Service shop trying to get me to pay for their mistake

[bstaneland]

Brought my 04 A4 3.0 quattro in to get safetied and e-tested. The inner boot on pass side CV axle was freshly torn, so it failed the safety test - no problem, told them to replace the CV axle so I could get my all-important safety passed sticker.
Well the mechanic broke the head off the long top bolt that connects the top of the spindle to the upper control arm. They've been trying to drill out the broken bolt since yesterday and have now told me they need to just replace the spindle... And they expect me to pay for the spindle, which I have already told them I am not paying to replace something their mechanic broke.
I normally service my own vehicles, so I am not used to dealing with shops. A couple questions...
1. Has anyone else had the same bolt breaking problem with this top bolt?
2. What was the fix if you've had the same problem?
3. Who should be responsible for the cost to get this new problem fixed, me or the shop?

[Kevin C]

I would say, that the best case you have is that the mechanic could have been more carefull. That said, your pinch bolt was seized and that's not his fault. Still sucks though. And yes, the pinch bolt is know to seize, especially if the car has ever seen road salt.

[SJorge3442]

Yeah, you're probably gonna have to pay. Other parts break sometimes and if a shop covered all them, theyd never make money

The following statement will make you mad: Nothing related to the controls needs to be touched to remove the axle.....just the lower shock bolt, the axle bolt and the transmission mount bolts.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[AudiA4_20T]

Yes this is incredibly common. You don't need a new spindle, but now you may have to pay for the hours it'll take him to get it out.

[bstaneland]

So even though there is a special tool for removing the pinchbolt, which the shop did not use, I should be responsible? Wow, tough crowd (or maybe the only responses so far are from service techs).

[bstaneland]

Nothing related to the controls needs to be touched to remove the axle.....just the lower shock bolt, the axle bolt and the transmission mount bolts.

So if I understand correctly, the tech should not have even tried to remove that pinchbolt? If that is correct, then I don't see how I am to be held responsible for the tech trying to remove something he should not have even touched.

[SJorge3442]

So if I understand correctly, the tech should not have even tried to remove that pinchbolt? If that is correct, then I don't see how I am to be held responsible for the tech trying to remove something he should not have even touched.

"the book" might say to remove the upper control arms, but there is plenty or room to remove the axle by turning the steering all the way to the opposite side and then compressing the CV joints. I've done it this way multiple times. I have a 6speed 3.0 if that helps you any.

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[tHatOne guY]

Guess that shop never worked on an Audi before. That should have been covered in the write up of the work order, the possibility of that bolt giving up the ghost and what's needed to remove it if it did. It should have at least been addressed when you told them to go ahead with the repair.

On the other hand maybe they had an inexperienced technician working on it, not making excuses but it's a possibility.

Bottom line I think they should have taken care of it.

[bstaneland]

Guess that shop never worked on an Audi before. That should have been covered in the write up of the work order, the possibility of that bolt giving up the ghost and what's needed to remove it if it did. It should have at least been addressed when you told them to go ahead with the repair.

On the other hand maybe they had an inexperienced technician working on it, not making excuses but it's a possibility.

Bottom line I think they should have taken care of it.

Ok, glad to see I'm not the only one that feels this way. The tech was some sort of senior tech and even explained (after the fact) that they knew about these types of bolts, he just took what he believed was the quick way and put air impact to the bolt head after removing the nut.
There was nothing discussed about the possibility of not being able to remove the bolt. The only discussion up-front was me telling the service advisor that there was a special tool that I would otherwise buy to do it myself, but because that tool was not available to purchase right away that I would bite the bullet and pay them to get it done.
Pretty much I will be going in "armed" with all the above when the service manager calls me tomorrow.

[tHatOne guY]

Well there are more ways to pull that bolt even after the heads sheared off. I have found 2 or 3 ways just looking around on this forum and the net. I understand the shop's position that they are in business to make money, sure. That being said focusing on being efficient should be more of a priority than doing things the quick way.

I have looked into buying that special tool myself a couple times and it is hella expensive, not to mention you do not need it to remove even the worst of pinch bolts. Sure that tool will make things easier but for a few uses a year I personally wouldn't invest in it unless I had enough people lined up to rent it to make my money back.

Either way. Good luck.

[SJorge3442]

Interesting. I skipped all that, changing mine out on the side of the road via widowmaker.

Haha, I mean the axle transmission bolts. And that is a scary repair to make on the side of the road.

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[Seerlah]

All he had to do was take out wheel axle hub bolt, undo the inner cv flange to tranny bolts, and dropped the axle. If he needed more room, all he had to do was cut the wheel fully to the opposite side he was working on.

[crazyquik22023]

I think the shop should be responsible. Even though that is the "easiest" way to remove the axle, if the tech noticed the pinch bolt was seized in place he should not have kept hitting it with an impact gun. He obviously knew it was seized since after removing the nut the bolt wasn't able to be tapped out. As said above all the control arms can stay connected and the axle can be removed by just turning the wheel far enough. Also another method the tech could have used was removing the 2 lower control arms from the spindle. There is no pinch bolt that could get seized there and would have been a much better option. The way i see it the tech was trying to just get it done the quickest way possible and he broke the bolt because of not thinking it through. The shop should be at fault.

[vtailalaska]

you think this is bad? I have a AUDI shop in Palmer Alaska trying to charge me $486.00 to tell me the TB broke on our Allroad.

[imnuts]

I think that the shop should take some responsibility for the issue you're have, but I don't see why they should cover all of it. You'd likely make out better if you try to split the cost with the shop rather than demand they cover it all. I'd say they should be responsible for the labor time since the tech had so many problems, but you should cover the parts.

Sent from my DROID Turbo 2

[walky_talky20]

I agree. Should not have touched the pinch bolt. Not even to "try it". This is why I don't let other people touch my car. Ever.

If it were mine, I would be comfortable to split the actual cost of the replacement spindle (no mark-up, and a price that I would approve beforehand), and they cover all labor related to making it right. And hopefully they learn to either not shortcut things, or buy the tool if they really want to go in "guns hot" on the pinch bolt for every CV boot repair that rolls in.

[05A$SE]

I had the same exact thing happen to me when i went to replace my UCA's. Except i broke them in my garage, myself. and tried myself for days to get them out and was unsuccessful, they were seized.
The solution was to replace the knuckle and Hub assembly, Luckily the bearing was on its way out anyway so it made the whole situation better / easier.


I could understand if they made you pay for a bolt, But them destroying the control arm / spindle from they're brute force rather then having a machinist or someone with proper tooling remove the broken bolt is silly in my opinion.



Best of luck

[bstaneland]

This is why I don't let other people touch my car. Ever.

I hear you, brother. I normally never let anyone touch my vehicles (except timing belt job on my sequoia by the dealer). But this was supposed to be just a quick inspection that suddenly needed what should have been an equally quick axle replacement. Regret of the year!

I'm so pissed off with these completely useless effing goofballs.

After fighting with these dipshits on the phone I agreed to pay for the parts and they would cover all the labor. I told them to replace the spindle they effed up with a used spindle. 3 days later I get a call telling me they've busted the rubber boots on the UCAs (keep in mind EVERYTHING on my car was completely mint prior to arriving to this hellhole of assholes) and they would replace them for parts and labor... I told them I will do it. Then today they tell me the abs sensor plug on the replacement spindle is different from the one on my car, so they can't connect the abs sensor. So I am wondering if these fucktards installed a steel spindle (from a different series) instead of the aluminum one.
Going to be there at 8am to inspect it.
I swear to effing christ I wish I was my younger punk self right now because I want to beat the tech and the service manager to the ground tomorrow. I got so pissed just recounting this story just now.
Breathe deep... Don't do anything stupid. Ha!

[DownhillA4]

Welcome to dealing with the most incompetent people in the world. DIY or bust. Sorry you have to deal with this!

[AudiA4_20T]

All he had to do was take out wheel axle hub bolt, undo the inner cv flange to tranny bolts, and dropped the axle. If he needed more room, all he had to do was cut the wheel fully to the opposite side he was working on.

This is not true. On Automatics it doesn't just come out like it does on manuals.

So even though there is a special tool for removing the pinchbolt, which the shop did not use, I should be responsible? Wow, tough crowd (or maybe the only responses so far are from service techs).

FYI I bet most Audi dealers don't even use that tool, it's WAY expensive.

Welcome to dealing with the most incompetent people in the world. DIY or bust. Sorry you have to deal with this!

Brutal! To be fair, you're paying someone else to do something just like you'd pay a plumber to fix your pipes or an electrician to fix your wiring. This is just a crappy situation where a shop came across a common problem with these cars, it's not their fault this issue exists. If they had worked on a ton of B6s maybe they'd have worked without it, but if they work on lots of cars they may have never come across it.

[tHatOne guY]

I hear you, brother. I normally never let anyone touch my vehicles (except timing belt job on my sequoia by the dealer). But this was supposed to be just a quick inspection that suddenly needed what should have been an equally quick axle replacement. Regret of the year!

I'm so pissed off with these completely useless effing goofballs.

After fighting with these dipshits on the phone I agreed to pay for the parts and they would cover all the labor. I told them to replace the spindle they effed up with a used spindle. 3 days later I get a call telling me they've busted the rubber boots on the UCAs (keep in mind EVERYTHING on my car was completely mint prior to arriving to this hellhole of assholes) and they would replace them for parts and labor... I told them I will do it. Then today they tell me the abs sensor plug on the replacement spindle is different from the one on my car, so they can't connect the abs sensor. So I am wondering if these fucktards installed a steel spindle (from a different series) instead of the aluminum one.
Going to be there at 8am to inspect it.
I swear to effing christ I wish I was my younger punk self right now because I want to beat the tech and the service manager to the ground tomorrow. I got so pissed just recounting this story just now.
Breathe deep... Don't do anything stupid. Ha!

That's rough. Senior tech huh, must be a Ford tech or something.

[Denio24]

Removing the rest of the pinch bolt will be on their shop time, so I can understand why they want to charge you for it.

The bolt breaking is very common, but a good shop will take the time to try to some methods before using brute force on trying to get it out. Another alternative is to remove the strut mount to remove the axle. Removing the top strut mounts will allow you to bend the hub assembly out of the way giving clearance to remove the axle, which is my preferred procedure for getting the knuckle out of the way when doing a steering rack replacement. IMO this shop is inexperienced with Audi suspensions.

A possible fix is to take the bolt out from the other end with a bunch of washers or hex couplers and a nut on the end. It will reach a point where it will contact the hub assembly, so you will have to bend the bolt. Once it is bent, proceed adding more washers and twisting the nut at the end. Trying to air hammer it out, or punch it out with a hammer is not really possible if it is very seized. Drilling is also risky as you may drill through knuckle itself.

I would bring up the procedures as I & others described above and ask them why they didn't go that way as opposed to breaking the bolt. If they can't come up with a viable solution, I would try to negotiate a deal to finish the job, or get you car out of there! I obviously wouldn't pay for parts that they damaged or rendered useless by their poor choices.

Remember, there's always small claims court and you're almost guaranteed to win if you provide proof of the damage!

[bstaneland]

Thanks for all the comments, especially the sympathetic ones.
It's been such a long time and so many vehicles ago that I last allowed an independent shop to service a vehicle I own that I just slipped. I didn't want to have to return a second time to finalize the safety inspection after doing the work myself. How wrong I was with that decision... Now have to replace both UCAs & the ABS sensor and hopefully I don't have to replace anything else... way more expensive and way more time wasted now. I hope I remember this for a very long time.

I think their techs are just used to working on the average cars of average owners that they were literally over their head with something German.

[Denio24]

Good luck and I hope your outcome is well.

[chad99]

This is not true. On Automatics it doesn't just come out like it does on manuals.

I don't know if its any easier with a manual, but I was able to replace both my front axles on my 1.8T auto quattro avant without having to remove anything but the wheel, axle bolt and the 6 inner axle bolts to the trans.

If I remember correctly the driver side was really easy but the passenger side I had to crank the steering wheel to full lock and use a jack to push up on the bottom of the spindle.

EDIT: and the axles I removed were OEM, I replaced them with the duralast autozone stuff

[crazyquik22023]

I don't know if its any easier with a manual, but I was able to replace both my front axles on my 1.8T auto quattro avant without having to remove anything but the wheel, axle bolt and the 6 inner axle bolts to the trans.

If I remember correctly the driver side was really easy but the passenger side I had to crank the steering wheel to full lock and use a jack to push up on the bottom of the spindle.

EDIT: and the axles I removed were OEM, I replaced them with the duralast autozone stuff

Same situation for manual or auto, but you did it the right way with the passenger side. And I don't have OEM on my b5 anymore either, but the quality of the OEM axles compared to autozone, etc. is incomparable. OEM is 100% better. But as alot of people have said also I have had good luck with the aftermarket axles.

[MNAudi101]

This is not true. On Automatics it doesn't just come out like it does on manuals.

it so does work the same way, I have done it many times with my car which has a Tip