What piggyback tune options are available for the S3?

[drew4392]

Am I correct in thinking that a piggyback tune will avoid the TD1 issue, if and when removed from the vehicle?

If so, what tune options do we have?

I know Burger Motorsports offers one. Any other companies?


Thanks!

[WHY.A.H.WHY.A]

Jb1,DTUK,Neuspeed, JFA,MTM(true piggyback), Remus,

[NJsFinest24]

Jb1,DTUK,Neuspeed, JFA,MTM(true piggyback), Remus,

I am new to the community and got a 2016 S3 two months ago. I am looking to tune the car but since it is a lease, I was looking towards using a piggyback tune rather than APR or Unitronic. The Neuspeed tune seems rather nice, just curious if anyone has it and how the piggyback tunes compare to a tune from APR or Unitronic. Thanks everyone.

[FabianS]

My buddy has a Neuspeed on his Golf R, and it seems alright, but I'd go with JB1, or DTUK myself as they are supposed to be safer units to run from what I've read into.

[roadrunner_oz]

JB1 is good, DTUK isn't safe long-term

[2015S3]

Agreed I have had all three and have done a review. I am staying with the JB1 and sold the DTUK and NS if that says anything.

[coolwater]

If your ecu is supported I recommend tune from home to avoid td1. Eurodyne or unitronic.

-cW

[roadrunner_oz]

If your ecu is supported I recommend tune from home to avoid td1. Eurodyne or unitronic.

-cW

Both of those don't reset the flash counter, so you may still possibly get a TD1. As far as I know APR is the only one to reset the counter

[coolwater]

Eurodyne was confirmed to reset flash counter.

-cW

[drew4392]

piggybacks

Smartass


Everyone else, thank you.

[JohnnyUtah787]

Eurodyne was confirmed to reset flash counter.

-cW

Reset the counter to 0 or reset the counter to whatever it originally was? For example, if the car had a flash count of 2 off the showroom floor would it reset to 0 or to 2? If to 0 I would think a halfway decent service tech may think something was amiss.

[coolwater]

Reset the counter to 0 or reset the counter to whatever it originally was? For example, if the car had a flash count of 2 off the showroom floor would it reset to 0 or to 2? If to 0 I would think a halfway decent service tech may think something was amiss.

Lol you're right. It is reset to 1 according to eurodyne.

-cW

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[JohnnyUtah787]

Lol you're right. It is reset to 1 according to eurodyne.

-cW

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Bummer. Would be nice if they could somehow log what value the counter was at pre-flash. Maybe by updating the "stock" map with a new flash count if for some reason going in for service or a warranty claim caused Audi to flash it.

[coolwater]

Bummer. Would be nice if they could somehow log what value the counter was at pre-flash. Maybe by updating the "stock" map with a new flash count if for some reason going in for service or a warranty claim caused Audi to flash it.

Reseting it to 1 should be fine. Haven't heard of anyone flagged for td1 after service yet if reflash to stock.

-cW

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[ModdedEuros]

Both of those don't reset the flash counter, so you may still possibly get a TD1. As far as I know APR is the only one to reset the counter

Flash counter does not cause TD1. OEM cars are flashed with upgrades which raise flash counters.

TD1 is when you take a flashed ECU into the dealer. Unitronic via UniConnect+ flashes back to OEM software. APR's stock mode is not a stock reflash and you would have to drive into a dealer to get flashed back to stock than back to dealer to get flashed again.

We ran the Neuspeed Power module on our S3 for over 25,000 miles
Dyno run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8E-...2XW38GWanoUGot

But once UniConnect+ came out, switched over for more power. Have UniConnect+ on our project mk7 if you want to see how it works
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...1L2OWtcQigzvoQ

[K2jer]

Flash counter does not cause TD1. OEM cars are flashed with upgrades which raise flash counters.

TD1 is when you take a flashed ECU into the dealer. Unitronic via UniConnect+ flashes back to OEM software. APR's stock mode is not a stock reflash and you would have to drive into a dealer to get flashed back to stock than back to dealer to get flashed again.

I thought all OEM flashes were logged into audis database so they know where you should be for a flash number.

[WHY.A.H.WHY.A]

Flash counter does not cause TD1. OEM cars are flashed with upgrades which raise flash counters.

TD1 is when you take a flashed ECU into the dealer. Unitronic via UniConnect+ flashes back to OEM software. APR's stock mode is not a stock reflash and you would have to drive into a dealer to get flashed back to stock than back to dealer to get flashed again.

We ran the Neuspeed Power module on our S3 for over 25,000 miles
Dyno run
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8E-...2XW38GWanoUGot

But once UniConnect+ came out, switched over for more power. Have UniConnect+ on our project mk7 if you want to see how it works
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...1L2OWtcQigzvoQ

Will the Uniconnect reset the flash counter?

[ModdedEuros]

I thought all OEM flashes were logged into audis database so they know where you should be for a flash number.

They can look up into service records to see all the service done at a dealer but checking a flash counter is not part of any standard service nor grounds to say the car has a tune as it has OEM software. P

Will the Uniconnect reset the flash counter?

no it will not

[JohnnyUtah787]

Can anyone confirm this?

1) Eurodyne - resets flash counter
2) Unitronic - does NOT reset the flash counter
3) APR - resets the flash counter

[ModdedEuros]

Also one thing to add in here. None of the tuners/piggybacks will offer a guarantee on your factory warranty as its in all the terms and conditions that by purchasing you remove liability. A dealer can run an analysis even if you use a piggyback and something goes really wrong.

Really boils down to if you are really concerned about warranties, you may not want to mod your car. It is pay to play when modding cars really. Our S3 had a power module on the car for 30,000 miles and no issues. And now is flashed Unitronic with no issues.

I would look to see which tuner has the reliability and product type you want (at home versus going to shop etc).

[coolwater]

I recommend a proper ecu tune. I've seen quite a few people switch to ecu tune after running a piggy back for a bit. Just flash back to stock before bringing it in for service and you're fine. AOA hq is right near me in VA. There are plenty of employees running stage 2 setups...

-cW

[eddiebarber]

I had a neuspeed module. No problems for a few thousand miles. Went apr stage 2, no problems for about 10k. The day before my 15k service I had a misfire on all cylinders. Turned the car off and back on and was fine till the next day when I drove it to local shop to flash to stock before service. All is good and we'll before and after service. When I flashed back to stage 2 after Service, the shop didn't test drive it, I immediately noticed something was off but kept cruising. On the highway a little roll on the throttle and the car threw lights and shuttered. I turned it off then back on and it was fine.

I rolled back on to the highway and did the same thing, same thing happened. This time the CEL didn't go away. I drove back up to local shop and flashed it back to stock, ain't even worth the power for me personally to deal with the b.s. a cam actuator code or something of the sort came back. The car drives perfectly fine stock. And there's my experience if it makes u feel any kinda way

[markn1689]

I had a neuspeed module. No problems for a few thousand miles. Went apr stage 2, no problems for about 10k. The day before my 15k service I had a misfire on all cylinders. Turned the car off and back on and was fine till the next day when I drove it to local shop to flash to stock before service. All is good and we'll before and after service. When I flashed back to stage 2 after Service, the shop didn't test drive it, I immediately noticed something was off but kept cruising. On the highway a little roll on the throttle and the car threw lights and shuttered. I turned it off then back on and it was fine.

I rolled back on to the highway and did the same thing, same thing happened. This time the CEL didn't go away. I drove back up to local shop and flashed it back to stock, ain't even worth the power for me personally to deal with the b.s. a cam actuator code or something of the sort came back. The car drives perfectly fine stock. And there's my experience if it makes u feel any kinda way

APR tuned? Not surprised

[eddiebarber]

Apr indeed.

[ModdedEuros]

Sorry to hear you were having issues? You talk to APR about it?

Think you will give up on tuning it or try again?

[eddiebarber]

I called apr. First thing he said was verify that my shop put on the right tune, which I kinda thought was a dumb suggestion if I'm being honest. Then he said try to get some logs if I could. But I wasn't willing to lay into the gas any more after these problems. Am I willing to tune, I doubt it, it's not worth the power and my peace of mind. To be riding around in a brand new car and worry if something will go wrong every time I get on the gas, and I do alot, just isn't worth it. I'm a little sad cause honestly, I'm not happy with the power from factory at all but it is what it is. I might put the neuspeed back on later, but we'll see how I feel. Im happy having a nice car with no problems for now.

[markn1689]

sorry to hear, its true. APR doesn't care. they will try to make you jump through hoops to cover their asses. luckily there are people willing to stick their necks out to expose those greedy bastards, even if we get called trolls..
good luck

[coolwater]

I called apr. First thing he said was verify that my shop put on the right tune, which I kinda thought was a dumb suggestion if I'm being honest. Then he said try to get some logs if I could. But I wasn't willing to lay into the gas any more after these problems. Am I willing to tune, I doubt it, it's not worth the power and my peace of mind. To be riding around in a brand new car and worry if something will go wrong every time I get on the gas, and I do alot, just isn't worth it. I'm a little sad cause honestly, I'm not happy with the power from factory at all but it is what it is. I might put the neuspeed back on later, but we'll see how I feel. Im happy having a nice car with no problems for now.

I'm surprised the shop that sold you the apr tune didn't log the car for you. They should have a vagcom and try to reproduce the issue and send it back to apr for analysis.

When I had giac on my a4, then did all the diagnostics when I had some wierd engine hesitation. Then like 2 weeks later I had a new giac file with all the issues worked out.

-cW

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[eddiebarber]

Honestly, the shop didn't really care and had no problem tuning it back to stock and letting me be on my merry way. $1000 some odd dollars out the door no questions. I explained the issue, they flashed back and that was more less that. Nice guys, I really like them, but they didn't even test drive the car after flashing back to stage 2 which, to me, should be common practice. But hey, a business is a business I guess. They got there's and I Def got mine! For the worse that is.

[coolwater]

Honestly, the shop didn't really care and had no problem tuning it back to stock and letting me be on my merry way. $1000 some odd dollars out the door no questions. I explained the issue, they flashed back and that was more less that. Nice guys, I really like them, but they didn't even test drive the car after flashing back to stage 2 which, to me, should be common practice. But hey, a business is a business I guess. They got there's and I Def got mine! For the worse that is.

That is no way to do business. I'm shocked they didn't even attempt to ride along and try to confirm your issues. I hope you were able to get some money back. If not that is totally ridiculous.

-cW

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[markn1689]

this is the apr way.

rush software, sell software, dont care, profit.

[Workflow]

Agree with CW- I think it's also worth naming the shop who you tuned with. I'm sorry but if they're not willing to log the car and work things out between you and APR, then I'd avoid that shop at all cost and others should do the same. I've never been APR and have always had tuners that worked with me on tweeking their tune. Your call, but a shop who doesn't give two shiits and wants to rep APR, then they both need to reassess best business practices.

[eddiebarber]

I will say this, which Is more directed at my impressions of the two and more insightful to the op question. I'm sure I will get some heat for this but they are my opinions either way. I had the downpipe and Intake with the neuspeed. When I switched over to the apr flash. I expected a different car. That was not the case, again, in my opinion. When I drove away with the flash for the first time and rolled into the gas a couple of times my initial thoughts were, "this feels almost exactly the same as it did with the neuspeed"

I work with a buddy who had a fully built k24 civic. With the neuspeed we were more less neck and neck after multiple runs, he had a slight edge. After the flash, in the same situation, I put about a car to 2 on him. Give or take. Had it not been for these comparisons I wouldn't have noticed much. Yes, I could tell from about 5500 rom it pulled more steady, but I couldn't stop asking myself if it was the money. If ur looking for every last tiny piece of power, and money dosent matter, then go ahead by all means. In hindsight. It was a waist, but I had it flashed already and didn't care to take it off. My 2 cents, hope at least someone has found my experience insightful.

[roadrunner_oz]

A flash tune is the correct and safe tuning method. The fuel and timing can be controlled. Any piggyback is going to run too lean as it cannot control fueling and in the long-term not good for the engine.

I have APR for over a year and have had no issues. I am going to switch though, as there are now more flash options available and for me the DIY flash tools are a better fit. I also have concerns over the massive torque gain from the APR tune and its impact on the DSG in the long term.

[eddiebarber]

Roadrunner. Yes, I know this is true. Some will still opt for other options whether it be peace of mind, money, or what have you. What are you going to switch to? And is it just for the ease of the DIY?

[roadrunner_oz]

Roadrunner. Yes, I know this is true. Some will still opt for other options whether it be peace of mind, money, or what have you. What are you going to switch to? And is it just for the ease of the DIY?

Switch to UniTronic. Their tune trades torque for power which IMO will serve the S3 better. The APR S1 98RON map has a bit too much torque. Also the DIY aspect is a huge plus. Downside is the flash counter, but I don't know of any TD1's automatically raised from the flash counter.

One fact that annoys me about both tuners is the permanent VIN lock. Makes it impossible to transfer the tune to another car. Essentially I am throwing away $2k in APR ECU&TCU flashes. The UniTronic cable also VIN locks. Before I used a Cobb flash cable on my BMW and that un-locked if their software was uninstalled from the car, so could be then sold to someone else.

[eddiebarber]

I'd have a hard time calling out someone else's business even with a bad experience. And while I do believe it's fair to inform others of things that may or may not go wrong, I dunno, it isn't me =/ to go back to work and tell a person or two is different then putting them on blast on a forum. Don't hate me for this sorry. The unitronic things sounds like a great situation but, I'm genuinely scared or a tune. I'd rather make it through my lease with a car intact then being scared of getting on the throttle to have something fail.

And no, I didn't get a dime back, all money gone, which a piece of me understands as I had the tune on the car for a reasonable amount of time. I get depressed when I give it gas now lol.

[eddiebarber]

Oh and let me be fair and give the whole story, i shouldn't leave anything out I feel. After flashing the car back to stock, the shop "suggested" I beat the piss out of it in hopes of recreating that same CEL code so that I can take it to the dealer, get the problem fixed, and flash my car back to stage 2. Before I flashed back to stage 2 again, he also told me apr had done an update on that file. Who knows, but that can have something to do with it.

I forgot that part. Sorry for the mess. Didn't wanna leave out any details.

[ModdedEuros]

Switch to UniTronic. Their tune trades torque for power which IMO will serve the S3 better. The APR S1 98RON map has a bit too much torque. Also the DIY aspect is a huge plus. Downside is the flash counter, but I don't know of any TD1's automatically raised from the flash counter.

One fact that annoys me about both tuners is the permanent VIN lock. Makes it impossible to transfer the tune to another car. Essentially I am throwing away $2k in APR ECU&TCU flashes. The UniTronic cable also VIN locks. Before I used a Cobb flash cable on my BMW and that un-locked if their software was uninstalled from the car, so could be then sold to someone else.

You are just giving those parts to the new owner of the car not really throwing them away. Same thing if you did an engine build with custom parts, just stays with the car. Some of the locking features is actually a safety measure to property intellectual property to make it harder to reverse engineer the product. They put a lot of time into this and are currently the only tuning company who has one on the market for at home. I understand where you are coming from though.

Another thing is Unitronic is a couple months in really on UniConnect+, you never know what functionality they will build for it.

[moffe]

About the flash counter... Well, I would think that the dealer or Audi might take a deeper look into it when they have seen that flash counter is really high.
I mean, when you are flashing around back and forth from original and the tune. If it steps the counter for every flash... Wouldn't it be weird if your flash counter was 1 or 2. Suddenly it's 10 when you go for service next time? :)
Otherwise I don't think they take much attentions for the flash counter.