Thinking of buying out my lease, reliability concerns?

[shappy]

I have been religiously leasing my cars for about 20 years now. I have always liked the idea of driving something new and different every 2 or 3 years, always having a car under warranty, having a newer car that didn't need much maintenance upkeep and also not having to have a large sum of money tied up in a car in order to have a budget friendly payment.

I have had my S4 for nearly two years now, with about another year left on the lease. As I usually do, I start shopping for my next car shortly after getting my current car. My problem is that I have not been able to find anything that I really love.

With the next S4 dropping the manual transmission, I can't consider that. I don't like the BMW 3/4 Series, so that is out. I could do a GTI/Golf R, but it would sort of be settling. WRX/STI are not refined enough and too much turbo lag for my tastes (the linear power delivery of the S4 has really spoiled me). I would consider a Caddy ATS, but nobody stocks a manual for me to test drive. Cars like the ATS-V and M3/M4 are out of my price range. I love the Chevy SS Sedan, but they 1) don't lease and 2) it is an orphan and, while I would consider buying one, the notion of scarce replacement parts scares me away.

So that has me considering purchasing my S4. I love the car, it has been completely trouble free (although I am at only 10K miles) and buying it out at the end of the lease for $33K would be below market value.

However, my big concern is reliability and cost of repair (after it is out of warranty). I would be keeping it for 2 or 3 additional years, at the minimum.

What kind of repair and maintenance costs should I be concerned about?

I would really appreciate any input as I am really flying blind here.

Thanks!

[chaos2984]

Well This is what I am going to do as well. I don't really like the upcoming S4. Im not fond of the interior. I would have to see it in person first.

But who better that knows the car your going to buy than you. Since you had it since day 1 you know how it acts and everything. Im guessing you have a 2013? If you haven't had any issues with the car I wouldn't really expect anything crazy to go wrong with the car. Im sure you keep up with the maintenance on the car. The only thing major you have to worry about is spark plug change. But that's not until 55K or there about's. Have to consult the manual. But there's nothing really major service wise with the manual version. The engine is practically bullet proof as far as internals go. The drive train is solid as well. Sounds like you don't put that many miles on the car either. Im sure you will be just fine if you choose to keep it.

[MrFunk]

These cars have been very reliable.
Regular maintenance will be about the same on this car as any... oil changes every 5k, brake fluid flushes, coolant flushes, pads, rotors, tires... You can download the suggested maintenance schedule for the car and look at it... a lot of it is stuff you can do yourself (cabin filters etc)... Keep on top of the basic stuff and the car will run for a long while... occasionally you may have an out of pocket repair - but what you will be saving with no payment will far exceed the cost of any repairs...

Biggest repair I see with these would be needing a new clutch... but in reality the clutch should easily last at least 100k if you are not abusing it... if it's solid after 2 years and you know what you're doing with a manual I would not worry about it... if you do want to worry about it then I'll say a new clutch would cost you perhaps 2k all said and done...

[sacandagaD]

So do you have a 13 or a 2014 with 10k miles on it? If so, and you continue to drive at that rate, in 3-4 years, you will only have 30k or so. Anything can happen, but I can't see where much can really go wrong between now and then. You could always purchase aftermarket warranty, but if the miles are going to be that low, I'd just roll the dice and self-insure against any repairs. Would be different if you were keeping 5 year old car with 50-75k miles on it.

[shappy]

So do you have a 13 or a 2014 with 10k miles on it? If so, and you continue to drive at that rate, in 3-4 years, you will only have 30k or so. Anything can happen, but I can't see where much can really go wrong between now and then. You could always purchase aftermarket warranty, but if the miles are going to be that low, I'd just roll the dice and self-insure against any repairs. Would be different if you were keeping 5 year old car with 50-75k miles on it.

It is actually a 2014, but I would be looking to buy it out around this time next year, 3 months before the end of the lease. The way AFS and VW Credit do things, if you buy it out outside of 90 days, then the payoff is the contract residual plus any remaining payments. If you are within 90 days of maturity, then the buyout amount changes to market value.

I anticipate the car will have about 16K miles on it at that time. I do have AudiCare for 4 years, so at least another year after I were to buy it out.

In addition, the car is completely stock, so the clutch should be in good shape.

[infinkc]

If it makes your decision any more easier, I am at 110k in my 10'. I have only done regular scheduled maintenance and a new clutch. This car has been really reliable. It has been one of the few cars I haven't sold yet as I usually get a new car every 2-3 yrs like you.

[mehware]

33k? Isn't your model year kbb way less. I would drop lease buy a CPO that's newer or more options for less than 33k. BTW a few months ago dealer offered me 31k and 36k on my 13 S5. Check cars.com

Matthew

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[shappy]

33k? Isn't your model year kbb way less. I would drop lease buy a CPO that's newer or more options for less than 33k. BTW a few months ago dealer offered me 31k and 36k on my 13 S5. Check cars.com

Matthew

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The only valuation source that I pay attention to is Black Book, since that is what most dealers in Florida use. It has always been accurate when I have gone to trade out of my leases early.

Right now a MY13 S4 with 16K miles on it has a clean trade in value of $34,800. So, a year from now, my MY14 should easily be worth the $33K buyout amount.

I have every expectation that the value of a manual S4 will hold strong over the next year as availability of new ones dries up. For example, the closest manual S4 available new right now is over 700 miles from me.

[shappy]

If it makes your decision any more easier, I am at 110k in my 10'. I have only done regular scheduled maintenance and a new clutch. This car has been really reliable. It has been one of the few cars I haven't sold yet as I usually get a new car every 2-3 yrs like you.

That kind of info is very helpful and encouraging, thanks!

[sacandagaD]

It is actually a 2014, but I would be looking to buy it out around this time next year, 3 months before the end of the lease. The way AFS and VW Credit do things, if you buy it out outside of 90 days, then the payoff is the contract residual plus any remaining payments. If you are within 90 days of maturity, then the buyout amount changes to market value.

I anticipate the car will have about 16K miles on it at that time. I do have AudiCare for 4 years, so at least another year after I were to buy it out.

In addition, the car is completely stock, so the clutch should be in good shape.

I may be wrong, but I didn't think Audicare was time dependent and would expire after your 45k service instead of after 4 years. Regardless, 16k is going to barely broken in! IMHO, I'd be all over buying it out if I were you, and you like the car so far.

[jokingjimmy]

Audi just took top spot for quality I thought I read somewhere. That being said here is my take on your situation:

1. After 20 years, you've found a car that doesn't force you into the "next car" itch. That is something to be said. Kinda like finding your soul mate!
2. The platform you are on (B8.5 same as me lol) is the most reliable iteration yet. I don't think I'll be buying an extended warranty, this car has made me feel so confident - plus the plethora of VAG independent shops makes it even more an attractive proposition.
3. Maintenance is the KEY. I have read people buying used S4s and having really crappy luck with them. However, I've found very few owners that religiously maintain their S4s that have owned them from new (so no other fail maintenance on the cars) having any issues at all. Maintenance seems to the the really big, key factor to quality of ownership down the road.

I haven't seen any major issues like the timing chain thing on older B5s or mechatronic stuff like the B8s. Carbon cleaning might be on your long term maintenance list, but other than that, you're probably golden.

[mehware]

I'm confused how it will only depreciate $1800 in a year. Maybe the Florida market is better than chicago but I always thought the first 5 years have a steep curve.

I'm not saying don't do it.. just thinking out loud.

Matthew

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[shappy]

I'm confused how it will only depreciate $1800 in a year. Maybe the Florida market is better than chicago but I always thought the first 5 years have a steep curve.

I'm not saying don't do it.. just thinking out loud.

Matthew

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I was comparing the value of a MY13 today vs my MY14 a year from now. Black Book shows my MY14 with 10K miles being worth about $40K today and I don't think it will lose $7K in value over the next year.

[brinboston]

Someone already mentioned a warranty and there are definitely 2 different views on this. I picked up a CPO a few months ago (original 4 yr/50k warranty expires end of November) and I'm debating picking up an aftermarket exclusionary warranty. It is available until the original warranty expires.

(looks like yours is a 6MT and may not be as risky as the DSG blowing up like mine is)

[The Fat Kid]

Single/married with no kids on the horizon and want something new: BMW M2
Single/married with no kids on the horizon and want pre-owned: 2014/15 Cayman S

Me: Married + kid + New-England weather = 2015 S4, but I have been watching way too many Cayman S videos lately...

[shappy]

Single/married with no kids on the horizon and want something new: BMW M2
Single/married with no kids on the horizon and want pre-owned: 2014/15 Cayman S

Me: Married + kid + New-England weather = 2015 S4, but I have been watching way too many Cayman S videos lately...

Married with one kid here. I would consider an M2, but I refuse to give up a sunroof. If I was willing to, I would probably just go with a Golf R, if I wanted something new.

[The Fat Kid]

Married with one kid here. I would consider an M2, but I refuse to give up a sunroof. If I was willing to, I would probably just go with a Golf R, if I wanted something new.

I wanted an R but my wife hates hatchbacks, so I ended up with an S4.

Low-mileage E92 M3s can be picked up for ~$40k, and seem pretty reliable.

[RudyH]

Single/married with no kids on the horizon and want something new: BMW M2
Single/married with no kids on the horizon and want pre-owned: 2014/15 Cayman S

Me: Married + kid + New-England weather = 2015 S4, but I have been watching way too many Cayman S videos lately...

Or a RS3 or a S5 sportback, both are what is getting me out of a S4 once my warranty expires. 2017 is going to be a wonderful year for Audi enthusiasts

[shappy]

I wanted an R but my wife hates hatchbacks, so I ended up with an S4.

Low-mileage E92 M3s can be picked up for ~$40k, and seem pretty reliable.

I would rather just keep my S4 over an E92 M3. That V8 is too high strung for my tastes.

Or a RS3 or a S5 sportback, both are what is getting me out of a S4 once my warranty expires. 2017 is going to be a wonderful year for Audi enthusiasts

No manual, no care. :(

[The Fat Kid]

Or a RS3 or a S5 sportback, both are what is getting me out of a S4 once my warranty expires. 2017 is going to be a wonderful year for Audi enthusiasts

The RS3 could be an option. The A5/S5/RS5 lineup has never blown my hair back, but who knows. I have been driving Audis for 12 years, so I might need date some skinny girls after the S4

My main issue is really space at this point since we only have one off-street parking spot, and we are not parking a nice car in the street. I would just give my wife the S4 and buy something sportier if we lived in the 'burbs.

[Dr GP]

Your lease agreement has a residual. This is a price, agreed upon at lease inception that gives you a guaranteed purchase price at end of the lease It also has a monthly buyout(which changes) that you can buy the car at any time prior to lease end. At no time is YOUR price to buy the car market value. In the last 90 days of your lease, if you try to trade the car in on a non Audi/VW dealer, AFS or VW Credit will make the purchaser pay market value for the car. BUT NOT THE LEASER. And a VW/Audi dealer can actually buy the car for less than the residual. Not trying to persuade you to not but the S4, but you really should take a look at the new M2. Just got a great review in C&D. $14k less than an M4. MSRP base price is $51K. But didn't realize you can't get it with a sunroof. That would be a deal breaker for me as well. Back in the 90's I purchased a Mustang Cobra and had them put in an aftermarket sunroof.

[shappy]

Your lease agreement has a residual. This is a price, agreed upon at lease inception that gives you a guaranteed purchase price at end of the lease It also has a monthly buyout(which changes) that you can buy the car at any time prior to lease end. At no time is YOUR price to buy the car market value. In the last 90 days of your lease, if you try to trade the car in on a non Audi/VW dealer, AFS or VW Credit will make the purchaser pay market value for the car. BUT NOT THE LEASER. And a VW/Audi dealer can actually buy the car for less than the residual. Not trying to persuade you to not but the S4, but you really should take a look at the new M2. Just got a great review in C&D. $14k less than an M4. MSRP base price is $51K. But didn't realize you can't get it with a sunroof. That would be a deal breaker for me as well. Back in the 90's I purchased a Mustang Cobra and had them put in an aftermarket sunroof.

Ah, didn't realize that the 90 day policy didn't apply to the leaser, good to know, thanks!

[Senseless]

Maintenance will be minimal for the next few years. I'm up to 50K miles with no problems. I'm planning on keeping mine for 100K miles and am not concerned, especially with a 6MT. Letting the dealer steal this car would be a shame. Besides the M2, there's nothing else I would consider anyway.

[eurotic]

What about cars with the sport diff? Is there any rebuild for it if something went wrong or are you stuck buying a whole new unit? And isn't the sport diff something like $8000+?

I plan to keep my car for a long time but that one component is the one that makes me worried just because it's an unknown. I'm at 105,000 km and would like to know that it will last at least 150,000 km more...including when I go stage 2 in about 18 months when CPO runs out.


Shawn

[Ernie1060]

Wait, can you explain this to me...

If I buy the car at the end of the lease, the contract I signed for my residual is no longer my purchase price? But if I buy out my lease before 90 days at the end of my lease, then the contract is valid?

Is this written into the lease?

I was thinking about buying my 2013 at the end of the lease but if this is true and this an VW / Audi thing, I may have to bail on this move onto a different brand.

[chaos2984]

Wait, can you explain this to me...

If I buy the car at the end of the lease, the contract I signed for my residual is no longer my purchase price? But if I buy out my lease before 90 days at the end of my lease, then the contract is valid?

Is this written into the lease?

I was thinking about buying my 2013 at the end of the lease but if this is true and this an VW / Audi thing, I may have to bail on this move onto a different brand.

No that's not true. If you buy out your lease at the last possible moment you pay that agreed upon residual price that what was calculated when you bought the car. Anytime before that you just get the payoff quote and that's what you owe to "buy it out"

[AudiDTMA4]

Could CPO it too, cost is $2750 for the S4. then you'll get 2 extra years and up to 100K of some sort of warranty

[SportVier]

What about cars with the sport diff? Is there any rebuild for it if something went wrong or are you stuck buying a whole new unit? And isn't the sport diff something like $8000+?

I plan to keep my car for a long time but that one component is the one that makes me worried just because it's an unknown. I'm at 105,000 km and would like to know that it will last at least 150,000 km more...including when I go stage 2 in about 18 months when CPO runs out.

Well, I would like to know that everything on my car will last forever. If you just push your Stage 2 hard in a straight line, which seems to be what most people around here are into , I'm (totally) guessing the diff will hold up for 150k miles. But if you are going to try regularly putting that power down while down exiting corners... could be a different (and shorter) story.

[Dr GP]

I don't think the sport dif is a real issue. I would be more concerned about the DSG trans and the clutch assembly in the 6 MT. The DSG would be covered under an extended or CPO warranty, not the clutch though. BTW, if the sport dif does fail, could you just decide not to repair it and drive the car just like those units built without the sport dif?Or would the car not be drive able?

[eurotic]

Well, I would like to know that everything on my car will last forever. If you just push your Stage 2 hard in a straight line, which seems to be what most people around here are into , I'm (totally) guessing the diff will hold up for 150k miles. But if you are going to try regularly putting that power down while down exiting corners... could be a different (and shorter) story.

I articulated that badly. I wasn't trying to suggest I wanted a guarantee or anything. A lot of people on here have the mindset that they will get something different when the warranty runs out because it is just too scary to consider owning an Audi out of warranty. They say you'll be fine, no need to worry, but in their mind it's a given that only a lunatic would keep the car without warranty so obviously I wouldn't keep it that long. 8-)

Looking at the maintenance schedule the sport diff isn't even on it and that goes to 135k mi (205k km). Maybe for fun I'll call my SA and see what sort of service they recommend and see what some costs are.

I don't think the sport dif is a real issue. I would be more concerned about the DSG trans and the clutch assembly in the 6 MT. The DSG would be covered under an extended or CPO warranty, not the clutch though. BTW, if the sport dif does fail, could you just decide not to repair it and drive the car just like those units built without the sport dif?Or would the car not be drive able?

I guess it would depend on how it failed. Maybe if it was just electronics then you could still drive it.

[johnstah]

I have been religiously leasing my cars for about 20 years now. I have always liked the idea of driving something new and different every 2 or 3 years, always having a car under warranty, having a newer car that didn't need much maintenance upkeep and also not having to have a large sum of money tied up in a car in order to have a budget friendly payment.

I have had my S4 for nearly two years now, with about another year left on the lease. As I usually do, I start shopping for my next car shortly after getting my current car. My problem is that I have not been able to find anything that I really love.

With the next S4 dropping the manual transmission, I can't consider that. I don't like the BMW 3/4 Series, so that is out. I could do a GTI/Golf R, but it would sort of be settling. WRX/STI are not refined enough and too much turbo lag for my tastes (the linear power delivery of the S4 has really spoiled me). I would consider a Caddy ATS, but nobody stocks a manual for me to test drive. Cars like the ATS-V and M3/M4 are out of my price range. I love the Chevy SS Sedan, but they 1) don't lease and 2) it is an orphan and, while I would consider buying one, the notion of scarce replacement parts scares me away.

So that has me considering purchasing my S4. I love the car, it has been completely trouble free (although I am at only 10K miles) and buying it out at the end of the lease for $33K would be below market value.

However, my big concern is reliability and cost of repair (after it is out of warranty). I would be keeping it for 2 or 3 additional years, at the minimum.

What kind of repair and maintenance costs should I be concerned about?

I would really appreciate any input as I am really flying blind here.

Thanks!

Reliable car but the dreaded steering issue is annoying

[RickFLS4]

I see you are nearby in Boynton Beach. As an FYI, unless something has changed in the last 8 mos. you won't be able to buy out the car at the residual directly from AFS because AFS isn't a licensed dealer in FL. They will make you go through a FL dealer who will mark up the buyout and / or add in dealer fees.

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[Oloung1]

They will make you go through a FL dealer who will mark up the buyout and / or add in dealer fees.

would shopping around another dealer possibly give better buyout fees? im a few months from turn in as well.

[RickFLS4]

would shopping around another dealer possibly give better buyout fees? im a few months from turn in as well.

I tried two dealers and both wanted a dealer fee and one wanted to markup the residual on top of a dealer fee. AFS told me they thought this was ok. I wanted to buy out my S4 but got pissed off by that BS and traded it in elsewhere. Shopping around is always a good idea but dealers don't have much incentive to negotiate in this case and IMO you shouldn't need to shop around to buy a car at the contract residual. Maybe if you CPO it the dealer can make enough money off the CPO warranty to satisfy them.

We still have a Q5 and I still like Audi cars but will never lease one again. To be clear, this is specific to FL not nationwide. In most other places the buyout should be simple like other manufacturers.

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[jzinckgra]

Dealer markup on buying out at lease aught to be a crime. Isnt the Audi contract stating the residual in full force?

[VenturiRS]

Offtopic, dumb question, can I CPO my car? I bought it used, it's still in warranty time and miles.

[s14roller]

Offtopic, dumb question, can I CPO my car? I bought it used, it's still in warranty time and miles.

I don't know the answer, but if they are willing to do it, you can be sure they have done the math and the stats would heavily in their favor.

[brinboston]

I didn't realize this when I purchased my CPO but if you're still within the original 4yr/50k warranty, you can purchase an aftermarket warranty (different levels all the way up to the most comprehensive exclusionary warranty). Below are the quotes for my 2013 if I were to purchase BEFORE 25k miles (if your car is higher mileage it'll probably be more expensive). Note that the mileage numbers below are IN ADDITION, not total.

Fidelity Platinum w/ $100 deductible
3 yr / 36K - $2406.00
4 yr / 48K - $3061.00
5 yr / 60K - $3644.00
5 yr / 75K - $4331.00
5 yr / 100K - $4639.00
6 yr / 72K - $4170.00

Platinum*w/ $250 deductible
3 yr / 36K - $1925.00
4 yr / 48K - $2401.00
5 yr / 60K - $2760.00
5 yr / 75K - $3451.00
5 yr / 100K - $3792.00
6 yr / 72K - $3426.00

[RickFLS4]

Dealer markup on buying out at lease aught to be a crime. Isnt the Audi contract stating the residual in full force?

That's what I told AFS and they responded that they can't legally sell the car in the state of FL.

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[RickFLS4]

I didn't realize this when I purchased my CPO but if you're still within the original 4yr/50k warranty, you can purchase an aftermarket warranty (different levels all the way up to the most comprehensive exclusionary warranty). Below are the quotes for my 2013 if I were to purchase BEFORE 25k miles (if your car is higher mileage it'll probably be more expensive). Note that the mileage numbers below are IN ADDITION, not total.

Fidelity Platinum w/ $100 deductible
3 yr / 36K - $2406.00
4 yr / 48K - $3061.00
5 yr / 60K - $3644.00
5 yr / 75K - $4331.00
5 yr / 100K - $4639.00
6 yr / 72K - $4170.00

Platinum*w/ $250 deductible
3 yr / 36K - $1925.00
4 yr / 48K - $2401.00
5 yr / 60K - $2760.00
5 yr / 75K - $3451.00
5 yr / 100K - $3792.00
6 yr / 72K - $3426.00

Are the quotes from the dealer or FD Warranty?


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