Camshaft tensioner shot; any loss in mpg or power?

[volkswagensRus]

So my CEL is basically pointing me towards a shot camshaft tensioner. The car definitely has a crazy idle when it's cold out and you first cold-start it. The CEL says "excessively retarded camshaft timing". To me, that definitely tells me that power and mpg will be down.

Can anybody confirm my suspicion?

[Turbo_B5]

Wouldn't you also run the risk of having the valves hit pistons? or detonation

[volkswagensRus]

The tensioner isn't so bad that you can hear the chain slapping around, which from what I gather means that it's still sufficiently safe to drive. But I would think w/ excessively retarded timing I'm definitely losing power + mpg. Perhaps more so when its cold out.

[GOODBYNAAIR]

If the pads that the chain runs on are getting chipped apart this can clog your oil pickup tube. giving you low oil pressure leading to many more problems down the road. I would replace that as soon as you can! this job is not that hard lots of DIYs just be sure to get a quality new tensioner OEM if possible. I think I have 3 tensioner tools if you need one just cover the shipping. LMK

[Johns]

I'd swap it out ASAP. I used a Hudson CCT as it appears to be the best aftermarket option (also comes with the tool as most do). I also replaced the chain while in there. Currently has 15k on it and no issues.

I'll also note that I removed the oil screen as well.

[Wrath And Tears]

Guys he only cares about losing mpg or power, not his engine health or how to do a search.

[volkswagensRus]

^I've searched plenty, and people that have been on this website far longer than you say that it's fine to drive as long as the chain isn't clanking.


Anywho to the other worthwhile responses, I just got back from pulling a tensioner from a low mileage 30v 2.8 Passat. The pads look good on it. I'll probably install it this week or next weekend I'm thinking.

[Wrath And Tears]

Actually the people who responded did say it can damage your engine, guess you can't read. Also 5 minutes on google would have told you everything you need to know.

Also I never said you couldn't drive the car or anything of the sort. You sir are very special.

Edit: Sorry that not finding this forums or only owning a B5 for two years makes you think I don't know what I'm talking about. Which sometimes is very true, I don't know everything or pretend to know. I just try to help people who deserve it.

[volkswagensRus]

Alright I feel that maybe you're confused and we're heading down the wrong path here.

1- You're making an asinine assumption that I'm actively driving this car (which I'm not).
2- You're touching a topic that I'm not interested in (Topic: Will this damage my car?), which I'm not (I've searched google for an hour finding threads dating back 10+ years asking for the potential of damage; the general consensus is NO unless the chain is slapping around).
3- You haven't answered either of my questions (will this tensioner issue hurt my mpg or power).

[Wrath And Tears]

Alright I feel that maybe you're confused and we're heading down the wrong path here.

1- You're making an asinine assumption that I'm actively driving this car (which I'm not).
2- You're touching a topic that I'm not interested in (Topic: Will this damage my car?), which I'm not (I've searched google for an hour finding threads dating back 10+ years asking for the potential of damage; the general consensus is NO unless the chain is slapping around).
3- You haven't answered either of my questions (will this tensioner issue hurt my mpg or power).

Literally the first thing I said which you responded to like an ass was "Hey guys he only cares about losing MPG or power, not his engine health or how to search." When I said that no one had yet answered your question about mpg or power, and no one has still. Everyone just talked about how it is bad (or potentially bad) for your engine. Never once did I say you should stop driving because it will damage your car.

So to answer #1 No, I made absolutely no assumption. You are the only one assuming things.

Number 2: True I am not being helpful but everyone else posting in the thread talked about engine damage so neither were they. That being said I still found the answers to your questions within 5 minutes of googling I just decided not to share them because I am an ass.

So really you are the confused one here, get it? I was just being an ass, but you were making assumptions.

All you had to do to avoid this was follow the advice other members of the forums gave you when you first started posting here.

Make one thread, title it VolkswagonsRus' Short Question thread. Post all your questions there. You claimed you were making individual threads to help people search for the same questions, yet with how the search function works even if it was all in one thread it would still show up.

Clearly you are a smart guy who has done a lot of work modifying all the different cars you own / have owned, now just apply that to using google.

Edit: To answer your question yes it is possible for the CCT to affect your power. If it can't adjust properly this can lead to valves opening and closing just slightly too soon or early. Its extremely possible that its so minute you can't even notice the power loss. If you have power loss then your MPG will decrease. Since you brag about getting 28 mpg with your asshole city driving then I'm sure the car is fine for now.

[volkswagensRus]

While I may be getting 28mpg as it sits, the inner geeky engineer in me is dying to know if this 'excessive camshaft retard' cel is still causing additional MPG loss. On cold startups I definitely notice the car phasing really hard, almost as though it's 'camming', but it goes away after a little while.

[Wrath And Tears]

Do you have the electronically controlled cam chain tensioner (for variable valve timing)? I think with an 01 you should. During start up is the only time the VVT (as controlled by the electronic part of the CCT) is used, specifically to control emissions during cold start ups. I believe it trys to fully retard the timing. If there is an issue with the CCT, it will commonly set a code for VVT setpoint not reached or whatever, P0012? not sure if it's the right P code but its stuck in my head for some reason. I'll google it after posting.

Edit: P0012 is a code for the CCT, cool.

[volkswagensRus]

Yes I have the tensioner with the sensor in it. I know that the main purpose of the tensioner is to decrease warmup time on a cold motor and to reduce emissions, but thats all I know about it. I know that both cams are chained together by it too. So that would lead me to think that if they are running constantly 'excessively' retarded, that the car wouldn't run right... but you are saying that my statement is untrue and this function is ONLY in use during startup?

[Wrath And Tears]

You are probably correct that during normal operation with a bad tensioner the cams would be running excessively retarded. That is what can lead to issues later on. From my experience, even with the cams being extremely extremely retarded (same symptom as low oil pressure), the engine will still run okay, it's just not burning as clean. Example: Customer with a 05 CX-7, that is burning oil internally, came in with a check engine light. The light was set due to camshafts being over retarded. The car ran perfectly fine, even though it was down 5Qts of oil (out of 6). The car sounded much better and probably ran smoother (but I didn't really notice) once I put oil in it and it could properly adjust the camshafts.

I should have explained myself better, but the roughness you feel during your cold starts is the electronic portion trying to make the cams even more retarded. Or if the VVT tries to advance position at cold start (pretty sure it retards it) then the rough run could be due to it failing to advance.

[volkswagensRus]

Interesting! I've actually been down on oil, too! I was beginning to think I might have to venture down other avenues to troubleshoot that but I wonder if its related. Also, the exhaust is definitely stinkier at times too than I'd expect (even though I am catless).

[Wrath And Tears]

Do you know what your oil pressure is? It's possible that the main issue is the CCT, but there could be underlying issues that caused it to fail. Engine sludge (or other debris) clogging the oil pickup screen causing low oil pressure can lead to the CCT failing, or even like in my example setting the code in the first place. Also like Johns has show, its possible for debris to clog the screen for the CCT itself causing the same issues.

I'm pretty sure that the cams being over-retarded can cause the car to burn oil, not entirely sure how though so I could be wrong. When it comes to issues like this sometimes the cause of the issue and the effect of the issue can be hard differentiate. I am not sure if it's the CCT causing you to be low on oil, or a different issue causing the low oil that then also took out the CCT (just something to be aware of).

[volkswagensRus]

I do not know what my oil pressure is, no. But I've never once had the low pressure alarm come on. The engine doesn't appear to have any sludge (thought I will be running an oil treatment before the next oil change). I will be changing the cam tensioner in the next week I hope, so I'll let you know if it clears the code and if my oil consumption goes down. Thank you for the input thus far.