H&R spacers - question of making.

[A Stupid Turtle]

http://shop.achtuning.com/HR-4055571...di-and-VW.aspx

I'm assuming the spacer is aluminum, the threaded portion which my lug bolts insert into the spacer; these threads are not aluminum I believe. What material are these threaded spots made out of? Also, how are these threaded portions held into the spacer?

If someone can take some measurements on them (not specific to the size of spacer depth, but of other aspects) that would be appreciated.

[rollerton]

What are your concerns?
They have inserts pressed in from the back side, and the part that 'binds' from the insert to the body of the spacer is splined so it doesn't spin. It's probably made of steel, so I would use anti-seize on the threads. They're pretty reliable. But, FWIW you can run a 20mm spacer with extended lugs, instead of getting the bolt-on version. Upside to the bolt-on version is they're supposed to be safer- a LONG lugbolt is more prone to stretching and fatigue. On the average daily driver I wouldn't worry much about a spacer up to 20mm, but if you had something that made some power or goes off-road or other abuse I'd lean towards the one that bolts on.

[4rings2turbos]

Those beautiful 14" widebody 911s track 3" spacers HARD. They hold up beautifully. Run the width you want and be confident that if lugs are torqued to spec you're good.

Drift cars also often run real wide spacers and even stack spacers.

(fun fact: 'spacers' that the wheel bolts to are actually called adapters regardless of whether or not the bolt pattern changes.)

What did you want measurements of?

[julex]

I am running 35mm of these and have zero problems with 600whp although I went with stud option (H&R DRM or whatever are they called) since it only makes sense (what idiot decided that lug bolts are better is beyond me, all for looks I guess). Once you got studs, you never go lugs :)

[8520]

I ran 35mm on my last a6. Held up launching no problems.

[A Stupid Turtle]

Measurements of...
What is the diameter or radius of the threaded portion that the original lug bolts threaded into (the diameter before the actual threaded insert is pressed in), as well as what info i can get on the splines it uses to allow it to pull itself in/out?
I'd like more info on these little inserts as to how deep, diameter, etc... (I know nothing about them)...
What angle/length of the chamfer on the side that meets the hub on the adapter?
What internal radius(es) are on the inside of the portion that inserts in the wheel? (It looks like it changes twice?)
What's the diameter/radius of the hubcentric portion, and how much rise does it have from the flat of the spacer?
How deep is the 60 degree chamfer for the bolts supplied that insert to the hub?

Probably should just buy a pair myself and do all this, but if I can avoid it that'd be swell!

[A Stupid Turtle]

I may get over 20mm spacers so I'd rather just avoid longer bolts, hence why the DRA not the DR adapter/spacer

[julex]

I think you want to make your own set that's why you're asking these questions...

Buy a set, I would never trust anybody measuring this kind of stuff accurately even if anybody volunteers to do this for you, which I doubt anybody will since it requires couple of specialized tools to measure this stuff accurately. Cheers.

[A Stupid Turtle]

If I had a 3d printer I could make them, but I'm trying to use the stress analysis feature on Auto desk inventor pro in comparison to the extended bolts

[4rings2turbos]

The bolts are under near-zero shear load when bolts are installed properly. The load is transferred via friction of the clamped joint. The Cf of a tire to the road surface is much lower than the Cf of a spacer, hub or wheel when a bolt is installed properly. In any given situation a wheel will lose grip on the road surface before the clamp loses grip if the bolts are torqued properly. The length of a given bolt does not change these physics appreciably in the realm of a car (no one is doing 24" long studs or bolts).

The two ways to install a bolt improperly and cause failure: not tight enough, or too tight (beyond elastic limit).

You could have a 99mm bolt and the physics will be the same, the bolts are under elastic stress only, not shear stress (when installed properly).

But don't make spacers, they're cheap enough to buy I think and cheap spacers already have wobble issues, some nice H&R ones will serve you well.

[A Stupid Turtle]

All the failures on these I see do not look like necking failure, more of a jagged (if smooth, close to 45 degrees) breaking off near the head which seems indicative of shear failure?

[A Stupid Turtle]

It makes sense for manufacturerers to blame installation or specific application (yes, definetly most likely the case)..
But they say the increased stresses are marginal to none, still seems like it is more than they all play off.

[4rings2turbos]

They can fail if improperly installed and can and will shear if there is insufficient clamping force. If there is sufficient clamping force (i.e. Torqued to spec) then it's impossible to generate enough Cf with tires on pavement to overcome this clamp. It's as easy as not using a torque wrench to install them improperly though.

[julex]

of course all this talk is about NON HUBCENTRIC system where proper clamping is paramount. With Audi and the right spacer/adapter, the hubring interface takes care of most of shear so bolt has a much easier life. It also ensures the tire is always perfectly centered on the hub.

What are "All the failures on these I see"? Certainly not hub centric spacers but some cheap-o stuff if that's even on audi or really thin spacers that cannot physically have proper hubcentric (just thick enough for stock hub to not enter wheel enough to provide centering) or in JDM world where bolt does all the work?

[A Stupid Turtle]

Porsches on watkins glen mainly.

[A Stupid Turtle]

It's not the DRA that are an issue, it's all the bolts that are an extra 14+mm longer (DR) and no name brands that are simply a "slab of aluminum"

EDIT:
It makes sense that the shoulder of the bolt/head of the bolt should be flush and not allow any shear if torqued down properly. It's not like the bolts are a "torque to yield", and never remove situation so elastic/axial stress should should be the only problem.
Started using this software a month ago in a solid modeling class, figured it'd be fun to see if it can analyze what I wanted it to

[4rings2turbos]

Should be cool to see the physics in action then. Maximum clamp force would 90% of elastic stress, this is the sweet spot and would be great to see the Cf the program comes up with between the pad, spacer and hub. If accurate the program should show extremely little shear stress on longer bolts.

[A Stupid Turtle]

I saw a complete aluminum bow, other than the string, and went through a stress analysis. It seems proper but obviously not like real world situations.
Apparently the software is like 15k to use in commercial applications and we get to use it for free for awhile so, it's kinda fun!