Fabspeed 4.2 V8 (Tiptronic) tune review

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I've been meaning to do a write-up on this tune for a while, but just haven't had the time.

Having said that, I've decided that the S4 community could really benefit from knowing about this tune as it has totally transformed my S4 from a car that I liked driving, to one that I LOVE driving

Before I begin, I want to lay out one simple ground rule. though... NO FANBOYS!!! I know from looking though B6 S4 tuning threads that there is a contingent on AZ who thinks that there is only one tune worth getting and that no one else knows how to tune a N/A Audi engine. The simple fact is, the B6 engine is an engine. It obeys the same laws of physics, space, time, God and nature as every other suck, bang, blow air pump and it can be tuned just the same as any other engine. Yes, some 4.2 tunes are better than others, but despite the Kool-Aid that some have been drinking around here, there ARE other tuners who can also make a great tune for this engine.

Also , I want to make it clear that I do not in any way, stand to profit from this review. It is strictly a review of my experiences with Fabspeed and a thanks for the assistance that Steve has so graciously offered me over the last 3-4 months.

Now, onto the good stuff

After my initial disappointment with an absolute garbage V6 3.0 tune I had bought for $425 from a 'reputable' and well known tuning company (not JHM though). and frustrated with the lack of transparancy from any other alternative tuning solution, I decided to delve into Motronic about 6-8 months ago with the intent of tuning my V6 myself. So, armed with Winols and a raw hex dump, I started the task of teaching myself Motronic tuning basics and developing a V6 definition file. This blew up into a full fledged obsession (says my girlfriend lol).

However, after hundreds and hundreds of hours of researching, looking through binaries, collecting logging data and writing dozens and dozens of file revisions, etc... I actually ended up making some pretty good headway, developing a DAMOS and a reasonably good tune for the 3.0 V6, as well as a DAMOS for the B6 S4. I've posted both on nefmoto.com for anyone who wants to use them http://nefariousmotorsports.com/foru...c=8764.0title= (V6 3.0 DAMOS AND TUNE) and http://nefariousmotorsports.com/foru...79329#msg79329 (V8 B6 560G 4.2 DAMOS). (I also started making up a DAMOS for a 2008 Touareg if anyone wants it http://nefariousmotorsports.com/foru...c=9844.0title=)


While on Nefmoto, I was fortunate enough to make the acquaintance of a fellow named Steve. Steve was kind enough to shoot me his number and quite candidly provided me with some incredibly useful tips with respect to Motronic tuning.

At this point, I had no idea what Steve did for a living, and he casually remarked that he had recently been tuning a new Ferrari and would be working on a McLaren tune in the next little bit....

[RECORD SCRATCH!!!!]

WHAT!!!!???

Yes, as it turns out, Steve is associated with good folks at Fabspeed and has been doing their tuning. Let me tell you, he is a damn good tuner. His credentials include tuning all manners of Porsches, Ferraris, high end Audis like the R8's etc... Seriously, I felt like I was talking to the Yoda of Motronic lol. This guy knows his stuff inside out, backwards, forwards, sideways and a couple other dimensions that I have only seen after eating Scooby-Doo pieces of blotter paper.

Also, I'd like to point out that unlike most of the canned tunes out there where a tuner either buys the tune from someone, or pays a calibrator to make the tune for them, Steve can actually make a custom tune for whatever hardware you want.

91 Craptane? fine, 110 Octane race gas? fine, headers? fine, want more aggressive throttle response? fine, etc....


Anyway I mention that I had recently bought a B6 S4 and was thinking of tuning that myself as well. However, at that time, my tune for my V6 was still well into it's infancy and I was reluctant to dive into tuning a car with a $5000 unobtanium engine in it. So after a bit of discussion, Steve gives me an offer I can't refuse, "send me your file and I'll have a look at it".

20-30 minutes later, I get a binary in my email, I flash it to my ECU and start the car. THIS IS IMPORTANT: notice that I didn't need to give up my car for 2 days, pay to ship my ECU or buy some $150+ goofy encrypted flashing cable. Steve actually just sent me a .bin that I could flash myself!!!


Now I should say at this point, my expectations weren't that high based on what I've heard from other people who have had a stock S4 reflashed. But let me tell you, IT MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!!! Especially on the Tiptronic cars.

The car felt way smoother, throttle response was much improved, it downshifted when I asked it to, and felt stronger on the top end to boot. Honestly, it was well worth the price of admission and I'm glad I didn't wait to get downpipes before getting a decent tune.

What I feel is often overlooked in the Audi community are the realities of tiptronic transmission behavior. In their stock forms, Audi automatic transmissions are lazy, requiring large amounts of throttle input to summon downshifts and quick transient movements. Yes, you can get the same effect as a remapped throttle curve by stepping harder on the stock throttle, but the reality is, in everyday driving, you only have a limited time to react to traffic.

There's also the issue of the fact that from 1000-2000 RPM, the torque converter on the 6HP-19 is designed to slip, which results in that smooth, slushbox feeling that Audis are plagued with from the factory.

This tune does away with all of that. Imagine two fighters circling each other. Both are equally matched, but one has his fists up and at the ready, just waiting to strike, the other, is dancing around with his hands dangling at his sides and his pants around his ankles when the bell rings, who do you think is going to win...?

What I also really want to emphasize about all this is how candid and open Steve was about what he did to the file. This is a very sharp contrast to 99% of the other tuning operations who won't tell you a damn thing to justify your spending $500+ of your hard earned dollars. Rather, you get the same old "oh, it's proprietary, I can't tell you why ours is so much better than the competition, but trust me, just fork over your cash without question you'll love it"...

Well, since Steve provided me with the base calibrations, I decided to do some tweaking of my own and I've been sharing that info with Steve over the last 3-4 months to further refine the file and see if there were some more areas where we could make some gains.

What I'm particularly proud of is that I've worked out all the cam phasing maps and I've been experimenting with optimizing them. I've also worked out a really nice, aggressive (but still tractable) set of throttle maps to compliment the new cam phasing.

I can say for sure that proper cam phasing makes a significant difference in airflow though.

Here's some overlays of different cam phasing strategies. The "old" timing is similar to the stock phasing minus the little zig-zag at around 4400 RPM, the "new" timing is the phasing strategy that I developed for this tune. Note that there's a definite gain above 5000 RPM and trust me, you can feel it!

This is also on the stock cats, I suspect those with downpipes may see even better gains.


Now, do other tuners alter the cam phasing, who knows? Apparently these questions are akin to State secrets [roll eyes]. That said, if some of the other tuners actually want to start talking about what calibrations they've changed, I'm all ears......

Alternatively, if anyone has some log data from another 4.2 V8 tune, please PM me the .CSV file and I can look at it. I'd love to see what's really been changed on the other 4.2 tunes.

Anwyay, I'll add to this thread as it goes along. However I at least wanted to send a shout out to Steve and let you know that if you're looking for a great tuner, who can make a solid/custom tune for any audi, (S4, RS4 R8, B8 S4, etc...) at a reasonable price, that doesn't require all sorts of hassle and downtime, give Fabspeed a call and see what they can do for you.

[pwest15]

See now this is a thread with substance. I wonder how much of the amazing driving experience is caused by the transmission tune making shifts more precise and snappy as well as the tune increasing throttle response as opposed to the tune actually creating more power. It'd be cool to see a before and after dyno graph or something. Any thoughts of taking it to one or the drag strip or just enjoying it as a driving car? Regardless, it's great to see another enthusiast falling back in love with their car!

[A4Maine-iac]

Great info and read

[Lucca M]

awesome review thanks for the info! when my car was still a tiptronic i hated it and was looking for tune but back then there was none.


now, lets bring on the JHM Militia

[ZimbutheMonkey]

See now this is a thread with substance. I wonder how much of the amazing driving experience is caused by the transmission tune making shifts more precise and snappy as well as the tune increasing throttle response as opposed to the tune actually creating more power. It'd be cool to see a before and after dyno graph or something. Any thoughts of taking it to one or the drag strip or just enjoying it as a driving car? Regardless, it's great to see another enthusiast falling back in love with their car!

thanks guys I'm glad this review is of assistance. I wasn't sure how it would be received based on my reading of past AZ B6 S4 tuning threads. That's why as you mentioned, I tried to put some substantive elements into it instead of the usual 'butt dyno' impressions with no other explanation of why it feels improved.

As for your comment as to where the improvements come from. I'd say that it's a mixed bag.

Some of the improvement definitely comes from the restructuring of the torque requests and delivery. However, I would say that there has to be a net gain in power as well. Obviously, there is some power made from advancing the timing. However, you can't really add a lot that way in the full load areas as these engines are very knock prone and sensitive as it stands. So most of the timing gains are in the areas where you would be tipping in the throttle during transient conditions.

I do think that power gains were made from fueling though. If you look at my DAMOS, you can see that the stock fueling is really, really lean (like 13.5:1-13:1) in the peak load areas. Richening up the fuel to 12.5:1 under load I'm sure helps in that you don't loose as much timing with the tune.

Finally, as the graph I posted indicates, it looks like there are some noticeable airflow gains from altering the cam timing. If you take a rough estimate of the 10g/sec gained and divide by 0.8, that equates to roughly 12 CHP or so worth of airflow.

If I had to make a guess, I would say that the tune probably gives a solid 15-20 CHP/CTq or so worth of absolute gains. Plus whatever torque gains that would normally be held back by the stock torque structuring.

One thing to add with respect to the throttle/shifting strategy. What people seem to forget is that with a naturally aspirated engine, throttle response IS what makes or breaks these engines. You'll never have the same gains that you'll see on a turbocharged engine. However, getting a crisp and instant response to throttle inputs is really why people buy a N/A engine in the first place. You know what I mean?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

awesome review thanks for the info! when my car was still a tiptronic i hated it and was looking for tune but back then there was none.


now, lets bring on the JHM Militia

Lol, hopefully that won't need to happen, but it may...

I don't know where that viewpoint really developed though. I'm not saying that JHM's tune is necessarily inferior. I'm sure that it's a solid product as there are a number of satisfied clients and it looks like they put some thought into making it. The issue for me though, is that JHM refuses to discuss exactly what they did.

For example, cam timing. I have no idea if they addressed it with their 4.2 file. What I do know from logs posted from another person with their V6 3.0 file is they didn't appear to have made any real changes to the cam phasing on that platform.

Here's a picture of a log from a JHM tuned V6 and V6 with the stock cam phasing values ****NOTE, the exhaust cam phasing values between the two are the same, the JHM exhaust timing is scaled on the secondary axis (the V6 exhaust camshafts are limited to 22 degrees rotation by physical design), so the exhaust cam timing values between the two graphs are actually equivalent***

JHM


Stock


Now, this isn't to say that JHM didn't change the cam timing on the V8, but it makes me wonder if they did. If anyone with a JHM tuned V8 wants to post some logs of their file, please do so. I would love to comapre notes. Or, maybe JHM would finally be willing to comment on what makes their file so unique. However, at this point, I hate to say that it seems like what makes JHM's tune so 'unique' is that no one knows what they actually did lol.

[pwest15]

thanks guys I'm glad this review is of assistance. I wasn't sure how it would be received based on my reading of past AZ B6 S4 tuning threads. That's why as you mentioned, I tried to put some substantive elements into it instead of the usual 'butt dyno' impressions with no other explanation of why it feels improved.

As for your comment as to where the improvements come from. I'd say that it's a mixed bag.

Some of the improvement definitely comes from the restructuring of the torque requests and delivery. However, I would say that there has to be a net gain in power as well. Obviously, there is some power made from advancing the timing. However, you can't really add a lot that way in the full load areas as these engines are very knock prone and sensitive as it stands. So most of the timing gains are in the areas where you would be tipping in the throttle during transient conditions.

I do think that power gains were made from fueling though. If you look at my DAMOS, you can see that the stock fueling is really, really lean (like 13.5:1-13:1) in the peak load areas. Richening up the fuel to 12.5:1 under load I'm sure helps in that you don't loose as much timing with the tune.

Finally, as the graph I posted indicates, it looks like there are some noticeable airflow gains from altering the cam timing. If you take a rough estimate of the 10g/sec gained and divide by 0.8, that equates to roughly 12 CHP or so worth of airflow.

If I had to make a guess, I would say that the tune probably gives a solid 15-20 CHP/CTq or so worth of absolute gains. Plus whatever torque gains that would normally be held back by the stock torque structuring.

One thing to add with respect to the throttle/shifting strategy. What people seem to forget is that with a naturally aspirated engine, throttle response IS what makes or breaks these engines. You'll never have the same gains that you'll see on a turbocharged engine. However, getting a crisp and instant response to throttle inputs is really why people buy a N/A engine in the first place. You know what I mean?

Boy, you and Kurt (CountVohn on audi revolution) could probably have a great long conversation. He's a really good guy. I bet JHM prevents him from spilling too many details about the JHM tune but it'd be cool for you and him to chat about the tuning of these motors. It's pretty cool to see someone getting into the nitty-gritty of tuning these engines and making it public. I commend you for that! I'm really glad you enjoy the tune. So far, I'm very happy with mine and it would take a bit to convince me to switch to something else. I guess I'd have to pull my logs somehow and see what the .csv looks like in comparison. Any word on pricing? I'mm sure Steve did you quite a solid as a friend but if any old guy wanted a tune from him, does he have a flat rate or does it differ by consumer?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Boy, you and Kurt (CountVohn on audi revolution) could probably have a great long conversation. He's a really good guy. I bet JHM prevents him from spilling too many details about the JHM tune but it'd be cool for you and him to chat about the tuning of these motors. It's pretty cool to see someone getting into the nitty-gritty of tuning these engines and making it public. I commend you for that! I'm really glad you enjoy the tune. So far, I'm very happy with mine and it would take a bit to convince me to switch to something else. I guess I'd have to pull my logs somehow and see what the .csv looks like in comparison. Any word on pricing? I'mm sure Steve did you quite a solid as a friend but if any old guy wanted a tune from him, does he have a flat rate or does it differ by consumer?

Yeah, from what I've heard, Kurt is very knowledgeable and your impression of him seems to be consistent with what I've heard from others (i.e. he's a good guy). If you happen to have his contact info please feel free to pass it on to me.

With respect to making information public, I'm happy to be able to contribute to the Audi community at large. Like most of the members on Nefmoto, I'm sick and tired of the unnecessary secrecy surrounding Motronic tuning. I feel that it's held back these platforms as there are a number of very active enthusiasts who, given the chance, may have some valuable insights and/or ideas. However, when information is intentionally withheld, it stifles this process.

If you do have any logs, I'd love to see them. I can always plug the data into EFI analytics Mega Log Viewer (incredible bit of software) and compare the values. What logging software are you using? I highly, highly, highly recommend the ME7logger software that you can download for free on Nefmoto.com

To give you an idea of it's value, whenever I go out and log, I'm logging about 125 variables at 30 samples a second. This is incredibly useful in that even if I don't need a particular data stream at the time, if I come upon a table or map later on, I can always pull the data retroactively and get a sense of what the engine was (or is) doing at the time.

I'll PM you my email address if you want to send your old logs off to me.

[Brettannica]

What an insightful and very interesting read. Cheers Zim.

I know that the JHM tune did alter the characteristics of my beloved Tip making it a far more enjoyable ride. I’m a big supporter of the boys there and all they have/are doing for our platform.

I’m now curious as to how much further it could have been taken especially in regards to the cam timing.

Interesting to see if anyone is game to reflash their JHM ECU with a FABSPEED one and compare Dyno and 1/4 mile data.

Just now waiting to see when the full release of JHM's TCU tune unicorn will occur (god knows how I’m going to get a hold of that here in Australia).

[EUROSWAGR]

So you're sick and tired of other people or companies protecting their IP? JHM probably revised their 4.2l tune hundreds of times, now you just want to peak over their shoulder? funny

I find the world of ECU calibration fascinating, I've read a few books, probably dozens of web guides and for people to do it as a hobby or for their own interest is great. The problem is for every 5 people that do that, 10 try and start a side business remote tuning and usually the are using files copied or basically stolen from other tuners. I'm not going to get in a huge war or argument over this because I've seen every excuse for "sharing information."

Just last week I was reading some posts on HPtuners, sure it's software you have to pay for and you need to buy credits..blah blah blah but you can basically copy any file off your ECU. A member thought it was ok to copy an actual tuning company's file, make a few changes and then basically call that file his own. I have a huge problem with that mentality and these are the same guys that start tuning on the side for cash..this is one reason why the B5 S4 platform sucks so bad now. A kid with a laptop and the internet can sit in their mom's basement and screw up someones car with no consequences and some people are actually paying them.

The JHM tune is the only tune that showed true acceleration gains..most companies tried to compete, but the results were very poor. I'm sure you made you car a little more fun to drive, but we will probably never get a true comparison if you actually added performance. Maybe you could find a JHM tuned TIP near by to do a nice side by side for AZ and the people interested in your self-tuning endeavor.

[FastEddie]

Actually i would be interested to see video from a go pro in your cabin showing the shifting and how much faster it is.

[UberTeile]

"Steve" is an old friend and an all-around terrific human being...

Seriously, I felt like I was talking to the Yoda of Motronic lol.

I Lol'd @ this...although it's very accurate.

We took a vigorous ride up Duryea Dr. on Sat. night...here's some pics.


...and the $$ shot.

[AwesomeSteve]

hey look - my b8 s4! ;)

[pwest15]

hey look - my b8 s4! ;)

Ha! I guess OP was right! You, Steve, must be pretty awesome if your UN is AwesomeSteve!

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So you're sick and tired of other people or companies protecting their IP? JHM probably revised their 4.2l tune hundreds of times, now you just want to peak over their shoulder? funny

Go back and actually READ what I wrote. What I want is for tuning companies to actually justify to the consumer why their tune is worth the money. Provide me a detailed example of how disclosing IN GENERAL, that a particular map area has been recalibrated puts a tuner at a disadvantage.

If JHM had told me that they re-calibrated the cam timing, how would that prejudice them from an IP standpoint? It gives me no idea HOW they did it. Just that it was done.

Again, you brought forward the argument that this type of disclosure hurts the tuning industry, yet you failed to provide any example to buttress your submission. (typical flawed forum argument BTW). So, if your argument is to stand, the onus is on you to provide evidence or draw an analogy to support your submission, so please do....

I find the world of ECU calibration fascinating, I've read a few books, probably dozens of web guides and for people to do it as a hobby or for their own interest is great. The problem is for every 5 people that do that, 10 try and start a side business remote tuning and usually the are using files copied or basically stolen from other tuners. I'm not going to get in a huge war or argument over this because I've seen every excuse for "sharing information."

Again, please support with some sort of evidence. I could very easily rebut this by claiming that many of the "reputable" tuners are all using ripped off versions of other people's tunes (and I have seen posts to this effect). Now, not to say that my rebuttal is any more valid as I have not provided quotes to back it up either. However the point is that without any evidence to back it up, your claim is just that, a claim.

Just last week I was reading some posts on HPtuners, sure it's software you have to pay for and you need to buy credits..blah blah blah but you can basically copy any file off your ECU. A member thought it was ok to copy an actual tuning company's file, make a few changes and then basically call that file his own. I have a huge problem with that mentality and these are the same guys that start tuning on the side for cash..this is one reason why the B5 S4 platform sucks so bad now. A kid with a laptop and the internet can sit in their mom's basement and screw up someones car with no consequences and some people are actually paying them.

Yawn.... same thing, please provide examples or evidence of how the B5 platform has been ruined by "kids with laptops in their mom's basements"

The JHM tune is the only tune that showed true acceleration gains..most companies tried to compete, but the results were very poor. I'm sure you made you car a little more fun to drive, but we will probably never get a true comparison if you actually added performance. Maybe you could find a JHM tuned TIP near by to do a nice side by side for AZ and the people interested in your self-tuning endeavor.

Sigh.... really....? Please show me the evidence of how much faster a B6 S4 (with stock exhaust) JHM tuned vehicle is than a competing file. I've reviewed just about every thread on JHM tunes and there has never been a comparison between a stock ECU and JHM tuned ECU B6 S4's with stock downpipes. Again, if you have evidence, please produce it.

Finally, if you happen to know of a JHM tuned B6 S4 tiptronic Cabrio with a stock exhaust in Edmonton, please provide me with their username. I'd love to actually see the difference.

To sum up, your response is typical of many naysayers on the forums. You start with a statement, neglect to add any backing evidence and/or an analogy to support it and then declare your statement a fait accompli, as a lawyer this kind of flawed argument grates on me to no end as it would be absolutely shredded in Court as it has no basis in logic and/or fact.

So, if you want me to spend any more of my time responding, please revisit your statements and adjust them as I have outlined.

Thank you

[Axel-]

Hmmm, you haven't demonstrated any evidence of performance gains yourself even though you've claimed as much. Not saying you didn't have any, just saying you've provided zero evidence either even though you claim to live by evidence alone.

Just pointing it out.

Glad to see people are still working on the platform though.

Just quoting what you wrote "trust me, you can feel it!" and "If I had to make a guess, I would say that the tune probably gives a solid 15-20 CHP/CTq or so worth of absolute gains."

[ZimbutheMonkey]

Hmmm, you haven't demonstrated any evidence of performance gains yourself even though you've claimed as much. Not saying you didn't have any, just saying you've provided zero evidence either even though you claim to live by evidence alone.

Just pointing it out.

Glad to see people are still working on the platform though.

Just quoting what you wrote "trust me, you can feel it!" and "If I had to make a guess, I would say that the tune probably gives a solid 15-20 CHP/CTq or so worth of absolute gains."

No sweat

See, what you did was address your question in a civil tone and I'll respond in kind.

I'll preface this by reminding readers of this thread that this really isn't about what I've done. Steve is the one doing the tuning. I'm simply offering him feedback. He's the one who makes a living tuning exotics that 99.9% of us will never even drive lol

On that note, perhaps there is some confusion as to why I made reference to the work I've been doing. It's a throwback to old trial habits. If you have someone offering testimony, you need to establish that they have a certain level of knowledge with respect to the testimony that they're offering. Put another way, I wanted to make it clear that the opinion I was offering wasn't simply pure unfounded speculation from someone who had no idea what they were talking about.

Now, with respect to your comments though, first I'll point out that I didn't say that EUROSWAGGER required a purely factual base to make his claim. I specifically said "So, if your argument is to stand, the onus is on you to provide evidence or draw an analogy to support your submission"

I understand that there are valid points which aren't readily made by way of physical evidence. For example, the feel of the vehicle after restructuring the KFMIRL and KFMOIP tables. However, I did provide an analogy (the fighter with his fists cocked and the other with his hands dangling) and an explanation of why it worked (by getting the tip transmission out of it's 0-2000 RPM TC slip mode and into lock-up).

With respect to physical evidence, I offered an explanation of the cam timing strategy that I've been pursuing and posted the differences I've noted in the MAF flow.


I should also note that I've seen exactly the same phenomenon with the 3.0 V6. Same heads, and very similar compression. The 'stock' line is the best MAF reading I could find in all the logging I've done. Again, the gains are very similar and proportional to the V8

NOTE: I didn't make a big deal of it, but when I say that I've easily spent 500+ hours figuring this stuff out (researching, developing the definition files, tweaking the calibrations, examining the log data etc.... it's a VERY conservative estimate. I've easily been through 30-40 revisions for each of the V6 and V8 files and I literally have hundreds of logging sessions that I've examined with a fine tooth comb. It's kind of a problem with the way my head's wired. When I get into something, I will spend every spare second of my spare time (and some time that I don't have lol) studying it down to the nth degree until I've mastered it

Next, you'll note that didn't make any representations with respect to numerical gains in my initial writeup. When I provided the 15-20 CHP estimate, I did so in response to someone's question. Note that, again, I offered an explanation as to why I thought that estimate was reasonable (dropping the lambda to a reasonable 12.5:1 instead of 13.5:1 under full load on a 11:1 compression engine, timing increase, and the noted MAF gains, etc...).

I'd say that this is far more information than any other tuner has offered with respect to why their tune works is it not? By way of example, my comments on the cam phasing. I've scoured the internet for information on how cam phasing affects Audi N/A engines and I haven't come across a shred of data. I can't imagine that I'm the first to try, but so far I'm the only one that I know of to post any findings with respect to calibrating it.

Finally, a 15-20 CHP gain on an engine rated at 340 CHP is only a 5-7% increase. I think that's a perfectly reasonable (and conservative) estimate based on the evidence and explanations I've provided is it not?

If you disagree, I'm always open to hear a well thought out counterpoint. However, I at least wanted to provide a summary of my reasoning. Hope this suffices

PS: Great work on your ride it's always nice to see a fellow Canuck with a unique Audi on the forums.

[FastEddie]

? no response to taking a video?

[dsgray16]

Couple things..

Why does it seem in one long winded post, your trying to innocently promote a tune you are happy with, and nicely asking people not to fanboy JHM.. And then in the next, you are pretty openly baiting anybody who likes JHM to come after you for bashing? It's like you are saying one thing, but actually hoping to provoke just that reaction.

Second, why are you putting so much effort into tuning, but still running stock exhaust and down pipes? It's pretty widely accepted that these items are the biggest limiting factors on the S4.

Lastly, you keep mentioning the tip shifting faster.. Did Steve also remove the TCU, and tune that? Otherwise I'm not sure how that would happen. I'll also add that I ran the JHM 93 tune on my S4 tip, and it did make a world of difference in S mode. But it didn't actually decrease shift time. Just want to clarify what we are talking about here.

All in all, totally on board with the idea of using a small independent tuner, so long as they are doing their own work, and they really know what they are doing.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

1) After reading my posts again, I could see how you might come to that conclusion. So thank you for allowing me to clarify before this thread goes South. My issue with the JHM fanboyism is that a lot of it seems to be based on a couple of track slips of what I can assure you is a top shape S4 with just about every bolt on that JHM could throw at it. So how much of that car's results are because of the tune itself?

As I've indicated, I've spent hundreds of hours picking apart the B6 ECU and I know it's maps like the back of my hand by now. With that said, the simple fact is, with a N/A engine, there aren't really many (if any) calibration areas that are going to give you a massive advantage against a competitor. At least not to the extent that the JHM faithful are claiming in many threads. The only one that I've changed that's had any significant effect is the cam timing, both on the V6 and the V8. However, based on logs that I've seen of their V6 tune, I know for fact that they didn't touch them on that file. So I have no reason to believe that they did on the V8 either. That's why I would really like to see some logs, because if they left them stock, then there's definitely power being left on the table.

There are some areas i.e. the maps responsible for where injection starts that might be tweaked to some good effect, say if you're altered the the cam timing. However, most of these areas wouldn't give a huge gain at WOT when the injector is basically dumping fuel, again, I'm referring to the WOT difference that people claim with this tune.

So if I appear a little bit hostile towards the JHM fanboys it's because they back the product to the point of completely (and you would have to agree, very vocally) discounting any other tuning option, but in my opinion, they do so without knowing WHY, and JHM hasn't given any indication as to why either.

Just to reiterate my other point as well. I'm not saying that the JHM tune is any worse or better. what I am saying is that I don't think it's the ONLY worthwhile calibration setup for more power out of a 4.2 or 3.0. I know JHM has a very faithful following and I commend that in principle, but it's much like my views on Religions, having something to place your faith in is great, just don't use that as a reason to try and blow things up lol.

Also, as you alluded to in the above post, having some healthy competition among tuners who actually want to write good files for the largely neglected N/A Audi engines benefits us all, wouldn't you agree?

I also want to dispel the idea that I'm somehow trying to steal JHM's 'secret sauce'. I think between my posting up my own tune for the V6, all my DAMOS work and talking openly about my findings, especially with respect to the cam timing, that I don't have any sinister alterior motives. The only reason that I haven't openly posted the V8 tune is because Steve was kind enough to provide me a base to start with and I wouldn't feel right posting up something that wasn't 100% scratch made by myself (although the tune I have now is likely different enough to honestly qualify as legitimately my own). That said, if I can provide Steve with some good feedback for him to massage into a great tune, then everybody wins and I can sit back satisfied that I played a role in it's development (well, that and the fact that I just honestly eat, sleep and breathe this stuff).

Second, I'm putting the effort that I have into tuning because I want to learn. Simple as that, I think it's pretty apparent by what I've posted over on Nefmoto. Plus, I want to see if I can improve on what's available. I've seen many examples of home brewed solutions from passionate enthusiasts that have formed the basis for some pretty cool innovations. That, and I firmly believe in sharing as much info as I can with the community at large. Does anyone seriously believe that all the secrecy about Bosch tuning has done us any favors?

Also, my living arrangements (downtown condo) don't allow for much in the line of wrenching. However, tuning is something that I can do without the garage space I no longer have at the moment.

Finally, I want to be clear, I didn't say that this tune made the car shift any faster. That's squarely a function of the TCU as you said. However, what you CAN do, if you scale things right, is cheat and force the ECU to demand load values that at least get the transmission into lock-up faster. At least there, the car will respond to throttle inputs rather than just slip the TC around like a CVT.

And last but not least, trust me, Steve-O knows his stuff. I'm just trying to do some of the legwork for him and learn a thing or two along the way

[ZimbutheMonkey]

? no response to taking a video?

I can try, but the problem is that without being able to reference what the throttle is doing, it's pretty tough to get a meaningful comparison by just looking at the tach alone.

that said, maybe I can see if I can find some representative footage.

[FastEddie]

You mentioned it was shifting faster by not allowing the clutch to slip. I just wanted to see the difference in the shifting, not necessarily anything else.

[jr1415us]

Can you patch the factory tune to alter catalyst efficiency, to run piggies, or catless downpipes?

[jr1415us]

PM'd you!

[badger.]

Can you patch the factory tune to alter catalyst efficiency, to run piggies, or catless downpipes?

+1

I'd love to code out SAI since I did piggies and the O2 relocate didn't work. But I don't really want to drop $600+ on a full tune just for that.

[Bonz099]

PM Sent

[ZimbutheMonkey]

So I thought I'd post up a little something that Steve-O sent me today. I guess this is his most recent project. Talk about wanting to trade places hahaha

Those of you with a B7 RS4 may want to give the good folks at Fabspeed a shout seeing that the Spykers use the same engine and all...

[p3u]

Spyker used the BHF.

[pwest15]

Spyker used the BHF.

This, RS4 uses BNS, Spyker uses our BHF because port injection

Sent from my potato

[FastEddie]

Not trying to knock down OP but before everyone gets excited over a tune one person is running i think you should consider waiting to see reliability (time) issues. Not trying to sound like a complete fan boy but JHM makes a tune that ive never seen one person (in a S4) complain about and we have seen real world results. Plus I dont know if you or your "tuner" said Spyker uses the same engine as the RS4 but it doesnt as mentioned above.

[2004B6S4]

just curious, something I was thinking about recently - is it possible to program a rev limiter that limits you to 3k or less when the engine is cold, and then goes back to the normal stock config after the engine warms up? If I was going to get a tune I'd probably be interested in doing that. That way, if I ever had to let someone else drive my car, I wouldn't have to worry about them ragging on it when the engine is still cold and potentially causing scored cylinder walls.

[Mr.Wrong]

It's nice to see folks venturing out of a comfort zone and trying out new things, so hats of to you sir on that. Not really sure on your strategy here with your posts. You're asking for a peaceful thread and yet in the meanwhile taking jabs at the most respected tuner for this platform, almost baiting for blowout... Not sure it's such a wise move if you want to keep this on topic.

Also, it's not really 100% Steves from Fabspeed tune as you tweaked it a bit. So if one to call Fabspeed to get their S4 tuned, which version would they get before your changes or after?

Most importantly, we need to see some acceleration data from the strip with supporting mods (piggies + 2.5" catback or 2.5" fullback), so we could compare it to similar modded cars. Now, that's going to be a real test and will tell a lot.

[dsgray16]

It's nice to see folks venturing out of a comfort zone and trying out new things, so hats of to you sir on that. Not really sure on your strategy here with your posts. You're asking for a peaceful thread and yet in the meanwhile taking jabs at the most respected tuner for this platform, almost baiting for blowout... Not sure it's such a wise move if you want to keep this on topic.

Also, it's not really 100% Steves from Fabspeed tune as you tweaked it a bit. So if one to call Fabspeed to get their S4 tuned, which version would they get before your changes or after?

Most importantly, we need to see some acceleration data from the strip with supporting mods (piggies + 2.5" catback or 2.5" fullback), so we could compare it to similar modded cars. Now, that's going to be a real test and will tell a lot.

I said the same thing and got completely ignored by OP.. Let's see if he responds to you... Hah

[FastEddie]

I said the same thing and got completely ignored by OP.. Let's see if he responds to you... Hah

I wanted to see a video and still havent gotten a decent response as well.

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I said the same thing and got completely ignored by OP.. Let's see if he responds to you... Hah

1) After reading my posts again, I could see how you might come to that conclusion. So thank you for allowing me to clarify before this thread goes South. My issue with the JHM fanboyism is that a lot of it seems to be based on a couple of track slips of what I can assure you is a top shape S4 with just about every bolt on that JHM could throw at it. So how much of that car's results are because of the tune itself?

As I've indicated, I've spent hundreds of hours picking apart the B6 ECU and I know it's maps like the back of my hand by now. With that said, the simple fact is, with a N/A engine, there aren't really many (if any) calibration areas that are going to give you a massive advantage against a competitor. At least not to the extent that the JHM faithful are claiming in many threads. The only one that I've changed that's had any significant effect is the cam timing, both on the V6 and the V8. However, based on logs that I've seen of their V6 tune, I know for fact that they didn't touch them on that file. So I have no reason to believe that they did on the V8 either. That's why I would really like to see some logs, because if they left them stock, then there's definitely power being left on the table.

There are some areas i.e. the maps responsible for where injection starts that might be tweaked to some good effect, say if you're altered the the cam timing. However, most of these areas wouldn't give a huge gain at WOT when the injector is basically dumping fuel, again, I'm referring to the WOT difference that people claim with this tune.

So if I appear a little bit hostile towards the JHM fanboys it's because they back the product to the point of completely (and you would have to agree, very vocally) discounting any other tuning option, but in my opinion, they do so without knowing WHY, and JHM hasn't given any indication as to why either.

Just to reiterate my other point as well. I'm not saying that the JHM tune is any worse or better. what I am saying is that I don't think it's the ONLY worthwhile calibration setup for more power out of a 4.2 or 3.0. I know JHM has a very faithful following and I commend that in principle, but it's much like my views on Religions, having something to place your faith in is great, just don't use that as a reason to try and blow things up lol.

Also, as you alluded to in the above post, having some healthy competition among tuners who actually want to write good files for the largely neglected N/A Audi engines benefits us all, wouldn't you agree?

I also want to dispel the idea that I'm somehow trying to steal JHM's 'secret sauce'. I think between my posting up my own tune for the V6, all my DAMOS work and talking openly about my findings, especially with respect to the cam timing, that I don't have any sinister alterior motives. The only reason that I haven't openly posted the V8 tune is because Steve was kind enough to provide me a base to start with and I wouldn't feel right posting up something that wasn't 100% scratch made by myself (although the tune I have now is likely different enough to honestly qualify as legitimately my own). That said, if I can provide Steve with some good feedback for him to massage into a great tune, then everybody wins and I can sit back satisfied that I played a role in it's development (well, that and the fact that I just honestly eat, sleep and breathe this stuff).

Second, I'm putting the effort that I have into tuning because I want to learn. Simple as that, I think it's pretty apparent by what I've posted over on Nefmoto. Plus, I want to see if I can improve on what's available. I've seen many examples of home brewed solutions from passionate enthusiasts that have formed the basis for some pretty cool innovations. That, and I firmly believe in sharing as much info as I can with the community at large. Does anyone seriously believe that all the secrecy about Bosch tuning has done us any favors?

Also, my living arrangements (downtown condo) don't allow for much in the line of wrenching. However, tuning is something that I can do without the garage space I no longer have at the moment.

Finally, I want to be clear, I didn't say that this tune made the car shift any faster. That's squarely a function of the TCU as you said. However, what you CAN do, if you scale things right, is cheat and force the ECU to demand load values that at least get the transmission into lock-up faster. At least there, the car will respond to throttle inputs rather than just slip the TC around like a CVT.

And last but not least, trust me, Steve-O knows his stuff. I'm just trying to do some of the legwork for him and learn a thing or two along the way [up]

Umm, read much....

If I take the time out of my day to do you the courtesy of writing out a well thought out answer, the least you could do is take the time to read it before taking a jab....

[ZimbutheMonkey]

I wanted to see a video and still havent gotten a decent response as well.

I can try, but the problem is that without being able to reference what the throttle is doing, it's pretty tough to get a meaningful comparison by just looking at the tach alone.

that said, maybe I can see if I can find some representative footage.

Same goes for you, what was not clear about this response? Read what I've posted in the previous post and YOU take the time to summarize for me why this doesn't make sense.

If you can't be bothered to read what I've written, explain why I should take the time to take video, edit it, post it etc... for you?

[ZimbutheMonkey]

It's nice to see folks venturing out of a comfort zone and trying out new things, so hats of to you sir on that. Not really sure on your strategy here with your posts. You're asking for a peaceful thread and yet in the meanwhile taking jabs at the most respected tuner for this platform, almost baiting for blowout... Not sure it's such a wise move if you want to keep this on topic.

Also, it's not really 100% Steves from Fabspeed tune as you tweaked it a bit. So if one to call Fabspeed to get their S4 tuned, which version would they get before your changes or after?

Most importantly, we need to see some acceleration data from the strip with supporting mods (piggies + 2.5" catback or 2.5" fullback), so we could compare it to similar modded cars. Now, that's going to be a real test and will tell a lot.

Well thanks for the hats off

with respect to point one, I agree, let's just leave the JHM thing alone.

Moving on, anything coming from Steve will be his own, whether or not he chooses to incorporate my suggestions is at his discretion. I know he knows his stuff so whatever he decides to do is his call. However if someone wanted an exact replica of my file, I'm sure Steve would oblige (unless he foresaw a reliability issue arising from it or if he had a better way of calibrating it). As I said, I'd be stoked to see happy forum members running a tune I had a hand in developing

One last question though, why data from a drag strip with a modified car? What exactly does that tell us about how well the tune itself works?

[cruzzin]

So I called Steve and have talked to him. He is very knowledgeable and knows his stuff. He has tuned around 30-40 S4's and has his own tune he uses like JHM or any other company.

He gave Zimbu a base file because that is what he asked for. He did say that Zimbu is a little bit more aggressive in his tuning than he likes to do.

Stevie's tune does have some cam timing adjustment in it and he says that's where you get some good powe gains.

I am getting ready to tune my S4 and I am debating between them and JHM and I will agree that I want to try this tune but there is something to be said for known reliability with the JHM tune especially since these motors can't easily be fixed.

If I do go with Fabspeed I wouldn't mind doing some before and after videos potentially

[jr1415us]

I corresponded with Steve a little as well. One thing I don't understand is the OP said he was flashing the ECU without special tools. Steve needs your ECU sent to him for a bench tune ( which he admits isn't necessary for the B6).

OP, can the tune be flashed with VCDS cable and Nefmoto?

[Mr.Wrong]

Well thanks for the hats off

with respect to point one, I agree, let's just leave the JHM thing alone.

Moving on, anything coming from Steve will be his own, whether or not he chooses to incorporate my suggestions is at his discretion. I know he knows his stuff so whatever he decides to do is his call. However if someone wanted an exact replica of my file, I'm sure Steve would oblige (unless he foresaw a reliability issue arising from it or if he had a better way of calibrating it). As I said, I'd be stoked to see happy forum members running a tune I had a hand in developing

One last question though, why data from a drag strip with a modified car? What exactly does that tell us about how well the tune itself works?

Tune by itself on this platform barely does anything. It's pretty well known that stock exhaust is one of the biggest restrictions and robs this motor of power. Tune + exhaust is sort of a start up must do mod to wake this beast up. Once that is done we could see how well tune takes advantage of exhaust to produce power in a proven acceleration test. Again then we compare your results to others and see a true difference. Since you have an automatic transmission, it should be quite easy to do, as we almost eliminate driver's skill as in manual case. Probably would've been better to run it stock right before tune and then right after it was tuned. I guess it's too late for that now.