2016 3.0TFSI on A6 similar to 2016 S4? ....

[bhvrdr]

Hi all,

I picked up a 2016 A6 with the 3.0TFSI that is now rated at the same 333hp as the S4 engine. I noticed some interesting differences so far though...


Take a look at the pulley. Looks much easier to remove/replace. Does anyone with the 2016 S4 have the same type of pulley?



Close up...





I also noticed the connectors for the MAP sensors are 3 prong instead of 4 prong like the earlier engines. This should also be the case for the 2015 versus 2016 S4. When I asked someone about that the person told me Audi is now using a high frequency base for the sensors and the old were a low frequency base.


Another thing I noticed is that it seems the snout is more modular now. Maybe not since I never really looked into it too much on the S4 but it seems like now the snout can come off which means the possibility of snout coolers could be easier to do. Again, not sure but just a thought.


Thanks Dippy for leading me to look up differences on this engine now called the CREC engine. If you look at the sides of the supercharger you see another set of injectors - port injectors. So this engine has 12 fuel injectors, presumably to reduce carbon buildup?


According to Arin at APR the engine also has sleeved cylinders. Not confirmed. Also the engine management is now the Simos 16 as opposed to Simos 8.

More to come. Just thought I'd share.

Mike

[mmm def]

Nothing useful to add but the 16 A6 is a gorgeous car!

[bhvrdr]

hehe, thanks man. I agree. Its a really nice ride. I was thinking about a used 4.0TFSI A8 but I couldnt pass up this deal and I wasnt sure if I am ready for that big of a car yet. This A6 has the sport and black optics and that really makes it look sporty too.

Mike

[torinalth]

if i recall correctly the new gen engines have a clutch system for their pulley now to completely stop the SC when in cruise mode. Overall the engine is the same, but there are some differences, like the clutched pulley but I don't know them all.

[14S4GWM]

I really like the new 6 too. I have one I see every morning going into work and I stare at it the whole time. More pics please.

[jsh139]

Nothing to add here but wow, congrats!

[Tanner]

yes congrats... great car. Was really impressed with the handling of the A6 when I got a chance to drive it a few years ago at a driving experience event here in Toronto, especially the speed through the slalom given the size of the car.

[doug97gxe]

so what happened to the S4?

[VenturiRS]

Nice Pick up! Subscribed to learn more.

[Dippy]

The CREC version of that engine has been in the S4 and S5 since mid-2014 in Europe. It meets the EU6 emissions regulations. As well as the supercharger and sensor changes there are many others including the timing chains and fuel, where there is now a second set of injectors. Obviously the fact that the supercharger pulley is bolt-on instead of press-on means that aftermarket pulleys for the earlier engine won't fit. However perhaps more importantly is the fact that this engine uses the newer SIMOS 16 ECU. So far in Europe only the 'piggy-back' method tuning companies are supporting the CREC engine - no-one else has yet claimed to have hacked the ECU.

[bhvrdr]

The CREC version of that engine has been in the S4 and S5 since mid-2014 in Europe. It meets the EU6 emissions regulations. As well as the supercharger and sensor changes there are many others including the timing chains and fuel, where there is now a second set of injectors. Obviously the fact that the supercharger pulley is bolt-on instead of press-on means that aftermarket pulleys for the earlier engine won't fit. However perhaps more importantly is the fact that this engine uses the newer SIMOS 16 ECU. So far in Europe only the 'piggy-back' method tuning companies are supporting the CREC engine - no-one else has yet claimed to have hacked the ECU.

Thanks for the words all.

Thanks for the info dippy. In the ROW, the S4 made those changes mid 2014 but in the US the 2015 MY cars still had the old setup with the 4 prong sensors and traditional pulley. I had one. It looks like for the US cars the 2016 S4 may be the first ones to implement this as the 2016 A6 has. It looks like there is a start/stop feature on the engine too, yuck, lol. It hasnt been noticed yet, actually but that may be because i'm in sport mode always and with the A/C on.

I'll be interested in learning more about this ECU. Looks like the oversized crank pulley I bought may come to use but I need to make sure it will work on this engine too.

Mike

[Lensch09]

I'll try to get some pictures of my 16 this weekend and let you know. Now you have me interested

-DL

[bhvrdr]

I'll try to get some pictures of my 16 this weekend and let you know. Now you have me interested

-DL

thanks man, that would be great!

Mike

[lowjonathan]

nice ride

sub for more info

[MVR 155]

I'm curious to get your opinion of driving the A6 vs. the S4...... My plan is to order a new S6 around 10 months from now.

[bhvrdr]

Thanks guys. I edited the original post and will continue to edit it as I learn more about the 2016 (in US) CREC engine.

Regarding the difference in driving of the A6 with sport/s-line package vs the S4 I can say the A6 does drive a lot bigger. I used to think the steering of the S4 was vague and disconnected but the A6 takes this to another level, lol. It takes some getting used to. I actually like light steering like that on some MB cars I have owned and really disliked the steering on some P-cars I have had. So that tells you my bias and I can say that with the A6 I actually drive with the steering in dynamic mode it is so light and vague. The A6 steering in dynamic is very similar to the S4 steering in comfort mode (which is how I drove with mine).

The ride is extremely well damped. It also feels a little bit disconnected like there is a pillow between the wheels and your driver seat. Dont confuse that with me saying the car is floaty though because it isnt. Its body control is "ok" but then I felt the body control on the S4 was very much lacking too compared to my 2014 IS350.


The tiptronic ZF transmission is surprisingly good. I may have to eat crow on all my worries about how it will never match a DSG. It may not be exactly as fast but it has to be pretty close. I was also able to disable auto upshifts via vag com so I do have better manual control of the tranny than I did on the S4 which is kind of cool. The lack of launch control sucks. Keep in mind even the mash and go method on the S4 does trigger the LC counter so it is helpful that you can get a free rev as you release the brake and you cant do that on the A6. You have to brake torque it. Not sure how that will impact the 60ft times. I hope to get some baseline logs and runs in during the next couple weeks. Maybe even a baseline dyno.


Car porn...

[Dippy]

It looks like there is a start/stop feature on the engine too, yuck, lol.

In Europe start/stop came in at B8.5 in 2012. From what I read most of my fellow S4/S5 owners disable it on every journey. However I just try to use it selectively: I have the hill hold assist, so with light brake pedal pressure the HHA turns on to hold the car on the brakes without stopping the engine. If the lights just turned red then I'll press harder and stop the engine.

Looks like the oversized crank pulley I bought may come to use but I need to make sure it will work on this engine too.

Yes I believe so. From checking the drawings it looks like the crank pulley has not changed - so it probably has the same risk of failure as on the older cars. Once my local tuner has cracked the SIMOS 16 I shall be having a discussion about what oversize pulley to use. They fit a lightened single-part pulley but I had been reading threads on here about the pros and cons of that and I think I'd feel better having an oversize pulley including some sort of vibration damper. I don't think they exist yet but I believe that Fluidampr is planning one.

[bhvrdr]

In Europe start/stop came in at B8.5 in 2012. From what I read most of my fellow S4/S5 owners disable it on every journey. However I just try to use it selectively: I have the hill hold assist, so with light brake pedal pressure the HHA turns on to hold the car on the brakes without stopping the engine. If the lights just turned red then I'll press harder and stop the engine.




Yes I believe so. From checking the drawings it looks like the crank pulley has not changed - so it probably has the same risk of failure as on the older cars. Once my local tuner has cracked the SIMOS 16 I shall be having a discussion about what oversize pulley to use. They fit a lightened single-part pulley but I had been reading threads on here about the pros and cons of that and I think I'd feel better having an oversize pulley including some sort of vibration damper. I don't think they exist yet but I believe that Fluidampr is planning one.

Thanks very much for the information Dippy. I appreciate it.

Yes, I am also on a waiting list for the Fluidamper to come out. I'm intersted in the 4 bolt supercharger pulley though too. Eaton has a ton of applications that use 4 bolt pulleys but there is no way for me to know if those pulleys fit correctly. I believe even the Mini has a 4 bolt pulley solution. It seems it would not be hard to have one machined. It looks like I could get it off without going to service position.


More car pron. I decided to buy a second airbox so I can hack up this one. I'm not really one for finesse...

[Motown_Dub]

OK. Spill it...what happened with the S4? Why the change?

[bhvrdr]

It's extremely hard for me to keep a car past a year. I loved the car but I like cars too much not to try another. The s4 traded in really well. It was back to stock in 10 minutes as since I got a pretty good deal on it it was easy to dump. I'm sure I'll be in something else soon enough too.

Mike

[B18b1ex]

It's extremely hard for me to keep a car past a year. I loved the car but I like cars too much not to try another. The s4 traded in really well. It was back to stock in 10 minutes as since I got a pretty good deal on it it was easy to dump. I'm sure I'll be in something else soon enough too.

Mike

You are too funny. :) Track nights are coming back. A6 or Civic Si? :)

[bhvrdr]

You are too funny. :) Track nights are coming back. A6 or Civic Si? :)

Hehe, it'll definitely be the civic. Darn, now I need to start working on that. Time to get off my butt and put an mp62 on it.

[Motown_Dub]

It's extremely hard for me to keep a car past a year. I loved the car but I like cars too much not to try another. The s4 traded in really well. It was back to stock in 10 minutes as since I got a pretty good deal on it it was easy to dump. I'm sure I'll be in something else soon enough too.

Mike

I understand. I'm trying to stop doing that, I was changing up about every two years.

[B18b1ex]

Thanks for the words all.

Thanks for the info dippy. In the ROW, the S4 made those changes mid 2014 but in the US the 2015 MY cars still had the old setup with the 4 prong sensors and traditional pulley. I had one. It looks like for the US cars the 2016 S4 may be the first ones to implement this as the 2016 A6 has. It looks like there is a start/stop feature on the engine too, yuck, lol. It hasnt been noticed yet, actually but that may be because i'm in sport mode always and with the A/C on.

I'll be interested in learning more about this ECU. Looks like the oversized crank pulley I bought may come to use but I need to make sure it will work on this engine too.

Mike

Mike there is a guy who posted that his 2015 S4 has the three prong sensor in the B8 Classifieds. Maybe it was a late build and they began to make the change over.

[bhvrdr]

Mike there is a guy who posted that his 2015 S4 has the three prong sensor in the B8 Classifieds. Maybe it was a late build and they began to make the change over.

His car was from australia. The US ones have old engine through 2015 but not sure about 2016.

[B18b1ex]

His car was from australia. The US ones have old engine through 2015 but not sure about 2016.

Did not notice that. :), I went on the chipwerke site looking for my friend with the A6. They list a unit for 333hp A6 is this the 2016?

[Dippy]

Yes, I am also on a waiting list for the Fluidamper to come out. I'm intersted in the 4 bolt supercharger pulley though too. Eaton has a ton of applications that use 4 bolt pulleys but there is no way for me to know if those pulleys fit correctly. I believe even the Mini has a 4 bolt pulley solution. It seems it would not be hard to have one machined. It looks like I could get it off without going to service position.

In my case I'd prefer to have my tuning done as a package and there are only 2 tuners over here that I trust to provide a good stage II package and that's APR who you'll know about, and MRC who you likely don't. As it stands APR's package is the smaller supercharger pulley and ECU remap, whereas MRC offer a larger crank pulley and remap. Based on the results I have seen, MRC get as much as 20 bhp and 70 Nm (engine) more than APR with their package. Not only is that attractive but I cannot ignore the fact that a stage II with supercharger pulley is going to increase the chances of the OEM crank pulley failing. In terms of risk taking I actually prefer having an undampened crank pulley. However hopefully due to the increased knowledge about OEM crank pulley failure and the recent increased interest in dual pulley set-up (or maybe interest in oversized crank pulley instead of smaller supercharger pulley), there will be a dampened stage II crank pulley available soon and will likely be my preferred solution.

[Lensch09]

I can confirm that the pulley system on the '16 S4 is the same as all the rest of the B8.5.

This makes sense. Why would Audi change design and tool up with ECU changes/part changes for one limited run of a last model year.

Pictures of the pulley setup on my '16





-

DL

[B18b1ex]

I can confirm that the pulley system on the '16 S4 is the same as all the rest of the B8.5.

This makes sense. Why would Audi change design and tool up with ECU changes/part changes for one limited run of a last model year.

Pictures of the pulley setup on my '16





-

DL

Are your Map sensors 3 prong or 4 prong on the supercharger?

[bhvrdr]

Thanks Lensch!

[Lensch09]

Are your Map sensors 3 prong or 4 prong on the supercharger?

No clue. Didn't look.

-DL

[agent47]

Hi all,

I picked up a 2016 A6 with the 3.0TFSI that is now rated at the same 333hp as the S4 engine. I noticed some interesting differences so far though...


Take a look at the pulley. Looks much easier to remove/replace. Does anyone with the 2016 S4 have the same type of pulley?



Close up...





I also noticed the connectors for the MAP sensors are 3 prong instead of 4 prong like the earlier engines. This should also be the case for the 2015 versus 2016 S4. When I asked someone about that the person told me Audi is now using a high frequency base for the sensors and the old were a low frequency base.


Another thing I noticed is that it seems the snout is more modular now. Maybe not since I never really looked into it too much on the S4 but it seems like now the snout can come off which means the possibility of snout coolers could be easier to do. Again, not sure but just a thought.


Thanks Dippy for leading me to look up differences on this engine now called the CREC engine. If you look at the sides of the supercharger you see another set of injectors - port injectors. So this engine has 12 fuel injectors, presumably to reduce carbon buildup?


According to Arin at APR the engine also has sleeved cylinders. Not confirmed. Also the engine management is now the Simos 16 as opposed to Simos 8.

More to come. Just thought I'd share.

Mike

Post up in C7 forum maybe?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[agent47]

Thanks guys. I edited the original post and will continue to edit it as I learn more about the 2016 (in US) CREC engine.

Regarding the difference in driving of the A6 with sport/s-line package vs the S4 I can say the A6 does drive a lot bigger. I used to think the steering of the S4 was vague and disconnected but the A6 takes this to another level, lol. It takes some getting used to. I actually like light steering like that on some MB cars I have owned and really disliked the steering on some P-cars I have had. So that tells you my bias and I can say that with the A6 I actually drive with the steering in dynamic mode it is so light and vague. The A6 steering in dynamic is very similar to the S4 steering in comfort mode (which is how I drove with mine).

The ride is extremely well damped. It also feels a little bit disconnected like there is a pillow between the wheels and your driver seat. Dont confuse that with me saying the car is floaty though because it isnt. Its body control is "ok" but then I felt the body control on the S4 was very much lacking too compared to my 2014 IS350.


The tiptronic ZF transmission is surprisingly good. I may have to eat crow on all my worries about how it will never match a DSG. It may not be exactly as fast but it has to be pretty close. I was also able to disable auto upshifts via vag com so I do have better manual control of the tranny than I did on the S4 which is kind of cool. The lack of launch control sucks. Keep in mind even the mash and go method on the S4 does trigger the LC counter so it is helpful that you can get a free rev as you release the brake and you cant do that on the A6. You have to brake torque it. Not sure how that will impact the 60ft times. I hope to get some baseline logs and runs in during the next couple weeks. Maybe even a baseline dyno.


Car porn...

You car's darker sister. Lol. Ok so try one with the 20" wheels and also michelin pss or as3 OR Conti DWS6 - the steering feel will change drastically. I had the AK installed along with the 034 insert package. Changes a whole lot of stuff. Also ended up with the roc euro

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[Midnight_Rider]

I think A6 is a very nice car, but I drove one as a dealer rental, and had to return it within 15 minutes. It's so cumbersome, and heavy. I just really couldn't feel the car out. I know it was a short drive, but just didn't like it as much.

I might switch to S3. Honestly, that car was fun to drive.

[The Fat Kid]

Nice car, is it Nardo? You should have picked up an S8 from Carmax

[agent47]

@bhvrdr I am gonna post your thread's link to the C7 forum. Quite a few guys will appreciate the knowledge that you and others have contributed to this.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[agent47]

So even ABT hasnt been able to crack the ECU code on the CREC 3.0TFSI. They do offer a piggy back that costs ONLY $4478 before taxes and assembly. Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[bhvrdr]

MODERATORS: feel free to move this to the C7 A6 forum. I was thinking it may relate to the 2016 S4 but it apparently does not.



Yeah, the A6 CREC has very limited tuning potential right now it looks like. I just reached out to Murat at CW and asked him about the new map sensors and he said a harness is no problem and he would have one for me soon but he said the sensors run on a higher voltage and he may have to completely redo the tuning boxes and maps for them to get it to work. I told him i'm happy to play guinea pig so I'm hoping he'll let me buy the harness and beta test it.

agent, what wheels are those? I just bought some TSW Nurburgs 20x9" et35. I put 255/35 on them but now I'm wondering if 275/30 would have fit too.

I gave John at Unitronic my ECU box code but didnt hear back as I'm sure they dont have anything yet.

Mike

[agent47]

MODERATORS: feel free to move this to the C7 A6 forum. I was thinking it may relate to the 2016 S4 but it apparently does not.



Yeah, the A6 CREC has very limited tuning potential right now it looks like. I just reached out to Murat at CW and asked him about the new map sensors and he said a harness is no problem and he would have one for me soon but he said the sensors run on a higher voltage and he may have to completely redo the tuning boxes and maps for them to get it to work. I told him i'm happy to play guinea pig so I'm hoping he'll let me buy the harness and beta test it.

agent, what wheels are those? I just bought some TSW Nurburgs 20x9" et35. I put 255/35 on them but now I'm wondering if 275/30 would have fit too.

I gave John at Unitronic my ECU box code but didnt hear back as I'm sure they dont have anything yet.

Mike

In the EUR S4/5 they have been using this engine for a while and none of the tuners could crack the code. @Dippy already mentioned the details. All in all I know 2 2016 A6 ecu's that have been extracted and sent to APR , 2 of us guys sending our box codes- nothing has come to fruit yet.
Coming to CW- the way it works (per what I was told) is that it cheats the ecu into thinking more boost is needed and hence the bleed off valve is shut (the supercharger is running at all times). But if the supercharger is on a clutch mechanism as mentioned earlier on this thread, the piggy back tuners will have to dig in more to find out what the clutch mechanism is based on -the throttle input or something else because closing the bleed off valve wont do anything.
The wheels are BBS CIR 20x8.5 et 32 . Initially I was after the Vorsteiner VFF 101 but they dont make it in 20" fitment for us. Then came along BBS CIR and I jumped on it.
You could have gone 265/35 for some added lip protection. 255/35 wont be too stretched though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

[bhvrdr]

In the EUR S4/5 they have been using this engine for a while and none of the tuners could crack the code. @Dippy already mentioned the details. All in all I know 2 2016 A6 ecu's that have been extracted and sent to APR , 2 of us guys sending our box codes- nothing has come to fruit yet.
Coming to CW- the way it works (per what I was told) is that it cheats the ecu into thinking more boost is needed and hence the bleed off valve is shut (the supercharger is running at all times). But if the supercharger is on a clutch mechanism as mentioned earlier on this thread, the piggy back tuners will have to dig in more to find out what the clutch mechanism is based on -the throttle input or something else because closing the bleed off valve wont do anything.
The wheels are BBS CIR 20x8.5 et 32 . Initially I was after the Vorsteiner VFF 101 but they dont make it in 20" fitment for us. Then came along BBS CIR and I jumped on it.
You could have gone 265/35 for some added lip protection. 255/35 wont be too stretched though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk

I've done some logging and there is still bypass coming from exceeding boost targets. Im guessing the clutch is used for the stop/start function and idling. It "shouldnt" come into play but we'll see.

I like the wheels. I was looking at them on TR

Mike