Stage # clarification and turbo options / clarification

[Allowencer]

I've kinda followed some of what you guys define as 'stage #'; help me out on what I either am missing or need correction on:

stage 1: cat back? mild ECU program
stage 2: stage 1 + HFC?
stage 3: k04 and previous staged mods?


Turbos:
K04 - 'nuff said about them. The 'platinum' option for our motors; comes with the price tag too. Requires a lot of supporting modifications to fully support one; has anyone gone that far?

F23L - mixed reviews but it seems within the last 1.5-2 years there has been good reviews. I've read up on lettuce's build and he loves it. I read another guys woes with a shop / the turbo, but the car was running good (then blew an intake charge line). So it's hard to say what the direct issue was.

Is there even an option 3?

My thoughts: Going K04 I have to have full exhaust right? I know I have to get a tune as well. Looking at power and track times, it seems the K04's band is more on the higher side and there's some loss in the lower end range. F23L has a great power band, low through high and prolly is 80% of the capacity of a K04. I'm not looking to take this car to full 'track mode'. I love to drive passionately and enjoy the car. I might take it to the track once or twice. I intend on taking it to the dyno once I'm all said and done though.


Here's what I have waiting in boxes to get installed: EC I/C plus all the piping, Catch Can, HFC (don't recall who's, not CT's though). With that in mind, if I were to go with a F23L, could I run it normally and not scale it back with those supporting mods?

Any other thoughts from you guys?

TAI.

[seangrimes590]

You've got the f23 and k04 reversed, f23 has more power potential. F23 is currently on the fastest b8 A4 out of the forum members, APR has a faster car with the EFR.

K04 doesn't lose anything down low, just spools, at most, 200 rpms later. Barley noticeable.

Have you seen the APR EFR thread? If not, look at it.

Outside of that I think you're going to get hit pretty hard by others, everything you're talking about is answerable without leaving the first page of the forum or using the search button.

[ParadigmTony]

INB4 this gets good...

[b6Hate4]

INB4 this gets good...

The squad bout to show up

[ParadigmTony]

But to clarify

Stage 1: ECU
Stage 2: ECU + Hardware
Stage 3: Unicorn. turns out we call this stage 2+ now. We all got demoted
Stage 4: Well turns out this is Stage 3 Because APR said so.
Stage 5: Because Gainz
Stage 6: Me: Im running a 60/67 Custom trim on water meth, with Ethanol, 36psi, Custom manifold, Motec, and an SR20 because it pulls a fine premium one week before race wars.

[WAF]

again.

[blbroo]

You know, I think Allowencer deserves a break because he's not just a brainless newb wanting a shop to install a turbo and tune for him. Dude currently has his car torn farther than I've seen of any B8.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...0016-amp-p0299

Pretty right on with the stages. You don't need a full exhaust for any power gain on these cars. Nothing past the cat adds anything more than noise. You should be able to run the K04 or F23L full, they don't make insane amounts of power that will break internals.

To help air flow, get an AFE drop in filter and a silicone turbo inlet pipe.

edit: Smellie's clarification below is correct. K04 level turbo doesn't have a stage # for APR. REVO calls it stage 3 and Unitronic calls it Stage 2+, though. GIAC calls it "were working on it". hehe

[shaunm82]

You've got the f23 and k04 reversed, f23 has more power potential. F23 is currently on the fastest b8 A4 out of the forum members, APR has a faster car with the EFR.

K04 doesn't lose anything down low, just spools, at most, 200 rpms later. Barley noticeable.

Have you seen the APR EFR thread? If not, look at it.

Outside of that I think you're going to get hit pretty hard by others, everything you're talking about is answerable without leaving the first page of the forum or using the search button.

A forum member has ran a 12.4 @ 108 in his K04 powered B8, on the e85 tune, just an fyi

[blbroo]

A forum member has ran a 12.4 @ 108 in his K04 powered B8, on the e85 tune, just an fyi

Ah man, your right. majerrahim, or something like that, right? Lettuce was on 93, I bet he can match or beat that once he has the W/M setup.

[shaunm82]

Ah man, your right. majerrahim, or something like that, right? Lettuce was on E85, I bet he can match or beat that once he has the W/M setup.

Yeah, I always forget about him, not intentionally though..think its just cause he isn't around much.

But yup, I agree that lettuce is looking to top that, and I'm pretty confident he will!

[homelessNY_LI]

Yeah, I always forget about him, not intentionally though..think its just cause he isn't around much.

But yup, I agree that lettuce is looking to top that, and I'm pretty confident he will!

I think lettuce is pretty active on the forum

[shaunm82]

I think lettuce is pretty active on the forum

Wasn't talking about lettuce.

blbroo mentioned who ran the 12.4, and that is who I was referring to in that comment.

[homelessNY_LI]

Wasn't talking about lettuce.

blbroo mentioned who ran the 12.4, and that is who I was referring to in that comment.

Sorry it was hard to tell who u refered to

[Smellie]

Stage 3 there is APR's EFR.

RAI's GTX series turbos (you can go from a 2871 to a 3076)

CTS Turbo is mocking up a big turbo too, not sure what the ETA on that is



K04 is like in between stage 2 and 3, its just an OEM upgrade

[blbroo]

Wasn't talking about lettuce.

blbroo mentioned who ran the 12.4, and that is who I was referring to in that comment.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-System!/page8

majer was E85 AND water meth. Not impressively better than Lettuce's F23L and Eurodyne tune. Plus, Majer and others keep complaining of some major misfires / detonation issues with the APR K04 tune.

[shaunm82]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-System!/page8

majer was E85 AND water meth. Not impressively better than Lettuce's F23L and Eurodyne tune. Plus, Majer and others keep complaining of some major misfires / detonation issues with the APR K04 tune.

Yeah, shame that those issues aren't being addressed. Be nice to see how it ran at its full potential with no issues.

[blbroo]

Yeah, shame that those issues aren't being addressed. Be nice to see how it ran at its full potential with no issues.

I know a user that is about to put a K04 on with Revo's Stage 3 (their K04 designation). Will be cool to see how that runs.

[shaunm82]

I know a user that is about to put a K04 on with Revo's Stage 3 (their K04 designation). Will be cool to see how that runs.

Great that other options are finally popping up! Any word on GIAC? Those guys should team up with CTS and their upcoming kit~

[blbroo]

Great that other options are finally popping up! Any word on GIAC? Those guys should team up with CTS and their upcoming kit~

I'd imagine that they are. GIAC, CTS and Emmanuele Design work together on a good number of options for other cars.

Such as this monster:
http://www.audiboost.com/showthread....pressive-power

[VNA4]

I'm not sure if I understood correctly can someone please confirm:
So K04 is a worthy turbo upgrade if someone is looking for extra boost below 70mph? Anything above, k04 will not be able to provide enough boost increase?...Anything above for longer boost GTX or EFR upgrade should be considered?

[blbroo]

I'm not sure if I understood correctly can someone please confirm:
So K04 is a worthy turbo upgrade if someone is looking for extra boost below 70mph? Anything above, k04 will not be able to provide enough boost increase?...Anything above for longer boost GTX or EFR upgrade should be considered?

From what I see online, a stock S4 will run 13.2 in the 1/4 mile. Looks like a good K04 setup can do 12.4. Stage 2 A4 is mid to high 13s.

EFR ran in the high 11s, which is tuned S4 territory.

[AllroadCorbin]

A forum member has ran a 12.4 @ 108 in his K04 powered B8, on the e85 tune, just an fyi

to clarify, it must have been an B8.5 K04 tune (they are different than the B8). There are no B8s with metal intake manifolds and 5th injectors to run E85 from the factory

[VNA4]

Nice thanks the feedback. I don't usually drive above 120 on the FWY so EFR might not be needed, K04 should be plenty enough.

From what I see online, a stock S4 will run 13.2 in the 1/4 mile. Looks like a good K04 setup can do 12.4. Stage 2 A4 is mid to high 13s.

EFR ran in the high 11s, which is tuned S4 territory.

[Allowencer]

[QUOTE]You've got the f23 and k04 reversed, f23 has more power potential. F23 is currently on the fastest b8 A4 out of the forum members, APR has a faster car with the EFR.

K04 doesn't lose anything down low, just spools, at most, 200 rpms later. Barley noticeable.

Have you seen the APR EFR thread? If not, look at it.

Outside of that I think you're going to get hit pretty hard by others, everything you're talking about is answerable without leaving the first page of the forum or using the search button.[QUOTE]

I do? I thought a F23L is basically still a K03 housing but with K04 style internals. If that's the case, then you can only move ~80% as much air [volume] as you could with a full K04; right?
I thought a K04 takes almost another 1000 RPM to fully spool - no?
I think the EFR's are a little more aggressive than what I'm looking to do.
Well I did a lot of the searching before I posted this; the 'stages' are almost subjective. As for the turbo's, that is why I summarized what I did in the first post and was looking for anything else I might be missing.

The squad bout to show up

meh, let um. If you know me here, you'll know what I'm getting after. This isn't another 'pedal response' thread. I'll make sure it doesn't turn into that too. LOL

But to clarify

Stage 1: ECU
Stage 2: ECU + Hardware
Stage 3: Unicorn. turns out we call this stage 2+ now. We all got demoted
Stage 4: Well turns out this is Stage 3 Because APR said so.
Stage 5: Because Gainz
Stage 6: Me: Im running a 60/67 Custom trim on water meth, with Ethanol, 36psi, Custom manifold, Motec, and an SR20 because it pulls a fine premium one week before race wars.

My point exactly; these 'stage' definitions are almost subjective and it depends on what parts and what the manufacture of the parts are too. Kind of a joke lol. Thanks for giving me a summary so at least I get an idea now.

again.

Really?

You know, I think Allowencer deserves a break because he's not just a brainless newb wanting a shop to install a turbo and tune for him. Dude currently has his car torn farther than I've seen of any B8.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...0016-amp-p0299

Pretty right on with the stages. You don't need a full exhaust for any power gain on these cars. Nothing past the cat adds anything more than noise. You should be able to run the K04 or F23L full, they don't make insane amounts of power that will break internals.

To help air flow, get an AFE drop in filter and a silicone turbo inlet pipe.

edit: Smellie's clarification below is correct. K04 level turbo doesn't have a stage # for APR. REVO calls it stage 3 and Unitronic calls it Stage 2+, though. GIAC calls it "were working on it". hehe

Thanks for the vouch blbroo - appreciate it. You know where I was coming from and what I'm after. I have a lot of 'car' knowledge; worked on many different type of vehicles and motors, but this is the deepest I've gone on a CAEB. I'm working on my buddies B5, TT K04's. He's going full out build, pistons, boring, swapping the K04's to EFR's, 1.8T intake cams; fun build! Anyways, back on track...

I didn't think a full exhaust was needed; glad to get that verification. I know the cat is a restriction and I have a brand new HFC sitting in a bag. Yeah, I'm not looking for record power here. Something better than stock for HP/$ is worth it for me at this point. My A4 is my DD; as is with it down I'm car pooling with the wife and it's not a 'fun' scenario right now. Since my K03 has issues, I'd rather upgrade to something that makes sense. If I break into the 12's, yay for me!

I have the full EC FMIC and piping sitting in a box. All that will be going in when I put the car back together (might as well since I've already removed all the stock stuff already!). I also snagged the Typhoon intake kit off of the classifieds for a very cheap price; that will go in too.

[blbroo]

Typhoon intake huh? Have you read up on that crying pig noise replicator?

[dennisA4]

I have hardware but no tune yet.
So i'm Stage 0.5+

[lettuce]

Ah man, your right. majerrahim, or something like that, right? Lettuce was on E85, I bet he can match or beat that once he has the W/M setup.

I'm sure you meant to type "wasn't" when you said I was on E85. I wish I could run that stuff but I'm one of the pre-facelift plebs without E85 capability. I was a bit confused with his times as well though, since I thought he should have run much faster than that considering APR claims E85 adds like 50 ft lbs of wheel torque. I believe arin@apr said not too long ago in the EFR teaser thread that running E85 is equivalent to running 110 octane race fuel. That should have added way more than 1 mph trap, unless the K04s are even more underpowered compared to the F23Ls than I thought. Plus I don't want to go all corycan on the guy (he's got the record fair and square, and the reason I now qualify my times as the fastest 'on pump gas') but he was at pbir too which is known for everyone somehow always setting record times there, even with the Florida heat.

And OP, your car is whatever stage you wanna be. I assumed the upgraded stock trim turbos (K04, F23L) were stage 3 until APR came out with their 'stage 3' EFR Kit. Now what are they? The turbo upgrade added more power and transformed the car more than any other 'stage' upgrade I did. Seems silly to give a stage designation to a simple ecu tune, a stage designation to a HFC install, and then nothing for a K04 and FMIC which will do way more than the other two.

So yeah call it what you want. Stage X sounds kinda cool, go with that.

[lettuce]

Oh and yeah you have the K04 and F23L power levels reversed. F23Ls makes more power. Think of it as a K04 with better internals and billet compressor wheel. I have side by side pics of the F23L and stock K03 exhaust-side innards in my build thread you checked out, and you can see the turbine diameter is larger and has I think double the fins. Totally different design and housing compared to stock.

[WAF]

[QUOTE=Allowencer;11381254]

Really?

My apologies I didn't see your build, I passed judgment before reading your earlier thread. And yah really that's exactly what I always think of when I see Intake, turbo, and exhaust threads. I figured it was another thread that was made without researching. Considering I haven't seen you on the forum that's what I figured.

[adamazing]

Stages are simply rhetoric to their perspective tuners. Stage 3 for APR might be different from Stage 3 for CTS, or Stage 3 from GIAC.

"Stage x" is simply the product level you purchased from a specific tuner.

[blbroo]

I'm sure you meant to type "wasn't" when you said I was on E85. I wish I could run that stuff but I'm one of the pre-facelift plebs without E85 capability. I was a bit confused with his times as well though, since I thought he should have run much faster than that considering APR claims E85 adds like 50 ft lbs of wheel torque. I believe arin@apr said not too long ago in the EFR teaser thread that running E85 is equivalent to running 110 octane race fuel. That should have added way more than 1 mph trap, unless the K04s are even more underpowered compared to the F23Ls than I thought. Plus I don't want to go all corycan on the guy (he's got the record fair and square, and the reason I now qualify my times as the fastest 'on pump gas') but he was at pbir too which is known for everyone somehow always setting record times there, even with the Florida heat.

And OP, your car is whatever stage you wanna be. I assumed the upgraded stock trim turbos (K04, F23L) were stage 3 until APR came out with their 'stage 3' EFR Kit. Now what are they? The turbo upgrade added more power and transformed the car more than any other 'stage' upgrade I did. Seems silly to give a stage designation to a simple ecu tune, a stage designation to a HFC install, and then nothing for a K04 and FMIC which will do way more than the other two.

So yeah call it what you want. Stage X sounds kinda cool, go with that.

Fixed it. I meant to type 93.

[inception]

I've kinda followed some of what you guys define as 'stage #'; help me out on what I either am missing or need correction on:

stage 1: cat back? mild ECU program
stage 2: stage 1 + HFC?
stage 3: k04 and previous staged mods?



Turbos:
K04 - 'nuff said about them. The 'platinum' option for our motors; comes with the price tag too. Requires a lot of supporting modifications to fully support one; has anyone gone that far?

F23L - mixed reviews but it seems within the last 1.5-2 years there has been good reviews. I've read up on lettuce's build and he loves it. I read another guys woes with a shop / the turbo, but the car was running good (then blew an intake charge line). So it's hard to say what the direct issue was.

Is there even an option 3?

My thoughts: Going K04 I have to have full exhaust right? I know I have to get a tune as well. Looking at power and track times, it seems the K04's band is more on the higher side and there's some loss in the lower end range. F23L has a great power band, low through high and prolly is 80% of the capacity of a K04. I'm not looking to take this car to full 'track mode'. I love to drive passionately and enjoy the car. I might take it to the track once or twice. I intend on taking it to the dyno once I'm all said and done though.


Here's what I have waiting in boxes to get installed: EC I/C plus all the piping, Catch Can, HFC (don't recall who's, not CT's though). With that in mind, if I were to go with a F23L, could I run it normally and not scale it back with those supporting mods?

Any other thoughts from you guys?

TAI.

K04 i believe will be the smooth and best upgrade form daily driving and can support some track as well. it depends on how you drive on track.
With your manual gears you can get up their and on the lower gears for the power. I have tracked and did the rally racing and having the sweet spot for the RPM is very important going thru turns and where you get the most power.

Study the graphs to see where you need to be and figure out the type of track you are going to be at. this way you can almost understand the gears you need to be in and at what speed. most track car set up are constantly adjusting engine and turbo setup to be right for the different tracks...

If you want worry free turbo upgrade K04 or F23L will be good. I had a K04 on my B7 2.0T and i loved it. Right now i have APR stage 2 E85 with 034 HFC and full exhaust. I love the way the car drives. Looking to upgrade to K04 but waiting to see how the EFR kit will be.... I just feel that the K04 will be a great upgrade for me as the boost comes on quick and on the E85 and it will have slightly more up top.

[Allowencer]

Typhoon intake huh? Have you read up on that crying pig noise replicator?

ROFL. My other car has a roots supercharger on it and I LOVE hearing that whine. I'm sure it will be different with this turbo. Worst case, I can easily go back to the stocker and put the K&N drop-in in instead.

I have hardware but no tune yet.
So i'm Stage 0.5+

LOL guess so per the 'stage definition

I'm sure you meant to type "wasn't" when you said I was on E85. I wish I could run that stuff but I'm one of the pre-facelift plebs without E85 capability. I was a bit confused with his times as well though, since I thought he should have run much faster than that considering APR claims E85 adds like 50 ft lbs of wheel torque. I believe arin@apr said not too long ago in the EFR teaser thread that running E85 is equivalent to running 110 octane race fuel. That should have added way more than 1 mph trap, unless the K04s are even more underpowered compared to the F23Ls than I thought. Plus I don't want to go all corycan on the guy (he's got the record fair and square, and the reason I now qualify my times as the fastest 'on pump gas') but he was at pbir too which is known for everyone somehow always setting record times there, even with the Florida heat.

And OP, your car is whatever stage you wanna be. I assumed the upgraded stock trim turbos (K04, F23L) were stage 3 until APR came out with their 'stage 3' EFR Kit. Now what are they? The turbo upgrade added more power and transformed the car more than any other 'stage' upgrade I did. Seems silly to give a stage designation to a simple ecu tune, a stage designation to a HFC install, and then nothing for a K04 and FMIC which will do way more than the other two.

So yeah call it what you want. Stage X sounds kinda cool, go with that.

lettuce - first off, great car man and well done on the work. Love your build thread - keep it up bud; drive fast, take chances and swerve carefully

It's kinda obvious (then again, most don't know) a power adder upgrade, with the correct supporting mods, will give you the biggest jump in power. I agree with the stage designations too; it is silly.

Ya know, I like the sound of that. I think I just trademarked it!

Oh and yeah you have the K04 and F23L power levels reversed. F23Ls makes more power. Think of it as a K04 with better internals and billet compressor wheel. I have side by side pics of the F23L and stock K03 exhaust-side innards in my build thread you checked out, and you can see the turbine diameter is larger and has I think double the fins. Totally different design and housing compared to stock.

OK... I think I need to go back and check out what I was reading. It was late last night - heh. OK, I'll go check them out - thanks!

My apologies I didn't see your build, I passed judgment before reading your earlier thread. And yah really that's exactly what I always think of when I see Intake, turbo, and exhaust threads. I figured it was another thread that was made without researching. Considering I haven't seen you on the forum that's what I figured.

No worries bud. I guess my first post wasn't 'defined' enough to state I'm not looking for the bantering but more of just some quick facts that actually have been shared here (which is what I was trying to drive out of the community).

Stages are simply rhetoric to their perspective tuners. Stage 3 for APR might be different from Stage 3 for CTS, or Stage 3 from GIAC.

"Stage x" is simply the product level you purchased from a specific tuner.

OK, that helps explain things. Got to love marketing...

K04 i believe will be the smooth and best upgrade form daily driving and can support some track as well. it depends on how you drive on track.
With your manual gears you can get up their and on the lower gears for the power. I have tracked and did the rally racing and having the sweet spot for the RPM is very important going thru turns and where you get the most power.

Study the graphs to see where you need to be and figure out the type of track you are going to be at. this way you can almost understand the gears you need to be in and at what speed. most track car set up are constantly adjusting engine and turbo setup to be right for the different tracks...

If you want worry free turbo upgrade K04 or F23L will be good. I had a K04 on my B7 2.0T and i loved it. Right now i have APR stage 2 E85 with 034 HFC and full exhaust. I love the way the car drives. Looking to upgrade to K04 but waiting to see how the EFR kit will be.... I just feel that the K04 will be a great upgrade for me as the boost comes on quick and on the E85 and it will have slightly more up top.

I just can't see to spend that much money on a K04. I know for sure, I'm sure we all know, that 100% of that is profit markup just because of the name slapped onto it. I know how much just the turbo and hardware costs. Sure there's some intellect property in their tune, but I can do that too (and intend on it). I'm planning on buying the maestro tuner.

Yeah, I love my MT . My fun is driving passionately, going into turns hard, heavy acceleration on on-ramp/off-ramps to the expressways. My small areas of enjoyment

Thanks for sharing all!

[inv3rtig0]

Turbo spool sounds like crap with the K03, but if you're going K04 anyways, maybe it will sound good? I'd be interested to find out. Ran the new ECS carbon intake for about a week and I couldn't take it, would have loved to keep it on though, looked beautiful.

[adamazing]

Turbo spool sounds like crap with the K03, but if you're going K04 anyways, maybe it will sound good? I'd be interested to find out. Ran the new ECS carbon intake for about a week and I couldn't take it, would have loved to keep it on though, looked beautiful.

Mine sounds like a learjet inching up the runway. I didn't like it at first but love it now.

[inv3rtig0]

Mine sounds like a learjet inching up the runway. I didn't like it at first but love it now.

I should have been more specific, it sounded good under hard acceleration, what I wasn't a fan of was the uneven whine at partial throttle, low-mid rpm range. You know, the driving-with-wife-or-coworkers range. Its all subjective of course, but I know I'm not the only one in this boat.

[adamazing]

I should have been more specific, it sounded good under hard acceleration, what I wasn't a fan of was the uneven whine at partial throttle, low-mid rpm range. You know, the driving-with-wife-or-coworkers range. Its all subjective of course, but I know I'm not the only one in this boat.

Ah, yeah I know what you're talking about. Yeah, that took me a while to learn to ignore it.

[MrTylerRaines]

Oh and yeah you have the K04 and F23L power levels reversed. F23Ls makes more power. Think of it as a K04 with better internals and billet compressor wheel. I have side by side pics of the F23L and stock K03 exhaust-side innards in my build thread you checked out, and you can see the turbine diameter is larger and has I think double the fins. Totally different design and housing compared to stock.

Whats the reliability factor on the F23? I've heard some mixed reviews.


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[lettuce]

Whats the reliability factor on the F23? I've heard some mixed reviews.

Been DDing mine since around August or July. Done a few dozen 1/4 mile runs at the track, not so much as a sputter out of the thing since I bolted it on. Drives even better than stock. I think most of the mixed reviews were from either running K04 tunes before the F23L had its own tune, which it didn't like, or from very early hardware revisions. There have been a few updates since it was released, so I would think any kinks have been worked out by now.

lettuce - first off, great car man and well done on the work. Love your build thread - keep it up bud; drive fast, take chances and swerve carefully

you too my man.

[MrTylerRaines]

Been DDing mine since around August or July. Done a few dozen 1/4 mile runs at the track, not so much as a sputter out of the thing since I bolted it on. Drives even better than stock. I think most of the mixed reviews were from either running K04 tunes before the F23L had its own tune, which it didn't like, or from very early hardware revisions. There have been a few updates since it was released, so I would think any kinks have been worked out by now.



you too my man.

Much appreciated. That is the feedback I have been looking for. So many people on the fence with no real testimonials.


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