Notchy Steering

[Works2shoot]

Hey everyone -

As you may or may not know, it's been very cold in the mid-Atlantic over the last week. While I was driving into work this morning on the highway, I changed lanes and noticed a definite notchiness in the steering. This happened when moving the wheel in small right to left motions. It occurred in dynamic and comfort.

The car is on winter tires.

Is this normal for cold weather like the squeaky brakes? Thanks in advance.

EDIT - I know this was an issue for the early B8.5s - mine is a 2014 (11/13 build) where the problem was supposed to be fixed

EDIT 2 - I have searched, but it seems to be more about models other than the S4 from 2014 onward. I'll search some more!

[S4NJ]

I wonder if the alu kreuz would fix this...


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[chet]

I'm guessing you have a 2013? Known issue. There's a software update from Audi that usually takes care of it (it tweaks settings for DSR, aka Driver Steering Recommendation). Other people have actually had their entire steering column swapped. In my case, a software update took care of it.

My understanding was they fixed it 2014 onward, so hopefully you're a 2013. :)


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[Works2shoot]

I wonder if the alu kreuz would fix this...


Sent from my iPhone using Tap, Tapatalk

I'm guessing you have a 2013? Known issue. There's a software update from Audi that usually takes care of it (it tweaks settings for DSR, aka Driver Steering Recommendation). Other people have actually had their entire steering column swapped. In my case, a software update took care of it.

My understanding was they fixed it 2014 onward, so hopefully you're a 2013. :)


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I have a 2014 and Alu Kreuz. I had all my mods in my signature - where'd they go? Have to update!

[MrFunk]

Very common issue with the 13's even 14's.
Hundreds if not thousands of posts to read through...
No mods are going to fix it... some have gotten it sorted out by replacing the steering rack and/or software update.
I'd take it in to the dealership and see what they can do for you... I drove several 13's with this issue and it was just terrible...

[Works2shoot]

Very common issue with the 13's even 14's.
Hundreds if not thousands of posts to read through...
No mods are going to fix it... some have gotten it sorted out by replacing the steering rack and/or software update.
I'd take it in to the dealership and see what they can do for you... I drove several 13's with this issue and it was just terrible...

I hadn't seen as many threads dealing with the 14 S4s (more A4s and Q5s) hence my post. I promise I'm a searcher! Dealer was blaming the cold weather.

[Works2shoot]

I wonder if this is the reason that my steering wheel is always to the left (even after alignment at the Audi dealer). If I hold my wheel straight, the car goes to the right. Dealer says the car is correcting for the road.

Old video - but shows my issue - looks like I need to schedule a service appointment -


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7js...ature=youtu.be

[waxxonMTL]

good thing i didnt have this problem with my '13 s4. i know a software upgrade was done to it in 2014 i believe.

[Lamprey]

Does the problem manifest itself badly (or more noticeably) if you drive for a while, then turn your car off for a few (15 or so) minutes while you go shopping or something and then turn it back on? Mine (MY13) did this pretty regularly. I had to take it to the dealer several times, but I told them that I almost went off the highway due to the issue (which is true) and that I didn't feel safe driving the car and I was to the point that I was going to escalate to AoA or start a lemon law claim. They finally agreed to replace "the rack."

The reason I mention the parking your car and then starting it back up again, is that if that is happening, it's much easier to reproduce than the other seeming random times it manifests it self while driving down the road. Thus it's easier for the dealer to "feel" the problem given that set of criteria and agree there is a problem instead of trying to blame your tires.

[SteveYem]

Does the problem manifest itself badly (or more noticeably) if you drive for a while, then turn your car off for a few (15 or so) minutes while you go shopping or something and then turn it back on? Mine (MY13) did this pretty regularly. I had to take it to the dealer several times, but I told them that I almost went off the highway due to the issue (which is true) and that I didn't feel safe driving the car and I was to the point that I was going to escalate to AoA or start a lemon law claim. They finally agreed to replace "the rack."

The reason I mention the parking your car and then starting it back up again, is that if that is happening, it's much easier to reproduce than the other seeming random times it manifests it self while driving down the road. Thus it's easier for the dealer to "feel" the problem given that set of criteria and agree there is a problem instead of trying to blame your tires.

Did the new steering rack solve your problem?

I have a 2015 S4 and it has this problem. It sucks. It is most noticeable in cold temperatures. Even on a cold day, the issue tends to go away a bit as the car warms up and sustains a warmer temperature for a while. My specific issue is that the steering wheel feels like it does not want to stay at top dead center.....it wants to shoot to one side or the other. It's the feeling of two same-pole magnets being pushed together - they never want to go together and accelerate to one side or the other. One of my theories is that the electric-assist steering rack is overly sensitive to what is happening on its output, and unless your tire pressures are perfectly even and alignment is perfectly the same side to side, the system will "fight" itself resulting in the resistance for the steering wheel to stay centered.

I have an open case on this with my local Audi dealer's service manager. I took the car there on a 70 degree day and had him drive it around. He said "It feels fine to me", to which I replied "yep, me too. But I'll come back when it's sub-freezing and let you feel how the steering transforms". I still have to do that second part and it's on my agenda for the near future.

I'm approaching it this way because his first reaction was to point to my lowered ride height. I told him I've driven many lowered cars in all seasons and the ride height never affected the steering feel. During a previous visit on a cold day we had taken out a bone-stock 2015 S4 and it exhibited the same vagueness / notchyness at top-dead-center, so that proved it was an inherent issue with the hardware/software, not caused by my aftermarket suspension.

[Works2shoot]

Does the problem manifest itself badly (or more noticeably) if you drive for a while, then turn your car off for a few (15 or so) minutes while you go shopping or something and then turn it back on? Mine (MY13) did this pretty regularly. I had to take it to the dealer several times, but I told them that I almost went off the highway due to the issue (which is true) and that I didn't feel safe driving the car and I was to the point that I was going to escalate to AoA or start a lemon law claim. They finally agreed to replace "the rack."

The reason I mention the parking your car and then starting it back up again, is that if that is happening, it's much easier to reproduce than the other seeming random times it manifests it self while driving down the road. Thus it's easier for the dealer to "feel" the problem given that set of criteria and agree there is a problem instead of trying to blame your tires.

I'm a little confused - would you mind bulleting out the procedure to replicate the issue? Thanks!!

They tried to blame my tires - until I told them they were brand new Michelin Winters.

[MrFunk]

Dealer was blaming the cold weather.

This is laughable! Why bother putting quattro on their cars to handle snow if you can't steer through the snow when the weather gets cold...?? I would not go easy on the dealership if I had this issue... if they could not fix it I'd be having them buy back the car. My buddy ended up having them buy back his 13' due to this and a few other issues he was having...

[SteveYem]

This is laughable! Why bother putting quattro on their cars to handle snow if you can't steer through the snow when the weather gets cold...?? I would not go easy on the dealership if I had this issue... if they could not fix it I'd be having them buy back the car. My buddy ended up having them buy back his 13' due to this and a few other issues he was having...

I agree that the symptom is caused by the cold weather, but the cause for blame is a design flaw by Audi.

[SportVier]

I agree that the symptom is caused by the cold weather, but the cause for blame is a design flaw by Audi.

Oh, I don't think we should let VAG off that easily. An argument could be made that the company is not simply to blame for a design flaw in one particular steering system, but also for a massive impact on the global climate.

VAG could credibly be blamed for the extremely cold weather some parts of the world now experience, due to climate change. Think of the aggregate CO2 generated through the operation of all the internal combustion engines the company has produced since it began manufacturing vehicles in the late 1930s.

Compared to this, the TDI emissions scandal looks laughably trivial.

[djkod]

I ended up disabling DSR with VCDS, installed the Alu Kreuz and the CR-15 strut bar. Steering feel and turn-in have improved tremendously on my 2013 S4. Details on disabling DSR are in the link below:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...t=DSR+steering

[SteveYem]

I ended up disabling DSR with VCDS, installed the Alu Kreuz and the CR-15 strut bar. Steering feel and turn-in have improved tremendously on my 2013 S4. Details on disabling DSR are in the link below:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...t=DSR+steering

It must be a YMMV thing because I have all three of those same modifications and still have the issues I described above (Post #10). I believe the wonky steering assist feel (notchiness) is a separate issue from chassis stiffness ("floaty" feeling, reaction time from steering input to vehicle direction change), so while the Alu Kreuz and CR-15 certainly help the latter issue, they do nothing to address the former, in my ~2 years experience with it.

[Lamprey]

I'm a little confused - would you mind bulleting out the procedure to replicate the issue? Thanks!!

They tried to blame my tires - until I told them they were brand new Michelin Winters.

1. Drive you car around for a while to get it warmed up (15-20 mins I think is enough).
2. Park and turn off your car.
3. Wait 10-15 minutes (aka go shopping for groceries or something).
4. Get back in car and start driving, at this point you may notice the "notchiness."

This didn't work 100% of the time, but it seemed to work moer than 50% of the time in my case. The dealer tried to blame cold weather, tires, you name it. They tried to blame cold weather again until I pointed out that it was 65 degrees outside (at the time).

[Works2shoot]

1. Drive you car around for a while to get it warmed up (15-20 mins I think is enough).
2. Park and turn off your car.
3. Wait 10-15 minutes (aka go shopping for groceries or something).
4. Get back in car and start driving, at this point you may notice the "notchiness."

This didn't work 100% of the time, but it seemed to work moer than 50% of the time in my case. The dealer tried to blame cold weather, tires, you name it. They tried to blame cold weather again until I pointed out that it was 65 degrees outside (at the time).

Thank you very much for this :thumbup:

[Lamprey]

Did the new steering rack solve your problem?

It did.

It's a fault/problem with "something" electro-mechanical. I was told it's part of a larger assembly, thus they replace the entire "rack" rather than an individual part. Something gets out of alignment or slips and the system tries to compensate and it manifests as nochiness. Again, what I was told is that the problem may come and go, hence why people think it is related to cold weather (it is not). Eventually, it will gradually get worse over time, as mine did.

[SteveYem]

It did.

It's a fault/problem with "something" electro-mechanical. I was told it's part of a larger assembly, thus they replace the entire "rack" rather than an individual part. Something gets out of alignment or slips and the system tries to compensate and it manifests as nochiness. Again, what I was told is that the problem may come and go, hence why people think it is related to cold weather (it is not). Eventually, it will gradually get worse over time, as mine did.

Do you know if they performed the 48k8 software update at the time of replacing your steering rack? This is the update that allegedly (and possibly only on temporary basis) fixes the notchiness issue, but diminishes the steering assist difference between Comfort and Dynamic modes.

[Lamprey]

Do you know if they performed the 48k8 software update at the time of replacing your steering rack? This is the update that allegedly (and possibly only on temporary basis) fixes the notchiness issue, but diminishes the steering assist difference between Comfort and Dynamic modes.

That software update was done months before the replacement.

[Brother Owl]

This is one of the only issues I have with my car. My dealer hasn't been very receptive to it either...

[jokingjimmy]

I have begun to hate dealers. I wish they were there for our best interest. Oh well.

[Works2shoot]

On the ride home the steering was not notchy but I did a few tests.

Holding the wheel completely straight, I kept an arrow straight path to about 30mph, then started drifting to the right. Maybe the system is the reason my wheel stays consistently to the left. It's compensating for a road crown that doesn't exist?

Either way. Something is up. Now I have to uninstall my intake before I can take it back to the dealer. Sucks.

[Fife]

Here's another thread on the same issue: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...Steering-clunk

Here is what happened from my 2/9 dealership appointment:

"Customer states steering wheel clicks when driving and turning (intermittently).
Airbag Clockspring
Verified customer concern. Heard faint clicking sound coming from upper part of steering column. Removed steering column trim and used stethoscope to locate noise was coming from the airbag clocksrping. Removed airbag and steering wheel. Removed and replaced clocksrping. Reinstalled all removed parts. Performed guided fault finding scan and performed necessary adaptations and basic settings. No further noise at this time."

My SA said that if this doesn't fix the problem they may have to replace the whole steering column. He says that they have had to do this before on other customers' vehicles.

My steering feels fine for now. I'm just happy to be driving the S instead of the A4 loaner I was given (although I'd happily take the black metallic R8 they had in the showroom if it wasn't $145k for a NA V8).

I definitely agree that cold weather makes it worse. I first noticed it when it was about -10F with the windchill.

[Works2shoot]

Here's another thread on the same issue: http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...Steering-clunk



I definitely agree that cold weather makes it worse. I first noticed it when it was about -10F with the windchill.

This is great stuff thank you!

[SForePlayin']

I have experienced this once in almost two years of ownership (March 1st). It happened earlier this winter on a very cold day while driving home from work. When I felt it, I immediately thought about the 'mega' notchiness thread that was popular for the MY2013. I thought, why am I feeling this? They were supposed to have fixed this on the MY2014!

The winter here has been relatively mild thankfully, but we're in the midst of another cold snap this weekend, so my sensors are up. I will definitely mention this to my dealership SA.

Side note, and unrelated to this thread.....Earlier this winter also, I experienced one of the other bizarre things that happens with this car, and that is water sloshing around behind the dashboard. That occurred on a very cold night while I was picking up my son at work.

I haven't experienced either symptom since.

Very strange.

[chris dds]

I have a 13 that handled poorly in cold weather since new. It was the worst in the 25-35F temps. I took it to the Audi dealer....first they tried the software update, which didn't help. Then, they replaced some sort of steering shaft....that didn't help, either. By that time, the POS Continental tires were shot and I put on new tires (which made it worse).

I finally had it at the dealer at a day with temps around freezing and they determined that the steering rack needed to be replaced. They replace the rack in December 2014. the new rack dramatically improved things. It doesn't float as much now and the notciness is mostly gone The problems are less noticable with my snow tires. however, it still doesn't handle like a hydraulic steering.

[fesmail]

I’m experiencing this quite a bit lately but the weather here is warm and notchy steering symptoms arise after a few hours of regular driving running errands...... my issue is that my warranty is over 😬

2013 s4

[catalyst686]

If your steering is like this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1a0s9zP7fg
You need a new steering rack, mine was replaced under warranty for notchy/ unresponsive steering, is was especially bad when cold.

[BucDan]

I have a MY13 with a software update from the precious owner, I don't feel it. Does this occur for cars with dynamic drive select AND without it?

[fesmail]

If your steering is like this- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1a0s9zP7fg
You need a new steering rack, mine was replaced under warranty for notchy/ unresponsive steering, is was especially bad when cold.

Interesting..... I’ll run this test to confirm

[GordonShumway]

My specific issue is that the steering wheel feels like it does not want to stay at top dead center.....it wants to shoot to one side or the other. It's the feeling of two same-pole magnets being pushed together - they never want to go together and accelerate to one side or the other. One of my theories is that the electric-assist steering rack is overly sensitive to what is happening on its output, and unless your tire pressures are perfectly even and alignment is perfectly the same side to side, the system will "fight" itself resulting in the resistance for the steering wheel to stay centered.

I have a completely stock 2014 S4 prestige. I notice exactly what you're talking about. On the highway it feels like I can either wander left in the lane, or move the wheel slightly clockwise and wander right. It's hard to keep the wheel somewhere between those two notches.

Sometimes it's quite evident, and other times it's difficult to replicate. This last week I've noticed it wasn't really there; it was warmer out on the days I was driving it.

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[MSq5]

I have a completely stock 2014 S4 prestige. I notice exactly what you're talking about. On the highway it feels like I can either wander left in the lane, or move the wheel slightly clockwise and wander right. It's hard to keep the wheel somewhere between those two notches.

Sometimes it's quite evident, and other times it's difficult to replicate. This last week I've noticed it wasn't really there; it was warmer out on the days I was driving it.

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You can use Ross-Tech VCDS and go in and disable the automatic DSR. Audi wants its on-board "nanny" to constantly assess our driving habits and to make decisions for us as to just what it thinks our steering "feel" should be like. If you spend any time backing out of driveways, parking in parking lots and other low speed high steering input driving, the nanny will think you want soft, vague steering. Go in and uncheck the box. Everything firms back up. This is one example of artificial intelligence going amok. It's easy to turn it off. There is another thread here, somewhere.

Found it. Here you go. Give it a try. You uncheck the box for Driver Steering Recommendation.

[onlyaudis]

why I bought a 2012

[GordonShumway]

Thank you for finding this. I was searching around and couldn't quite find the instructions for how to make the change. I'll try it out.

You can use Ross-Tech VCDS and go in and disable the automatic DSR. Audi wants its on-board "nanny" to constantly assess our driving habits and to make decisions for us as to just what it thinks our steering "feel" should be like. If you spend any time backing out of driveways, parking in parking lots and other low speed high steering input driving, the nanny will think you want soft, vague steering. Go in and uncheck the box. Everything firms back up. This is one example of artificial intelligence going amok. It's easy to turn it off. There is another thread here, somewhere.

Found it. Here you go. Give it a try. You uncheck the box for Driver Steering Recommendation.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[rnkjr]

I have an early build 2013, out of warrant. I get the steering on-center "notch" in cold weather only - maybe a couple time a month. The calibration can be reset by turning the wheel lock to lock, holding for 3 seconds in each lock. This is not a permanent solution, but it works every time. I creep forward while doing it to reduce stress on the steering system (probably unnecessary). Next winter I will try the DSR disable.

[if6ws9]

I unchecked the DSR box but got the following message:

"VCDS Re-Code Invalid

This appears to be an uninitialized control module;
valid WSC/Importer/Equipment data may be required

Click [Yes] for VCDS to use default values of 12345/123/12345
Click [No] for VCDS to try the values currently in the module
Click [Cancel] for VCDS to go back and manually edit the values

Yes No Cancel"

[Works2shoot]

As an update, the dealer finally replaced my steering rack. Notchy steering is a thing of the past.

However, everyone is right. There is now zero difference between comfort and dynamic...and unfortunately it leans more towards comfort than dynamic.

At the end of the day, I'd rather lighter steering than what was going on before.

[Chris-WT]

1. Drive you car around for a while to get it warmed up (15-20 mins I think is enough).
2. Park and turn off your car.
3. Wait 10-15 minutes (aka go shopping for groceries or something).
4. Get back in car and start driving, at this point you may notice the "notchiness."

This didn't work 100% of the time, but it seemed to work moer than 50% of the time in my case. The dealer tried to blame cold weather, tires, you name it. They tried to blame cold weather again until I pointed out that it was 65 degrees outside (at the time).

This is great and matches my experience - thanks. Good to know it works in warmish weather too.

My situation is that rack being kaput was diagnosed at Audi dealer local but my purchase dealer (VW) 2+ hours away insists on being the one to fix it under their used car warranty (vs them paying Audi).

It’s going to be 40 degrees F on Monday- I’m hoping they can reproduce. Any other tips on MAKING it happen?

2015 allroad p+ 46,000 miles
48K4 or other software update wasn’t offered - it’s the rack.

Thanks
Chris