F21 Frankenturbo / Motoza Dyno

[cmiguel32]

Hey ya'll.

Just moved down to North Carolina and decided to take advantage of a local shop that has a dynojet. I'm still in the tuning process with Dave @Motoza (on my 4th revision). I didn't see a whole lot of dyno numbers for this set up so I figured I'd get it done and contribute to the community.

I logged all of the pulls with the Motoza software. The shop said that i'm seeing some flow issues up top and recommended that I go ahead and use a test pipe (since I already have one) instead of the 034 HFC that's on there. They were pretty impressed with the set up and AFR numbers. Dave rules.

First and last run are 3rd gear, 2nd one is 4th gear. The owner at the shop claims that his dynojet is fairly conservative. I compared my runs to another individual's file (b6 a4) they had saved. It appeared to be a factory k03 with tuning putting down around 150whp.

Click here for the dyno image:

http://imgur.com/aLvKKuc

[customa4]

[AudiSport12]

We have damn near the exact same set up but on my B5. Using the dyno feature for the Motoza app I show to have 237hp (iirc) on the best pull but never have actually dyno'ed. Honestly though, seemed a little lower than I was expecting but I am only on my 2nd revision. I am still on the stock clutch and have a RA4 waiting to be installed so once that's in I will send in for more revisions. Care to post up some graphs pulled from Motoza showing all avail info? Ie. power, tq, afr, req boost, etc. I would like to see how we compare.

[Seerlah]

Plenty for a dd. Best bang for the buck, proven over and over. Nice numbers

[cmiguel32]

Thanks! I'd like to squeeze just a little more out of it. It's definitely enjoyable as a DD.
I just performed the dreaded heater core replacement the other day so it was a nice change of pace to have fun and do dyno pulls!

I hope to get at least a couple more years out of this car before I move on.
I'm on the fence whether or not to invest in IE drop-in rods and a built head and go for a bigger turbo down the road, or save my pennies and buy a B8.5 S4.

[Rus_ninja]

About the same numbers for mine as well, good stuff.

[old guy]

About the same numbers for mine as well, good stuff.

Same here. Here's a Motoza Dyno run from when I first installed my F21L about a year ago. Since then Dave has made several changes. I suspect with the tweaks it would be a little higher now. Just this morning I was cranking hard in 2nd gear on the Interstate on ramp and my TorquePro indicated 228 g\s of flow. If you use the .8 conversion estimate 228/.8 = 285 CHP. All wheel drive HP loss is typically estimated to be around 20% so 285/1.2 = 237 whp. Pretty much right in line with what you are seeing.

[ChuckNasty149]

Old Guy, have you ever tried running Motoza's E85 file with your F21?

[AudiSport12]

I know MetalMan on here runs their E85 tune on F21

[cmiguel32]

I'm running the E85 file -- Currently on my 2nd revision. I'm going to Dyno next month.

[AudiSport12]

Have you or do you plan on doing rods?

[cmiguel32]

Have you or do you plan on doing rods?

Yeah, I'm collecting parts for an engine build (probably end of this year). The E85 file I'm running is tame since I'm on a stock bottom end.

[AudiSport12]

Did you go straight to the E85 or use pump file first? If so, pretty noticeable difference between the two on a tame E85 file? I'm considering adding E85 but I don't plan on building the motor. Just looking for the extra squeeze.

[old guy]

Old Guy, have you ever tried running Motoza's E85 file with your F21?

No I have not and have no plans to do so. I will just live surreptitiously through Cmiguel32’s dyno runs ;-)

[ChuckNasty149]

[QUOTE=old guy;11514985]No I have not and have no plans to do so. I will just live surreptitiously through Cmiguel32’s dyno runs ;-)[/QUOTE

Not a bad way to look at it

I'm running the E85 file -- Currently on my 2nd revision. I'm going to Dyno next month.

My stock K03 let go the other day, so Im putting in a FTG K04 with close dimensions to Frakens F21. Getting on my flame suit now, but i'll be sure to let everyone know how long that will last...

[cmiguel32]

Did you go straight to the E85 or use pump file first? If so, pretty noticeable difference between the two on a tame E85 file? I'm considering adding E85 but I don't plan on building the motor. Just looking for the extra squeeze.

I went with the 93 file first as I purchased everything from Franketurbo (including the 550cc injectors). I only recently upgraded to the MTC from Motoza and 750cc injectors. It's a night and day difference between the two files. The car has a lot more torque (according to my butt dyno) all the way through the powerband on E85. The weather is still variable in the mornings here in NC, you will notice rough starts (on E85) in the morning if the temps drop below 50 degrees at night.

I don't think i'd plan to run the E85 file long term without upgrading the bottom end. Which is probably why Oldguy is taking that stand :)

[ChuckNasty149]

Ya, I love the MTC feature on motoza. I would really only run E if I was going to a track event or dyno day. Will I for sure need a 3'' MAF and larger inlet pipe for this K04, or can I squeeze the old one on there?

[cmiguel32]

Ya, I love the MTC feature on motoza. I would really only run E if I was going to a track event or dyno day. Will I for sure need a 3'' MAF and larger inlet pipe for this K04, or can I squeeze the old one on there?

It's up to Dave, I'm pretty sure he feels more comfortable tuning with the 3" MAF

[MetalMan]

I don't think i'd plan to run the E85 file long term without upgrading the bottom end. Which is probably why Oldguy is taking that stand :)

My B5 has been running E85 with a stock-rod F21 file for about 10 months now. I've been attempting to get a hardware-upgrade file (and a PayPal invoice) out of Dave to take advantage of the I.E. rods I installed, and also to implement a 3bar MAP sensor. Better intercooler too.

Do you have plans to incorporate a 3bar MAP sensor? I'm assuming the B6 1.8T comes stock with a 2.5bar sensor like the B5 does. 2.5bar will limit boost to ~21-22 psi. 3bar's limit would be ~29psi.

[cmiguel32]

My B5 has been running E85 with a stock-rod F21 file for about 10 months now. I've been attempting to get a hardware-upgrade file (and a PayPal invoice) out of Dave to take advantage of the I.E. rods I installed, and also to implement a 3bar MAP sensor. Better intercooler too.

Do you have plans to incorporate a 3bar MAP sensor? I'm assuming the B6 1.8T comes stock with a 2.5bar sensor like the B5 does. 2.5bar will limit boost to ~21-22 psi. 3bar's limit would be ~29psi.

Yeah I'm planning to go 3bar when I finally go through with this engine build. I'm similarly going to have the car tuned to take advantage of rods on E85. Dave is going to have to tune mine a bit differently because my build includes a fully built AMB head with IE street/strip cams. I'll eventually change turbos to a GTX or EFR to take advantage of the head.

[audi_nightrider]

I wonder when will I ever see full potential for mine. Always having problem, non turbo related, here and there.

Motoza Software
Current setup: Mixed flow Frankenturbo, HF exh mani, Neuspeed Exh., 034 HFC, Stage 2 Snow Performance, Bosch 550s, RA4 SM clutch, 2.5" ID OD Mishimoto FMIC, EVO IX or X DV oh and stock MAF

and if this counts: Carbonio Intake lol and phenolic spacers.

[gtsingh91]

Really considering the FT21 upgrade when my K03 goes. Right now I have a full stage 2+ setup as my daily. What tunes are more popular than others? I see a bunch of you have Motoza, but why that over Maestro or the other choices? I'd be going with the Bosch 550cc injectors and I'd like to keep my stock MAF but would I need the 2.75 adapter? I'm sure I'd have to upgrade my Forge TIP as well, or is it possible to squeeze it onto the FT since it's a K03 housing?

[quattro guy]

Hi guys. I also have the f21l and I'm running the e85 file. Cmiguel82, are the numbers you posted from the dyno, where you on the e85 file? The best i have been able to achieve its 230hp and 219tq on e85.then again i have the stock intercooler. Have you upgraded or had anyone upgraded to the 3 bar map sensor? I know that i made s thread about this but haven't been on it because a member asked fore me to post the logs from dropbox and i dot know how to do that so the thread is stuck there, but he said hes on stock bottom end and pushing 290hp with like 270 or tq and the worst run hes ever had was 270hp on his first revision. I want to do the 3bar to push more boost but i really want to know the limit of this turbo. So for the guys with the upgraded rods, have you guys been sqeezing all you can from the f21l? If so what figures power wise are you acheiving? I was going t build my motor this year but ended up spending all my money on a much needed vacation lol.

[diagnosticator]

Nice fat area under the curve!

[cmiguel32]

Hi guys. I also have the f21l and I'm running the e85 file. Cmiguel82, are the numbers you posted from the dyno, where you on the e85 file? The best i have been able to achieve its 230hp and 219tq on e85.then again i have the stock intercooler. Have you upgraded or had anyone upgraded to the 3 bar map sensor? I know that i made s thread about this but haven't been on it because a member asked fore me to post the logs from dropbox and i dot know how to do that so the thread is stuck there, but he said hes on stock bottom end and pushing 290hp with like 270 or tq and the worst run hes ever had was 270hp on his first revision. I want to do the 3bar to push more boost but i really want to know the limit of this turbo. So for the guys with the upgraded rods, have you guys been sqeezing all you can from the f21l? If so what figures power wise are you acheiving? I was going t build my motor this year but ended up spending all my money on a much needed vacation lol.

This dyno chart is on 93 octane. My e85 runs weren't the best due to heat and the shops boost tee popping off. E85 tune is around 265-275 whp/tq. Curve is just about as fat too.

Stock MAP sensor, stock block.

[KHARDa4]

Did you go straight to the E85 or use pump file first? If so, pretty noticeable difference between the two on a tame E85 file? I'm considering adding E85 but I don't plan on building the motor. Just looking for the extra squeeze.

I went to e85 from daves 93 tune on a k04 and yes it is a noticeable difference through out the whole power band.

[MetalMan]

Hi guys. I also have the f21l and I'm running the e85 file. Cmiguel82, are the numbers you posted from the dyno, where you on the e85 file? The best i have been able to achieve its 230hp and 219tq on e85.then again i have the stock intercooler. Have you upgraded or had anyone upgraded to the 3 bar map sensor? I know that i made s thread about this but haven't been on it because a member asked fore me to post the logs from dropbox and i dot know how to do that so the thread is stuck there, but he said hes on stock bottom end and pushing 290hp with like 270 or tq and the worst run hes ever had was 270hp on his first revision. I want to do the 3bar to push more boost but i really want to know the limit of this turbo. So for the guys with the upgraded rods, have you guys been sqeezing all you can from the f21l? If so what figures power wise are you acheiving? I was going t build my motor this year but ended up spending all my money on a much needed vacation lol.

Dave @ Motoza has pushed my 1.8T with F21L, E85, 3bar MAP, and upgraded rods pretty much as far as it will go. He limited the top end a little because he believes that beyond 250 g/s there are diminishing returns and reduced turbo longevity.
Haven't put my car on the dyno but it feels pretty strong...

You definitely need to upgrade from the stock intercooler. E85 will help with handling IATs but that's still a huge bottleneck.

[quattro guy]

Do you guys think that the intercooler is what is causing me to only achieve 230hp on e85? Its frustrating that i see all these cars with the same software and pretty much everything else and are achieveing 60hp more. Do you guys honestly believe the itercooler will allow me to get to those numbers. Why in the hell is my car only making 230 on e85? I will upgrade to the 3 bar map sensor in like a moth or so but still. And when i asked dave why i was only acheiving this figures i didnt get like a response i would be satisfied with. I understand the at the very least a fmic but im still having trouble beleiving one will actually help me achieve the 40-60hp more that everyone else is getting. All the ppl i have asked are pretty much in the 280-290hp range and drop back down to the 230-240hp on 93 oct. Either way all of you guys are acheiving way more torque than what i have ever seen according to the dyno feature. Best ive seen is 219😔

[MetalMan]

Do you guys think that the intercooler is what is causing me to only achieve 230hp on e85? Its frustrating that i see all these cars with the same software and pretty much everything else and are achieveing 60hp more. Do you guys honestly believe the itercooler will allow me to get to those numbers. Why in the hell is my car only making 230 on e85? I will upgrade to the 3 bar map sensor in like a moth or so but still. And when i asked dave why i was only acheiving this figures i didnt get like a response i would be satisfied with. I understand the at the very least a fmic but im still having trouble beleiving one will actually help me achieve the 40-60hp more that everyone else is getting. All the ppl i have asked are pretty much in the 280-290hp range and drop back down to the 230-240hp on 93 oct. Either way all of you guys are acheiving way more torque than what i have ever seen according to the dyno feature. Best ive seen is 219😔

How do your IATs look? All an intercooler does is cool the charge air from the turbo before it enters the engine. If IATs are high, then timing advance is reduced. With enough reduction in timing advance you can see quite a large drop in power output.
For reference, last night I took a log to send to Motoza. Ambient temperature was about 24 deg. C, and after a few hard pulls, my IAT was about 40-45 deg. C. I have a good FMIC that reliably limits IAT rise to about 20 deg. C.
And I'm seeing about 24 degrees of timing advance near redline (7k RPM).

There's no point in swapping to a 3bar MAP sensor if you're still running the stock intercooler. Throwing more boost at it won't make things better... the more boost you run, the hotter the charge air, and the greater need for good intercooling.
If you're going to a 3bar MAP sensor, I strongly suggest also upgrading your intercooler prior (so you only pay a single Hardware Upgrade Fee).

[cmiguel32]

How do your IATs look? All an intercooler does is cool the charge air from the turbo before it enters the engine. If IATs are high, then timing advance is reduced. With enough reduction in timing advance you can see quite a large drop in power output.
For reference, last night I took a log to send to Motoza. Ambient temperature was about 24 deg. C, and after a few hard pulls, my IAT was about 40-45 deg. C. I have a good FMIC that reliably limits IAT rise to about 20 deg. C.
And I'm seeing about 24 degrees of timing advance near redline (7k RPM).

There's no point in swapping to a 3bar MAP sensor if you're still running the stock intercooler. Throwing more boost at it won't make things better... the more boost you run, the hotter the charge air, and the greater need for good intercooling.
If you're going to a 3bar MAP sensor, I strongly suggest also upgrading your intercooler prior (so you only pay a single Hardware Upgrade Fee).

Sage advice. I'd recommend the Treadstone TR18T intercooler mated with cxracing piping. That's what I'm running and it works extremely well for a reasonable price.

[quattro guy]

I know what you mean. I can do a log And post it but i wouldn't even know how to post it here other than copy and paste everything. Last time i did a log was a while ago so o can't recall the iat.I'll look into the fmic and see when it would be possible for me to get one since i blew through all my funds on an upcoming vacation. Have any of you guys tried leaning the stock intercooler plus have a fmic and have both hooked up? I want to try it and do logs to see if indeed it helps or not.

[drift077]

Aw Szeto

Sent from my F8131 using Audizine mobile app