Hello EPL E85 Stage 1

[GRUMPY-S4]

$15 fill ups rock!!!!

[SteveYem]

When running full E85, what happens to your normal daily driving fuel efficiency? Let's assume your driving habits do not change versus when you are using 93 octane gasoline. I'm wondering if there is an overall cost savings going this route, or does the engine burn through E85 a lot quicker and therefore total long-term cost is a wash.

[SportVier]

[IgnorantQuestion] Can the fuel system (pumps, injectors, lines, etc) on these cars handle E85 long term? [/IgnorantQuestion]

[GRUMPY-S4]

You will probably get 2-3 mpg less on avg

[GRUMPY-S4]

[IgnorantQuestion] Can the fuel system (pumps, injectors, lines, etc) on these cars handle E85 long term? [/IgnorantQuestion]

For stage 2 you need a HPFP upgrade. For stage 1 stock fuel system is fine

[SteveYem]

[IgnorantQuestion] Can the fuel system (pumps, injectors, lines, etc) on these cars handle E85 long term? [/IgnorantQuestion]

That's a great question. I see various domestic vehicles driving around with a "Flex Fuel" badge indicating to me that they did something special with the guts to accommodate ethanol for long-term use.

You will probably get 2-3 mpg less on avg

That's not bad at all! Seems like you would definitely come out ahead, depending on how long you run that way versus the cost of the E85 tune.

[GRUMPY-S4]

That's a great question. I see various domestic vehicles driving around with a "Flex Fuel" badge indicating to me that they did something special with the guts to accommodate ethanol for long-term use.



That's not bad at all! Seems like you would definitely come out ahead, depending on how long you run that way versus the cost of the E85 tune.

Yea they fitted those cars with the right FPs/Injector combo to handle the added flow

[GRUMPY-S4]

That's a great question. I see various domestic vehicles driving around with a "Flex Fuel" badge indicating to me that they did something special with the guts to accommodate ethanol for long-term use.



That's not bad at all! Seems like you would definitely come out ahead, depending on how long you run that way versus the cost of the E85 tune.

You are aware that its not only to save on fuel right???

Power plus cleaner valves more than make up for it as well. Race fuel power at 91 cents a gallon??? Where do I sign up???

[Tod]

Question?

We have E85 all over locally, if I'm out and about and run low and need to fill up. Is 93 okay? Any adverse effects running 93 on E85 map?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

[SportVier]

Yea they fitted those cars with the right FPs/Injector combo to handle the added flow

I was not asking about flow but longevity. Polymers breaking down over time and what not.

[GRUMPY-S4]

Question?

We have E85 all over locally, if I'm out and about and run low and need to fill up. Is 93 okay? Any adverse effects running 93 on E85 map?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

You need to switch the map. As far as I know... Since fueling would be all different

[LINDW4LL]

Power plus cleaner valves more than make up for it as well. Race fuel power at 91 cents a gallon??? Where do I sign up???

Fuel never touches the valves.

[GRUMPY-S4]

I was not asking about flow but longevity. Polymers breaking down over time and what not.

Evo guys run it for years with no issues

[SportVier]

Evo guys run it for years with no issues

After swapping in an Audi fuel system...?

[GRUMPY-S4]

After swapping in an Audi fuel system...?

Meaning Rubber these days withstands the added "swelling" E85 can cause.

Or does Mitsu use different rubber than Audi lol?

Rubber is Rubber

[GRUMPY-S4]

Fuel never touches the valves.

But Carbon buildup would be less????

[Brother Owl]

Hey Grumpy what was your OTD cost for stage 1 e85? (I know you got in on the group buy) You can PM if you want...

[SportVier]

Meaning Rubber these days withstands the added "swelling" E85 can cause.

Or does Mitsu use different rubber than Audi lol?

Rubber is Rubber

Rubber is Rubber. "lol", indeed.

[GRUMPY-S4]

Rubber is Rubber. "lol", indeed.

Hey man then dont run it...

People running dual Pulleys are pioneers... E85 is nee also on this platform.

Other cars have been using it for a while. What do you want to get at then? Evidence of longevity... Doesnt exist on this platform

[SteveYem]

You are aware that its not only to save on fuel right???

Power plus cleaner valves more than make up for it as well. Race fuel power at 91 cents a gallon??? Where do I sign up???

Yes understood 100%. I was simply trying to understand whether it is an economically viable solution for long-term, daily use, i.e. always filling up with E85 as opposed to doing it only for occasional fills before drag strip visits, etc.

[HeymyAudi]

Congrats on getting it done... Hows the newly installed sensor working? I might end up running it if I can find a E85 station close by...

[GRUMPY-S4]

Yes understood 100%. I was simply trying to understand whether it is an economically viable solution for long-term, daily use, i.e. always filling up with E85 as opposed to doing it only for occasional fills before drag strip visits, etc.

I think it pays for itself in about 6months (assuming a fill up a week)

[GRUMPY-S4]

Congrats on getting it done... Hows the newly installed sensor working? I might end up running it if I can find a E85 station close by...

Love the sensor!!!!!!

Currently running E40...

Took the car out today and spun all 4 wheels lol

[HeymyAudi]

Uggghhrrrrr!!! The need more E85 stations around me!

[bhvrdr]

But Carbon buildup would be less????

Not really. Its direct injection into the cylinder so never touches the valves. Spraying meth at the valves could conceivably help but even some N54/n55 guys who daily drove meth cars are saying it looks like it did absolutly nothing to prevent the carbon buildup :(


The reason to run E85 is for the power you can make. It is a great fuel for knock mitigation.

The bummer about it is that it gives significantly worse fuel economy (20-25%) and MAY erode parts quicker that were not specifically designed for it and some dont like the smell. I'd probably try it too if we had any near me.


Mike

[GRUMPY-S4]

Not really. Its direct injection into the cylinder so never touches the valves. Spraying meth at the valves could conceivably help but even some N54/n55 guys who daily drove meth cars are saying it looks like it did absolutly nothing to prevent the carbon buildup :(


Mike

Somewhere I read that the carbon buildup from E85 was less...

[Mat@1975]

For stage 2 you need a HPFP upgrade. For stage 1 stock fuel system is fine

Love the sensor!!!!!!

Currently running E40...

Took the car out today and spun all 4 wheels lol

Somewhere I read that the carbon buildup from E85 was less...

Hello Grumpy,

Thanks for the info about the HPFP needed fot stg2 and not for stg1, didn't know, verry interresting !

You run a E85 tune right ? with only E40 ? isn't there a minimal amount of ethanol needed to run E85 tunes ? (i though it was ~ E70)

BTW, i am verry jealous that APR doesn't offer E85 tunes (yet ?) . Hope they did not gave up the B8/B8.5 Platform...

Best regards,


Mat

[GRUMPY-S4]

Hello Grumpy,

Thanks for the info about the HPFP needed fot stg2 and not for stg1, didn't know, verry interresting !

You run a E85 tune right ? with only E40 ? isn't there a minimal amount of ethanol needed to run E85 tunes ? (i though it was ~ E70)

BTW, i am verry jealous that APR doesn't offer E85 tunes (yet ?) . Hope they did not gave up the B8/B8.5 Platform...

Best regards,


Mat

I run E40 on the regular stage 1 EPL tune (dyno'd 70hp over stock)

I just got the E85 tune today. Still not running it. For it I would need full E85. Will be dyno'ing soon to see difference.

[Mat@1975]

For stage 2 you need a HPFP upgrade. For stage 1 stock fuel system is fine

Love the sensor!!!!!!

Currently running E40...

Took the car out today and spun all 4 wheels lol

I run E40 on the regular stage 1 EPL tune (dyno'd 70hp over stock)

I just got the E85 tune today. Still not running it. For it I would need full E85. Will be dyno'ing soon to see difference.

OK ! thanks.

Did EPL specified a minimal content of ethanol in order to run the E85 tune ? (we know that it's sometimes not as much)

Other question: if you plan to run your E85 file and fill with crappy E85 that gives E60 or so, witch map do you load ?
It seems that an intermediary map (ie. ~ E50-E60) would be needed to handle all situations ?

BR

Mat

[GRUMPY-S4]

OK ! thanks.

Did EPL specified a minimal content of ethanol in order to run the E85 tune ? (we know that it's sometimes not as much)

Other question: if you plan to run your E85 file and fill with crappy E85 that gives E60 or so, witch map do you load ?
It seems that an intermediary map (ie. ~ E50-E60) would be needed to handle all situations ?

BR

Mat

Thats a great question Matt!!!

I will ask Tony as now Im curious myself!

[Mat@1975]

Thats a great question Matt!!!

I will ask Tony as now Im curious myself!

I am curious about the answer too!

Asuming That:

1. ~E40 is the maximum Ethanol Content to run with regular fuel Stage 1 tune (before throwing lean CEL's)
2. ~E70 is the minimal Ethanol Content to run with a E85 tune

==> there is a no man's land between E40 and E70 ...

I asume that the only startegy is to not do complete fill at the pump, then let the zeitronnix measure, and then continue filling with E85 if the Gas is good, otherwise complete with 93 in order to return Under E40... Not simple !!! ;o)

BR

Mat

[GRUMPY-S4]

I am curious about the answer too!

Asuming That:

1. ~E40 is the maximum Ethanol Content to run with regular fuel Stage 1 tune (before throwing lean CEL's)
2. ~E70 is the minimal Ethanol Content to run with a E85 tune

==> there is a no man's land between E40 and E70 ...

I asume that the only startegy is to not do complete fill at the pump, then let the zeitronnix measure, and then continue filling with E85 if the Gas is good, otherwise complete with 93 in order to return Under E40... Not simple !!! ;o)

BR

Mat

I believe you wont get Lean codes until after E50. I have run E45ish and no issues. Probably no gain after E30 aside from on your wallet.

[Mat@1975]

I believe you wont get Lean codes until after E50. I have run E45ish and no issues. Probably no gain after E30 aside from on your wallet.

Wow, E50 is a lot !! i think other have report less threshold...
I aknowledge that beyond ~ E30, depending on your tune aggressivity, you won't see Knock activity, thus max possible timing, right ?

THanks a lot for sharing !!

BR

Mat

(Zeitronnix sensor on the way ... ;o) )

[GRUMPY-S4]

Wow, E50 is a lot !!
I aknowledge that beyond ~ E30, depending on your tune aggressivity, you won't see Knock activity, thus max possible timing, right ?

THanks a lot for sharing !!

BR

Mat

(Zeitronnix sensor on the way ... ;o) )

Yeah I see no knock and timing in the high teens

[Mat@1975]

Yeah I see no knock and timing in the high teens

Only timing in the high teens ? what is your red line ? (i toped at 27-28° at 7200 with APR stg 1 with 3.5 gals of E85)
It seems that you have room for additional performance !

looking forward to looking at your new timing values with the E85 tune !! Perf improvement will be great !!!!

BR

MAt

[GRUMPY-S4]

You sure you werent on Race gas??? Actually my timing was 20-21

[jran76]

Only timing in the high teens ? what is your red line ? (i toped at 27-28° at 7200 with APR stg 1 with 3.5 gals of E85)
It seems that you have room for additional performance !

looking forward to looking at your new timing values with the E85 tune !! Perf improvement will be great !!!!

BR

MAt

27 or 28 degrees seems really high for a non-race gas map. I haven't seen the APR 104 octane race gas file get close to those numbers. Maybe there is something vastly different with stage 1, but that is a hell of a lot of timing.

[GRUMPY-S4]

Isnt there a point where Extra timing is counter productive?

[Mat@1975]

You sure you werent on Race gas??? Actually my timing was 20-21

Yes I am !

Fellow AZT had the same results with the revised APR stg 1 tune.

You can see the story here:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11137148

See you !!

Mat

[jran76]

Yes I am !

Fellow AZT had the same results with the revised APR stg 1 tune.

You can see the story here:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11137148

See you !!

Mat

I remember that thread, and your logs and graphs. For some reason I thought you were hitting 24 degrees on the 93 (98 RON) map, but pulling a lot of timing. Then you switched to the 91 map (95 RON). I was thinking your timing would be lower at that point.

That is just really high. Can you post the raw log file when you get a chance? I'd like to take a look at it.