Opinion needed: piggyback or Unitronic tune? Would like to avoid TD1 if possible

[forbiddenbeat]

I'm leasing my S3, so would like to avoid an TD1 flag if at all possible. I'm less concerned about paying to play than I am with potentially causing issues when I return the car.

From what I can tell, even though Unitronic can flash back to stock, it's still possible for the dealer to eventually figure out the car was tuned. A piggyback sounds like it won't have that issue, though some are saying there may still be ways of telling a car had a piggyback unit on it.

Any opinions on this would be appreciated. I'm looking for the best path to avoiding TD1, or an informed answer that there's no way to guarantee a dealer won't find something. With either a flash or a piggyback, I obviously would never take the car to the dealer with either (flash back to stock or remove the piggyback). In fact, I don't plan on visiting the dealer ever during the lease, unless I really have to (TSB, some other issue I want sorted like an electrical fault, etc.).

Thanks!

[roadrunner_oz]

Don't think that there are any reports of either triggering a TD1, however Audi tuning detection methods are always evolving

[Tripe46]

I'm leasing my S3, so would like to avoid an TD1 flag if at all possible. I'm less concerned about paying to play than I am with potentially causing issues when I return the car.

From what I can tell, even though Unitronic can flash back to stock, it's still possible for the dealer to eventually figure out the car was tuned. A piggyback sounds like it won't have that issue, though some are saying there may still be ways of telling a car had a piggyback unit on it.

Any opinions on this would be appreciated. I'm looking for the best path to avoiding TD1, or an informed answer that there's no way to guarantee a dealer won't find something. With either a flash or a piggyback, I obviously would never take the car to the dealer with either (flash back to stock or remove the piggyback). In fact, I don't plan on visiting the dealer ever during the lease, unless I really have to (TSB, some other issue I want sorted like an electrical fault, etc.).

Thanks!

To the best of my understanding, TD1 is a "flash counter". Just like a flash drive in your PC once you write data, that count goes up by 1. So even if a tune is removed there is still a chance that you could be flagged.

Beyond that I''m sure that there is evidence if you use a manual controller as well. If boost, or the air/fuel ratios are way out of their normal range I'm assuming any new(ish) car logs that sort of data. That does not mean you will get caught, but if something did happen they could potentially use data like that to make it "your fault".

The fact that it's leased throws an additional wrench into the situation. I have no idea what the repercussions might be if something happened due to a tune. Could they make you buy the car? I doubt it, but I wouldn't mess with it on a lease.

Your best bet is to talk to your dealer and see what their policies are etc.. or find a dealer that is "mod friendly". I called around when I first bought my S3 and found a VW dealer that installs and warranties APR tunes. However they only warranty VW cars. They said that they would tune the Audi (and have done a lot of them), but they would not cover it. So I decided to bag tuning for the time being.

As I'm sure a lot of others will say. There is a good chance that you could tune it an never have a problem, but if you do have a problem there is an even better chance that you will be pulling at least a couple hundred, and probably a couple thousand out of your own pocket when something goes wrong. If you know that, and can deal...tune away!!!

[will13k7]

Audi must love reading these posts from folks intent on defrauding them. lol.

[roadrunner_oz]

TD1 is not triggered by the flash counter. Currently a TD1 is automatically detected by the presence of non-Audi software on the ECU. There was a thread just last week of an APR car with blown turbo being unflashed and flash counter returned to stock, and this car was still pinged for TD1 as the flash date was out of sync. If you are concerned about TD1 then don't tune.

[forbiddenbeat]

Audi must love reading these posts from folks intent on defrauding them. lol.

Heh, true. I'm mainly just leaving options open. I know the grounds for Moss Magnuson applying are possibly fuzzy, so perhaps my best bet is fining a dealer that isn't overly aggressive about voiding (or finding TD1). I've had issues in the past where dealers would just void anything at all if you had a tune (even electrical issues).

I also live in the Bay Area, so if you have a dealer you think treats tuned cars fairly, please shoot me a PM.

[YegorS]

Audi must love reading these posts from folks intent on defrauding them. lol.

Hahaha, that's true.

If they cared a little more about those who buy their high performance cars, they would provide in-house tuning.

[forbiddenbeat]

TD1 is not triggered by the flash counter. Currently a TD1 is automatically detected by the presence of non-Audi software on the ECU. There was a thread just last week of an APR car with blown turbo being unflashed and flash counter returned to stock, and this car was still pinged for TD1 as the flash date was out of sync. If you are concerned about TD1 then don't tune.

Thank you, this is what I was looking for. So, no tune for me then. If it wasn't a lease I'd probably not worry about it, but it's not clear what happens when you turn a car in with TD1. Some say no one cares, others say Audi could point out that you violated the lease contract and make you buy it. Not worth it for me, I'll just swap the lease for an RS3 when it comes out. :)

[YegorS]

Thank you, this is what I was looking for. So, no tune for me then. If it wasn't a lease I'd probably not worry about it, but it's not clear what happens when you turn a car in with TD1. Some say no one cares, others say Audi could point out that you violated the lease contract and make you buy it. Not worth it for me, I'll just swap the lease for an RS3 when it comes out. :)

Why don't you just throw a JB1? I ordered one and still waiting mine to arrive, but there is nothing else other than hundreds of pages of positive feedbacks on the forums. It's only $380: use it until you're to get the RS3 then sell it for $300 or so and move one and that's my plan. Installed the downpipe today and the only other modification I am going to do is the JB1.

[ModdedEuros]

I would go with a tried and true consistent, reliable powerful tune like Unitronic and flash at home with UniConnect. Flash back to stock before going in to the dealer. As mentioned above td1 is if you drive in with a flashed ECU

If you are really worried about a warranty though, it may also be best for you to just not mod your car. Any performance part can cause warranty issues at the end of the day

[ojmcneill]

lol, come on people. Look man, you can get a piggy back like the chipwerkes deal and they aren't going to mess with you unless your goofy enough to forget to pull it before going in for service. I mean, if it were me, and given the slight chance that they come and say, 'hey we have codes showing your boost was running a bit high', I'd be like, 'well, fix the damn car then. It's obviously got a problem.
I mean sometimes we take these TD1 deals way too seriously. I wouldn't tune it though. Even with flashing back to stock, there's that slight slight chance that they'll bust you from the flash counter. I've not tuned my s4 bc I'm goofy enough to forget to flash back to stock before service. I would however, add that chipwerkes deal if I wasn't so dag gone cheap. I'll break down and buy one soon.

Just do it and enjoy the car. I don't have any info on the JB1 though. THat might be an option.

[coolwater]

I say tune it and buy some insurance for any major blow ups.
I've had Geico cover some things on my A4 after being flagged for TD1.

They basically cover what the AOA won't. There was an A3 owner that had a whole engine swapped after TD1.

-cW

[selp]

I would go with a tried and true consistent, reliable powerful tune like Unitronic and flash at home with UniConnect. Flash back to stock before going in to the dealer. As mentioned above td1 is if you drive in with a flashed ECU

If you are really worried about a warranty though, it may also be best for you to just not mod your car. Any performance part can cause warranty issues at the end of the day

If they ever release their locked ECU tunes...

[ModdedEuros]

If they ever release their locked ECU tunes...

they will. they just do not want to have issues from quick releases like in other cases out there

[kskevin]

I have 2013 A5 with APR Stg2. Had a tech bulletin for some crap about the HVAC system that my SA said they had to plug in to re-program (no way to do the work without plugging in). I had the car flashed back to stock by an authorized APR installer who is intimately familiar with doing this to avoid TD1 flags prior to the service visit. My SA called today to tell me my car was done but unfortunately flagged TD1. My invoice/receipt says nothing of the TD1 flag so I would have never known (until some later date if I had some drivetrain warranty issue) that my car had been flagged. My SA is great and has always worked with me knowing full well why I always asked to not be plugged in for service/warranty work if it could be avoided so they would always use the VAG-COM cable to reset service indicator.

Just a PSA for all you guys out there. I knew the risk and chose to take it. Price to pay when you play.

#TD1onStockFlash