Comparing gains and costs for stages of tuning for the S6

[S4Per]

Hi All,

I've been digging into this a bit, and seeing another Stg 3 thread this morning, thought I'd post this up as I found it interesting. The below compares stock vs APR Stg1 vs APR Stg3, all based on the 91 wheel numbers advertised by APR (thankfully their pics on their site keep the same axis scales, hence it was easy to Photoshop this onto one graph). I picked 91 wheel since it's closest to the 92 octane here in the PNW, and I've never liked the back calcs to crank personally. Also, the costs compare moving from one stage to the next, not stock to Stage 3; I did this as I think it's the most natural progression for most, and definitely is for me. I know there are some that go straight to Stg3, so you'd need a different calc there.

Net/net: kind of a hard sell to do Stage 3 on these cars based off of what the numbers say (i.e. not a lot of ROI to go from Stage 1 to Stage 3 at this point).





Cheers,
Per

[sciblades]

Typically in modding you are paying for being a pioneer the main question should be

what power gain do you want.
How much are you happy with
What time do you need to run?

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[gk1]

It is unfortunate for 91 folks.
93 octane gets you that extra 40 WHP and almost 60 WTQ that might make it more worthwhile for some not restricted by 91 only.
Agreed still not much closer $/HP but hardware is usually costly, if you could only offset by selling stock turbos, but unfortunately zero market for them. Still tons cheaper than an RS7 and it is nice to have options for those of us who don't care for the 7's look.

[MadAboutCars]

The RocEuro air filters give a WHP gain of 30 and WTQ of 31 for USD$500.

[S4Per]

I just thought it's a bit sobering seeing so little gains from a stage 3 setup :/ In my past experiences, Stage 3 has meant a lot more power compared to prior stages....I think I'm suffering from the B5 hangover when talking turbos ;), and with the RS4 SC, that was a whole other story and doesn't really compare (since NA tune only gets you almost nothing).

In all likelihood, though, someone will come along and find a way to get bigger gains...it's just a matter of time. It'll be interesting to see what the DSG truly can handle. In the B5 days, no one believed the Tip could handle Stage 3 for any amount of time, but mine lasted for as long as I knew the car (~60k miles on Stg3). That said - getting close to hitting 10's on this car via Stage 3 is a pretty nice accomplishment.

Anyway - wasn't meant to be a buzzkill, just kinda' hit me as I was contemplating what's next for mine ;) Looking forward to seeing what the Stage 2 APR tune will do!

[VVG]

I just thought it's a bit sobering seeing so little gains from a stage 3 setup :/ In my past experiences, Stage 3 has meant a lot more power compared to prior stages....I think I'm suffering from the B5 hangover when talking turbos ;), and with the RS4 SC, that was a whole other story and doesn't really compare (since NA tune only gets you almost nothing).

In all likelihood, though, someone will come along and find a way to get bigger gains...it's just a matter of time. It'll be interesting to see what the DSG truly can handle. In the B5 days, no one believed the Tip could handle Stage 3 for any amount of time, but mine lasted for as long as I knew the car (~60k miles on Stg3). That said - getting close to hitting 10's on this car via Stage 3 is a pretty nice accomplishment.

Anyway - wasn't meant to be a buzzkill, just kinda' hit me as I was contemplating what's next for mine ;) Looking forward to seeing what the Stage 2 APR tune will do!

A couple of points.....

1. You always get diminishing returns when you go for bigger and bigger power. Don't forget that you will need cooling upgrades, new plugs, etc for a reliable Stage 3, and then the labor costs for the install, compared to the $50 of so for the time to do a flash. As such, $7300 will turn into about $12,000 done right.

2. We are still WAY early in the tuning game for upgraded turbos on these cars. When I had my B5 S4, I had the second stage 3 kit that APR commercially sold for the car in the country. That was in the summer of 2002, and my car was displayed at Waterfest that year with their kit installed. It dyno'd at about 340whp. If you know B5 S4 tuning, you know that there was still a lot left on the table. But....you will need cooling, better clutch packs, etc. Audi turbo motors, however, have historically been pretty bullet proof to even high levels of boost/tuning. The best is yet to come.

[S4Per]

Yup, with you on those point...and with AMD in my neighborhood, I'm well acquainted with what's possible on the B5 platform....just wishing we could fast forward a few years with this platform! ;)

[wwhan]

There is good reason to run lower static compression with the larger turbos at higher boost (does not push the octane requirement as high).

[MadAboutCars]

Your data are wrong. Only the S8 has the lower compression ratio. The RS7 has the same 10.1:1 CR as the S6/7.

And you have something to back this up? My understanding is the pistons are different in the S8 and RS6/7 engines, and this accounts for the lower compression ratio.

[spidey9999]

And you have something to back this up? My understanding is the pistons are different in the S8 and RS6/7 engines, and this accounts for the lower compression ratio.

Good old Vol. He probably got his info from the lead customs official who confirmed the matrix LED headlights on his North American spec RS7. Or maybe the manufacturing plant supervisor told him during their video conference.