2014 S5 - Center Diff Leak - Dealer TD1 Warranty Form Submitted - APR Stage 2+

[CapnToll]

So apparently I've got a center diff leak - car is in for my 25,000 km service.

They're doing what they can to have it covered under warranty - submitted the TD1 warranty claim form. I'm sure hoping Audi decides to be nice and cover it. Otherwise hope it's not the most expensive fix in the book...

Anybody else ever get a center diff leak (don't have any more info at this point), either tuned or untuned?

[Works2shoot]

So apparently I've got a center diff leak - car is in for my 25,000 km service.

They're doing what they can to have it covered under warranty - submitted the TD1 warranty claim form. I'm sure hoping Audi decides to be nice and cover it. Otherwise hope it's not the most expensive fix in the book...

Anybody else ever get a center diff leak (don't have any more info at this point), either tuned or untuned?

Not to sound insensitive to your issue, but why in the heck would you bring your car in for a one of the scheduled services and not have it flashed to stock beforehand at a minimum?

[superswiss]

Not trying to scare you, but the center diff is fully integrated into and part of the whole transmission. It's the red part on the far right. So, they probably have to take out the entire transmission and open it up. Just guessing here, but I don't think this is gonna be cheap if Audi doesn't cover it.

[CapnToll]

Not to sound insensitive to your issue, but why in the heck would you bring your car in for a one of the scheduled services and not have it flashed to stock beforehand at a minimum?

I had the entire tune uninstalled before my first service (was switching from GIAC to APR) and they still flagged the car when there was no tune on it. I assume the ECU memory shows that the software was opened up.

[Works2shoot]

I had the entire tune uninstalled before my first service (was switching from GIAC to APR) and they still flagged the car when there was no tune on it. I assume the ECU memory shows that the software was opened up.

That's Crazy!! Are you sure that the "uninstaller" just didn't put it in stock mode since it was being reflashed anyway?

[14S4GWM]

Waiting for the answer to that^

[CapnToll]

No I went to the shop that put GIAC Stage 1 on it, had it completely removed and received my full refund. Went for my first service when it was flagged and then went to a different shop to have APR Stage 2+ installed with the pulley.

[14S4GWM]

^ That sucks real bad! I hope it's not as bad as you think.

[Works2shoot]

No I went to the shop that put GIAC Stage 1 on it, had it completely removed and received my full refund. Went for my first service when it was flagged and then went to a different shop to have APR Stage 2+ installed with the pulley.

Was there an issue with the tune that caused you to go for a refund? Could have been a disgruntled shop owner. The reason we are so curious is because we thought that erasing the tune prevented TD1.

[waxxonMTL]

oush... that suck badly.... :S goes to show that even with stage having the option to revert to stock it can still be flagged anyways.. was about to pull the trigger on a stage 1.. guess i will wait 20 months before doing so :( Hopefully for you it's OK, but being a tranny part, I'm sure they can blame the additional torque of the tune to have damaged the tranny component.

[Race Shooter]

I think it depends on the tune. APR says when they go back to stock, they adjust the flash counter to go back to its previous number. I'm not sure that GIAC or the others have that capability.

If they flash it back to stock, that will show an additional flash on the ECU. So if you go in for service and it shows 0 flashes. Then you get a tune, the ECU now will show 1. If you get it flashed back to stock, the ECU now shows 2. Audi would know its been flashed twice since the service that showed 0.

So the tune you have, needs to have the capability to adjust the ECU's counter.

Simply flashing back to stock is not a sure way to avoid TD1.

[jran76]

I think it comes down to if you tune your car, you need to be prepared that Audi may be able to detect it. It's a constantly evolving process, and what's true today may not be tomorrow. This applies to any tune, flashed or piggyback. Even outside of the TD1 auto-scan, if Audi/AOA really wants to figure out if you have been tuned, they likely can. With any type of tuning, there are parameters that are changed well outside their normal operating range, and there is enough of a digital trail to find those if they are willing to look hard enough.

[jmaddr]

I think this sort of stuff bodes well for piggybacks, at least during the warranty period -or- if you just want bang-for-buck. I had a CW on and been in for three services and while I can't be sure they hooked it up and took a look, I'm comfortable that the risk is less. I'm also comfortable if a powertrain issue occurs while the CW is on, it's my fault and I should pay..I just want to avoid Audi using TD1 as an excuse to avoid anything even remotely powertrain related.

[jran76]

I think this sort of stuff bodes well for piggybacks, at least during the warranty period -or- if you just want bang-for-buck. I had a CW on and been in for three services and while I can't be sure they hooked it up and took a look, I'm comfortable that the risk is less. I'm also comfortable if a powertrain issue occurs while the CW is on, it's my fault and I should pay..I just want to avoid Audi using TD1 as an excuse to avoid anything even remotely powertrain related.

That's probably a good way to look at it. No doubt Audi/AOA are dickheads when it comes to TD1. Avoiding TD1 (whether it is by successfully flashing back to stock or using a piggyback) will make your life a lot easier for almost any warranty issue that comes up that they should cover regardless of engine tuning. I think the only way Audi/AOA would do any additional digging is if there was some type of major engine related failure. And, if that is the case, it is probably on you and/or your tuner to figure out.

[Works2shoot]

I think this sort of stuff bodes well for piggybacks, at least during the warranty period -or- if you just want bang-for-buck. I had a CW on and been in for three services and while I can't be sure they hooked it up and took a look, I'm comfortable that the risk is less. I'm also comfortable if a powertrain issue occurs while the CW is on, it's my fault and I should pay..I just want to avoid Audi using TD1 as an excuse to avoid anything even remotely powertrain related.

Does "CW" mean Chipwerke? Thanks!

[14S4GWM]

Does "CW" mean Chipwerke? Thanks!

Yes

[RReddington]

Had a noise coming from the diff, Audi replaced the whole tranny. (Manual, b8.5 s4)

[S4Drew]

Not trying to scare you, but the center diff is fully integrated into and part of the whole transmission. It's the red part on the far right. So, they probably have to take out the entire transmission and open it up. Just guessing here, but I don't think this is gonna be cheap if Audi doesn't cover it.

This is a fantastic picture! Do you have a link where I can find more of these?

[CapnToll]

Well they said not to worry about it and sent me on my way. They'll let me know what Audi says about covering it but they didn't seem concerned about letting me drive out, said I could drive it as I normally would.


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[CapnToll]

I'd rather tune during warranty because at least under warranty there's a slight chance (small, yes) that an issue could be covered. If you wait until after warranty you know you have to pay for it and the cost to repair wouldn't be any cheaper because the car is older. The repair cost though would be a higher percentage of the vehicle's value so I'd rather at least have the chance of an issue being covered. I'm an engineer though, we have odd ways of rationalizing things :p


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[superswiss]

Had a noise coming from the diff, Audi replaced the whole tranny. (Manual, b8.5 s4)

Yeah, that's essentially what I was getting at with my post. Audi can and does replace bolt-on parts to the transmission such as oil pan, filter etc., but they don't rebuild the transmission if the issue is with the internals. Depending on what exactly is leaking in OP's case, he is looking at a new transmission.

This is a fantastic picture! Do you have a link where I can find more of these?

https://www.google.com/. Not joking, I just googled it.

[14S4GWM]

This is a fantastic picture! Do you have a link where I can find more of these?

Heres plenty of great pics for ya

http://www.vaglinks.com/vaglinks_com...Technology.pdf

Edit

Why is this in the S4 threads?

[CapnToll]

Got the details - says "tech noted center diff seal is leaking oil". Hoping it's just a gasket or hard seal of some sort accessible without too much disassembly.


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[joew322]

To totally avoid TD1 for a tuned car, invest in a second stock ECU and swap back and forth. Expensive if you want to avoid TD1 but still have a tuned car. :_)

[pdqgp]

To totally avoid TD1 for a tuned car, invest in a second stock ECU and swap back and forth. Expensive if you want to avoid TD1 but still have a tuned car. :_)

Anyone here done this? Makes sense but almost sounds too easy.

[B18b1ex]

Anyone here done this? Makes sense but almost sounds too easy.

I think it not that easy, I think only the dealer can code ECU's to keys and to the Cluster. At least that's what I was told.

[IbisB8.5S4]

yeah it's not that easy... your ECU is coded to your VIN, put in a different ECU and your car will go crazy, dealer will know, and you still most DEFINITELY be TD1'ed

[SportVier]

Install new transmission, not covered by warranty: $11,321
Make an already stupid fast car slightly faster: Priceless

Seriously, I hope they cover it for you.

[pdqgp]

I think it not that easy, I think only the dealer can code ECU's to keys and to the Cluster. At least that's what I was told.

yeah it's not that easy... your ECU is coded to your VIN, put in a different ECU and your car will go crazy, dealer will know, and you still most DEFINITELY be TD1'ed

^^ I didn't think so thus the mild hint of sarcasm when I asked. I did this on a 1999 SC GTP I had modded back in the day but then it was also pretty much the only way to tune them back then

The way I look at it, it the risks are a roll of the dice. I'm okay with it as I saved $15-20k by not buying an S6 yet I have similar to better power and performance.

[CapnToll]

Looks like the center diff seal is just a $21 O-ring (ECS price). Here's hoping it's just a worn O-ring and it's right at a flange split-line for quickest access.

[doug97gxe]

To totally avoid TD1 for a tuned car, invest in a second stock ECU and swap back and forth. Expensive if you want to avoid TD1 but still have a tuned car. :_)

only in dream land

- - - Updated - - -

I think it depends on the tune. APR says when they go back to stock, they adjust the flash counter to go back to its previous number. I'm not sure that GIAC or the others have that capability.

If they flash it back to stock, that will show an additional flash on the ECU. So if you go in for service and it shows 0 flashes. Then you get a tune, the ECU now will show 1. If you get it flashed back to stock, the ECU now shows 2. Audi would know its been flashed twice since the service that showed 0.

So the tune you have, needs to have the capability to adjust the ECU's counter.

Simply flashing back to stock is not a sure way to avoid TD1.

so far *knock on wood* i went for service and wasn't TD1 .. i don't have APR either

[bhvrdr]

The way I look at it, it the risks are a roll of the dice. I'm okay with it as I saved $15-20k by not buying an S6 yet I have similar to better power and performance.

Hehe, I like this way of looking at it. As more of our cars have big parts that show up on car-part.com you realize there arent that many repairs now that are too hard to swallow. Heck, I'm starting to think about picking up a 2012 model S4 for 25 grand and using it as a fun/mod car and then getting an A8 4.0T to be nice to :)

Mike

[agent47]

I had the entire tune uninstalled before my first service (was switching from GIAC to APR) and they still flagged the car when there was no tune on it. I assume the ECU memory shows that the software was opened up.

That's Crazy!! Are you sure that the "uninstaller" just didn't put it in stock mode since it was being reflashed anyway?

I had the same issue. Car was flashed to stock before going to the dealer. But it got flagged regardless.

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[bhvrdr]

I had the same issue. Car was flashed to stock before going to the dealer. But it got flagged regardless.

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Most people are not getting flagged so something unique probably happened. I wonder if the incorrect "revision" of the OEM code got flashed back to stock. There are several versions of the stock file for each ECU box code and not all tuners make sure the exact same version was flashed back. It would not pass a spec v actual if it was not the same version. I know APR now has an automated flash process to make sure the correct stock version of file gets flashed. That was not always the case. I dont know about other tuners.

There are no "hidden logs" in the spec v actual process or else everyone would be TD1. If AofA wanted to get really sophisticated they could indeed "even record" such events as number of times the car went past the rev limiter, number of times the car exceeded OEM max torque/load values, etc, etc. These wouldnt be wiped doing a standard flash back to stock. Luckily, AofA does not appear to be doing this or else everyone who ever had a tune would be TD1.

Mike

[AKPS4]

Sounds like being flagged varies by dealership. I did both - completely remove tune and only switch to stock file and didn't get flagged from either.

[agent47]

Most people are not getting flagged so something unique probably happened. I wonder if the incorrect "revision" of the OEM code got flashed back to stock. There are several versions of the stock file for each ECU box code and not all tuners make sure the exact same version was flashed back. It would not pass a spec v actual if it was not the same version. I know APR now has an automated flash process to make sure the correct stock version of file gets flashed. That was not always the case. I dont know about other tuners.

Mike

It was a fucked up situation. I had APR dig in and they found the burn logs perfect. All files were flashed exactly the same as they were before the flash (since my car was not connected to the dealership computers for the 25k and 35k service. I got a tune at 22k mi). And the flag disappeared the same day by evening. I or my dealer couldn't find the flag again after running the VIN multiple times.

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[14S4GWM]

Sounds like being flagged varies by dealership. I did both - completely remove tune and only switch to stock file and didn't get flagged from either.

Then you probably didnt get hooked up to the computer? It most likely would auto flag you with that file.

[bhvrdr]

Sounds like being flagged varies by dealership. I did both - completely remove tune and only switch to stock file and didn't get flagged from either.

You werent hooked up to the network then...they didnt do a GFF on your car.


They can also manually flag you and then just blame it on AofA if they wanted to be real jerks. You'd likely never know it was them who entered the flag unless they wanted to tell you.

Mike

[The Fat Kid]

Someone posted a letter from AoA (I know you are in Canada) stating that warranty work would be covered on a TD1 car if the owner were to flash back to stock. It seemed crazy, I know, but it could be somehow tied to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. I have also read that you can get the TD1 removed for things like intakes and exhausts by throwing the OEM parts back on and bringing it back to the dealer.

Audi is clearly doing its best to TD1 cars for anything as a way to reject warranty claims.

[doug97gxe]

You werent hooked up to the network then...they didnt do a GFF on your car.


They can also manually flag you and then just blame it on AofA if they wanted to be real jerks. You'd likely never know it was them who entered the flag unless they wanted to tell you.

Mike

I was hooked up to the network and my paperwork shows that.. i still didn't get flagged