Proper engine break in procedure?

[FromS60toB61.8t]

So i've read multiple things. Baby it till like 1k, romp on it for the first 200 miles, etc.

the most consistent i've seen is:

Fill with 5-40 non detergent oil or rotella t6.
start engine and run it for 30 mins.
drain oil and swap filters.
refill oil along with lucas engine break in (more nickle) and go out on the road.
within the first 200 miles do 2nd-4th gear pulls from roughly half rpm to just before redline at WOT and then let it decel in gear.
replace oil again after about 200 miles.

Let me know what most of you with rebuilds have done.

ALSO what worries me is that im running a brand new turbo and RA4 clutch with single mass flywheel. I know for a fact that clutch break in requires light driving. Dont want to tear up my clutch and flywheel trying to do WOT runs in a non tuned big turbo you know?

current setup:
GTX2867R
IE Rods 19MM pins
034 fuel rail
1000cc bosch injectors
AEB head + mani
3" billet MAF
Garrett 600HP core
TiAL QV BOV with recirc to intake
Currently on a stage 1+ tune
Deatsch werks DW65V fuel pump will be installed once i use up some fuel (made a custom bracket to house it)
proper tune to come after motor is broken in

[diagnosticator]

Nothing very special is needed. Just drive the car as you normally do. The main aspect that is a little different, is avoiding extended high RPMs, and while driving, vary the engine load and speed instead of driving at a constant speed. I have always used whatever engine oil I expect to use long term. Nothing special is required in the oil. The factory advise for new engine break-in is the best guide.

[redline380]

non-detergent oil for the first 500 miles, change oil and filter to synthetic after that. Try to pull lots of vacuum and vary the RPM's.

If you are worried about breaking the clutch in properly, just turn the boost all the way down. And considering you are on a chipped tune, you will absolutely not want to run very much boost at all. Couple psi max until you get a proper tune and injectors installed.

Actually, I would put a tune on it before you even drive it.

That first oil change is indeed very important because you will have metal on metal wear. If you do not change it, lots of flakes will be floating around in the oil and getting in places where they shouldnt be

[FromS60toB61.8t]

i will take that advice haha.

from everything ive read, rotella is actually better than most oils because it has more nickle in it i think which helps the rings.

basically from what ive gathered, the WOT runs help seat the rings properly.

non-detergent oil for the first 500 miles, change oil and filter to synthetic after that. Try to pull lots of vacuum and vary the RPM's.

If you are worried about breaking the clutch in properly, just turn the boost all the way down. And considering you are on a chipped tune, you will absolutely not want to run very much boost at all. Couple psi max until you get a proper tune and injectors installed.

Actually, I would put a tune on it before you even drive it.

That first oil change is indeed very important because you will have metal on metal wear. If you do not change it, lots of flakes will be floating around in the oil and getting in places where they shouldnt be

yea, thats what i figured on most points.

as for the tune, i think i have to run logs with the new fuel pump and 3" MAF so the tuner can properly tune it.

the test run will also let me know if i have the right spring in my DV, i got a 11 psi one (-19 to -22 HG) so hopefully that will be all i need.

[customa4]

I would think you'd want a proper tune for the car before you break it in, at least a base tune. Running a Stage 1+ tune with that hardware doesn't seem like it would go over well.

Redline beat me to it...

[FromS60toB61.8t]

I would think you'd want a proper tune for the car before you break it in, at least a base tune. Running a Stage 1+ tune with that hardware doesn't seem like it would go over well.

Redline beat me to it...

only thing with that is the new fuel pump isnt in yet, i need to get it under 1/4 tank before i do that.

you think a base tune would work even before the pump is in? the fuel pump just adds higher flow under load right?

[vwdann0]

Nothing very special is needed. Just drive the car as you normally do. The main aspect that is a little different, is avoiding extended high RPMs, and while driving, vary the engine load and speed instead of driving at a constant speed. I have always used whatever engine oil I expect to use long term. Nothing special is required in the oil. The factory advise for new engine break-in is the best guide.

This^^

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Fired up tonight, didn't go so well.

Fuel rail is leaking on both ends along with injector #1.

Oil leaking from driver side between head and block (between cyl 1-2)
also leaking from the front side between the oil pan and block.

smoking from turbo, couldnt leave it running long enough to see if its just breaking in and burning off residue or being starved of coolant. Oil is fine because there is oil leaking from the oil return line to oil pan.

might have to end up pulling the motor again.

[diagnosticator]

non-detergent oil for the first 500 miles, change oil and filter to synthetic after that. Try to pull lots of vacuum and vary the RPM's.

That first oil change is indeed very important because you will have metal on metal wear. If you do not change it, lots of flakes will be floating around in the oil and getting in places where they shouldnt be

Why do you recommend using non conforming to factory specification, non detergent lube oil for break-in? I don't understand why using the factory spec oil is only important after 500 miles. Seems to me that the properties of the specified lube oil is just as important at first start up as it is after the first oil change, compared to a non spec cheap mineral oil.
I am sure the factory oil fill is not non detergent mineral oil.
If the engine was assembled properly, there will be no more metallic particles suspended in the oil than in a factory new engine, and the OCI is not reduced for new engines.

Using the specified oil, and following the official Audi Factory new car engine break-in instructions will provide the correct break-in process for the effected engine parts. Although factory new engines are test run before leaving the engine plant, the short time of the test does not reduce the normal break-in miles required.

[Seerlah]

If you search, you will see a good 90% of us go by the same procedure. It's a debate, so you need to choose for yourself. It is zinc you want for initial break in. I personally use break in oil.

What I did:
-Break in oil with mobil one filter. Let oil get to operating temp. During this time, check for leaks and address them.
-Drain oil and change filter.
-Block still warm, let oil get back to operating temps. Then go for a 20 minute drive. Lots of mixed driving with lots of engine vacuum breaking. Decent boost to have the rings seat against the walls.
-Drain oil, change filter, and drive as usual for a decent mileage (I did maybe 2-3k with another oci of Brad Penn break in oil in between).
-During this time, engine is still breaking in. All break in done with break in motor oil (ie Brad Penn, Amsoil, etc. some do stuff like sae 30 non detergent and add their own zinc addative).
-Afterwards, switch to oem filter with synthetic oil (currently running mobil 1 euro)

It is a debatable subject. You need to decide for yourself.

[juxsa]

What I have done in the past:
Plain Rotella and filter
let motor warm up then drive the piss out of it for 15-30 minutes (using a conservative tune)
drain oil/change filter
fill with Rotella T6 and you're good

[FromS60toB61.8t]

ended up going with some shell non detergent SAE30 and some MANN filters. Also added Lucas engine break-in oil.

now i need to address the leaks. Two of which i have no idea how they are leaking because the head was torqued down to spec with ARP studs using a brand new OEM headgasket. The second is the turbo return line which has a gasket and is also torqued down properly.

Does anyone know what washers go into the 034 fuel rail? I used the copper crush washers that are used for our oil drain plugs. Seemed to fit perfectly but it does still leak on both ends, so i will have to use a different one.

[redline380]

Why do you recommend using non conforming to factory specification, non detergent lube oil for break-in?

Because there is no reason to waste synthetic oil on a 500 mile change interval.

Their WILL be metal flakes in the oil after the first change. The rings need to break into the hone.

Do we really need to talk about piston ring break in procedures with Audis? The B8 comes to mind....

[Seerlah]

Crucial part of engine break in is ring break in. Synthetic is not good for this. Break in oil has proper addatives for this (zinc). Lucas break in oil is not an addative. It is supposed to be used fully, but mixing wont hurt. I used Brad Penn for all steps listed above with mobil 1 filters. Brad Penn is also engineered to remove assembly lube off bearings once in contact. It is reasons like this break in oil is suggested. But if my car wasn't a tuner car I doubt I would have done it the way I did.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Crucial part of engine break in is ring break in. Synthetic is not good for this. Break in oil has proper addatives for this (zinc). Lucas break in oil is not an addative. It is supposed to be used fully, but mixing wont hurt. I used Brad Penn for all steps listed above with mobil 1 filters. Brad Penn is also engineered to remove assembly lube off bearings once in contact. It is reasons like this break in oil is suggested. But if my car wasn't a tuner car I doubt I would have done it the way I did.

says right on the lucal break-in oil bottle to add 1 bottle to oil...

did a quick google search and see what youre talking about. i used shell sae30 non detergent and lucas break in oil additive, not lucas break in oil.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

on to bigger problems now...

car ran nice and smooth for about 10 mins, turbo and manifold stopped smoking after burning off debis.
there was slight clicking in the head which i assumed was everything settling into place but now think was due to oil starvation.

car shut off, no noise upon shut-off, now no compression. Didn't check which cylinders yet but my money is the head.

there were no signs of mis-timing so i dont think its valves. I have also done timing successfully on this engine 3 times before, so i'm pretty confident in that.

really hoping its not the piston rings or headgasket but everything looked dry when i took out the spark plugs.

[redline380]

Bent valves. Happened to me last spring. Cam gear bolt gave out and spun the gear 270 degrees before it locked up again.

[PreciseD]

If you search, you will see a good 90% of us go by the same procedure. It's a debate, so yiu need to chooze for yourself. It is zinc you want for initial break in. I personally use break in oil.

What I did:
-Break in oil with mobil one filter. Let oil get to operating temp. During this time, check for leaks and address them.
-Drain oil and change filter.
-Block still warm, let oil get back to operating temps. Then go for a 20 minute drive. Lots of mixed driving with lots of engine vacuum breaking. Decent boost to have the rings seat against the walls.
-Drain oil, change filter, and drive as usual for a decent mileage (I did maybe 3k).
-During this time, engine is still breaking in. All break in done with break in motor oil (ie Brad Penn, Amsoil, etc. some do stuff like sae 30 non detergent and add their own zinc addative).
-Afterwards, switch to oem filter with synthetic oil (currently running mobil 1 euro)

It is a debatable subject. You need to decide for yourself.

Probably the best information on here.

I would add that if you are breaking in cams you need to run the engine at 2k rpm for 15 minutes then change the oil.

I did add a few extra filter changes in mine just to make sure everything was on the up and up.

warm up + cam break in = Oil/Filter change
20 minute drive = Oil/Filter change
100 miles = Oil/Filter change
250 miles = Oil/Filter change
500 miles = Oil/Filter change (trans broke here so haven't done the 1000 mile one yet)
1000 miles = Oil/Filter change

I used the cheapest oil I could find and NO additives as they are a waste of money.

[Seerlah]

Check your timing. Bent valves this early in is not that big of a deal. Just lap in replacement valves. May be a good time to place in exhaust ones if you didn't. DIY one day project (weekend, taking your time). Surfaces should only require new head gasket. This is of course, assuming you bent valves.

[themadscientist]

What I have done in the past:
Plain Rotella and filter
let motor warm up then drive the piss out of it for 15-30 minutes (using a conservative tune)
drain oil/change filter
fill with Rotella T6 and you're good

This. Higher cylinder pressures will seat the rings better. I've rebuilt/built a lot (over 100) of engines, every single one of them gets ran hard as soon as it's up to temp.

[Furly]

I hear both.
The process seerlah stated, which is also the process listed on integrated engineering Website.

And I've heard people say they warm up the oil and go hard.

The first way seems more legit to me. I don't know how I feel about beating the piss out of a motor I just spent tens of thousands of dollars on building.

[crazyquik22023]

I agree 100% with what Seerlah said about break in procedure driving habits, and I also strongly recommend Brad Penn break in oil for the oil you use. Has very high zinc content and has always proven good results for breaking in freshly rebuilt engines. Personally used it before with the driving habits Seerlah said and was very pleased.

[customa4]

Lots of posts in here but not many regarding OP running a stage 1+ tune with the hardware currently installed. Anyone else have some more insight on the topic?

[redline380]

Lots of posts in here but not many regarding OP running a stage 1+ tune with the hardware currently installed. Anyone else have some more insight on the topic?

yeah like I mentioned it's a terrible idea. OP should acknowledge that and not do it.




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[Seerlah]

Lots of posts in here but not many regarding OP running a stage 1+ tune with the hardware currently installed. Anyone else have some more insight on the topic?

Yeah. He is going to f*ck up his engine. Since he has forged rods, it will take a beating and still tick. If they were stock rods, they would snap. The heat to the dome of the piston is another story. They most def can liquify and deform. Another reason forged pistons is money well spent. That turbo will draw in too much air without enough fuel to compensate. This results in an incredibly lean condition. But that is assuming he has enough fuel to spool that turbo. Basically, tune should match what it is tuning.

And I did beat the piss out of my car. But...with mixed driving also. First engine was broken in on 15psi on a gt2871r. Blew it racing a 335i (totally my fault from bouncing off the rev limiter too much and I spun a bearing). Second and current one 20+psi on a 530hp turbo. But you aren't going wot the whole 20 minute initial run. It is mixed with lots of engine vacuum breaking. Going wot is what breaks in the rings. The higher combustion pressures is what is necessary to push the piston rings on the cylinder walls for proper break in. You want to do this before the walls glaze, and why it is recommended to go all out initially.

As far as clutch goes, my disc is ceramic and does not need the break in as other materials do. This is what permitted me to go all out with no brand new clutch issues. Still running the same clutch today.

[demonmk2]

Very informative thread, I'll be doing this in the next couple of months.
Seerlah is spot on OP...with those mods and that tune...you're chancing it big time ( burnt valves ) you should at least get a base tune for what you have frtom your tuner to be safe.

Also, what are your power goals with this setup once it's broken in of course.

[Seerlah]

This far into the build, def wait for a tune you can break the engine properly on. Impatience may cost you lots of money, headache, and frustration.

What tuning (company) you plan on using?

As for clutch, that is a tricky situation. Do you know what the disc material is? Research it (look outside the Audi fanboy bubble) and see what others have done successfully when in the same boat as you. You aren't the first and won't be the last who was in this situation. People document this stuff, making the interwebz chock full of information.

[old guy]

Breaking in the clutch should not present any problems as long as you don't engage it aggressively. Just be gentle with the engagement and then once it's fully engaged you can do whatever you want to break in the engine.

Excessive heat is what will damage the new clutch. Heat occurs whenever there is friction as in starting off or hard shifting. Once the clutch disc is fully clamped you can go WOT all you want. When the disc is clamped there is no friction to cause any heat build up.

[Seerlah]

Wanted to add that if you used new hardware on your belt assembly (relating to possible timing issue) you need to use loctite. New hardware will back out. Old hardware not so much, due to having the slightest rust on them. This is not counting cam and crank bolts that should go without saying.

Learned this lesson almost the hard way. Never had a problem not loctiting my old hardware prior, and I tinker with my car a lot. When new hardware was placed on, so close to f*cking something up due to no loctite. Pulled front end off so glad I caught it in time (felt slight unfamiliar front end vibration). Would have been a bad situation.

[FromS60toB61.8t]

Read everything you guys said. Thanks for all of the input.

Im currently running the RA4 single mass flywheel kit from ECS. Im on the border line of the torque it can hold so i will try it. Spoke with some ECS reps and they said that it should easily contain my 400 AWHP goal, or they will get me the next stage up fore the difference cost. If it starts slipping, i will look into others. I have done clutch 4 times on this car now and dont have problems doing it again. I had a southbend SS stage 5 before and absolutely hated it. Wore out prematurely at 10k miles. pressure plate completely cracked.

Worked on it all today, turns out my suspicion was correct, the head was oil starved. Took it all apart to notice the head gasket was up side down . Took off all of the cam caps and only 1 was damaged, the front one that holds both cams. Luckily i had a spare one from my other head. The camshafts weren't damaged at all, thank jeebus. Got a new headgasket and everything is all bolted back on and turning nicely. No valves were bent, timing was set spot on. (havent started it yet)

Just need to get the radiator and intercooler back on tomorrow and its good to go.

As for the tune... I was under the impression that for the initial 20-30 min start up/idle, it shouldnt make much difference. Someone please correct me if Im wrong. Im currently using Dave (motoza) for my tuning, had stage 1+ on the 1.8 and stage 1 on my allroad 2.7 with him and he did a great job. The down side is that he likes to take forever to respond sometimes. If im not happy with what he does tune wise, I will take the car with a base tune down to UnitedMotorsports for a tune since they're roughly an hour away from me. For the actual driving part i will for sure get a base tune for the hardware.

[Seerlah]

As many cars as that guy has tuned, tell him to send you a safe base file to break your motor in with.

[customa4]

As many cars as that guy has tuned, tell him to send you a safe base file to break your motor in with.

I agree. He probably already has a base file that would work with your car. Good to hear nothing serious was damaged. Good luck!

[demonmk2]

I give big props to the unitedmotorsport guys..

[FromS60toB61.8t]

As many cars as that guy has tuned, tell him to send you a safe base file to break your motor in with.

Yea, i messaged him Wednesday night about a base tune, havent heard back yet.

A year ago, when i started the build, i purchased his big turbo tune upgrade so im just waiting on the base from him now. The build kept evolving so i didnt give him the laundry list of hardware until last wed.