DSG blows up after APR tune- guy is stuck with a TD1 and a very expensive repair bill

[markn1689]

sorry if this is a repost- but it must be brought to your attention

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...9#post93871129

the guy even flashed back to stock but the tune was still detected

[S3Danny]

I'm going to start buying an APR product everytime you make a post.

We get it. You don't like them. Nobody cares.

[hipnix]

In before roadrunner_oz shows up to pile on.

[will13k7]

Stock DSGs fail, hard to pin this on an aftermarket tune. Good to know about the repair price though, fixing the DSG is coming way down on cost, less of a risk now, even though you won't be happy about the bill.

[jcdeng]

OP, I dont have any APR products on my car yet so I am no fanboy but for the short amount of time I been on this site I have already seen you started 3 threads bashing APR so what is your agenda? did you have apr at one point and your drivetrain blew up or do you work for a competitor of APR? I am just curious, and yes I know this is not b8 s4 section, but I just noticed a trend everytime I click on New posts tab and see "xxx blew up after APR tune" thread and its started by you.

[roadrunner_oz]

In before roadrunner_oz shows up to pile on.

LOL. I don't have a problem with APR in general. Bought a few of their products. Their ECU tune was excellent. However their DSG tune was rubbish, still is even with new version. I'd just urge other to look into other DSG tuning options.

[roadrunner_oz]

Stock DSGs fail, hard to pin this on an aftermarket tune. Good to know about the repair price though, fixing the DSG is coming way down on cost, less of a risk now, even though you won't be happy about the bill.

Mechatronics, usually big $$, seems to be fine in this case.

[A20V200]

sorry if this is a repost- but it must be brought to your attention

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...9#post93871129

the guy even flashed back to stock but the tune was still detected

You really should start your own APR TUNE DSG FAIL THREAD and keep posting in it/updating it, instead of making a new one each time. that way you can point people to 1 thread instead of many...?

Just saying.

[phillyquattro]

Oh another APR hating thread from Mark. Yawn.

The only thing I learned here is that the cost of fixing the DSG is far more reasonable than what I expected it to be. Maybe that's because it's a VW dealership vs an Audi dealership though. Also, while he flashed back to stock he then took it straight to the dealer. Hasn't it been stated that you need to drive the car for 50+ miles or so for the ECU to recalibrate, similar to when you get it flashed from stock to stage 1 or 2? Or is that just BS?

[roadrunner_oz]

Oh another APR hating thread from Mark. Yawn.

The only thing I learned here is that the cost of fixing the DSG is far more reasonable than what I expected it to be. Maybe that's because it's a VW dealership vs an Audi dealership though. Also, while he flashed back to stock he then took it straight to the dealer. Hasn't it been stated that you need to drive the car for 50+ miles or so for the ECU to recalibrate, similar to when you get it flashed from stock to stage 1 or 2? Or is that just BS?

Unfortunately with a broken DSG or turbo you can't get those miles back on. TBH I think it is BS.

[diztek]

from what i understand, the stock file from a tuner is not the stock file that audi loads. also, from what ive read recently, the dealer can see the date and time of when the ecu was flashed and/or flashed back to stock settings.

[forbiddenbeat]

from what i understand, the stock file from a tuner is not the stock file that audi loads. also, from what ive read recently, the dealer can see the date and time of when the ecu was flashed and/or flashed back to stock settings.

I think the general conclusion now is that flashing to stock will avoid automatic TD1 on dealer visits, but if you blow your transmission or turbo, most likely they will see evidence of a tune. I started a thread asking specifically about this (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...D1-if-possible), and for this reason am just going to keep the car stock.

[diztek]

right. if they test drive and your flashed back to stock, they wont know, but if the dealer really wants to know they can find out. i think the only real way to avoid this is to have a cool mod friendly dealership, or have 2 ecu's.

[HurrayFive]

I think the general conclusion now is that flashing to stock will avoid automatic TD1 on dealer visits, but if you blow your transmission or turbo, most likely they will see evidence of a tune. I started a thread asking specifically about this (http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...D1-if-possible), and for this reason am just going to keep the car stock.

This is the important distinction, my tuning shop has 100's of APR VW and Audi vehicles, no less than a dozen MK7 R's and S3's, they're recommendation based on many years of experience is after a flash back to stock, put at least 80 miles on the car to rebuild the environmental and historic data tables so the car doesn't look like it's factory fresh at X number of miles.

Following this is the best way to avoid an auto TD1 during any scheduled service visit or minor warranty concern. I do this, and so far across two Audi's and 10 service visits, never a TD1.

Now, if you blow a turbo, engine, transmission or have any other equally "catastrophic failure", it's both VW and AoA policy to yank the ECU and do a detailed analysis. At that point, you're out of luck if you have ever, at any time, modified the ECU, vendor does not matter. And that should be expected. You're going to pay for it. If you don't want to be in that boat, don't modify the car, end of story.

[jcdeng]

If you don't want to be in that boat, don't modify the car, end of story.

OR, go with CW piggyback.

[bakedcorn]

OR, go with CW piggyback.

Reading up on posts it seems even piggybacks can be detected - different map reports, boost etc; it seems the best solution is to have 2 ECU's on hand - one staged and the other as a factory backup.

As HurrayFive has mentioned, leave it as stock.

[S3Danny]

As with anything, modifying is a pay to play game. Just assume that your warranty is gone when you load a tune or plug in a piggy back and you won't be disappointed if you aren't covered in the event of something breaking.

[Bradley77]

As with anything, modifying is a pay to play game. Just assume that your warranty is gone when you load a tune or plug in a piggy back and you won't be disappointed if you aren't covered in the event of something breaking.

I think the tune shops need to stop telling people the tune is not detectable once flashed back to stock while charging you 200 dollars for a lifetime reflash. I wonder if the tune shops come up with this on their own or if its told to them by the tune manufacturer? If the tuners know about this they should step up and make people aware before they purchase a tune.

[Blairautomotive]

I always tell my clients that flashing back to stock "may" prevent a TD1 but there are no guarantees and to assume your warranty is void for any drive-train related concerns. I have many tuner friendly VW stores in my area though, and they seem to be much more willing to work with clients than any of the Audi stores. That being said every apr flash requires a client to read and submit a response to an email before we can even flash their car. It clearly states the APR policies.

[will13k7]

I don't think APR could make it any clearer, they have covered their butts for sure:

Turbo Disclaimer

Enhancing the performance of a vehicle through hardware or software modifications sold by APR, LLC will increase the stresses and wear placed on the vehicle’s engine, ancillary parts and components and drivetrain. This in turn may accelerate their normal wear and need for service and replacement and decrease their longevity. This is true even for versions of software that are lower output because such lower output versions create less stresses than the high output versions but still increase the stresses relative to factory settings.

Additionally, on August 5, 2014, Audi released a Technical Service Bulletin (21E7 UPDATE) stating that on A3 vehicles manufactured during a certain period “the turbocharger may fail causing the MIL to illuminate.” The turbochargers referenced in this bulletin are the same as or similar to those utilized on other vehicles manufactured by the Volkswagen Auto Group (VAG). The increased stresses placed on the vehicle’s engine, ancillary parts and components and drivetrain by APR, LLC hardware or software (including both low and high output versions) may also exacerbate any inherent design or production flaws in these turbochargers, accelerate their failure and thereby result in other damage.

APR, LLC makes no claims, promises or guarantees regarding the effects any of its products have on the longevity of the engines, ancillary parts and components or drivetrains of customer vehicles.

The customer understands that installing APR, LLC products on such vehicles could void the manufacturer’s or other third party warranty should the turbocharger or any other part covered by the warranty fail. The customer further understands and agrees that APR, LLC expressly disclaims and shall have no liability for any damages of any kind related to vehicle failures or a manufacturer or third party refusing to honor a warranty. In furtherance and not in limitation of the foregoing, APR, LLC EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS.

Regarding the aforementioned circumstances, access to APR, LLC software is expressly conditioned upon acceptance of all terms and conditions contained in this agreement. If you accept the foregoing terms and conditions, please indicate your agreement by clicking the link below labeled “I ACCPT.”

IACCEPT

[2015S3]

Pretty straight forward

[roadrunner_oz]

Only tuning co to sort of offer warranty (take over factory warranty) is ABT

[2015S3]

And you pay for it, LOL.

[DarkSideGTI]

There is a flash counter, so they can tel even if the stock file has been written to the ECU.

As for the DSG issue, I don't think the tune was necessarily responsible. The guy just had bad luck.