Prospective B5 S4 owner

[mosnet99]

I have been looking at a few S4s around the michigan and chicago areas. One with tasteful mods including a stage 2 (no bw turbos or anything like that) and one that is just immaculate and stock. Both are around between 160 - 175K and both are around $5500 to $6000. I have had a B5 A4 for a short time but I'm wondering if anyone can shine some light on what I should be looking for as far as common costly repairs in the near future. Oh yeah I want to include both are manuals and both have had timing belt & water pump done recently.

[DieselElectric]

Buy stock.

[axnjaksn]

^THAT.......id rather have an unmolested vehicle that I could modify how I see fit

[MikeyB3]

Spend more up front on the best one your budget will allow. A solid foundation in which to mod is crucial, as your list of initial maintenance costs will [hopefully] be smaller.

[xalents23]

With any old car you are going to be repairing a lot of stuff down the road. Just be prepared to drop some $$$ to fix the B5 S4. Even if you work on cars parts will add up.

[getslideways]

the one with the least rust

[ajee622]

What's your budget?? You see my car for sale??


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[Zba]

I've got a black 6 speed sedan for sale with BW K04s. PM for details

[audacity]

do your research on the common failures and see if they have any of them. sometimes you get lucky, sometimes you don't.

[mosnet99]

What's your budget?? You see my car for sale??


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My budget is $5500...maybe $6k

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[DieselElectric]

My budget is $5500...maybe $6k

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Keep the A4. Unless you have a couple extra thousand for when the S4 breaks, you will be driving the A4 anyway.

[mosnet99]

Keep the A4. Unless you have a couple extra thousand for when the S4 brakes, you will be driving the A4 anyway.

The A4 I have now is a 2.8 that I have gotten familiar with. If the rest of the car besides the engine is mainly just an A4, are you saying engine problems are common with these and they usually range in the thousands to fix?

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[DieselElectric]

are you saying engine problems are common with these and they usually range in the thousands to fix?

Are you prepared to yank a drivetrain?

[mosnet99]

The A4 I have now needs a complete suspension overhaul front & back, not to mention brakes, wheel bearings, possible rear diff and has rust.

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[mosnet99]

Are you prepared to yank a drivetrain?

For what reason?

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[DieselElectric]

Clutch, turbo, wastegates issues, lifter problems, there's plenty of reasons to yank an engine.

The question isn't if, but when the motor will need to come out. If you can't do it yourself, then yes you are looking a thousands on repairs.

[mosnet99]

Clutch, turbo, wastegates issues, lifter problems, there's plenty of reasons to yank an engine.

The question isn't if, but when the motor will need to come out. If you can't do it yourself, then yes you are looking a thousands on repairs.

I know why drivetrains need to be removed. What I was asking is if I found one with recent service work to the engine & turbos with a good clutch, isn't there some kind of reliability in S4s?? I mean my 2.8 is pretty reliable if the rest of the car besides the engine & trans were not wasting away I'd keep it. But since I was in the market to start fresh I figured I'd go with more power in a S4.

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[mosnet99]

I've seen some pretty well maintained S4s on the market. I want to take heed of the advice but when I got my 2.8 everyone said I should've got a 1.8 but it has been pretty reliable with the previous owner neglecting it. I really just want a good quattro with some power withoit heavy modding needed. I don't mind a costly repair ($2000) every once in a while

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[audacity]

My budget is $5500...maybe $6k

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so your budget its really maybe 4500-5000. since you will not find a car in that price range that will not need some type of work. some of my friends 8000 dollar examples aren't even great either. rule of thumb is most of them will cost you unless you have access to parts cars or junk yards that regularly have them. and do your own work. including pulling the engine and drive train. i think the bently calls for something like almost 8 hours to pull the motor @ a normal shop rate you can see how just the removal of the engine is almost 1000. its not a car that is cheap. never was. and wasn't meant to be. find a 1.8t. more power than the 2.8 and easier to work on in the car.

[kingkhalilz]

These cars are getting old. Be patient even if you spend more. Like said above as stock as you can find.

[mosnet99]

I've seen some pretty well maintained S4s on the market. I want to take heed of the advice but when I got my 2.8 everyone said I should've got a 1.8 but it has been pretty reliable with the previous owner neglecting it. I really just want a good quattro with some power withoit heavy modding needed. I don't mind a costly repair ($2000) every once in a while

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Where are you getting your info from?? A 98-2000 A4 with a 1.8t does NOT have more power. The 1.8t delivers 150hp to the 2.8s 190hp

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[Yuppie]

S4s are reliable. Between the two just see who has taken care of the car more. There are people that modify these cars from stage 1 to 3 however don't beat on them. Then you also have others who modify and ignore simple maintenance and that beat the shit out of their cars. If you have about $1-2k set aside then you'll be fine.

[audacity]

Where are you getting your info from?? A 98-2000 A4 with a 1.8t does NOT have more power. The 1.8t delivers 150hp to the 2.8s 190hp

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never lost to a 2.8 in my a4 i had. even when it was stock...

[mosnet99]

never lost to a 2.8 in my a4 i had. even when it was stock...

That's called driver mod. Not more power

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[c02oil]

Buy the one that is just immaculate and stock

[DieselElectric]

Tuned 1.8>2.8

Seriously though, don't even try to talk down the pain in the ass that a B5S4 will be.

You need either a disposable income or a strong passion and mechanical ability to own one and expect to rely on it.

We're just trying to let you know what you are getting yourself into.

For reference, I spent 8k on mine last year, it has been very reliable IMO, but it would have stranded me a couple times if I didn't know how to diagnose and turn a wrench on the fly.

-Torn throttle body boot, or clear blown off.
-Starter failure after filling up.

Also had:
- wheel bearing go bad
- Diverter valve failure
- (2) MAF replacements (replaced OEM for ~$300)
- Downpipe flex pipe ripped apart
- Motor mounts split in half
- Brake booster hose split
- Countless boost leaks that needed located and repaired on the side of the road.
- Couple torn CV boots
- Timing belt/water pump

Need to do list:

-Valve cover gaskets
-Control arms

All this was on a car with 123k and a stack of maintenance records adding up to the original owner damn near buying the car twice.

I did do a lot more to it, but that doesn't count because it was a want, not a need. Listed are just required repairs.


Just a heads up, if you have a set limit on the budget, might want to check out the 1.8t. I put together a Avant Quattro 1.8 for a friend with a gt2871 elim, and it was a damn fun car. Looking back I'd say it was on par with a stage 2 s4.

[mosnet99]

Tuned 1.8>2.8

Seriously though, don't even try to talk down the pain in the ass that a B5S4 will be.

You need either a disposable income or a strong passion and mechanical ability to own one and expect to rely on it.

We're just trying to let you know what you are getting yourself into.

For reference, I spent 8k on mine last year, it has been very reliable IMO, but it would have stranded me a couple times if I didn't know how to diagnose and turn a wrench on the fly.

-Torn throttle body boot, or clear blown off.
-Starter failure after filling up.

Also had:
- wheel bearing go bad
- Diverter valve failure
- (2) MAF replacements (replaced OEM for ~$300)
- Downpipe flex pipe ripped apart
- Motor mounts split in half
- Brake booster hose split
- Countless boost leaks that needed located and repaired on the side of the road.
- Couple torn CV boots
- Timing belt/water pump

Need to do list:

-Valve cover gaskets
-Control arms

All this was on a car with 123k and a stack of maintenance records adding up to the original owner damn near buying the car twice.

I did do a lot more to it, but that doesn't count because it was a want, not a need. Listed are just required repairs.


Just a heads up, if you have a set limit on the budget, might want to check out the 1.8t. I put together a Avant Quattro 1.8 for a friend with a gt2871 elim, and it was a damn fun car. Looking back I'd say it was on par with a stage 2 s4.

Hmm interesting. So what it sounds like is that its not the 2.7 that's not reliable or the rest of the car(when compared with other b5s) but actually the turbo system that exacerbates the repair cost.

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[jaychen]

if you stay on a stock tune with k03's, run good oil and routinely change it, make sure you dont have boost leaks so they aren't over-boosting, they will last a very long time.

these cars are old and are deteriorating. Even cars that are immaculately maintained have shit that just dies for no reason..

it is what it is.

[88ninety9]

The question isn't if, but when the motor will need to come out.

Isn't that the truth!

Even buying a highly taken care of example, shit still goes terribly wrong. These cars are maintenance pigs, so you should more than likely have a backup and a friend in the towing business

[mosnet99]

if you stay on a stock tune with k03's, run good oil and routinely change it, make sure you dont have boost leaks so they aren't over-boosting, they will last a very long time.

these cars are old and are deteriorating. Even cars that are immaculately maintained have shit that just dies for no reason..

it is what it is.

If its possible to find a tuned 1.8 I probably would consider it. I don't plan on racing it or doing heavy mods...but 150hp in a car over 3000lbs is unacceptable.

[Trb1]

I have a b5 for sale in the west Michigan area that id let go for somewhere in the price range of 8. Sub 100k with tons of maintenance.
Here's the link:
http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/cto/5435378304.html

[Trb1]

Also, k03 cars have a wide range of reliability factors. I've seen stage 2 cars with original turbos that get beaten on all the time last north of 150k miles. Hell. I know of 2 cars locally that have over 140k and have stock original turbos with aggressive stage 2 tunes. I believe the real issue is that boost leaks don't get taken care of and people don't let their cars warm up or cool down properly.

[mosnet99]

I have a b5 for sale in the west Michigan area that id let go for somewhere in the price range of 8. Sub 100k with tons of maintenance.
Here's the link:
http://grandrapids.craigslist.org/cto/5435378304.html

Thanx, but that's pretty far from my price range. Looks great though, what kind of tubing is that that shows through the lower grille covers ?

[DieselElectric]

JHM fmic setup. The pipes can be tucked back a bit more if you spend time on it.

[audacity]

in all reality, 1.8 or 2.7 they are not really at this time in their lives going to be reliable yea the 2.7 seems worse cause the motor has to come out but i still replaced a blow ko3 in my a4 at 130l miles still a major repair. at some point both will have a problem, stock or not. they have 150k+ miles. and are usually to expensive for the owners to fix which is why the majority of them are for sale.

[Trb1]

JHM fmic setup. The pipes can be tucked back a bit more if you spend time on it.

Truth. I bought it this way. I'm not a huge fan of the in your face fmic look but it is what it is. They always make the bumper fit weird. Someone needs to buy this car. It seriously is in awesome shape. Even more so mechanically.

[mosnet99]

Going to look at an S4 tomorrow. If the clutch feels healthy, does anyone know of a recent repair list that would almost guarantee I wouldn't have to pull the motor for at least 30K or 40K miles?

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[DieselElectric]

There's no guarantee, even if the turbos are brand new borgs.

Look under the oil cap for sludge. Ask for work history with documentation.

Look for indications of attention to detail. If a guy can't properly detail a car he is trying to sell, then he probably doesn't care to maintain it either.


Don't be shy with inspecting. Closely look at the body for waves or shitty paint, any indication of bad body work. By bad body work, if you can tell it has been repaired then it's bad. My car recently had the rear quarter repaired and there is zero indication of anything ever happening.

Look underneath as much as possible for rust, look for missing trim pieces or even hardware. You don't want any indication of cut corners. Inspect closely and carefully, don't let anyone rush you into it. Also don't get excited and blind yourself from seeing a piece of shit for what it is.


When I bought mine I inspected it for an hour before even asking for keys to take it for a drive.

[demonmk2]

It's a crap shoot

[Spoorguy]

I'd go for stock in most cases unless I knew the owner and the history of the car. Whatever one is cleaner, runs better and was taken care of better would be the best choice. Even if the other car has mods which in most cases people will justify buying that one because you won't need to spend the money to buy those parts, it's usually a better bet to go stock and buy those parts and install yourself down the road. Got any links, pics and details on these two cars?? that would help us give you a better opinion and advice