Entry Level T3 turbos

[jpulll]

With tax returns coming up I've been looking at turbos and I noticed the precision entry level turbo; Part Number: PTB002-4831


Im looking for a non garrett T3 turbo that'll be used on a stock block. I will most likely go through dave at motoza for tuning. Looking for a nice daily driver turbo. no elims or f21's- i want the t3 mani. not looking for 350whp more like 280-300 whp which it seems that 4831b turbo will be able to produce, since its rated at 385hp.

I saw Seerlah mentioned something about it back in 2012 but he said his mechanic ended up swaying him away towards the garrett. (entry level turbo thread)

Basically just wanted to hear others opinions. Ive already done my searching now (never enough searching though :P) i just need the group discussion and i thought that this would be something to tinker about.

[Matt Devo]

if your goal is only 300whp, why are you set on using a T3 flanged manifold/turbo? You're just adding a lot of cost/complexity when there's no need to.

[jpulll]

I guess the best answer for that is because I have plans of keeping this car for a very long time and see myself building the engine to handle a bigger turbo. I wanna be different (hence the entry level turbos) and I wouldn't mind having to think a little :P it'll keep me from being bored.

it's all about having fun right? and I can't see myself having fun with the elims or frankens, yeah they may be just under my power range with the 71r being more closer but I just feel id have more fun putting together what I have in mind now.

[Seerlah]

Stay T25 for the stock block if wanting a full body/frame turbo. You want to keep the smaller port for velocity which equates to quicker spool. Lower A/R housings have quicker spool also, but lose breathe up top. If running a 100% stock block, won't be a concern as you dont want to go beyond 7k anyways. Stock cams are limiting up top anyways.

There are a lot of turbo options out there today. Comp Turbo even has entry level turbos. I now run a Comp Turbo 5152 Triplex. Plan on ditching this turbo in the future for an efr. But it is def a fun turbo.

[Matt Devo]

I guess the best answer for that is because I have plans of keeping this car for a very long time and see myself building the engine to handle a bigger turbo. I wanna be different (hence the entry level turbos) and I wouldn't mind having to think a little :P it'll keep me from being bored.

it's all about having fun right? and I can't see myself having fun with the elims or frankens, yeah they may be just under my power range with the 71r being more closer but I just feel id have more fun putting together what I have in mind now.

the GTRS/GT2871R elims are both capable of 300+ WHP on a stock block with the right supporting hardware. Doing things just for the sake of being different might keep you from getting bored, but it also means that the result might not be what you'd expect. Also, 300whp as a goal isn't really indicative of what your driveability goals are. You can get there with a 71R or a 35R, but your powerband is going to look drastically different.

[jpulll]

Matt, I know you are going to do everything you can to try and sway me away from a full frame and to have me stick with an elim. Why? because like you and many others you have been there. I appreciate your insight but I'm trying to find other options then just the elims. This is why i was hoping, those who are familiar with the comp and pte turbos, you will be able to help me and others who have the same mindset of 'i want full frame on stock block....with intentions to build block later'

It's a daily driver. Full boost from 3.5k to redline would be ideal. 3k to redline would be even better, which is why i feel seerlah had something going with t25 and 48a/r (which i found only pte has that setup and its way more expensive, the 4842) Now i don't know what that would mean for the torque spike because from my understanding that is what bends rods. I also dont know what that would mean for power loss compared to a larger a/r or larger frame size. This is why i felt people went t3 63a/r because of the torque spike and they could keep the spike under control better. Im partly wondering how a t3 48a/r (smallest entry turbo for comp/pte) would do, maybe that would be in my range a little more?

[Seerlah]

.64 a/r for t25

[Matt Devo]

Matt, I know you are going to do everything you can to try and sway me away from a full frame and to have me stick with an elim. Why? because like you and many others you have been there. I appreciate your insight but I'm trying to find other options then just the elims. This is why i was hoping, those who are familiar with the comp and pte turbos, you will be able to help me and others who have the same mindset of 'i want full frame on stock block....with intentions to build block later'

It's not a matter of trying to sway you one way or the other, it's trying to understand/reconcile your stated goals with the path you've chosen to get there. "full boost" 3.5k to redline on a stock block to me says a T25 .64 AR EFR 6258; others may have different suggestions :)

[Seerlah]

^I agree

OP, I'm all for taking your own route. That is how I mod. But having goals and actually doing it are two different things. Goals for this car can cost a lot of money and time. If not knowing how to go about things, 275-300whp can cost a pretty penny said and done. I advise you resesrch more before comitting on what you want to do (ie I run a plug and play t3 setup. just as how the eliminator utilises the stock cat converter flange, mine utilises the stock downpipe flange.). Meantime, save money on the side for your car build.

Most versatile flange is the v band. But companies try and corner the market so you can only use their flange. So, research this too if you decide to go this route. Or buy my manifold and downpipe in a few months. Going tubular and is waiting at my friend's housse, who made it, to be installed.

/shameless plug

[Audi body]

Your wanting a full frame turbo on a stock block. Listen to Matt. It's best to upgrade the block if you want the real power from a bigger turbo. If not stay with the elim

[05A$SE]

haha, Im all for doing your own stuff your own way.

But if you want longevity, quick spool / Fun street car and a decent highway runner. GO ELIMINATOR OR T25 -

1.8L engine won't see any benefit to a t3 unless your spinning high RPM and this is not where your "fun street cars" will fall into play if you want useable power. you will most likely perform lesser compared to a t25 or eliminator. No ones going to give a shit what manifold flange you have........ so why should you.... If that one thing is the focus of your little turbo bolt on, your completely miseducated and mislead on how the whole turbo deal works.


If your "Upgrading more later" - Then the small savings getting the T3 manifold now won't play out.... You'll want a divided one later, or a different brand will come out with something. etc......Its all great in theory. but I'm sorry to say. Those of us that have been there and moved on can say, The eliminator setups are extremely reliable, fun, affordable, easily fixed. etc....

And to say something like NON Garret, Come on.... They've been around forever and have one of the most reliable designs and support from other companies working with there parts to make systems and upgrades......all turbos do the same thing, Picking the right one is a math equation, not an "i guess this is right because of its rated HP output."


Im more then happy to share PM's on how this stuff works, Don't take my words with offense.
Just hate how people think this is all magic or a guessing game because of what they read on forums, its just math my friend.

[jpulll]

I don't think I'm miseducated to say the least. just looking for more information. and I wasn't looking for THE turbo. I was trying to find out more information regarding the entry level turbos and people took it as you're stupid you should do this. yeah I wanted to give you a little information about what I wanted in regards to power and some other little things. but whatever, thanks for all the info tho. y'all have a good one.

[Seerlah]

People aren't trying to be rude. They and I are really trying to help you. For those who have been through it, it can be a tricky game. For your power goals, people are basically suggesting what is tried and proven over and over again. 3.5Krpm full spool is what you want, and the eliminator can get you that. 275whp? Eliminator can get you that too. But when it comes down to it, your main focus should be reliability. And the eliminator handles that dept rather well. And when or if you do decide to build your motor and step to a bigger turbo, simply sell it and then upgrade. And if you don't, then you have a tried and proven 300whp reliable setup that spools at roughly 3.5K rpm...exactly what you are looking for.

If you go the eliminator route, you will do a bunch of upgraded supporting mods. So when you want to go bigger, they should be already finished. And as mentioned above, things change all the time. Better turbochargers, faster spooling ones, better designed manifolds, etc. It's a technology that keeps on growing. And I'm sure you know journal bearing turbochargers spool slower than ball bearing. So if you decide on a T3 entry level journal bearing turbo, it's not to say that it would perform better than the eliminator. Because it won't. T25 for stock block is the way to go. This is one reason the eliminator shines on the stock block. Stock port is small, but it keeps up velocity. T3 is more for the person chasing more power through a wider powerband. And V band is just the most versatile flange (can be used on a lot of apps).

With that being said, I'm still all for people going their own route. I suggest a T25 Treadstone manifold with an EFR T25 .64 A/R IWG 6258 and get a competent tune that won't blow your engine. Only thing that I can see having faster spool with both matching and higher power goals than the eliminator as far as these types of setups go (single turbo). Pricey turbo, but it's what I believe to be the ultimate stock block setup (pretty sure a person in my section runs this setup, but doesn't post. but he also placed in forged rods to be safe). But if you want to simply tinker and play with your car, I'm all for this too . Go for it. But I still suggest T25 for the stock block.

[05A$SE]

More information on selecting turbos -


Your engine is an air pump, It moves a certain volume of air at a given rate (Displacement and RPM). Things such as ambient pressure, Temperature, etc. effect the mass of your volume also. Obviously as RPM increases, Your amount of air increases in rate, This is why Turbo charts are in LBS/MIN - Its the mass of Air moved in 1 minute.

Another thing to consider is the MAX BOOST LEVEL (Seen as pressure ratio on compressor map) - that your mechanical air pump (Engine) Can handle - This is figured out VIA taking stock compression values and calculating how much compression your making under boost, etc. There is a maximum range for all engines, Most people who have done this a while will know what works and doesn't, In your case with the stock engine and shooting somewhere in the smaller (Entry) Level turbos range, 20PSI will be plenty fun and reliable - I ran a full supported gt2871R (ELIM) at 20-22PSI for 45k - The car was awesome.

If you want boost / Initial Spool at 3000 RPM - you input 3000 RPM into the calculation, Find out your Lbs/Min of flow and relate to compressor maps. If you want it to pull to redline, Input your max RPM and work off the two, you will then be able to even determine where the turbo will provide a power band by reversing this calculation with the information on the compressor map - And then my friend, You have the right turbo for what you want

Entry level just means small turbos - All of which you will be looking at will be entry level.
If by entry your thinking price, Then just realize the cheapo stuff makes you spend more later when it comes to an important key part such as the turbo, You'll either Buy twice or make your car work harder for the same result as just buying something reputable. (I am in no way knocking on precision - The turbo you linked - or any one other brand or specific unit with that statement )

So once you have your Lbs/Min of air at a given RPM, your able to see if the turbo is able to perform your goal and work right with your setup.





More information on Manifolds and Flange sizing -
Again were referencing Air flow out of an air pump - Obviously a larger size tube / pipe / port can flow more volume of air, but it loses velocity. With such small cylinders like we have you need to consider this - To keep it simple, For what your looking for, the smaller flange sized manifolds will be more efficient and provide a better driving experience.
Also, the cast manifold is your best bet for reliable longevity and good useable power. Yes tubular is cool and works but its weaker and geared towards higher RPM use.


Basically just gotta Shop around for what works with your goal - All math
In reality you can spend whatever you want on the most expensive parts but it does in no way mean your going to be doing yourself or the car any type of favor unless you have fully built the car with ALL parts in consideration. They all have to work together.



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