hologram removal

[miked1978]

Had some body work done to my new 2015 A5 - Brillant Black. Now holograms down the whole passenger side. Do I need to go two stage to get them out or will a finer grit polisher work? Paint looks great in the dark. Sun/lights are the enemy. I dont have a buffer or supplies so I suppose I get to purchase everything I'll need... or pay the 800 bucks to get it profesionally corrected. I've been reading through this forum and see a lot of advice... too much to make sense of. This really pisses me off I even have to deal with it.

[JWreck]

Not the answer you want to hear, but why not make the shop liable for the damage? It should be easy to show how the paint SHOULD look versus how it looks after them completing the work.

But in response to your question, I doubt there's anyone here that could tell you how aggressive you need to be without looking at the paint. I just corrected dealer installed buffer trails and holograms, and I did use compound and polish (meguiars). The polish wasn't enough to take it all out in some spots. My guess is they went it in a 6" + rotary and didn't take their time at all - I've seen them do that, just swiping up and down all over the paint in quick motions at full buffer speed.

[miked1978]

I sent it back for the correction when I tried to pick it up the first time. They just loaded it up with Wax to get it past my inspection and after 2 months, I'm back in the holograms. I'd be more inclined to bring them the bill for the professional correction from a place that is clearly more suited for the work.

After thinking more, I'm going to give it a shot. Plan is pick up the porter cable DA polisher, Meg M205 finishing polish, and a menzerna or nanoskin sealant. wont hurt to start with this on a section to see if it cuts enough. If I need to get meg M105, I can. Hate to practice and learn this skill on black audi paint, but what the heck. I've tackled far more complex projects than this and its an excuse to drink beer in the garage.

[miked1978]

What I'm working with. Brilliant Black with custom pearl effect


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[Avus RS4]

Holograms are actually easy to fix with an orbital buffer.
Some fine polish and an orange pad should do.

The holograms are the result of the body shop running a high speed buffer on an angle.
Running the buffer flat up against the panels with a black foam pad should fix the problem.

[miked1978]

Holograms are actually easy to fix with an orbital buffer.
Some fine polish and an orange pad should do.

The holograms are the result of the body shop running a high speed buffer on an angle.
Running the buffer flat up against the panels with a black foam pad should fix the problem.

so orange pad or black pad with the Meg M205? Which pad with with sealant?

[Avus RS4]

so orange pad or black pad with the Meg M205? Which pad with with sealant?

With a high speed buffer, you would need to use the black pad, if using an orbital, use the orange pad. (Polishing pad)
As for sealants, do you have one now, or are you looking for suggestions?

[miked1978]

i put my order in at amazon today for the porter cable DA buffer, M105, M205, Menzerna PL+ sealant, and pads... white, orange, grey, and red.

[Avus RS4]

I could've recommended a different orbital, hopefully you've ordered the PC-7424XP
The PC is not that bad for a beginner and it has a short learning curve. I still got mine that I've used for many years and it's still kicking (PC7424)
You should be alright though.
Start with the M205 and the orange pad first to see what kind of results you get, and post any questions you may have, there are a lot of guys here that can help you answering all of your questions as well...

[miked1978]

yep - thats the orbital I got. Everything I read said it was safe and powerful enough... and its referenced a million times in the how-to videos on youtube.

Appreciate the guidance.

[pdqgp]

What I'm working with. Brilliant Black with custom pearl effect

Looks like the dealer guy had poor technique with a rotary. Not surprised.

Good news is it's easy to fix. Use your PC 7424 with a white pad and any good polish. I personally would recommend Menzerma SF4000 or the newer improved version SF3500 and a white pad. It's a much finer grade of polish and the light cutting action of a white pad is all you need for the above. I just did the hood of my car as it looked like someone set their bag on it as they opened their door and then pulled it across my hood and it turned out great.

I really like Menzerma as it was developed with nano technology for use on MBZ Ceramic paints and works well on Audi and BMW's too. No need at all in this case to use a more intrusive method.

Here it is on my Brilliant Black S4

[miked1978]

^^ appreciate the info. hood looks like glass. nice job.

[CLEANA3]

That's a great combo right there. Been using the 845 for some time and that stuff makes my higher end stuff cry.

[miked1978]

So finished my day of work. Never touched the 105, just used 205 on white and orange pad. After test, white and 205 wiped the holograms away with little effort. So I'll say I'm 75% there. Problem is, I paid so much attention to details with lights and close looks I know all the imperfections. Some I never would have noticed.

Lessons learned: let the products do the work. Pressure on the buffer doesn't mean pressure side to side or up and down. Has to be constant. Like they say in golf, let the club do the work. The microfiber towels I used wiped new swirls as fast as I removed them when I tried to buff out the final marks I could see under the light. It's frustrating. Like building a sand castle.... Work your ass off and one wrong wave fucks it up.

To the pros that do this every day, whatever you charge is not enough. It's worth every penny. Hard slow tedious work that sometimes requires re-do.

End of the day I'm mostly satisfied. Except for the pollen that is apparently permanently embedded under the menzerna sealer. I could take a picture of a shiny black hood, but it won't show the marks I know are there.


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[miked1978]

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[Avus RS4]

So finished my day of work. Never touched the 105, just used 205 on white and orange pad. After test, white and 205 wiped the holograms away with little effort. So I'll say I'm 75% there. Problem is, I paid so much attention to details with lights and close looks I know all the imperfections. Some I never would have noticed.

Lessons learned: let the products do the work. Pressure on the buffer doesn't mean pressure side to side or up and down. Has to be constant. Like they say in golf, let the club do the work. The microfiber towels I used wiped new swirls as fast as I removed them when I tried to buff out the final marks I could see under the light. It's frustrating. Like building a sand castle.... Work your ass off and one wrong wave fucks it up.

To the pros that do this every day, whatever you charge is not enough. It's worth every penny. Hard slow tedious work that sometimes requires re-do.

End of the day I'm mostly satisfied. Except for the pollen that is apparently permanently embedded under the menzerna sealer. I could take a picture of a shiny black hood, but it won't show the marks I know are there.


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I think you have a good grasp of what you're doing.
If I may give you a little hint, let the polish do its work, don't wipe it off before it's ready.
Just work an area with your buffer and polish, until the polish starts to almost disappear like when it becomes translucent generally in the 3 minutes range for the M205 less time with the M105.
If you're having a hard time removing it it's because you didn't work it in long enough...

[miked1978]

Ok... Good advice. I used the 4-5 pass method with cross hatch motion. Each time I shut off polisher and lifted, there was a lot of polish left in a clump. I had two towels, one to get the mass of polish and other to wipe clean. And I was only using three drops on pad each pass.


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[miked1978]

Not pass... Round.


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[Dad A3]

Ive been following this thread for a while, but wanted to wait to reply until I finished the car.

Background: I bought a brilliant black CPO 2012 A3 in 2013. The previous owner was the mother of a small child, who placed and dragged the baby bag across the roof every time she removed the child.
I mentioned to the sales rep that the condition of the paint was a deal breaker, he sent it to the body shop and after half a day it looked fine,but not for long swirl marks and scratches reappeared. I went to see Phil at DD and after looking at the car, he suggested Mequiars 100 and 205 with microfiber cutting and polishing pads as well as the uber green finishing pad.
My first attempt with the 100, I used way to much product and wasn't impressed. I redid the application with less product and allowed the 100 to do it's job. I used the Griot's 6" Random orbital. the results were incredible. I followed up with the 205 and microfiber polishing pad and did a final with the 205 and green finishing pad. It is a different car.

Like you Mike after all is said and done, once I hit it with the lights I see every imperfection, I'm not going to OCD about them just concentrate on them over time.
BTW the entire process on the A3 was about 3 days with one of them getting all the polish dust out of all the crevices.
Thanks to PDQGP, car looks insane and to Avus for the information.

Great thread. I'll post photo when the sun comes out.

[miked1978]

day 5 since my correction/sealer. just a little pollen but the car looks freaking amazing. In real life I'm not noticing any of the holograns, swirls or scratches that I obsessed over in the garage under the lights. guess you could say Ive had a chance to take some deep breaths, come to the realization its part of owning a black car, and get back to enjoying the ride! My efforts were worth it in my opinion and I think I made the right call tackling it myself.

[pdqgp]

Thanks to PDQGP, car looks insane and to Avus for the information.

Thanks. Not the best shots but after a couple after a clean up post-summer wheel installation as I'm now officially done with winter.





One of the KEY areas of no marring black is in the drying process. Blot dry,don't wipe dry and use a drying agent/detail mist.

[CLEANA3]

Looks really good. When black is clean boy it's nice. Great job

[Antekaudi]

If you had the work done via insurance, you can definitely push them to cover paint correction as well.

Same exact thing happen to my friend and typically buffing/polishing with that level of detail is not included in the quote for the repair job.

If you are willing to fix it by yourself you can go ahead and use any fine polish such as the one recommended above (m205) with a polishing pad(typically white) and orbital buffer such as porter cable, griots, meguairs etc.

EDIT: I just realized you have already corrected the problem. Good job

[miked1978]

have to share - found a great combo for Brilliant Black regular washings. adams detail spry as a drying lube and C.A.R. bulletproof topper as a second protecive coat. pure glass with no need for elbow grease.

[DaveyDave424]

Here it is on my Brilliant Black S4

[/QUOTE]




Very nice. I also have clear film on a portion of my hood. Are you still able to run a DA machine over it ?

[miked1978]

anyone ever notice a brownish hue to a perfectly clean and polished car (brilliant black) when its in direct sun? I believe my powerlock+ is still in good shape, and I use adams detail spray, and some CAR products TOPPER almost weekly.... is it possible to get too much protective layer? I can practically just hose off the car and its clean, but the brown reflection is a bit perplexing. Gloss is as deep and wet as can be, and usually black. I'll try to snap a pic, but I doubt it can be captured it with an Iphone.

[pdqgp]

Very nice. I also have clear film on a portion of my hood. Are you still able to run a DA machine over it ?

check the manufacturer of your clear bra. mine is Premium Shield's Elite Series which has a clear-coat layer. the key is to use only a jeweling wax and not much pressure. really no need need nor ability to "polish" it but what jeweling waxes like McKee's 37's product does is clean road film, etc. along with providing an ultra fine nano polish to enhance the gloss. works great.

anyone ever notice a brownish hue to a perfectly clean and polished car (brilliant black) when its in direct sun? I believe my powerlock+ is still in good shape, and I use adams detail spray, and some CAR products TOPPER almost weekly.... is it possible to get too much protective layer? I can practically just hose off the car and its clean, but the brown reflection is a bit perplexing. Gloss is as deep and wet as can be, and usually black. I'll try to snap a pic, but I doubt it can be captured it with an Iphone.

Have not seen that on mine. It's pure black and clear. Use a light to see through the clear and if you're seeing nothing but a pure black reflection vs swirls or road grime.

[pilot1981]

I used also M105 and M205 manually...wonderful result!
Thanks for suggestions