Unfortunate situation dont know what to do

[loaded613]

So the other day my 05 1.8t s line died on me after getting 2ft out of the drive way after stuttering a couple times and letting out big cloud of smoke, and by the way it died i knew it wasn't good. Long story short i towed it to my mechanic and found out the turbo leaked oil into the intake and hydro-locked the engine which is pretty much beyond repair. Ive spent a load of money over the past 5 years fixing rusted fenders, changing the timing belt twice, replaced the clutch, all the control arms,ball joints,tie rods, milltek exhaust, vogtland coilovers (that are less then a year old) ect. The mechanic quoted me 18hours for the job and the engine would cost $1200 for one with around 250,000km. So thats a minimum 3 grand before tax not including any unforseen issues and not knowing how well maintained the motor was. So im not quite sure what i should do. A friend of mine knows a mechanic that could probably cut the labor cost in half. Should i bite the bullet and replace the motor or just cut my losses and maybe part out or sell the car as is. Im really not sure what i should do as the car is 11 years old. Id really like to hear some of your opinions on the situation, cause im kinda torn right now between cutting my losses and getting a new car or fixing it, i mean i love the car i had it for 5 years and never got bored of it and its great fun in the winter but is it really the smart choice to sink more money into it? Please help me out.

[tHatOne guY]

If the car is paid off, I suggest keeping it. Since you have already replaced all the other high fail rate parts while it sucks to have to replace the engine, that would be the route I suggest. All the wrench time all the work you have put into this one thus far...

As far as the engine, is there a rod bent? Hole in the block? What exactly failed in the engine? Hydro locks can be cleared easily. But sometimes it's not that simple maybe that's the case here. Idk.

And as far as your mechanic goes, if you trust him and he does good by you then stick with him. Sometimes the cheaper price may seem like the way to go initially but there is no guarantee by the end of the job the price won't be just as much if not more than what you were quoted by the mechanic you have been dealing with in the past.

[Fociracr]

If the car is paid off, I suggest keeping it. Since you have already replaced all the other high fail rate parts while it sucks to have to replace the engine, that would be the route I suggest. All the wrench time all the work you have put into this one thus far...

As far as the engine, is there a rod bent? Hole in the block? What exactly failed in the engine? Hydro locks can be cleared easily. But sometimes it's not that simple maybe that's the case here. Idk.

And as far as your mechanic goes, if you trust him and he does good by you then stick with him. Sometimes the cheaper price may seem like the way to go initially but there is no guarantee by the end of the job the price won't be just as much if not more than what you were quoted by the mechanic you have been dealing with in the past.

Keep it. Get a used motor you can probably get it for cheaper than 1200, look on eBay, craigslist etc those things are everywhere. Before you put the new engine in tho I would replace the timing chain and all the other things that are easy to do while the engine is out, good luck,

[chad99]

Im curious how your mechanic came to that conclusion?
If he saw a bit of oil in the intake track and figured that's what caused it, I would be questioning him since its not uncommon to find oil there.

[crazyquik22023]

Im curious how your mechanic came to that conclusion?
If he saw a bit of oil in the intake track and figured that's what caused it, I would be questioning him since its not uncommon to find oil there.

Yes exactly. It is normal to find a good cup or so of oil in the intercooler on the 1.8t. I would get a second opinion to verify the motor is trashed. Or at least have him show you why the engine is supposedly ruined.

[redline380]

Long story short i towed it to my mechanic and found out the turbo leaked oil into the intake and hydro-locked the engine which is pretty much beyond repair.

I call bullshit hard on this one.

Find someone who knows what they are doing.

[customa4]

I call bullshit hard on this one.

Find someone who knows what they are doing.

This^^ The repair could cost you a lot more than needed if the person is not diagnosing it properly. Our intake tracts live with oil in them pretty much throughout the life of the car.

[MacFady]

White or black smoke? What codes are you throwing.

[613B6]

If your in Ottawa, call Adroc Automotive and ask for Jay Bowles or call Keith at Tapp Auto/Eurodyne.

[redline380]

This^^ The repair could cost you a lot more than needed if the person is not diagnosing it properly. Our intake tracts live with oil in them pretty much throughout the life of the car.

Not to mention, 18 hours to replace an engine?

This mechanic clearly has no idea what he is talking about. Oil in the intake tract is not only common, but expected. He probably removed the lower hose, poured some oil out, and made a poor diagnosis without a thorough inspection.

In my younger years, I had a 99 grand am gt with major problems. Took it into a "mechanic" that my dad recommended. Dude took 10 minutes to diagnose a "bad engine" and I would need a new one. I figured, how could he possibly diagnose a bad engine in ten minutes? Took it to a new friend at the time who works at a diesel shop. Turns out, I had a bad head gasket on the front bank. He helped me change it for free.

That was the last time I have ever brought a car of mine to a shop for anything besides alignments. Well, there was the time I paid $175 to have a serpentine belt replaced on my avant, but I was 100 miles from home and the tow would have been more than that.

Lesson- take this opportunity to learn how to diagnose yourself. You will save a bunch of money in the long run. And by all means, post more info up about the problem. Plenty of guys around here willing to help you start learning how to diagnose

[loaded613]

If the car is paid off, I suggest keeping it. Since you have already replaced all the other high fail rate parts while it sucks to have to replace the engine, that would be the route I suggest. All the wrench time all the work you have put into this one thus far...

As far as the engine, is there a rod bent? Hole in the block? What exactly failed in the engine? Hydro locks can be cleared easily. But sometimes it's not that simple maybe that's the case here. Idk.

And as far as your mechanic goes, if you trust him and he does good by you then stick with him. Sometimes the cheaper price may seem like the way to go initially but there is no guarantee by the end of the job the price won't be just as much if not more than what you were quoted by the mechanic you have been dealing with in the past.

Yes the car is paid off so it totally makes sense to put a bit more money in to keep it going. And fortunately the mechanic used to work at vw for 20+ years so it puts me at ease a little bit but you have a valid point thanks!

White or black smoke? What codes are you throwing.

It was white smoke and I haven't gotten a chance to check the codes yet unfortunately.\

If your in Ottawa, call Adroc Automotive and ask for Jay Bowles or call Keith at Tapp Auto/Eurodyne.

Yes I do live in Ottawa actually, and not far from tap. a second opinion couldn't really hurt. Which one would you call first if it was up to you?

Thanks for the input guys im really leaning towards keeping it now, id be hurt if I had to get rid of it so I want to do everything possible to keep it without spending too much money .

[jesse500]

Good oportunity for a 2.7T swap! Otherwise, find a parted out A4. There are tons in ON for cheap. Buy one with a good running motor, for <$1000, and have a remaining parts car, make some $$ back. Motor swap is not hard on these cars. Otherwise, bring it to shop, supply motor & other items to keep cost low. You can do alot of the work easily before you drop it off to lower labour. Like remove front of car.

[imnuts]

Really confused as to how oil would hydro-lock an engine, seeing as oil is used to lubricate the engine.

[redline380]

Really confused as to how oil would hydro-lock an engine, seeing as oil is used to lubricate the engine.

Same exact way water, gas, or any other liquid would hydrolock an engine. Piston can't compress liquid that is in there and it stops the crank. boom, locked and rods bent.

But there is no way enough oil got into the engine to hydrolock it. You would literally have to pour it straight in there for it to happen.

[Luxus Panzer]

Sounds strange.

There is a SUPER VW mechanic in Gatineau (I see your status says Ottawa)

Rune is a super honest dude and knows his stuff. He was trained as a VW tech back in the day then bought his own shop.

He is the only guy who is allowed to touch my car (when I don't wrench it myself) and my wife's VW Tiguan (still under warranty, so all work is done by a Mech)

http://www.autoallemagne.com/

For the price of a tow out there and his diagnosis, money well spent to know exactly what is going on.

[loaded613]

so i brought it in to tapp auto and they diganosed it as just the turbo needing replacing as the got the motor running. Im looking for a k04-015, preferably a supplier in canada. Does anyone have any recommendations? Also is there anything else i should replace/upgrade while im at it ?

[redline380]

so i brought it in to tapp auto and they diganosed it as just the turbo needing replacing as the got the motor running. Im looking for a k04-015, preferably a supplier in canada. Does anyone have any recommendations? Also is there anything else i should replace/upgrade while im at it ?

Wow, go figure. Glad you got a second opinion.

Don;t waste your money on a k04. Get a frankenturbo at least.

[SJorge3442]

so i brought it in to tapp auto and they diganosed it as just the turbo needing replacing as the got the motor running. Im looking for a k04-015, preferably a supplier in canada. Does anyone have any recommendations? Also is there anything else i should replace/upgrade while im at it ?

looks like its time to stop going to the old "trusted" mechanic. Seems like he just wanted your money

Do you already have a k04? If not, its probably not worth the hassle of everything that you'd need in order to run the turbo (injectors, tune, etc). Plus, plenty of people have proven that with pump gas, the k04 really has no advantage to the k03.

[loaded613]

looks like its time to stop going to the old "trusted" mechanic. Seems like he just wanted your money

Do you already have a k04? If not, its probably not worth the hassle of everything that you'd need in order to run the turbo (injectors, tune, etc). Plus, plenty of people have proven that with pump gas, the k04 really has no advantage to the k03.

yeah im really disappointed about my regular mechanic. no i do not have the k04 yet, its was quoted at 1500 just for the turbo and that was from the states as our canadian dollar is shit right now. I was hoping to get some sort of upgrade since it is time to replace the turbo. Do you have any other suggestions with out having to dish out a lot of money? (note i do already have 386cc injectors that i can put in with the turbo and also have supporting mods like turbo back exhaust; dont know if that makes any difference)

[loaded613]

Wow, go figure. Glad you got a second opinion.

Don;t waste your money on a k04. Get a frankenturbo at least.

yeah im very happy i got a second opinion before dishing out that kind of money. Do you think the franken turbo has a good enough difference to spend the extra money on it ?

[SJorge3442]

yeah im very happy i got a second opinion before dishing out that kind of money. Do you think the franken turbo has a good enough difference to spend the extra money on it ?

like redline said, go with a frakenturbo. Thats what I would do. I know the CA dollar sucks, I've been trying to plan a Vancouver snowboard trip to take advantage of it. Frankenturbo, plus injectors (if the ones you have wont work), plus Motoza tune and you're in business. It'll be like a new car. What software are you running now (assuming you have software for those larger injectors)?

[redline380]

yeah im very happy i got a second opinion before dishing out that kind of money. Do you think the franken turbo has a good enough difference to spend the extra money on it ?

Yes, I do. I went all out on my sedan and changed rods. For my avant, I eventually want to run a gtrs, which is what I think most people would want. I will put rods in, but it isn't necessary. You may want to look into a gtrs, but the frankenturbo is cheap, proven, and offers a decent package.

But I will let you in on a little secret. Rock Auto has Mahle branded turbos (k03) for $600 US. Now, I cannot speak for their quality, but Mahle usually puts out top of the line products. In fact, they made 1.8t pistons for Audi. But if you want to upgrade, now is the time.

[loaded613]

like redline said, go with a frakenturbo. Thats what I would do. I know the CA dollar sucks, I've been trying to plan a Vancouver snowboard trip to take advantage of it. Frankenturbo, plus injectors (if the ones you have wont work), plus Motoza tune and you're in business. It'll be like a new car. What software are you running now (assuming you have software for those larger injectors)?

should i go with the k04 franken turbo or the k03 version? the injectors are not currently installed, and im unsure of the current software as it came tuned when I bought the car. i tried calling several tuning companies but no one had a record. I would like the get a eurodyne re tune since it will be a tapp anyways and eruodyne is listed on the franken turbo website.

[SJorge3442]

should i go with the k04 franken turbo or the k03 version? the injectors are not currently installed, and im unsure of the current software as it came tuned when I bought the car. i tried calling several tuning companies but no one had a record. I would like the get a eurodyne re tune since it will be a tapp anyways and eruodyne is listed on the franken turbo website.

As I have a 3.0 I'm probably not the best person for 1.8 advice, but Old Guy seems to be liking his FT MixedFlow F21L with Motoza tuning. Dave at Motoza is awesome from what I heard and he works closely with you and your specific log files to get a great tune setup. You start off with a "box" tune and then send him some data logs and he makes adjustments where needed.

Here's the link directly to the site. Again, do your research, as there is a setup for every purpose. Old Guy dailys his car and hasnt any issues since switching to this turbo and tune setup.

[customa4]

You can get a Borg Warner K03 from here(select Borg Warner) for $595 and free ground shipping to the U.S. International shipping is an option but will probably not be free.

You're gonna need to pay for a tune if you want to run a K04 with the TT225 injectors. You can install the K04 without a tune, no problem. If you want to put in the TT225 injectors and see a performance increase, you need a tune.

[diagnosticator]

I don't believe there is any possible way the turbo could suddenly leak enough oil to hydrolock the engine. When you parked the car after driving last time, was there any signs or symptoms of a lot of oil leaking from the turbo before it was parked?

The way oil flows through the turbo is via the pressurized oil supply pipe, into the two journal bearings and then drains from the turbo into the crankcase oil pan. The pressurized oil is not applied directly to the turbo compressor shaft seal. Consequently, the oil leaving the compressor impeller end journal bearing exits the bearing through the clearance between the bearing and the turbo shaft. The seal for the compressor impeller end of the shaft is not located directly against the turbo bearing, there is open space in the bearing housing between the bearing and the seal. Oil cannot drain continuously from the turbo into the intake manifold since the oil cannot flow through the turbo unless the engine oil pump is pumping pressurized oil to the turbo. Sitting parked with the engine OFF, there is no way for oil to flow out of the turbo shaft seal into the intake. Even if the turbo shaft seal was leaking a lot, there is no direct way for oil supplied to the bearing to get to the shaft seal and leak from the shaft seal with enough flow volume to flood one of the cylinders with oil.

[redline380]

I don't believe there is any possible way the turbo could suddenly leak enough oil to hydrolock the engine. When you parked the car after driving last time, was there any signs or symptoms of a lot of oil leaking from the turbo before it was parked?

There is only one scenario I can think of- if the car was shut off and over a quart of oil leaked past the seals. Enough would have to leak so there was no air passage through the intake. Upon vacuum when the engine starts, it might suck up enough oil to hydrolock.

But I just do not see this as a plausible scenario at all. I mean, you could have a couple quarts of oil sitting in the tubing and air would still get to the engine. It might suck up a little oil, but not nearly enough to hydrolock.

[loaded613]

I don't believe there is any possible way the turbo could suddenly leak enough oil to hydrolock the engine. When you parked the car after driving last time, was there any signs or symptoms of a lot of oil leaking from the turbo before it was parked?

The way oil flows through the turbo is via the pressurized oil supply pipe, into the two journal bearings and then drains from the turbo into the crankcase oil pan. Pressurized oil is not applied directly to the turbo compressor shaft seal. Consequently, the oil leaving the compressor impeller end journal bearing exits the bearing through the clearance between the bearing and the turbo shaft. The seal for the compressor impeller end of the shaft is not located directly against the turbo bearing, there is open space inside the bearing housing between the bearing and the seal. Oil cannot drain continuously from the turbo into the intake manifold with the engine OFF, since oil cannot flow through the turbo unless the engine oil pump is pumping pressurized oil to the turbo. Sitting parked with the engine OFF, there is no way for oil to flow out of the turbo shaft seal into the intake. Even if the turbo shaft seal was leaking a lot, there is no direct way for oil supplied to the bearing to get to the shaft seal and leak from the shaft seal with enough flow volume to flood one of the cylinders with oil.

The night before i didnt notice anything out of the ordinary and I notice every little sound and any imperfction when driving. Although before it happend my car was idling for a solid 10 minutes to warm it up. Tapp auto told me just enough oil got in to make the engine quit. So they did some testing and leak down and compression test checked out ( i believe he did a wet compression test). He managed to get it running with the exception of a lot of smoke out of the exhaust but it did run. So he thinks it is just the turbo and no major damage was done to the motor.

[diagnosticator]

There is only one scenario I can think of- if the car was shut off and over a quart of oil leaked past the seals. Enough would have to leak so there was no air passage through the intake. Upon vacuum when the engine starts, it might suck up enough oil to hydrolock.

But I just do not see this as a plausible scenario at all. I mean, you could have a couple quarts of oil sitting in the tubing and air would still get to the engine. It might suck up a little oil, but not nearly enough to hydrolock.

One point I argued in my last post, has to do with the impossibility of oil leaking from the turbo with the engine turned OFF, with enough oil volume to hydrolock the engine.

[diagnosticator]

The night before i didnt notice anything out of the ordinary and I notice every little sound and any imperfction when driving. Although before it happend my car was idling for a solid 10 minutes to warm it up. Tapp auto told me just enough oil got in to make the engine quit. So they did some testing and leak down and compression test checked out ( i believe he did a wet compression test). He managed to get it running with the exception of a lot of smoke out of the exhaust but it did run. So he thinks it is just the turbo and no major damage was done to the motor.

The turbo is not going to develop a huge seal leak overnight with the engine shut off. Implausible theory by the shop.

[diagnosticator]

There is only one scenario I can think of- if the car was shut off and over a quart of oil leaked past the seals. Enough would have to leak so there was no air passage through the intake. Upon vacuum when the engine starts, it might suck up enough oil to hydrolock.

But I just do not see this as a plausible scenario at all. I mean, you could have a couple quarts of oil sitting in the tubing and air would still get to the engine. It might suck up a little oil, but not nearly enough to hydrolock.

I agree.

[diagnosticator]

I call bullshit hard on this one.

Find someone who knows what they are doing.

^^2nd.

[ECS Tuning-Audi]

We have Vaico replacement K03 turbos for $529.95 which ship for free within the US. Seeing as you're in Canada get in contact with EuroSport. They are one of our main distributors for our customers up North. They offer some great incentives as well.

Jason

[loaded613]

Is it worth changing the rods if I'm upgrading turbo? (went with the franken with 550cc injectors and 3" maf)

[old guy]

Is it worth changing the rods if I'm upgrading turbo? (went with the franken with 550cc injectors and 3" maf)

You don't need to change the rods for a F21L. Save the $$ and put it toward an intercooler upgrade.

[loaded613]

You don't need to change the rods for a F21L. Save the $$ and put it toward an intercooler upgrade.

I was thinking of preventative maintenance because of what the motor just went through but if its not needed i would much rather put it towards an intercooler as im sure it will benefit a great deal from it. i was planning on going side mount as i didn't want to deal with hassle of modifying my bumper to make it fit ect. and plus the side mounts are much more cost effective. Any recommendations?

[loaded613]

So after about close to a month waiting for parts and everything to come in and get it installed i finally got my car back yesterday. I must say so far i am very very happy with the frankenturbo F21L turbo kit. I opted for the 550cc injectors and the 3" maf and i think its perfect. I am very luck to live just minutes away from TAPP AUTO. They are a great bunch of guys over there who know exactly what they are doing, and Keith was very helpful answering any questions I had during the process and just an overall awesome guy to deal with! I was skeptical about my engine having some issues after the first garage said it needed replacing but Keith assured me it was still solid and good to go. Never the less she still purrs like a kitten which i was very relieved to see. Now the fun part, i cant believe how crisp and smooth it runs with this turbo kit, still drives like stock and when you put your foot down its pulls hard and i think its perfect considering I do 90% city driving. I really couldn't be any happier right now. Its running the eurodyne software which chris tapp himself tuned and tested on a road test. I've yet to drive it really do a lot of hard driving but i can say it holds boost a lot better and a lot longer than my old k03. It really does feel like a brand new car which im really stoked about. So i just want to say with the little time I have had it so far, I highly recommend the frankenturbo kit for anyone looking for a little extra juice out of their car, and would definitely recommend TAPP AUTO for anyone who lives in the area. I hope this kit brings me years of fun and reliability.

[jesse500]

So after about close to a month waiting for parts and everything to come in and get it installed i finally got my car back yesterday. I must say so far i am very very happy with the frankenturbo F21L turbo kit. I opted for the 550cc injectors and the 3" maf and i think its perfect. I am very luck to live just minutes away from TAPP AUTO. They are a great bunch of guys over there who know exactly what they are doing, and Keith was very helpful answering any questions I had during the process and just an overall awesome guy to deal with! I was skeptical about my engine having some issues after the first garage said it needed replacing but Keith assured me it was still solid and good to go. Never the less she still purrs like a kitten which i was very relieved to see. Now the fun part, i cant believe how crisp and smooth it runs with this turbo kit, still drives like stock and when you put your foot down its pulls hard and i think its perfect considering I do 90% city driving. I really couldn't be any happier right now. Its running the eurodyne software which chris tapp himself tuned and tested on a road test. I've yet to drive it really do a lot of hard driving but i can say it holds boost a lot better and a lot longer than my old k03. It really does feel like a brand new car which im really stoked about. So i just want to say with the little time I have had it so far, I highly recommend the frankenturbo kit for anyone looking for a little extra juice out of their car, and would definitely recommend TAPP AUTO for anyone who lives in the area. I hope this kit brings me years of fun and reliability.

What RPM does the boost start coming on strong? What exhaust do you have? cat, HFC or test pipe? Thats good to hear though man!!

[loaded613]

What RPM does the boost start coming on strong? What exhaust do you have? cat, HFC or test pipe? Thats good to hear though man!!

I havent had a good chance to look at that but after I take it for a good drive tonight I will observe it a little better and let you know. I have a milltek sport exhaust with a brand new 034 Motorsport HFC. Yesterday when it was a bit icy out I had the traction control kick in a few times and when the fuel cut hits it sounds like a dsg car shifting even more so then when it was stock, which I thought was pretty wicked sounding. I know it sounds childish but its the little things that make me happy sometimes