Major APR DSG tune issues

[markn1689]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...une-on-a-16-S3

Just wanted to point out some pretty severe issues the apr dsg tune is causing.

Then the ARP guy comes on and says a 4000rpm launch is too hard on the car and that's causing the issue...

funny because my stock car has NO issues launching for 4k...

APR is garbage..

[tekkie]

APR used to make good tunes but from what i see on the S3 i will never touch it

[roadrunner_oz]

Good tunes from APR, but question the long term effects on the DSG. I just switch from 12 months on ECu tune and then upgraded to the DSG which was dog sh1t.
Now on UniTroinics and it is blissful ... so much better

[aj6]

APR is garbage..

Yet another post you've started that's nothing more than hating on APR and wasting our time.

[markn1689]

Yet another post you've started that's nothing more than hating on APR and wasting our time.

wasting your time? this is an a3/s3 forum right? freakin apr fanboys crying when their beloved tuner gets called out for sucking donkey balls. if your that butthurt go get some ointment from apr and rub it in hard

[aj6]

The objective criticism from people that are having potential issues with APR products is fine, and hopefully by pointing these issues out we can all benefit from understanding our cars and third party products better.

What is not necessary is someone consistently pointing out these objective observations and highlighting them in new posts that are intended to simply fan the flames of your own personal issues with APR.

[markn1689]

this is a new issue though...........

[will13k7]

another troll thread, but putting the hyperbole aside, APR has yet to respond to roadrunner_oz's issues on here, and with this new post, their response was pretty lacking. Do they know there are issues, but have no time to address them right now, so they are staying quiet?

Just letting this stuff slide is not the right approach IMHO, they need to be transparent and informative when these issues pop up or they'll lose TCU tune customers.

[roadrunner_oz]

another troll thread, but putting the hyperbole aside, APR has yet to respond to roadrunner_oz's issues on here, and with this new post, their response was pretty lacking. Do they know there are issues, but have no time to address them right now, so they are staying quiet?

Just letting this stuff slide is not the right approach IMHO, they need to be transparent and informative when these issues pop up or they'll lose TCU tune customers.

APR? good ECU tune as I ran it for 12 months with no issues. Great tune, albeit with too much torque IMO. Their DSG tune is ordinary. That said, the UniTronics is better in every way. APR support?...LOL, what support? they take 1 week between emails

[jshwon]

APR makes a good tune but the market has opened up so much that they are no longer THE option. This great for the consumer and I'm personally debating between Unitronic and Uniited Motorsports. Both of which offer a dsg tune. The flash from home is so appealing though.

[Halfbreed]

Is it possible they are out sourcing their TCU tunes now?

[fasts3]

Hmmm... I'm planning for APR Stage3 for my S3 when it launches this spring. But by hearing all these bad experiance with APR TCU, maybe I want Unitronic TCU..
Will stage3 tuned + unitronic TCU mess up anything?

[matsayswhat]

wasting your time? this is an a3/s3 forum right? freakin apr fanboys crying when their beloved tuner gets called out for sucking donkey balls. if your that butthurt go get some ointment from apr and rub it in hard

He's right though. As if your abuse of the English language wasn't enough to completely discount any and all of the bile you spew across the keyboard, I swear that I've seen you post more negative stuff about APR than anyone else in any of the 8V subforums across the Internet.

APR is far from my favorite tuner, but it seems like either you're the one that is butthurt or maybe you're shilling for another tuner... Maybe both? Or do you just like to stir the pot? If that's the case I think I'd actually be OK with it if you just owned it rather than calling anyone that identifies your behavior a fanboy.

[judochop]

Mark suffers from reactive disorder coupled with an inability of self control. Mark see's "APR", has an emotional overreaction that leads to an uncontrollable rant, demonstrated numerous times, sadly. Most people see his behavior as vindictive and obnoxious, unfortunately, people who demonstrate these tendencies have real issues with their coping mechanisms and have great difficulty in "letting go" and "moving on" to better places in life. His own inability to see himself and his actions causes everyone including his family great pain while watching the train wreck he has become. Mark it's time for you to get some help buddy.

[GramCracker]

Just letting this stuff slide is not the right approach IMHO, they need to be transparent and informative when these issues pop up or they'll lose TCU tune customers.

I'm amazed people still buy products from APR.

[HurrayFive]

Never had a major problem w/ any of APR's software, and so far not a large enough concern to make it worth a switch. I think some folks, whom have owned and tuned multiple DI turbo vehicles, generally know what to expect. Others whom are new to tuning are sometimes shocked at the aspects that get changed when asking significantly more out of the vehicle over stock.

As some others have noticed, when I was only stage 1 (no TCU tune available then), I did feel it was a bit "punchy", it was closer to an on/off switch in terms of power delivery compared to stock, which had a very linear delivery. After adding the downpipe and going stage 2, all of that went away, spool, power delivery, all of it was much much smoother and to me better than stock in every way.

With any tune, regardless of brand, you've usually got to relearn the throttle. Stock, the throttle sensitivity leaves something to be desired IMO, stage 1 went too far in one direction in that sense, stage 2 was just right. Again though, once I had the TCU tune added, I had to relearn the throttle once again to suit the setup.

Stage 2 without the TCU tune in Sport mode was a tad ridiculous, gears hung for their lives even when less than half throttle, and a quick throttle blip had inconsistent results. After the TCU tune, in Sport mode, I love that when I'm less than half throttle, you get quick upshifts to the next gear and gentle acceleration, like you'd expect. Keep the throttle at 50%+ and Sport mode does exactly as you'd expect, it holds onto revs in every gear, quick throttle punches drop a gear and go exactly as you'd expect, and full throttle upshifts are timed perfectly to place you squarely in the best part of the power curve in the next gear.

Some of the comments I've read across the forums are quickly after people have gotten these TCU tunes and it doesn't seem like they take the revised throttle mapping into account, and because it's not what they were used to before, cry fowl and get out of the product. APR, or Uni, or [name your vendor here] are never going to make everyone happy because everyone has different expectations in their head of what they think the software should do. For every 5 upset customers, there's probably 100 that are just as content as me (again, vendor agnostic). Take this stuff with a grain of salt is all.

[markn1689]

I'm amazed people still buy products from APR.

werd.

[JohnnyUtah787]

Never had a major problem w/ any of APR's software, and so far not a large enough concern to make it worth a switch. I think some folks, whom have owned and tuned multiple DI turbo vehicles, generally know what to expect. Others whom are new to tuning are sometimes shocked at the aspects that get changed when asking significantly more out of the vehicle over stock.

As some others have noticed, when I was only stage 1 (no TCU tune available then), I did feel it was a bit "punchy", it was closer to an on/off switch in terms of power delivery compared to stock, which had a very linear delivery. After adding the downpipe and going stage 2, all of that went away, spool, power delivery, all of it was much much smoother and to me better than stock in every way.

With any tune, regardless of brand, you've usually got to relearn the throttle. Stock, the throttle sensitivity leaves something to be desired IMO, stage 1 went too far in one direction in that sense, stage 2 was just right. Again though, once I had the TCU tune added, I had to relearn the throttle once again to suit the setup.

Stage 2 without the TCU tune in Sport mode was a tad ridiculous, gears hung for their lives even when less than half throttle, and a quick throttle blip had inconsistent results. After the TCU tune, in Sport mode, I love that when I'm less than half throttle, you get quick upshifts to the next gear and gentle acceleration, like you'd expect. Keep the throttle at 50%+ and Sport mode does exactly as you'd expect, it holds onto revs in every gear, quick throttle punches drop a gear and go exactly as you'd expect, and full throttle upshifts are timed perfectly to place you squarely in the best part of the power curve in the next gear.

Some of the comments I've read across the forums are quickly after people have gotten these TCU tunes and it doesn't seem like they take the revised throttle mapping into account, and because it's not what they were used to before, cry fowl and get out of the product. APR, or Uni, or [name your vendor here] are never going to make everyone happy because everyone has different expectations in their head of what they think the software should do. For every 5 upset customers, there's probably 100 that are just as content as me (again, vendor agnostic). Take this stuff with a grain of salt is all.

How long have you had the TCU tune? I'm curious to know if you've encountered the same "adaptation" a few others have mentioned on here (i.e. tune performed well at first but then began behaving differently and less-desirably after some time).

[markn1689]

lol if you actually read the post it is not an adaption issue...

"19 Feb On a different note, I was driving today at 30mph at work and all the sudden the car lost power and started downshifting. I hit the gas and it slowed down even more, it wouldn't accelerate at all, it went from 30mph to like 8 or 10mph." -user: 1998GTIVR6

"I'm having the same issues....Definitely unpleasant feeling when you are launching hard and one second later the rpms drop fast and then begin to rev up again. Its like a whiplash! hopefully APR can chime in. I'm running Stage I 93 octane (not v2.2) with DSG tune."-user: DVIPER11

"Actually 4k is high without sticky tires and a good surface. 5k is downright nuts.
We usually suggest about 3500 as a good medium." -Sean from APR

Why do they make a TCU tune that launches the car over 5k rpms if it is "downright nuts"? Then he recommends launches at an rpm lower than stock?
makes no damn sense.

[HurrayFive]

How long have you had the TCU tune? I'm curious to know if you've encountered the same "adaptation" a few others have mentioned on here (i.e. tune performed well at first but then began behaving differently and less-desirably after some time).

Septemberish? Have put almost 4K miles on the car since then.

The DSG has some very capable software behind it, stock or modified, that adapts to your driving style over time. I've always driven in Sport, and the S3 has not been my daily driver since August, so the entire time I've had the TCU tune, I've driven probably ~90% in Sport, the rest in Manual. I've not noticed any change in behavior over this time. The few folks I've seen across the forums who seem to notice a change spend most of their time in Normal (D), which could be innate to the DSG learning algorithms.

I remember the first month I had the TCU tune that it took some serious adjustment on throttle input. Sport never behaved like you'd expect before the TCU tune, so I got used to being very light on the throttle. Now I can be light in Sport and have a civil car that upshifts like you'd expect when you're barely pressing the pedal, and I can force it to go full tilt by diving anywhere past 50%. None of this has changed over the past 6 months or so, but it was an adjustment initially. To me, this is how Sport should have behaved from the factory. Just because I want to hold gears to redline when I'm deep into the throttle doesn't mean I want the same when barely pressing the pedal.

[JohnnyUtah787]

lol if you actually read the post it is not an adaption issue...

"19 Feb On a different note, I was driving today at 30mph at work and all the sudden the car lost power and started downshifting. I hit the gas and it slowed down even more, it wouldn't accelerate at all, it went from 30mph to like 8 or 10mph." -user: 1998GTIVR6

"I'm having the same issues....Definitely unpleasant feeling when you are launching hard and one second later the rpms drop fast and then begin to rev up again. Its like a whiplash! hopefully APR can chime in. I'm running Stage I 93 octane (not v2.2) with DSG tune."-user: DVIPER11

"Actually 4k is high without sticky tires and a good surface. 5k is downright nuts.
We usually suggest about 3500 as a good medium." -Sean from APR

Why do they make a TCU tune that launches the car over 5k rpms if it is "downright nuts"? Then he recommends launches at an rpm lower than stock?
makes no damn sense.

I did read the original post from the vwvortex forum, but my question was directed specifically at HurrayFive. It sounds like HurrayFive has been fairly happy with the TCU tune, but I'm curious to know if he's had it as long as roadrunner_oz. On one had you have the "adaptation" issue roadrunner_oz has discussed, and on the other hand you have the issue the OP (and a couple others) have discussed in the vwvortex thread. I'm not questioning anything from the vwvortex thread. Maybe you should read more carefully.

[JohnnyUtah787]

Septemberish? Have put almost 4K miles on the car since then.

The DSG has some very capable software behind it, stock or modified, that adapts to your driving style over time. I've always driven in Sport, and the S3 has not been my daily driver since August, so the entire time I've had the TCU tune, I've driven probably ~90% in Sport, the rest in Manual. I've not noticed any change in behavior over this time. The few folks I've seen across the forums who seem to notice a change spend most of their time in Normal (D), which could be innate to the DSG learning algorithms.

I remember the first month I had the TCU tune that it took some serious adjustment on throttle input. Sport never behaved like you'd expect before the TCU tune, so I got used to being very light on the throttle. Now I can be light in Sport and have a civil car that upshifts like you'd expect when you're barely pressing the pedal, and I can force it to go full tilt by diving anywhere past 50%. None of this has changed over the past 6 months or so, but it was an adjustment initially. To me, this is how Sport should have behaved from the factory. Just because I want to hold gears to redline when I'm deep into the throttle doesn't mean I want the same when barely pressing the pedal.

Thanks Hurray.

[HurrayFive]

lol if you actually read the post it is not an adaption issue...

"19 Feb On a different note, I was driving today at 30mph at work and all the sudden the car lost power and started downshifting. I hit the gas and it slowed down even more, it wouldn't accelerate at all, it went from 30mph to like 8 or 10mph." -user: 1998GTIVR6

"I'm having the same issues....Definitely unpleasant feeling when you are launching hard and one second later the rpms drop fast and then begin to rev up again. Its like a whiplash! hopefully APR can chime in. I'm running Stage I 93 octane (not v2.2) with DSG tune."-user: DVIPER11

"Actually 4k is high without sticky tires and a good surface. 5k is downright nuts.
We usually suggest about 3500 as a good medium." -Sean from APR

Why do they make a TCU tune that launches the car over 5k rpms if it is "downright nuts"? Then he recommends launches at an rpm lower than stock?
makes no damn sense.

I have mine set at 3500/4000/4500. That means 3500RPM launch if you hold the throttle at 50%, 4000RPM launch if you hold the throttle at 100%, and 4500RPM if you press the kickdown switch to the floor.

On the stock Contis (which I had worn to the wear bars), the 4500RPM launch would spin all 4 tires for a second or two before hauling ass. At my 15K service I had them throw on a new set of Michelin Pilot Super Sport's...at 4500RPM those things GRIP and pull your teeth out. The launch is violently fast and the fastest of the 3 settings.

I'll try to snag a vid this week or next weekend, I've never had any of the stalling or stuttering problems they've mentioned. The car MOVES with the new tires and that 4500RPM launch point. I'm on the 91 octane tune.

[gp813]

I have mine set at 3500/4000/4500. That means 3500RPM launch if you hold the throttle at 50%, 4000RPM launch if you hold the throttle at 100%, and 4500RPM if you press the kickdown switch to the floor.

On the stock Contis (which I had worn to the wear bars), the 4500RPM launch would spin all 4 tires for a second or two before hauling ass. At my 15K service I had them throw on a new set of Michelin Pilot Super Sport's...at 4500RPM those things GRIP and pull your teeth out. The launch is violently fast and the fastest of the 3 settings.

I'll try to snag a vid this week or next weekend, I've never had any of the stalling or stuttering problems they've mentioned. The car MOVES with the new tires and that 4500RPM launch point. I'm on the 91 octane tune.

Gonna try setting my launch points to yours and see if theres any difference for me. Currently have mine at 3/4/5k respectively. Since moving to PSS i have not been left wanting in the traction department.

[markn1689]

I did read the original post from the vwvortex forum, but my question was directed specifically at HurrayFive. It sounds like HurrayFive has been fairly happy with the TCU tune, but I'm curious to know if he's had it as long as roadrunner_oz. On one had you have the "adaptation" issue roadrunner_oz has discussed, and on the other hand you have the issue the OP (and a couple others) have discussed in the vwvortex thread. I'm not questioning anything from the vwvortex thread. Maybe you should read more carefully.

was meant 4 hurray5

[roadrunner_oz]

With the APR DSG S mode was too annoying to use daily, just always upshifting and downshifting, nver settled... more suited to aggressive open road driving. Changes were also pretty clunky, but that only became noticeable once compared to the UniTronic DSG tune. Also in D mode 1st gear holds for too long resulting in a back & forth rocking movement in city driving. The APR software just doesn't seem to take into account the driver's input in the equation, while the Unitronic's does. IMO the APR isn't that bad, but in comparison to UniTronics it falls short.

[InTTruder]

I'm amazed people still buy products from APR.

Over 35K miles on APR Stage 2+ TTRS tune. Never had a single CEL, and still making a happy 435 whp and 465 wtq.

[GramCracker]

Over 35K miles on APR Stage 2+ TTRS tune. Never had a single CEL, and still making a happy 435 whp and 465 wtq.

Glad you've been satisfied with your experience so far and haven't had the unfortunate luck that others have.

[fasts3]

So finally APR heard us and new updated software came out..

http://www.goapr.com/products/tcu_up...dq250_mqb.html

hope this update will fix the issues

[markn1689]

So finally APR heard us and new updated software came out..

http://www.goapr.com/products/tcu_up...dq250_mqb.html

hope this update will fix the issues

APR releasing new updates is a poor excuse to visit your tuner and cough up another 200$ to have them update your ecu

[VW2Audi25]

I can't believe that in this day of age where you can flash tunes yourself (ED and Unitronic) people are still going with APR and shelling out "upgrade" and re-flash dollars. I would understand if it was proven to be safer, or had better performance.

[jl87]

All upgrades from APR are free. Also if you're on good terms with your installer then there will be no labor either as it is a simple port flash and about 15 minutes.

Edit: Updates for existing customers are free, upgrades/enhancements will cost.

[roadrunner_oz]

All upgrades from APR are free. Also if you're on good terms with your installer then there will be no labor either as it is a simple port flash and about 15 minutes.

I have always had to pay for flash/unflash even if a fix. This is not an upgrade, it is a fix. It wasn't done properly the first time.

[markn1689]

All upgrades from APR are free. Also if you're on good terms with your installer then there will be no labor either as it is a simple port flash and about 15 minutes.

Edit: Updates for existing customers are free, upgrades/enhancements will cost.

the update may be free but the tuners time is not and you WILL be charged for that.. i've seen tuners charge around 1-200$ for this so called 'free update'

[jl87]

That's rough, sorry to hear that. Maybe we're lucky around here in that aspect.

[will13k7]

a local tuner shop around here charges $75 to reflash, their time isn't free, it is what it is. Fortunately I've only had to reflash my other car once after audi had to wipe my tune to apply an update.

[phillyquattro]

There are also tuners that charge a one time fee. I spoke to one shop in my area and they charge $80 for unlimited updates/flash backs. That being said I do agree that in 2016 being able to flash from home yourself is table stakes. You should also be able to use a Mac or a PC. Unfortunately the automotive tuning world has a loooong way to go.

[markn1689]

There are also tuners that charge a one time fee. I spoke to one shop in my area and they charge $80 for unlimited updates/flash backs. That being said I do agree that in 2016 being able to flash from home yourself is table stakes. You should also be able to use a Mac or a PC. Unfortunately the automotive tuning world has a loooong way to go.

unitronic is there. users can download software updates for free. and flash in their garage.
go unitronic!

[JohnnyUtah787]

unitronic is there. users can download software updates for free. and flash in their garage.
go unitronic!

Eurodyne as well.