Research quickly identified HPS 5.0 pads as a strong option for increased braking power, heat resistance and other measurable benefits. However I'm confused when it comes to rotors. What exactly is it that the usual aftermarket options (StopTech, ECS, Adams, etc.) offer over standard OEM rotors beyond slots/dimples/cross-drills?

Is there a rotor that offers measurable increases in stopping power and fade resistance over stock, that is not part of a BBK system?

Thanks!

[bhvrdr]

When choosing to go with a different pad it may help to try and decide what you are wanting out of a new pad that the stock one is not giving you. New pads come in many different flavors and can give you very different characteristics depending on what you are after.

The OEM pads actually have a pretty great heat range to them. They're pretty aggressive. The stock fluid may not hold up well but there havent been a lot of people that chunk the OEM pads. The OEM pads also offer probably some of the best initial bite that you are going to get going with a street pad. Now some people dont like that much initial bite and like a more progressive mu pad so that may factor into your wants. The other downside is that naturally with an aggressive pad like the OEMs are you can get a bit of noise sometimes and you will get quite a bit of dust.

If you want to reduce dust and noise, you're going to likely compromise braking power a bit. Akebono ceramic would be an example. You may give up a bit of heat range and bite but with a ceramic you will get a huge reduction in brake dust (and the dust that does happen is whitish / greyish), probably no noise, and outstanding longevity. I personally, like having more brake power than low dust so I just put up with the dust. Now, lets say you dont care about the dust and you were tracking your car a lot and want more of a dual purpose pad that gives more track days without being used up. I'd go with the Stoptech Street Performance for that. They have an incredible heat range. They will dust a lot and may make a bit of noise.

For rotors, I would stick with solid discs for the street unless you are after a certain look. Most high quality replacement should be just fine from OEM to Zimmerman to Meyle, Reybestos, etc, etc.


Fluid is going to be your bang for the buck. If you are bad at keeping up with maintenance and know you wont change your fluid every year to two years, i'd go with a Motul 5.1 at the very least. If you will change it annually, I'd do the RBF660. Dont skimp on fluid.

Mike

[pfft]

Is there a rotor that offers measurable increases in stopping power and fade resistance over stock, that is not part of a BBK system?

Short answer: no. What are your goals? Appearance, or track use? For daily driving and spirited driving the OEM setup is completely fine and actually quite good. BBK's only really maintain consistency in braking performance during repeated high speed stops that is unnoticeable and basically useless on the street. You probably wouldn't even notice a difference between OEM or BBK on the street.

[BlownOne]

Mike covered all the bases with his reply, but for the minimal price difference I always prefer drilled/slotted rotors to add a more sport/race look.

A Stoptech Bbk is night and day difference from stock everytime you press the brake pedal.

Will

[TC_S4]

The OEM pads are good on the first winter, on the second, it start squealing, very annoying on every stops. When temperature is over 0 degree Celsius not squeal. The brake dust is bad, however after the ECU tune the brake dust is just crazy bad. I upgraded to HPS 5.0 with ECS Geomet slotted & cross drilled rotor. Very nice, no need the warm up the brake before getting the good initial bit, it brakes well right from the start. The brake dust had been reduce to about 80% and increases in stopping power by about 20%. As for the rotors, it's coated and look clean all year long, no sign of rust :)

For the rotors it really depend if you do track or just for street. If you do track, it's better to go with slotted or dimples, since it has a better heat resistance range and less tendency to crack. If you don't do track then go with cross drilled + slotted which will do the job and look much better IMO.

[jokingjimmy]

I've been told to consider the Carbotech Street pads. All the rest of the inputs are spot on, just wanted to add that in there.

[s42014DSG]

Thanks everyone!

Dust is no problem for me. Noise is a pain but I can live with it. I'd simply like to better avoid fade and increase stopping power. I'm on the street 100% of the time but I do canyon drive and have experienced severe fade once before unde heavy load that I'd like to avoid in future. A 20% increase in power plus greater longevity, sounds good to me.

Ideally I'd like the best set up short of a BBK, and so any additional suggestions in that vein are most welcome!

[s42014DSG]

Plus I *will* be taking you guys up on the fluid and lines suggestions. Thank you all!

[s42014DSG]

Thanks Mike. What rotor would you recommend for the same purpose as the StopTech (I.e. Some tracking but mostly street)?

When choosing to go with a different pad it may help to try and decide what you are wanting out of a new pad that the stock one is not giving you. New pads come in many different flavors and can give you very different characteristics depending on what you are after.

The OEM pads actually have a pretty great heat range to them. They're pretty aggressive. The stock fluid may not hold up well but there havent been a lot of people that chunk the OEM pads. The OEM pads also offer probably some of the best initial bite that you are going to get going with a street pad. Now some people dont like that much initial bite and like a more progressive mu pad so that may factor into your wants. The other downside is that naturally with an aggressive pad like the OEMs are you can get a bit of noise sometimes and you will get quite a bit of dust.

If you want to reduce dust and noise, you're going to likely compromise braking power a bit. Akebono ceramic would be an example. You may give up a bit of heat range and bite but with a ceramic you will get a huge reduction in brake dust (and the dust that does happen is whitish / greyish), probably no noise, and outstanding longevity. I personally, like having more brake power than low dust so I just put up with the dust. Now, lets say you dont care about the dust and you were tracking your car a lot and want more of a dual purpose pad that gives more track days without being used up. I'd go with the Stoptech Street Performance for that. They have an incredible heat range. They will dust a lot and may make a bit of noise.

For rotors, I would stick with solid discs for the street unless you are after a certain look. Most high quality replacement should be just fine from OEM to Zimmerman to Meyle, Reybestos, etc, etc.


Fluid is going to be your bang for the buck. If you are bad at keeping up with maintenance and know you wont change your fluid every year to two years, i'd go with a Motul 5.1 at the very least. If you will change it annually, I'd do the RBF660. Dont skimp on fluid.

Mike

[administerturbo]

When choosing to go with a different pad it may help to try and decide what you are wanting out of a new pad that the stock one is not giving you. New pads come in many different flavors and can give you very different characteristics depending on what you are after.

The OEM pads actually have a pretty great heat range to them. They're pretty aggressive. The stock fluid may not hold up well but there havent been a lot of people that chunk the OEM pads. The OEM pads also offer probably some of the best initial bite that you are going to get going with a street pad. Now some people dont like that much initial bite and like a more progressive mu pad so that may factor into your wants. The other downside is that naturally with an aggressive pad like the OEMs are you can get a bit of noise sometimes and you will get quite a bit of dust.

If you want to reduce dust and noise, you're going to likely compromise braking power a bit. Akebono ceramic would be an example. You may give up a bit of heat range and bite but with a ceramic you will get a huge reduction in brake dust (and the dust that does happen is whitish / greyish), probably no noise, and outstanding longevity. I personally, like having more brake power than low dust so I just put up with the dust. Now, lets say you dont care about the dust and you were tracking your car a lot and want more of a dual purpose pad that gives more track days without being used up. I'd go with the Stoptech Street Performance for that. They have an incredible heat range. They will dust a lot and may make a bit of noise.

For rotors, I would stick with solid discs for the street unless you are after a certain look. Most high quality replacement should be just fine from OEM to Zimmerman to Meyle, Reybestos, etc, etc.


Fluid is going to be your bang for the buck. If you are bad at keeping up with maintenance and know you wont change your fluid every year to two years, i'd go with a Motul 5.1 at the very least. If you will change it annually, I'd do the RBF660. Dont skimp on fluid.

Mike

Nice post, Mike!

[bhvrdr]

Thanks Mike. What rotor would you recommend for the same purpose as the StopTech (I.e. Some tracking but mostly street)?

Thank you.


For the best OEM performance, i'd recommend a solid one piece rotor. They will give the most thermal mass. 2-piece rotors are great with a properly designed BBK but until someone provides data on the OEM sized 2 piece rotors, the only thing we know is that they reduce thermal mass and they are lighter (good for drag racing but not necessarily braking). I'm not saying they are worse, but with brakes you dont mess around and install something until you know it works better or at lease as well as the OEM size.

I'd skip slots because they increase pad wear by up to 50% or even more (that harder you brake the more it reduces pad life). I'd skip cross drills because they require diligence in checking the rotor for cracks. If you want them for looks, just check on them often. If you do get them, make sure you get ones with the holes that overlap so you wont get ribbing in the wear. Stoptechs are good like this. Ultimately, my recommendation for a great performing OEM rotor would be to get the OEM or just as good get a pair of solid Zimmermans or Meyles available from ECS for a $$$ savings that should give the same performance.

Mike

[boro92]

FWIW Girodisc 2 piece rotors for this platform have virtually identical thermal mass to stoptech 355 2 piece rotors from the bbk.
Their weight is within 0.2 of a pound. With brakes, thermal mass is one part of the equasion. The other part is how quickly it can shed heat. Take a good look at the stock rotors - the vanes only pump in one direction, and they do not spread across the full annulus of the rotor. More reading on that here: http://dreamingin302ci.blogspot.ca/2...ng-brakes.html

As for slotted - yes it is more pad wear, but you get more immediate bite. It also wipes glaze off pads quicker (when they are faded) and work better when wet (esp if one removes the rotor splash shields). No doubt, the blank OEM rotor is superior to most offerings. Though I personally would not rule out the girodiscs--i mention only the girodiscs because other 2 piece rotor options are a big reduction in thermal mass (ie: JHM).

+1 to what Mike has said though - he is spot on. Just wanted to offer some insight on the 2 piece rotor bit.

[bhvrdr]

Thanks for pointing out the girodiscs boro. That's great information to have and sounds like a good oem brake size option

Mike

[XLR8 Craig]

If I can be of any assistance in your journey to find better stopping power, please let me know. We sell and install StopTech products and highly recommend them based of experience and custom feedback. We also offer some of the best pricing around. StopTech slotted sport rotors have produced great results for our B8/.5 customer base. No substitute for a big brake kit, but definitely when paired with the right pad it makes all the difference.

The Girodisc 2 piece rotors are also highly recommended and a great product.

All StopTech products can be seen here - http://vag.excelerateperformance.com...t/g-52574.aspx - Snoop around and let me know if you have any questions.

-Greg