B7 A4 subframe crossmember bracket TTY bolt question

[wesalexleft]

I'm getting ready to replace the motor mounts in my A4 B7 Quattro Cabrio and from a good DIY found here, it looks like it's a lot easier to loosen the subframe brackets from below to allow additional room for mount removal. I've also found that the bolts securing the brackets are TTY. That being the case, I'd like to order the bolts in advance, but I've found a few discrepancies as to the number and size of the bolts. This is a 2009 A4 Quattro Cabrio, which is a carry over B7 from the 2008 model year. No vendor I've found (other than Audi) sells both of the part numbers below, but I've found both listed as bolts separately from vendors. N90956803 (longer) and N90663002 (shorter). Some posts have said two bolts each side, where another has said three. One post said all three were the same, using N90956803, and another post saying theirs had both shorter and longer bolts. Since the bolts aren't cheap, I don't want to order several of each to be sure i have them, with some left over. Anyone know for sure which is the safe number and part number for bolts needed? I'd prefer to replace the TTY bolts.

thanks,

[grassrootz]

If you can't find it in the manual or blow up diagrams. Why not just buy all 3 and make sure you can return the unused? Better to pull them match them and return the unneeded ones.

Plus why are you even considering moving subframe bolts? That will definitely mess with alignment just get a jack under the oil pan with a wooden block between and give yourself the inch or two you'd get with the subframe drop.

Just my $.02

[wesalexleft]

The TTY bolts average $5-$7 each. I didn't want to stock up on them and end up with many that I didn't use. I've seen several posts, some people are lifting the motor, but others are also lowering the brackets in order to get the mounts removed and reinstalled. I'm not sure which I'll go with until I get there, but it looks like to clear the mounting bolts, you'll need a bit of room, and may run into problems by lifting the motor alone.

[APR_Fast]

I ordered these when i did my mounts. When i get home from the office I'll check PNs to verify unless someone else chimes in.

If you do decide to go this route, DO NOT take out all the bolts at once. This will cause the subframe to drop, and like grassrootz said, mess with aligning everything back up. It's ok to take the two shorter bolts out first and loosen the longer one to take the mount out. Align the mount, replace the two shorter bolts and then take the long bolt out so the subframe doesn't drop.

[wesalexleft]

That would be awesome and thanks. I really just need to confirm how many bolts per side, and of those, how many long and how many short. Part number confirmation is just icing and on the cake.

I'm hoping I don't need to remove them, but want to be prepared for it, just in case.
Thanks again.

[grassrootz]

Ah yea $5-$7 is pretty ridiculous for "one time use" bolts. But I agree with APR_FAST that would be the best way to preserve your alignment which could still shift if you loosen them all. I would say only loosen one side at a time and make to fully re-torque everything before going to the other side.

I just think you should try the easy way first before messing with the more difficult avenues.

Is it #12 and #13 bolts?



Part Number: N90956803 #12
Part Number: N90956702 #13

[wesalexleft]

Agreed that I really hope I can get the mounts out by lifting the engine alone. I'd seen a few threads where some people had issue with connectors and lines being pulled tight while lifting. I'll be lifting using a floor jack by the oil pan, which makes me a little nervous already. #12 is definitely one, I'm also coming up with N09663002 which is a M10X70.

[APR_Fast]

N90956803 x2 - the longer bolt
N90663002 x4 - the shorter bolt

http://genuineaudiparts.com/parts/20...iagram=1398495

#13 on grassrootz post is the one of the bolts for the cross member for the tranny mount

[wesalexleft]

Awesome and thanks...this is just what I was looking for. So two shorter and one longer per side? I'll go ahead and order these up. Hopefully, I'll end up not using them and have 35.00 dollars worth of personal "shop supplies". I should be ready able to get the mounts replaced in the next few weeks, and I'll update how it went.

Thanks to all for the help.

[APR_Fast]

Awesome and thanks...this is just what I was looking for. So two shorter and one longer per side? I'll go ahead and order these up. Hopefully, I'll end up not using them and have 35.00 dollars worth of personal "shop supplies". I should be ready able to get the mounts replaced in the next few weeks, and I'll update how it went.

Thanks to all for the help.

Yup. The two shorter ones are easy. The longer one can be a pain and probably have to take out the breaker bar for it. Last thing you want is your subframe rattling around. If you go this route, I'll check Bentley for torque settings. Good luck and make sure you have at 13mm stubby wrench for the upper bolt on the mount under the turbo (assuming you have a 2.0t)

[yfzcentral]

Quick help please.

Are these the two bolts? This is on the passenger side looking back towards the rear.

[wesalexleft]

Those do look like the sub-frame bolts, but I ended up not having to loosen or remove them for the motor mounts. The trick is to remove the nuts from the mounts that you can easily reach first. For the driver's side, this was the top mount nut, and then for the passenger side, the lower nut(seen in your pics). Afterward, I raised the motor using a floor jack until I could reach top nut on the passenger side easily. It's still a bit of a test of dexterity to loosen the top passenger mount nut, but with a ratcheting subby, it took about 10 minutes. That lets you finish well ahead of removing the sway bar, TTY bolts from the sub-frame, and then having to reassemble everything. After removing all the nuts from the mounts, I raised the motor until both mounts were removed. In this way, I was able to leave the sway bar, and sub-frame bolts in place. If you go this route, just keep an eye on the motor clearance against the firewall. At first, the motor goes almost straight upward. then, as the transmission mounts come into play, the motor continues to go up, but also tilts backwards a bit, and things get tight between the firewall, and the aux vacuum pump on the back of the cams. No problem with mine, but just be careful.