B5 down! Timing belt snapped... (ECS KIT)

[J Ozzie]

So.. driving back home today not even 2 minutes from my door step i loose power steering and my car dies. So i pull over, tried starting it nothing.. look down and see both belts snapped with a nice smell of burnt rubber.
few minutes ago i popped the timing belt case clips and pulled out a nice long piece of wired belt...


Worst thing is the kit was from ECSTuning and its only got about 20km on it if that....


Now im hooped and seriously upset..


B5 Down :(

[Nollywood]

Sorry to hear this.

Something's not right though. You lost ALL 3 belts at the same time? 1 must have caused the rest, and I can assure you it was NOT the timing belt.

I have seen this happen before on a B3 Audi Coupé 2.0 16V. Same belt setup as the B5 A4 1.8T. The alternator / water pump belt snapped, and the power steering belt got dislodged as it rode over the serpentine belt. The serpentine belt wrapped round the crank pulley, and was eventually dragged through the small space between the lower timing belt cover.

The timing belt rode over the remains of the serpentine belt till it stretched and snapped, killing the motor. I would examine your lower timing belt cover and pulley, see where the remains of the external belts ended up.

Good luck. At least you weren't at WOT, so damage should be minimal, and confined to valves only.

[J Ozzie]

it sucks real bad!

well the belt furthest to the front (alt belt i believe) snapped taking out the PS belt and jamming it.
Could that belt cause the car not to crank being stuck?

The Drill type dry electric sound im hearing, does that mean its bricked? stuck?

im going to take er apart in the am to see whats going on.

[Nollywood]

If a belt is wrapped firmly enough around the crank pulley, it IS possible to get a no-crank condition.

By drill type dry electric sound, I'm assuming you're referring to the flat sound an engine makes when there's no compression (like all the spark plugs are removed). If yes, then you've bent valves in 1 or more cylinders.

If you mean a starter motor sound (engine not turning) then it's possible your valves are fine.

You need to establish whether the engine turns WHEN you turn the key to the start position, you may need someone to help you with this. In the meantime, try removing the external belt remnants, and pull the timing belt covers.

[Cybersombosis]

Yikes. Sorry to hear this Jamie!!!

Doug

[19birel]

Sorry to hear about this. You most likely have bent valves, if your revs were low, the guides may have survived. I had to have my head rebuilt and it ran me about $600 usd, but you could get away with just buying a used head for around $250.

Before replacing anything though, I would find out exactly what caused the alternator belt to snap (assuming you replaced that when you did the timing belt) to avoid a repeat incident.

You said you purchased an ECS kit, was it the Ultimate kit?

[J Ozzie]

If a belt is wrapped firmly enough around the crank pulley, it IS possible to get a no-crank condition.

By drill type dry electric sound, I'm assuming you're referring to the flat sound an engine makes when there's no compression (like all the spark plugs are removed). If yes, then you've bent valves in 1 or more cylinders.

If you mean a starter motor sound (engine not turning) then it's possible your valves are fine.

You need to establish whether the engine turns WHEN you turn the key to the start position, you may need someone to help you with this. In the meantime, try removing the external belt remnants, and pull the timing belt covers.

Totalllllly not what I wanted to be hearing... Although I kinda knew it. I am putting the car into service mode shortly and going to see what happened exactly.

Yikes. Sorry to hear this Jamie!!!

Doug

Yeah, it reallllllly sucks.

Sorry to hear about this. You most likely have bent valves, if your revs were low, the guides may have survived. I had to have my head rebuilt and it ran me about $600 usd, but you could get away with just buying a used head for around $250.

Before replacing anything though, I would find out exactly what caused the alternator belt to snap (assuming you replaced that when you did the timing belt) to avoid a repeat incident.

You said you purchased an ECS kit, was it the Ultimate kit?

now im trying to figure out the costs and how long my downtime will be and is it really worth rebuilding it..i love my B5 Casa.

Ultimate kit.... totally was.

[19birel]

Totalllllly not what I wanted to be hearing... Although I kinda knew it. I am putting the car into service mode shortly and going to see what happened exactly.




Yeah, it reallllllly sucks.





now im trying to figure out the costs and how long my downtime will be and is it really worth rebuilding it..i love my B5 Casa.

Ultimate kit.... totally was.

If it was the ultimate kit and you replaced all the belts, definitely find out what caused the belt to fail. Cost wise, if you do the work yourself it will set you back about $1k if you opt to have the head rebuilt (I bought my car with bent valves and literally just went through doing all this). If you plan to keep the car, get the head redone as they also replaces the seals while they are in there and with new valves and having it properly decked it's almost like putting a brand new one on.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

[J Ozzie]

You thinking 1k for a haul over? Is there any kinda warranty on these kits. Pretty pissed that yet another part from ECS has failed... First my Coolant Flange now my timing kit.... Wtf

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Wrath And Tears]

Have you actually verified what caused the issue? Sounds like you haven't. You need to verify all of your drive belt pulleys and tensioners as well as alt, p/s, a/c pulleys are all spinning free. The most common reason a belt breaks is that a pulley freezes. If it actually was an issue with the timing belt then your drive belts wouldn't have broken. Like others have said something happened to your drive belts to take out your timing belt.

I haven't looked at the timing belt kits from ECS in a bit but I'm pretty sure they use top quality parts. The continental timing kits are the best and as well as drive belts. INA makes great tensioners and pulleys.

Any warranty claims would be handled through the manufacturers of the parts, but unless you can prove one of the new parts failed your claims will probably be denied.

[J Ozzie]

This is the code that came up when I scanned it... Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)



Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[vrmm]

If you find a used head and just buy a timing belt, after a hg and rollers it should only be 2-500$. I can find used heads with good valves for 75$ sometimes(plus 50 for shipping). If it was me I would reuse reuse your head bolts. That'll save you a tiny bit.

[Gumby]

If it was me I would reuse reuse your head bolts. That'll save you a tiny bit.

WHAT?! Jamie, absolutely do NOT reuse your head bolts. They're one time use stretch bolts.

[J Ozzie]

Have you actually verified what caused the issue? Sounds like you haven't. You need to verify all of your drive belt pulleys and tensioners as well as alt, p/s, a/c pulleys are all spinning free. The most common reason a belt breaks is that a pulley freezes. If it actually was an issue with the timing belt then your drive belts wouldn't have broken. Like others have said something happened to your drive belts to take out your timing belt.

I haven't looked at the timing belt kits from ECS in a bit but I'm pretty sure they use top quality parts. The continental timing kits are the best and as well as drive belts. INA makes great tensioners and pulleys.

Any warranty claims would be handled through the manufacturers of the parts, but unless you can prove one of the new parts failed your claims will probably be denied.

Checked all pulleys they all spin, belts even tight too... What I think happened was when the alt belt blew it took out the Power steering belt that shredded broke the cover and threw strands into the timing belt area. Which looks like it went into the spline area and caused the belt to skip... Im about 13 splines off from TDC... How ever there is compression when cranking to reach TDC as it gets stiff to wrench then goes loose and does that until I reach TDC.

Sent from my Nexus 7

[Nollywood]

So from what I can deduce, the belt did NOT snap. You may wish to change your thread title, as it makes ECS look like the villains here.

With a known 13 teeth off, I would NOT be cranking to change check for compression. Get it timed up, then take things from there.

[SN95Audi87]

So his motor is ok and his front end belts just snapped?

[vrmm]

Reuse your headbolts if you want. It'll be fine and dandy. I have a trillion times more horsepower and have been doing it over the last 60k. I've actually only heard of one person having a problem, but given the way he stated it, I'm not sure it was the cause of any of his problems. I've reused tty headbolts on multiple boosted cars and, like I said, never had an issue. You aren't ever going to be in the power range to lift a head, so yeah, do what you want. Maybe you will gain experience and be able to tell others of your experience instead of just reading about things on the Internet. It's a win win :)

Sorry to detract from the topic at hand!

[walky_talky20]

^Agree. I've reused a lot of 1.8T head bolts. Never a problem. Now, if the car is overheated and warped the head, then the bolts take a beating and you want to replace. Other manufacturers use the same sort of TTY bolts, but instead of a super spendy "always replace" rule, they tell you to just check the bolt length against a stretch specification. Unless the car has 400k on it or was overheated, the bolts are almost always well within spec and you just reuse them. No worries, especially for a DD. Now if you're well above stock power levels, then you're likely burning piles of cash anyway, so it doesn't matter. ARP everything.

[J Ozzie]

uploadfromtaptalk1454482034931.jpguploadfromtaptalk1454482044807.jpguploadfromtaptalk1454482060252.jpguploadfromtaptalk1454482084641.jpg

Just went out and it looks like piston 1 and 4 have valve marks... So that means a full head rebuild

Here's the catch.. is it worth it? my car sits at 189518 Miles (305xxxkm)


All Converted and off FCP Euro
Local shop says $392 to machine the head and get it back to spec, plus $15/ Valve (lets say 8 are bad) $134.40


New Head Gasket $94
Head Bolts $22.16
Valve Cover Gasket $20.75
Timing Belt kit $318.11
Oil Change $60
Coolant $40
Timing belt cover $77.41

Total So far: $1160 bucks... and i Haven't gotten into it yet.






Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[B5A4coastie]

is it worth it?

Well this really depends on how much money you have already put into your car. Is your maintenance up to date? Have you replaced a bunch of suspension parts, mounts?

That's why I kept my car after I bent a valve not paying attention when I was putting it back together. I replaced everything but the crank shaft, intermediate shaft, and pistons in my block and now I have a rebuilt head, so in theory, my engine has 15K miles on it. That to me plus all the suspension parts I've replaced makes it worth the money and frustration to keep.

I had 8 of my valve guides out of spec at 108,000 miles, that's a little more money as well.

[nemick]

If the rest of your car is in good shape, it's worth it. These things can easily get to 300K miles if well maintained, so $1160.00 could be seen as a great investment.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

That head service probably isn't worth it. Grab a good used head. My belt slipped on my B6 and trashed 18 of the 20 valves. I just found a good head off a running engine for $400. Popped the old one off slapped a new gasket down with new bolts along with a t-belt kit, refilled with oil, topped off the coolant, and I was back on the road.

Jason

[walky_talky20]

I doubt the head needs resurfaced (and $392 to do a resurface is a rip off anyway. Should be 100 bucks). If this were mine, I'd slap some valves in it and throw it back together. In fact, that's exactly what I did when it happened to me.

Car had 200k on it when the t-belt randomly let go. I literally just pulled the head, threw 9 new valves in it, cleaned the gasket surface, and bolted it back down with a new gasket. I didn't even lap the valves in (I recommend you do that). I did replace a few other things "whilst I was in there", but they were just maintenance things. Have put another 75k miles on it since then. No worries. If you do it yourself, it shouldn't be a $1000 repair.

[ray4624]

94 for a head gasket? Just go with an elring brand for like 20 dollars and youll be fine.

you should be able to find a used head without issue, slap it on with new gaskets and tb kit and be good to go.
Should be around 500 total or so.

ive got 2 spare AEB heads that i havent been able to give away locally lol

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

As preventative maintenance you may also want to service the timing chain tensioner since you'll have the head off and it will be super easy. You can also opt to do valve guide seals this way you have refreshed everything.

Jason

[andyrew]

I agree 392 for resurfacing (Even if it includes hot tanking) is very high.

I just had my block and head cleaned, checked, and surfaced. The rotating assembly balanced, the crank and oil drive polished, the bores honed and rods put on the pistons (for good measure) for $510....


Here is what I would do. Your head is likely fine in terms of flatness, you dont NEED to surface it since it ran previously and didnt leak coolant into the oil/vice versa I assume.

Grab one of these, pull the head off, take it to a (different) machine shop and have them clean and check the head and valves. Should be under $75.

When you get it back and they say which valves are bad, replace them with this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131538012264...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

And here are your parts.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/97-01-Audi-A...lUtwSq&vxp=mtr

You will likely need to use different bolts as the AEB and AWM take different width bolts, but this is most of the stuff you need to get it back on the road. And unless you have a bigger turbo that head gasket/bolts will probably be just fine.

Put new belts on it with your existing roller and tensioner and install your damn covers.

[ricekikr]

Use straight edge and feeler gauge to check for flatness. Cost >$10.

The Aeb (not sure of others) head seems to take a beating before it warps.

[Papa_Dios]

Just saw this 😰😰😰. As others have stated though it isn't the end of the world.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[J Ozzie]

everything in Canada is so much more! our dollar right now SUCKSSSSS!

As for that machine shop... thats one of the cheaper... first quote was 500..
the head gasket kit and such ( US $54.01 Approximately C $75.99 + shipping)

I have 8g to play around with for a new car but... do i want to dump money into this to have it last only so long. Ill be going to school shortly for Heavy Mechanics and need a good reliable classy Audi.. not saying if i fix mine its gonna do this all over again....
UGH, i love my B5 and hate that this happened!

Stressful and frustrating!

[walky_talky20]

Relax. It will be ok.

This happened to me. 2 weeks and couple hundred bucks later, I was tach'ing out 3rd gear like nothing ever happened.

[redline380]

Relax. It will be ok.

This happened to me. 2 weeks and couple hundred bucks later, I was tach'ing out 3rd gear like nothing ever happened.

Precisely. Just relax, anything can be fixed. A few parts and a weekend later and you will be fine.

[MacDaddy]

There's a guy in Langley parting out two 1.8 b5's on Craigslist right now, considering he sold the facelift headlights for $20 each I'm sure you could get the engine for like $500

[Cybersombosis]

Do you have a link to the part out?

Doug

[vrmm]

Get a straight edge and then give me 20$ for shipping a full set of ex and in valves if it's straight, don't get a timing belt cover, reuse your valve cover gasket(with rtv if needed Permetex The Right Stuff), reuse headbolts, don't change your oil or filter till you actually need to since you haven't technically spit metal into it(or do if there's coolant), reuse any coolant you have and/or use dexcool/just distilled water/ just straight water(what I do in the summer if I have had to pull apart my engine((it won't rust like everyone likes to think (Seriously!!!!))), and you're left with a timing belt kit, HG 94$, and 20$
I'm sure others would also send valves your way for shipping. That's 432.11$ vs your 1k+. Imagine you have a ford. Would you spend so much to get it running? No. Just cause it's german doesn't mean it'll spontaneously combust if you don't feed it unnecessary parts.

I know it's late to respond, but maybe you haven't made a decision yet :)

[Gumby]

There's a guy in Langley parting out two 1.8 b5's on Craigslist right now, considering he sold the facelift headlights for $20 each I'm sure you could get the engine for like $500

He's selling the b5 as is. He already picked up a 6-speed Arctic white b6.

[J Ozzie]

He's selling the b5 as is. He already picked up a 6-speed Arctic white b6.

Just as Gumby said... B5 is pending sale, gonna miss it a lil.. But to Handel with the loss... I have this now.

uploadfromtaptalk1455421965122.jpguploadfromtaptalk1455421979083.jpg

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[Davdraco1]

Just want to say that I had everything shear off my crank when I blew my motor last summer. I had a gates racing Kevlar timing belt and it didn't snap on me when everything sheard. I got it from ECS.