no spark, please help

[cinesnow]

Hello AZ,

its been a while since ive been on here and wanted to share my recent find and ask a question to anyone with some insight. I bought an 01.5 6 speed avant with 260k on the clock from its second owner, its been properly maintained and is all original except for a giac chip which is throwing the epl light, euro decklid and wagner s4 intercoolers and apr dv's.

I dont drive it every day as its my snow car. The last time i did i came home on a tow truck. i literally parked the car, came back out of the store and it wouldnt start. after getting it home I decided to put in a new fuel pump, filter and pressure regulator, spark plugs, coil packs, icm's and a crank position sensor (g28) i have also switched around cam position sensors and verified the wires for g40, g163 and g28. I have verified that the wires from the ecu to the icm's and from the icm's to the coil packs are ok as well. I have a stock h box and m box and have tried to start the car with both and i still have no spark and yes all the the fuses and furl pump relay are ok.

So i'm really stumped, i have a few 2.7's in my life and a ton of parts but am now at the end if my rope and looking for help. I will be re-timing the engine tomorrow as i believe one of the heads is off a tooth but that has never created a no start so yea... ive searched the threads and no bright ideas have come up, followed the bentley manual and used common sense, now im turning to my fellow b5'ers in hopes of learning why the car wont give me spark.
thanks in advance for reading, here's a few pics as threads are boring without some sort of car porn ;)

[vavJETTAw36]

Does it crank at all? What's the voltage on your battery? Throw a voltmeter on your battery and report your voltage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cinesnow]

it does crank, 13+ volts. i have tried with and without my charger on the car.

[vavJETTAw36]

What was your method to check spark?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cinesnow]

As it currently sits, the natural grazing area of the b5 s4:


Ater running the charger on 2 amps for 5 hours:


Static check before turning it over:


After turning it over:

[cinesnow]

I plugged in a spare coil pack to the #3 harness and held a spark plug in while i ha a friend bump the starter for 3-4 seconds with the lights off. i'm considering pulling the injectors and rail to verify it is spraying because when i looked at the plugs ther were quite dry

[zillarob]

Vcds and look at rpm while cranking.

Did you swap the alum spacer to the new crank sensor?
If you didnt they can contact the fw and get chewed up.

[HighPsi(NorCal)]

Am I reading your charger wrong, does it say 14.9 volts?

[vavJETTAw36]

Am I reading your charger wrong, does it say 14.9 volts?

What are you getting at?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cinesnow]

I did transfer the aluminum spacer, funky fit without it.
the charger walked up to 14.9 when i unplugged it yes. i took the battery from another car and have been running it in there for the past few months but am considering getting a new one tomorrow

[zillarob]

160 is about right. Maybe graph it and make sure it isnt cutting out?

Here is the quicky way to check timing without yanking everything apart.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11336611
Dont worry about the cam bar, they should still line up like the pics.
Only have to pull off the sensors this way.

[Zba]

Are you checking both sides of the circuits?

When you say you installed parts; are those new parts or new to this vehicle parts?

[cinesnow]

Thanks for the quick replies guys, i really appreciate it.

when i bought the car i installed new chain tensioners and must have gotten 15 or 17 links on one side, i used the bar and pin. cool technique, ill give it a shot when i get home from dinner. i checked both sides of the circuts yes. the green/yeow wire on the #3 coil had slightly higher resistance than the rest but it has continuity.
all the parts are brand new except the cam position sensors due to me having a surplus of verified good ones.

[HighPsi(NorCal)]

Those battery voltages seem a bit wacky. Are you above ~11.0 (v) when cranking? Just to re-verify, you did check fuse #29?

[S4gasm aka LOTR]

Have you tried unplugging that cam sensor on bank 1 and see if it'll start?

Once I had a dead cam adjuster solenoid and it caused all sorts of weird shit to happen, new solenoid and all was good. I could indeed start the car with it unplugged though. Worth a shot for you as well.

[cinesnow]

i re verified, fuse 29 is good and tried to start with g163 unplugged but it still just goes wininaninaninini...

[NOTORIOUS VR]

Code 17748 tells me that the crank to cam timing is out.

So first thing to do is check the timing belt, 2nd thing would be to do a compression and leak down test to make sure all your valves are good.

[B5Mark]

I had this same problem. I did everything that could be possible for no spark in the engine. We replaced the instrument cluster and it started right up. (Odd)

[vavJETTAw36]

The s4 can run without an instrument cluster. Must have been fluke


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cinesnow]

So i tore the car apart in preperation to remove the cams and dicovered that they were both in time with 16 links. I was suprised to find what i'm pretty sure is the culprit, i'll verify it tomorrow evening after i put in the new timing belt and gasgets in. The cam wheel was completely dislodged, yet somehow it didd't tear up the cam sensor. I did find the passenger 13mm bolt that holds the wheel on the passenger head to be loose as well but not undone.

the picture below is the driver cam sensor with the cam bar in place:

[B5Mark]

The s4 can run without an instrument cluster. Must have been fluke


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah it was

[cinesnow]

so today i put it back together and its still has no spark. it had compression but im picking up a new tester tomorrow to get more accurate readings. I really thought the cam wheel was going to do it. any ideas guys?

[wbrunner23]

Grounds are all good? Sometimes scuffing your ground terminals can help with electrical gremlins. Not saying that's your issue, but it can't hurt

[Zba]

No spark on any cylinder? Power and ground at the coils? Power and ground at the ICMs? Time to start checking all ECM inputs vs outputs; you are missing something.

[NOTORIOUS VR]

so today i put it back together and its still has no spark. it had compression but im picking up a new tester tomorrow to get more accurate readings. I really thought the cam wheel was going to do it. any ideas guys?

Clear the faults and rescan...

Have you verified you have 12V at the coils/plugs? They're powered via the fuel pump relay (so you will only be able to see power there during cranking/run conditions.

[cinesnow]

i did, re verified that there was power at the coils and icm's with a test light bumping the starter and measured resistance key off engine off before i figured out that there was no fuel due to the plug being dislodged on the underside of the blue fuel lid to the pump. must have come loose when i put the new pump in. took me 5 mins to figure out once i knew i had spark. no codes now and in perfect time now.

Thanks again for your help everyone, i really appreciate your responses.

[vavJETTAw36]

i did, re verified that there was power at the coils and icm's with a test light bumping the starter and measured resistance key off engine off before i figured out that there was no fuel due to the plug being dislodged on the underside of the blue fuel lid to the pump. must have come loose when i put the new pump in. took me 5 mins to figure out once i knew i had spark. no codes now and in perfect time now.

Thanks again for your help everyone, i really appreciate your responses.

Glad you figured it out.

Lesson learned though. When having starting issues, start with your basics: Fuel, Ignition, Air, Compression. You would have found the issue way before.

[Zba]

So what was the initial failure?

[Hulksmash]

So what was the initial failure?

Loose fuel hose

[cinesnow]

initial failure was the cam position sensor wheel on the end of the camshaft coming loost and being mis-aligned with the cam. second was the + & - terminsls on the inside of the blue fuel lid werent on as good as they should have been. i imagine when I wrestled in the new pump it wiggled loose.

[Zba]

Loose fuel hose

You shutup