Looking for suspension advice on springs / shocks / struts

[Durk]

Hello,
Let me preface this by saying I have searched and searched and searched on these topics. Looking for some fresh insight. A thread from 2009 doesn't have recent options.
Also I'm not doing coilovers. Not an option. My only suspension mod is the 034 Rear sway bar. Going to get a beefed up front sway bar when I do my front.

My S4 has 94K on the completely original suspension. It's toast. The back sags, front control arms creak, every bump is jarring.
I have a set of used lower mileage RS4 springs (which are the same I understand) that I could swap in. I also purchased the rear refresh kit from ECS as I want to tackle the rear of the car first since it is in worse shape.

Option 1: Use the better condition springs and pair with shocks struts.
Option 2: Go with Vogtlands (decided after much research) and pair with shocks and struts and sell the RS4 springs.

I really wish someone made a stock ride height performance spring. I've searched high and low and cannot find anyone that does. Is this because the stock S4 springs are good enough no one bothered to improve?
I live in PA and the roads are shitty. I'm not a lowered car kind of guy.

I used KYB shocks/struts in my GTO and was happy with them. But the info on the forum is KYB sucks for these cars or people have had bad experiences. I take that with a grain of salt. A shitty car is a shitty car regardless of the shocks you use.

What do you guys suggest as far as a good DD setup for shocks and struts? I want this to be one and done and address the whole suspension and move on to other areas. I also realize you get what you pay for but I don't want to drop major doll hairs on a daily driver.

Mucho thanks in advance

[audi49]

I replaced my shocks and control arms at 70k miles and now i have 85k.
I went with Koni Yellow's with stock springs. Tuned the shocks at 3/4 turn from full soft. If i had to do it over again (and i still may) I'd tune them to 1 to 1 1/4 turns from soft. They're very comfortable but slightly too much float for what i'd ideally like. I only use the car on the street and so I looked for a good combo of comfort and handling. (Both improved relative to stock).
I replaced all the front control arms (and tie rods) with Meyle HD's. So far, after 15k miles, no cracking nor issues.
Good luck.

[Durk]

Thanks for the reply.

[badger.]

I asked a similar question a few months ago as well. Although mine kinda got derailed into some coilover discussion, I am now in the same boat as you wanting just a DD setup/refresh, not coilovers. Maybe some info in here that helps, maybe not, lol

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...efresh-Options

[jr1415us]

Here's a pretty thorough discussion of Koni and Bilstein dampers paired with stock springs:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ght=koni+sport

[JayDog747]

Unless you're hauling ass, and by that I mean three fat chicks in the back, you shouldn't need to replace the springs. It is more than likely the pads that the rear springs sit between are shot. Especially the lower one. And while you're back there, you should replace the rear upper control arm bushings. They wear out the same as the upper front. It's cheaper to just have them pressed in than to replace 'em.

As for the front control arms, IMO, I rank them as Lemfoerder, Meyle HD, 034 and the rest. I have used all three and if you can swing it go with Lemfoerder, otherwise the Meyle.

There are really only two options for shocks. Bilstien sport are more comfortable than stock and work well at above highway speeds. And Koni, which you can adjust to your liking. You can't go wrong with either one and they are roughly the same price. I highly recommend 034's upper strut mount bushing. It's a nice chunk of rubber and really makes the shock perform at its best.

Just a reminder, if you replace the front sway bar with a larger one, you will bring back understeer that the larger rear bar took away. Just replace the sway bar bushing mounts.

If you can you should replace both the front and rear at the same time that way you only have to pay for an alignment once. Oh, and good luck with the pinch bolt.

[JimmyBones]

JayDog747 said everything that I was going to except that I would also replace the rear tie arms too. They are cheap and easy to replace. I am a Bilstein fan so I would go with Bilstein shocks instead of Konis.

You can also use FCP control arms and there is a group buy in the specials section on this site.

[kevinye77137]

If you want a comfortable daily driving car and on a budget, I would get the bilstein touring class. I live in the city so I need maximum comfort through potholes and cracks on the roads. http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/a...+absorber,7556. Rock auto has the front and rear set for around $220. I installed the rear shocks already and they are great! If you want better steering and less body roll, get the 034 rear sway bar. https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...oAsaAn-g8P8HAQ. 4 shocks with 034 rear sway bar is still cheaper than koni yellows.

[JayDog747]

If you want a comfortable daily driving car and on a budget, I would get the bilstein touring class. I live in the city so I need maximum comfort through potholes and cracks on the roads. http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/a...+absorber,7556. Rock auto has the front and rear set for around $220. I installed the rear shocks already and they are great! If you want better steering and less body roll, get the 034 rear sway bar. https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...oAsaAn-g8P8HAQ. 4 shocks with 034 rear sway bar is still cheaper than koni yellows.

The S4 uses progressive rate springs. Bilstein touring class is not designed to work that type of spring. They are going to wear out more quickly. Also if you reread his post, he already has 034's sway bar.

[Durk]

Lot's of great info. Thanks for the responses.
As far as the sag, it is probably blown out pads. It is so bad though I took the spare tire out. With the springs coming out to replace the upper and lower pads, I might as well through in the other springs with less mileage.
Based on this info and some research I'm thinking of:
Bilstein sports
Lower mileage oem sport springs
Density line strut mount
FCP Control arm kit if the group buy is still happening
Rear upper control arm bushings
Rear tie rod ends

Thanks again for the helpful advice, I feel comfortable and confident pulling the trigger on grand worth of parts.
As far as the front, I have a buddy that is a Toyota tech. Hoping to get in on a Saturday and him lend me a hand with big boy tools.

[2004B6S4]

Audi uses different colors and #'s of paint stripes to differentiate between different types of springs. You might want to double check the paint markings on the lower mileage springs to be sure they are the same

[Okedokey]

I have the sport suspension as stock, so looking at these Eibach Bilstein B12 Fahrwerk Sportline.

Anyone got any views?

[badger.]

Okay I am confused.

What is the difference in this:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...-rs4-be5b981h0

and this:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...4-s4-19-164472


They both say for 2005 S4. One is "Bilstein Sport 8E0413031CP" and one is "Bilstein 8E0413031CP".

The (part?) number is the same but one is described as "sport" and the other one isn't? Wouldn't that change the number 8E0...?? They are $70 price difference!!

[Durk]

I have the sport suspension as stock, so looking at these Eibach Bilstein B12 Fahrwerk Sportline.

Anyone got any views?

This is classic example thread jacking sir.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay I am confused.

What is the difference in this:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...-rs4-be5b981h0

and this:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...4-s4-19-164472


They both say for 2005 S4. One is "Bilstein Sport 8E0413031CP" and one is "Bilstein 8E0413031CP".

The (part?) number is the same but one is described as "sport" and the other one isn't? Wouldn't that change the number 8E0...?? They are $70 price difference!!

It looks like they messed up and duplicated the part #. The blacks are the touring and are cheaper.

[hkdolphins]

Okay I am confused.

What is the difference in this:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...-rs4-be5b981h0

and this:
https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...4-s4-19-164472


They both say for 2005 S4. One is "Bilstein Sport 8E0413031CP" and one is "Bilstein 8E0413031CP".

The (part?) number is the same but one is described as "sport" and the other one isn't? Wouldn't that change the number 8E0...?? They are $70 price difference!!

I think(FROM desc) the Yellow one is for Avant and Black one is Sedan(it show does not fit my avant). Also it made from different countries

[Durk]

Audi uses different colors and #'s of paint stripes to differentiate between different types of springs. You might want to double check the paint markings on the lower mileage springs to be sure they are the same

One step ahead of you but mucho gracis :-)

[Durk]

Here is a question:
Why are the tie rod end links beefier for the A4?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REAR-TIE-ROD...23AiCA&vxp=mtr

S4:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-04-AUDI...9TPEgJ&vxp=mtr

The S4 are stamped and have holes. The A4 have the thicker side and no holes. It looks like the are the same part. Use the A4 link?

[badger.]

It looks like they messed up and duplicated the part #. The blacks are the touring and are cheaper.

Did some digging, on Bilstein's website:
>>The black ones (cheaper) P/N 19-164472 are Series B4, described as OE Replacement (original equipment).
Bilstein B4 OE Replacement Series gas pressure shocks and struts are specifically engineered to be the best choice for maintaining the original ride quality of your vehicle, while meeting or exceeding OE standards. These dampers are the ideal choice for the driver looking to restore the original performance and handling of their vehicle, with the added benefit of world-famous Bilstein quality.

>>The yellow ones ($$$) P/N 24-119818 are Series B8, described as the Sport version.
Bilstein B8 Sport monotube shocks and struts deliver absolute mastery of the road surface for the performance-minded driver. Designed to push a car's suspension to its performance peak, these shocks are specifically suited for use with special lowering springs in combination with anti-sway bars or other suspension upgrades. (yellow paint, steel body)


From that, it seems the black B4s are basically an OEM-equivalent, while the yellow B8s are an 'upgrade' and better suited if you want to do any other suspension mods.

The S4 uses progressive rate springs. Bilstein touring class is not designed to work that type of spring. They are going to wear out more quickly.

JayDog, can you expand/source your comment on the "touring class"? From what I read it seems that the black ones are OK, they pull up as matching fit for a B6 S4 Sedan. I didn't see any mention of "Touring" with them. Are they truly an ineffective option for a B6, even when all other suspension components are stock or equivalent? Because I've seen nothing other than your comment to indicate they are in fact improper. Just curious.

[Durk]

I'm coming up with part #'s for the rear tie rod ends.
8E0501529G, K, and P. It looks like the beefier rods were early and then revised to the weaker stamped ones. Not sure if it makes a difference at all, but I might as well throw the beefier part on it.
I'm going to get this stuff in advance and a set of LCA's off ebay and get the bushings pressed into. That way when I do this job I have the new ones already to be swapped in.

[JayDog747]

JayDog, can you expand/source your comment on the "touring class"? From what I read it seems that the black ones are OK, they pull up as matching fit for a B6 S4 Sedan. I didn't see any mention of "Touring" with them. Are they truly an ineffective option for a B6, even when all other suspension components are stock or equivalent? Because I've seen nothing other than your comment to indicate they are in fact improper. Just curious.

http://www.bilsteinus.com/uploads/tx...uide308_10.pdf

Page 2. The guide does state you can use the B4 but the B8 version more closely matches the spring rate of the S4. On the Koni website's FAQ it stated having a higher spring rate matched with a softer shock will wear out the shock quicker.

[badger.]

JayDog, can you expand/source your comment on the "touring class"? From what I read it seems that the black ones are OK, they pull up as matching fit for a B6 S4 Sedan. I didn't see any mention of "Touring" with them. Are they truly an ineffective option for a B6, even when all other suspension components are stock or equivalent? Because I've seen nothing other than your comment to indicate they are in fact improper. Just curious.

http://www.bilsteinus.com/uploads/tx...uide308_10.pdf

Page 2. The guide does state you can use the B4 but the B8 version more closely matches the spring rate of the S4. On the Koni website's FAQ it stated having a higher spring rate matched with a softer shock will wear out the shock quicker.

Awesome, thanks for the follow-up! Much appreciated.

[badger.]

Couple questions for anyone who might know re: suspension parts.

1. Do I/should I need to replace the Front spring perch? Do new struts come with that or would I need to re-use the old ones? (P/N 8E0412066B)
2. Do I/should I replace the rear Upper and Lower spring perches? Do these go bad? (top: P/N 8E0512149P and lower: P/N 8E0512297J)

[JayDog747]

Front: The Bilsteins will come with a new perch but not the rubber piece the springs sit on. As for the rear pads, the lower one takes most of the abuse. So you're more than likely replacing that one. The upper one is more... eh... it's up to you. I replaced both. Keep in mind that it will raise the rear end slightly until it settles.

[Silver Streakin]

Couple questions for anyone who might know re: suspension parts.

1. Do I/should I need to replace the Front spring perch? Do new struts come with that or would I need to re-use the old ones? (P/N 8E0412066B)
2. Do I/should I replace the rear Upper and Lower spring perches? Do these go bad? (top: P/N 8E0512149P and lower: P/N 8E0512297J)

FWIW, the front B5 S4 spring perch is bolt in and will lower the front slightly. I forget the exact number...somewhere around 1/2" to 5/8" lower than stock.

[Durk]

So I did the rear swap two weeks ago. When I finally sat the car down, there was even a three finger fender gap b/w the front and the back. I was happy. The bottoms were pretty much toast, I did the tops since I had them but like it was mentioned above they could have went back in.
After driving it, I could tell I was starting to go back to a negative rake. I checked today and I guess it wore the pads in because it's back to three finger front 2 finger rear (no jokes).
Totally disappointed to be back at square one.
I can't stand driving this car with the negative rake. It feels odd driving and isn't handling as well I as I feel it should. I did this same surgery on my GTO after I got it because it had the classic saggy GTO rear, and it made the car so much better to drive. I was hoping for a similar result.

I read before that the B5 perch mod doesn't work with billies. Do you think I could still do it and just enlarge the hole in the perches to match the diameter? I've never seen either part in person.


[/URL]

[Durk]

I looked up the perch I see how it doesn't fit. I have things to think about.