APR vs UniTronic ECU & DSG tunes

[roadrunner_oz]

APR vs UniTronic ECU & DSG tunes

APR:
- The APR ECU S1 (98 RON) produces 265kW and 515Nm (kW was confirmed on a dyno I did back in 2015). The APR Oz site claims more power, however it is the APR US site that is accurate.
- The APR DSG tune is aimed at improving DSG shift points in all modes, raised LC RPM’s, faster shifts etc
- Flash type tune that can only be performed at an APR agent
- Tune is VIN locked for life
- Flash counter preserved on ECU(not convinced), not on TCU

UniTronics:
- The ECU S1+ (98 RON) produces 279kW and 475Nm.
- The DSG tune is aimed at improving DSG shift points in all modes, raised LC RPM’s, faster shifts etc.
- Flash type tune that can be performed at UniTronic agent OR at home using your laptop if you purchase their USB 2.0/OBD2 cable.
- Tune is VIN locked for life
- Flash counter not preserved on ECU or TCU
- Free updates - no agent install fee with DIY cable
- Engine & DSG protection as requires operating temps to be achieved



---------------HP- lb ft - Kw - Nm
APR-----------355 380 264 515
UniTroniic----375 350 279 475
Variance---- 20 -30 15 -41


Background:
I have had the APR ECU S1 tune for about 1 year and it has been a great tune and had no issues. The APR DSG tune was installed in September and initially it was a great transformation over stock DSG behaviour, HOWEVER recently it began to ‘re-adapt’ and develop some very annoying behaviour. This included rushing upshift from 4th to 6th in D; constantly switching between 3rd and 4th in S mode when on and off the throttle. To date APR support has not been of much assistance and has vaguely stated that it is a DSG adaption issue out of their control and re-flashing wouldn’t resolve it.
Frustrated, I decided to dump the DSG tune. I also decided to swap the ECU tune as I always had reservations about the very high torque output and the impact it would have on the transmission in the long-term.
I looked towards UniTronic as they have the home DIY flash tuning option, which is the method I’d used on my previous cars with great success. Also, their tune offers a higher power output and lower torque which I thought may serve the S3 better.

Install of UniTronic:
So I went the DIY option with my laptop and the UniTronic cable (internet connection required). The software install etc is all very straight forward as is the use of their software. Truly idiot proof!
Time to flash ECU was 15mins, TCU was 8mins. Pretty much the same time as APR at the shop.




Initial UniTronic review:
So early days as only had it installed for 200km which was a mix of traffic and aggressive country driving.
ECU tune:
- Can't feel the impact of the lower torque. Certainly delivers the ‘punch’ that you'd expect.
- Top end is better and feels to continue to rev freely and pull up to red line.
- Linear in delivery especially in the higher rev range. Power is nice and progressive. The biggest difference is how freely and smoothly it climbs through the entire revs range.
- Throttle response is great, as was APR's.
- Compared to APR it is, just smoother and more refined. The APR tune feels very boosty and wild, sort of on/off feel, which certainly isn't a bad thing and can be more exciting. Best way to say it is the APR definitely has that "tuned" feel.
DSG tune:
Well this was always going to be interesting, as APR agent said re-flashing wouldn’t resolve my problems…. Well that's utter BS!! Problems were solved! The UniTronic has transformed the DSG again, just hope it lasts.
- In D mode:
o Great shift points. It re-acts far better to driving style and throttle position in applying the appropriate shifts. When cruising in traffic and using light throttle (<20%), it changes up at lower revs, however in moderate throttle (>20%) is marks the shifts higher accordingly. The APR just didn't seem to get this right if at all.
o Doesn't hang in 1st. The APR hung is 1st too long in slow traffic and parking stations etc.
o Doesn't rush the changes to from 4th onwards like the APR tune does. With UniTronic, under light throttle 6th is only selected around 75kph.
o Shifts are noticeably smoother than APR (may be due to lower torque?)
o Aggressive driving is excellent, as was APR's
- In S mode:
o Same as APR in that is doesn’t hold gears too long, especially in 2nd.
o As with D, it is far better a matching shifts to driving style than APR.
o Smoother shifts. APR could be clunky.
o Less confusion in gear selection than APR. The APR would constantly change up and down at certain speeds on small throttle inputs.
- M mode:
o Not much different here. Allows rev limiter to be hit & removes kick down etc
o Seems slightly quicker to respond to paddles and less clunky.

Initial Conclusion:
There’s nothing in it performance wise between the ECU tunes, both are excellent and very quick! Overall I am very pleased, although time will tell re the DSG adaption. I certainly would NOT recommend the APR DSG tune though due to the way it changes shift points over time, constant jumping shifts in S, and is rougher on the changes compared to UniTronic. The Unitronic also shifts according to driving style, which I never felt with the APR DSG tune.

I really like the fact that I can now control my own flashing process at home and easily get updates etc without having to go to a tuner and pay $$$ for their time or wait for APR Australia to decide on releasing updates. I can also unflash for dealer visits and although the flash counter is incremented, there seem no reports of this automatically raising a TD1 to date. I am also sceptical of APR preserving the flash counter as through VCDS my ECU flash counter incremented by 1 after APR was removed!?!

So to sum up, I'd say the UniTronic will probably be kept after the 15 day trial period and I won't be going back to APR as the way things stand. The APR is in no way superior, let alone worth $1800 AUD more. Furthermore, apparently APR Australia modifies/tweaks their versions of the APR USA tunes, which IMO undermines all the R&D of the original USA tune. If APR want to stay competitive in the tuning game they'd be wise to release a DIY cable as the game has changed, as well as admit when there is an issue with their tune as there is with the DSG tune (reported by multiple people).

[will13k7]

The TCU, when adapting to your driving style, led to weird shifting patterns? That sucks APR couldn't just disable that adapting. Nice review, bummer Uni doesn't have stage-2 with 91 octane for us CA folks.

[949]

cant wait to see the long term of the DSG maping.

how long did it take for the apr version to start to go wrong?

[roadrunner_oz]

cant wait to see the long term of the DSG maping.

how long did it take for the apr version to start to go wrong?

About 2 months. However fellow S3 owners in Oz experienced the issue right away. I do not think it is an adaption issue, but rather it is what it is

[949]

I see.

as for the new setup by uni, will the dsg map work well with out the engine tune?
I am fine with the stock power. I just want the transmission to work well in traffic drives. what do you feel about that? will it be fine ?

[roadrunner_oz]

I see.

as for the new setup by uni, will the dsg map work well with out the engine tune?
I am fine with the stock power. I just want the transmission to work well in traffic drives. what do you feel about that? will it be fine ?

I drive slow Sydney traffic each day. The current UniTrinic setup will be very suitable, the APR began to suck as per my review.

I track my car, so may get their S2 DSG so I can remove the kick down in M

[15WhiteA3]

I will be keeping an eye on this thread for a little, trying to decide the same things you were. Leaning towards the unitronic tune as of now but the deal on apr had me interested too.

[coolwater]

Good detailed review. I'm waiting for eurodyne tcu tune to be avaliable. Tune from home is definitely the way to go.

-cW

[roadrunner_oz]

Good detailed review. I'm waiting for eurodyne tcu tune to be avaliable. Tune from home is definitely the way to go.

-cW

Yes. A fellow S3 owner who I have done some VCDS coding for called me yesterday as he had his DSG fail (red & yellow transmission malfunction light) on him 150km from home. Now he had just got the APR DSG tune loaded 2 weeks early and I NOT saying the tune caused the failure, however he could not call Audi Roadside Assist to tow the vehicle as would trigger a TD1 (had the ECU tune too), but required private tow to first get the tunes unloaded at the APR agent. Being in control of your own flashing is far more hassle free.

Eurodyne looks good, but no matching DSG.

[ModdedEuros]

Glad you are liking the Unitronic tune. We are big fans. Especially being able to just flash right at home on top of the diagnostic capabilities.

[JohnnyUtah787]

I have been on the fence between Uni and APR, but this review has definitely been helpful. Have a dealer near me that does both, just need to pick one. Am leaning towards Uni for the flash from home capabilities in case I am ever not near a dealer. Would also be interested in later reviews of the Uni DSG tune. Curious to see if it also adapts like the APR one did. Hopefully not. In regards to the APR DSG tune, I know you mentioned others have had similar experience, do you have any links to their stories readily available? Otherwise I'll just do a search. Thanks.

[roadrunner_oz]

I have been on the fence between Uni and APR, but this review has definitely been helpful. Have a dealer near me that does both, just need to pick one. Am leaning towards Uni for the flash from home capabilities in case I am ever not near a dealer. Would also be interested in later reviews of the Uni DSG tune. Curious to see if it also adapts like the APR one did. Hopefully not. In regards to the APR DSG tune, I know you mentioned others have had similar experience, do you have any links to their stories readily available? Otherwise I'll just do a search. Thanks.

Well APR's reason to adaption was the % spent in each mode.
Mine was:
M =10%
D = 71%
S = 19%

My argument is that pre the DSG tune is S would have close to <5%, as just not practical in OE form. So actually driven more in S since the tune.

My response was that the primary reason for the DSG tune was that I could make D mode more enjoyable. Take it all with a pinch of salt as they also said re-flashing wouldn't change the DSG behaviour which it has done. The great thing with Uni is that it shifts according to your driving style. In sedate city driving it just a bit better than OE, but under moderate throttle it up's the shift points immediately. APR just doesn't vary.

[judochop]

Thanks for the adult discussion above without all the usual brand bashing B.S.

Here's a letter I recently sent to the great guys that work on my car. I can't speak for anyone else, but the driving experience with the OEM file is very good and doesn't need modification. The only issues Ive had, are with a tune. Letter below.

First off, I’d like to thank you and your team for your excellent service and technical knowledge. Achtuning has earned my business for the long haul.

As you know I have the APR stage 1 ECU flash and the APR TCU software installed on my 2015 Audi S3 sedan. I purchased the TCU software to assist in the quality and drivability of the vehicle after I had purchased the Stage 1 file. Initially the TCU software made a noticeable improvement in drivability but the shift points in “regular non spirited driving” seemed quite low in sport mode which took some time getting used to. Some points of concern have come up that perhaps APR might want to look at. I noticed that the Transmission wanted to upshift almost every time I just started to apply the accelerator while cruising. Then as time went on, the shift seemed to make a “thunk” hard shift sound while upshifting under 1/2 throttle acceleration. This issue was even more prevalent after the stage 1 v.2.2 ECU upgrade. Another point, when cruising along at 38 miles per hour the TCU couldn’t find a happy spot and would be constantly shifting between 3rd and 4th gear, seemed a little hyperactive. Then the throttle delay began, the DSG first gear engagement from a stop perceptively worsened over the time it was installed. I would put my foot on the gas, the engine would rev, but it took longer than normal (oem) to get the car moving.

After removing the TCU software this week and flashing back to stock all symptoms have been corrected.

Technical issue;
1. Hyperactive shifting between 3&4
2. Hard shift under 1/2 throttle + acceleration.
3. Increased delay engagement of the transmission from a stop as the software aged.
4. Zero improvement from clutch slippage when launching.

Aside from any technical info. Just my opinion, the shift points in sport mode under normal driving were far less than optimal. Took the sport out of "sport mode”.

At this point I will be keeping the TCU as “stock”. I’m not asking for a refund (past any trial period) for the product but I certainly want to share with you and your team my experience.



Kind regards,

[selp]

Just sad they haven't released 2016 ECU tunes yet. :(
Thanks for the input, I am currently waiting for the release so I can tune. I do like seeing more and more people happy with Uni.

[markn1689]

grats on the upgrade. had no idea APR raped Australia like that. enjoy tuning from the comfort of your garage. +1 for Uni!

[HurrayFive]

Thanks for a non-bashing and fair write up OP, glad you're enjoying Uni so far. My car is a Frankenstein of brands, whatever serves the purpose best.

I've had no problems with stage 2 and the TCU tune from APR, but I have noticed the DSG's indecisive nature when it comes to selecting a gear in S.

Pre-tune (and when I was only stage 1), I always drove in S or M because D just jumped for 6th all the time. I got used to stock S, once you're familiar with its tendencies it's not so bad, except for that willingness to hold 2nd until the end of time.

After the jump to stage 2 and the TCU flash, I thought S was perfect with the exception of the bouncing between gears. It seems like APR wrote their algorithms based on vehicle speed as opposed to throttle load. At 54MPH in S it stays in 4th, get to 55MPH and it jumps to 5th, dip back to 54MPH and you're back in 4th, regardless of how light you're on the throttle. With the stock TCU, speed was less a factor as was throttle input. It can get annoying on the right road, but overall it's still a huge improvement. Shifts are instantly quick, they are fast stock, stupid fast now. When I was stage 1 w/ the stock TCU, half throttle squirts would have wierd results in S, unpredictable. After the TCU flash, it seems to always do as you'd expect.

I mention all of that because both stock and after the flashes, I'm pretty much always in S (D is reserved for highway cruising, and now that this isn't my daily driver, that's basically never), so I'm curious how that affects the "learning" of the TCU. Maybe mine has played particularly nice because I'm always in S, and that better aligns with the "method" APR has taken for the adjustments. Food for thought anyway, good luck with the Uni tunes!

[JohnnyUtah787]

Really great info here, thanks everyone. Definitely leaning towards Uni.

[m3brad]

subscribed

[ECP]

subscribed

+2

[kyromillar85]

+3


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[jshwon]

Thanks for your review. I go back and forth about this all the time. The flash at home (or where ever you have an internet connection) is very appealing. I had Eurodyne with my MK7 GTI and loved the freedom. Even though I know all these tunes are pretty much on par with each other power wise I just hope to not be losing much if I were to go Unitronic vs APR or even GIAC. Although the lower torque numbers should help with transmission longevity.

[selp]

Has anyone compared 1/4 mile times with the ECU tune and no DSG, then with a DSG tune?
Id be interested to see if the tune helps the times, and if so, how much? ..

[roadrunner_oz]

Thanks for your review. I go back and forth about this all the time. The flash at home (or where ever you have an internet connection) is very appealing. I had Eurodyne with my MK7 GTI and loved the freedom. Even though I know all these tunes are pretty much on par with each other power wise I just hope to not be losing much if I were to go Unitronic vs APR or even GIAC. Although the lower torque numbers should help with transmission longevity.

There isn't much between the ECU tunes as far as performance, perhaps UniT is just a bit more refined. As I stated in OP, it has less of a "tuned" feel to it and seems smoother and >4500rpm it seems more willing... just depends on your preference. I'd be happy with either. In a straight line I doubt there'd be anything in it.

[jshwon]

There isn't much between the ECU tunes as far as performance, perhaps UniT is just a bit more refined. As I stated in OP, it has less of a "tuned" feel to it and seems smoother and >4500rpm it seems more willing... just depends on your preference. I'd be happy with either. In a straight line I doubt there'd be anything in it.

This is true. I see over on Vortex that people are saying that APR's version 2.2 just released feels less punchy. That it feels more linear like you describe Uni. Although they seem to be having some issues with it already with users reporting and APR acknowledging boost drop between shifts etc. Probably can't go wrong with either and it comes down to preference and convenience. Haven't heard many issues with Unitronic though.

[RyanS3]

Nice to see Uni getting the respect they deserve. Good write up.

[roadrunner_oz]

Still going strong :)

Great tune Uni

[andrewvu514]

Really great info here, thanks everyone. Definitely leaning towards Uni.

+1!!!

[kyromillar85]

How is the UT DSG tune holding up over time?? Any issues with reverting back to OEM, gears slipping, etc...


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[roadrunner_oz]

How is the UT DSG tune holding up over time?? Any issues with reverting back to OEM, gears slipping, etc...


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Put on around 500km now. The Uni DSG tune is solid. I keep it mostly in S mode as for me it is the most usable. No complaints, no slippage, no thud shifts, no WTF moments.

[aj6]

APR DSG tune here for over 10,000 miles. No complaints! Looking forward to continuing revisions that add new features too!

[kyromillar85]

Ordering Unitronic's tune after service in couple weeks. Still loving it?


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[roadrunner_oz]

Ordering Unitronic's tune after service in couple weeks. Still loving it?


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After 5000km and a few track days the Uni tunes have performed faultlessly. Very happy with tune and customer service.

[roadrunner_oz]

Yet another happy APR customer :)

APR breaking engines

[Baggio]

Yet another happy APR customer :)

APR breaking engines

I will watch the video later when I have time. But could you give me cliff notes on why they know the APR tune damaged the engine? Was it running lean?

[Baggio]

OK, so I saw the thread about this in the 8V Audi S3 Owners Group on FB. There is all kind of confusion going on with this incident. At first he tried to blame the Denso plugs. It also was running a TTE custom turbo and tune at the track when the "incident" occurred. He also stated he had catastrophic engine damage, but in the same thread he said he runs 100% fine, makes power fine. I guess the cylinder 4 shows some sort of piston damage. It looks like he just got treated like crap by the UK APR dealers on the incident. Labeling APR is breaking engines based on this incident is almost is pretty much click bait. Who knows what happened here, but putting blame on tune for breaking an engine, when the guy himself, says it runs fine is definitely a misnomer.

[markn1689]

<was here

[will13k7]

I don't know what to make of Dandanfings's car problems, pretty shitty situation, and it's a fellow modder down, but one things for sure, his cylinder issues could of been due to multiple things and I personally would not attempt to start blaming companies like Denso and Apr when it's pretty much impossible to pin it on anyone. Of course that upset some people and he was surprized by it, so I tried to give some perspective:

playing devil's advocate:

maybe it's because it kind of looks like you are blasting a tuning company without any indisputable evidence their product led to your cylinder issues when you ran into problems while you were running another company's beta tune that they developed using your car as a test mule with a bigger turbo and in addition it seems you think you should be treated differently than someone who doesn't post reviews on youtube and forums, which might come accross as arrogant to some.

Perhaps that might ruffle a few feathers?

[jiannu]

Of the 2 tuners, it was a no brainer to lean towards UNi.....

cheaper
power more linear
able to tune at home

so I ended up with stage 2 ecu/tcu* at the time , I was told I HAD TO GET TCU stage2 with ECU for 2016* . well I tried it for about a week and coming off of a JB1, besides the smooth power delivery, I could NOT tell much difference besides the $1000 difference....so I reverted back and now I'm waiting for a JB4 to be released in December. It was a pity that I had to flash both ecu/tcu to find that out and now I have screwed myself for future in regards to the flash counter.. oh well

[Baggio]

I don't know what to make of Dandanfings's car problems, pretty shitty situation, and it's a fellow modder down, but one things for sure, his cylinder issues could of been due to multiple things and I personally would not attempt to start blaming companies like Denso and Apr when it's pretty much impossible to pin it on anyone. Of course that upset some people and he was surprized by it, so I tried to give some perspective:

He is also upset that APR wouldn't transfer his tune to a new vehicle. Everyone knows these tunes are linked to VIN and can't be transferred, meaning you would have to purchase a tune for a new vehicle. He thought he should get special treatment in that regard. I wouldn't doubt if that was the main reason he tried blame them publically after requesting to transfer the tune was denied.