100k miles Brand new motor

[schirm]

Some of you already know my crazy 3 month experience without my car at an Audi dealership in NJ.

For those who want to know my story follow .http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...ht-running-bad

So here is my question. I have a 12/12 warranty on the new motor, they left on the APR stage 2 pulley. I put about 1,500 miles on it so far and everything is great, the car felt fast stock, but now I miss my tune again. How long would you guys wait to re flash the car?

[MrFunk]

I'd wait 5k miles to properly break it in. That's how long I waited after buying my car...

[schirm]

I'd wait 5k miles to properly break it in. That's how long I waited after buying my car...

Thats impressive 5K on a brand new car and tuned it ha. I thought breaking in was to about 1,000 miles or so.

[blackfunk]

5k is really to be safe. In that many miles you'll have given everything enough time to seat and start working together etc.

[dizzlesizzle]

I would break it in with the tune, i heard hard break in is actually better...just my opinion.

[cW6mT mKviGLi]

My car has been stage 2+ since it's delivery date to the original owner.

[schirm]

I would break it in with the tune, i heard hard break in is actually better...just my opinion.

It's getting a hard break in

[GRUMPY-S4]

I was tuned between 1000-2000 miles I think

[Thurston]

I'd wait 5k miles to properly break it in. That's how long I waited after buying my car...

What about when people take a car on a test drive? Everyone floors it at some point often multiple times and the dealers don't seem to care at all about breaking in the motor when they're trying to sell a car.

just something I think about and try to square up w/ this idea of keeping it under 4k rpm the first xxx number of miles. any thoughts?

[paul]

no reason to wait.. just put the pulley/tune back on now.

[homelessNY_LI]

Do what you feel comfortable with. IMO you either do it now and get it over with or wait for the 12/12 to run its course. Really no in between

[schirm]

What about when people take a car on a test drive? Everyone floors it at some point often multiple times and the dealers don't seem to care at all about breaking in the motor when they're trying to sell a car.

just something I think about and try to square up w/ this idea of keeping it under 4k rpm the first xxx number of miles. any thoughts?

If dealers agree with the hard break in technique then I don't think they would care.

My car saw redline prob 10+ times before it hit 1,000 miles

[Thurston]

If dealers agree with the hard break in technique then I don't think they would care.

My car saw redline prob 10+ times before it hit 1,000 miles

I wasn't privy as to what went wrong w/ your old motor, do you think the 10+ before 1k could have been a contributing factor? kidding.. i'll have to wade through that other thread to see what happened.

I personally believe in the hard break in as well but what would the audi engineers say? Have they spoken on the question of break in? Doesn't seem like anyone cares in the past when i've gone to test drive a new car.

Also what is a 12/12 warranty?

[moophone]

I went APR Stage 2 around 1000 km. What better way to break it in? lol

Thats impressive 5K on a brand new car and tuned it ha. I thought breaking in was to about 1,000 miles or so.

[LurkAllDay]

Not sure if this applies, but here is the instructions I received for breaking in a OEM Subaru motor from IAG motorsports:

OEM Subaru Motor Break In Info / Oil Changes:
-2500 Miles @ 2500 miles total on motor – Change oil w/ Royal Purple Break In
-2500 Miles later @ 5000 miles total on motor – Change oil to Motul Synthetic 5w30
--- Change oil every 3K miles beyond
-Vary RPM / Vary Load Conditions / Keep below 4K RPM for first 1000 miles – Bring to IAG for test drive/monitoring before resuming normal driving
-Good decel conditions and engine braking = vacuum = Good for break in!
-CHECK OIL AND FLUIDS EVERY TIME YOU FILL UP GAS!!!!!

[schirm]

I wasn't privy as to what went wrong w/ your old motor, do you think the 10+ before 1k could have been a contributing factor? kidding.. i'll have to wade through that other thread to see what happened.

I personally believe in the hard break in as well but what would the audi engineers say? Have they spoken on the question of break in? Doesn't seem like anyone cares in the past when i've gone to test drive a new car.

Also what is a 12/12 warranty?

Haha well I started doing pulls after the clutch had 500 miles. I am hard on my cars there is no doubt about that

[BlownOne]

I would break it in with the tune, i heard hard break in is actually better...just my opinion.

^this. You need to keep the rpm constantly changing, but you also need to drive it like you stole it lol

[Usa]

I would break it in with the tune, i heard hard break in is actually better...just my opinion.

I would suggest this as well, you want the rings to seat as early as possible. Get it hot and get nasty with it.

[Chandler]

I would suggest this as well, you want the rings to seat as early as possible. Get it hot and get nasty with it.

I would break it in with the tune, i heard hard break in is actually better...just my opinion.

I disagree. The stock tune is fine. But I don't know the APR Tune's demands on the motor. The timing may be too aggressive, the boost too high... etc. I would put 1.5K miles on the car at least - take your pick of break in procedure. 5K is pretty conservative, but admirable.

[MrFunk]

5k is really to be safe. In that many miles you'll have given everything enough time to seat and start working together etc.

Exactly. In 5k miles any issues should have show themselves... Especially with an engine replacement. It's more so for warranty purposes than anything.

What about when people take a car on a test drive? Everyone floors it at some point often multiple times and the dealers don't seem to care at all about breaking in the motor when they're trying to sell a car.

just something I think about and try to square up w/ this idea of keeping it under 4k rpm the first xxx number of miles. any thoughts?

Which is why I don't buy cars like this off the lot. I ordered mine just how I wanted it and waited "patiently" for 3 months...
Plus, you are correct - a sales person doesn't care less about engine break in... they may give you advise but they don't really care...

[schirm]

I disagree. The stock tune is fine. But I don't know the APR Tune's demands on the motor. The timing may be too aggressive, the boost too high... etc. I would put 1.5K miles on the car at least - take your pick of break in procedure. 5K is pretty conservative, but admirable.

Well I just passed the 1,500 mark. I think I am just going to ride out the winter and tune it in March. Its just hard I miss having the tune.

[Usa]

I disagree. The stock tune is fine. But I don't know the APR Tune's demands on the motor. The timing may be too aggressive, the boost too high... etc. I would put 1.5K miles on the car at least - take your pick of break in procedure. 5K is pretty conservative, but admirable.

If he is planning to drive the car permanently after breaking the engine with the timing and boost of a tune, it only makes sense that the car should be broken in appropriately to those same conditions.

[Chandler]

If he is planning to drive the car permanently after breaking the engine with the timing and boost of a tune, it only makes sense that the car should be broken in appropriately to those same conditions.

I disagree. There are no issues with the top piston ring not having a large enough gap. It is possible these tuned conditions will lean out the air and fuel ratio in different rpm ranges. With the engine not broken in, this is not something I would personally want to introduce to the block.

Break in procedures can be argued left and right all day longer, however.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[jsh139]

Also what is a 12/12 warranty?

12 months, or 12,000 miles. Whichever comes first, I would imagine.

[netimebut4]

Trust me man, wait a few thousand miles before you flash it again. You never know what can happen.

[MrFunk]

Trust me man, wait a few thousand miles before you flash it again. You never know what can happen.

Exactly.

[schirm]

12 months, or 12,000 miles. Whichever comes first, I would imagine.

Correct.

Trust me man, wait a few thousand miles before you flash it again. You never know what can happen.

Yeah that is what I am thinking. I do about 2k miles a month so won't take me long.

[Dr GP]

At 1.5k miles, you can really do whatever you like, regardless of break in technique . My question to everyone is "what do you consider a hard break in"( I believe there is quite a misunderstanding) and you need to differentiate between engine "Break In " and Engine "Wear in"

[Dr GP]

IMHO, there are 3 basic types of break in techniques plus an innumerable amount of variations. These are MY classifications:

1) Easy. This is what Audi recommends. For the first 1k miles, you don't drive over 5k rpms and basically baby the car with only gentle to moderate acceleration.

2) Aggressive. Often mistakenly called HARD. From day#1, after allowing the car to warm up to normal operating temps, do WOT runs, starting in first gear or D, to the redline. or just short of redline for the squeamish. Followed intermediately by taking foot off of gas pedal and letting car coast back down to normal speed in gear (engine braking). This is done no more than 2-3 times a day. WOT in any gear below redline as desired. This is done for the first 1K miles . After that, drive it any way you like.

3) Hard. Also called "Drive it like you Stole it!". From Day #1, no attempt is made to drive the car easy. WOTs to redline at will and often. Concerted effort made to drive car as aggressively as possible .

Most of you know by now that I am a proponent of #2 which is based on the MOTOMAN technique. However, in a true Motoman technique, you would drain out the factory synthetic oil, put in non synthetic break in oil for the first 1k miles, and then put synthetic oil back in at 1k miles. I do not advocate this, but in theory, it would be better for piston ring seating. You will find owners who have done each of these techniques who claim that they have no oil consumption issues. Let it also be known that there have been many reports of excessive oil consumption with the B8 S4 that were rectified with the replacement or repair of the PCV valve. However, in almost every case of excessive oil consumption with these cars(and others) have been with those who have used the easy technique. (other engine defects excepted). Actually, the Hard break in is better than the aggressive technique to get the piston rings to seat COMPLETELY. However, IMHO, the hard technique puts unnecessary extra stress on other moving parts in the engine, and drive train.

Also, there needs to be a distinction made between engine BREAK IN and engine WEAR IN. Engine Break in is about getting the pistons seated completely. You have about 1k miles to get than done. If it doesn't get done by then it will never happen. Engine Wear In, has to do with allowing the moving parts in the engine and drive train to mesh with each other. This can take up to 5k miles or longer to happen. While theses parts are wearing in against each other, Friction is a good thing. After, they have worn in, friction is your enemy. Wear in is why the engine feels stronger after putting 5k or more miles on the car. Engine wear in is why I don't believe it is necessary or even a good thing to change the factory oil at 1k miles. For 5k miles, some friction is good, after that, friction is your engines enemy.

[schirm]

IMHO, there are 3 basic types of break in techniques plus an innumerable amount of variations. These are MY classifications:

1) Easy. This is what Audi recommends. For the first 1k miles, you don't drive over 5k rpms and basically baby the car with only gentle to moderate acceleration.

2) Aggressive. Often mistakenly called HARD. From day#1, after allowing the car to warm up to normal operating temps, do WOT runs, starting in first gear or D, to the redline. or just short of redline for the squeamish. Followed intermediately by taking foot off of gas pedal and letting car coast back down to normal speed in gear (engine braking). This is done no more than 2-3 times a day. WOT in any gear below redline as desired. This is done for the first 1K miles . After that, drive it any way you like.

3) Hard. Also called "Drive it like you Stole it!". From Day #1, no attempt is made to drive the car easy. WOTs to redline at will and often. Concerted effort made to drive car as aggressively as possible .

Most of you know by now that I am a proponent of #2 which is based on the MOTOMAN technique. However, in a true Motoman technique, you would drain out the factory synthetic oil, put in non synthetic break in oil for the first 1k miles, and then put synthetic oil back in at 1k miles. I do not advocate this, but in theory, it would be better for piston ring seating. You will find owners who have done each of these techniques who claim that they have no oil consumption issues. Let it also be known that there have been many reports of excessive oil consumption with the B8 S4 that were rectified with the replacement or repair of the PCV valve. However, in almost every case of excessive oil consumption with these cars(and others) have been with those who have used the easy technique. (other engine defects excepted). Actually, the Hard break in is better than the aggressive technique to get the piston rings to seat COMPLETELY. However, IMHO, the hard technique puts unnecessary extra stress on other moving parts in the engine, and drive train.

Also, there needs to be a distinction made between engine BREAK IN and engine WEAR IN. Engine Break in is about getting the pistons seated completely. You have about 1k miles to get than done. If it doesn't get done by then it will never happen. Engine Wear In, has to do with allowing the moving parts in the engine and drive train to mesh with each other. This can take up to 5k miles or longer to happen. While theses parts are wearing in against each other, Friction is a good thing. After, they have worn in, friction is your enemy. Wear in is why the engine feels stronger after putting 5k or more miles on the car. Engine wear in is why I don't believe it is necessary or even a good thing to change the factory oil at 1k miles. For 5k miles, some friction is good, after that, friction is your engines enemy.

OK I am definitely in the middle of #2 and 3. Audi told me to do the first oil change at 5,000 miles.

[Dr GP]

Good! I believe 5k oil change is the way to go.

[Deckdout2]

IMHO, there are 3 basic types of break in techniques plus an innumerable amount of variations. These are MY classifications:

1) Easy. This is what Audi recommends. For the first 1k miles, you don't drive over 5k rpms and basically baby the car with only gentle to moderate acceleration.

2) Aggressive. Often mistakenly called HARD. From day#1, after allowing the car to warm up to normal operating temps, do WOT runs, starting in first gear or D, to the redline. or just short of redline for the squeamish. Followed intermediately by taking foot off of gas pedal and letting car coast back down to normal speed in gear (engine braking). This is done no more than 2-3 times a day. WOT in any gear below redline as desired. This is done for the first 1K miles . After that, drive it any way you like.

3) Hard. Also called "Drive it like you Stole it!". From Day #1, no attempt is made to drive the car easy. WOTs to redline at will and often. Concerted effort made to drive car as aggressively as possible .

Most of you know by now that I am a proponent of #2 which is based on the MOTOMAN technique. However, in a true Motoman technique, you would drain out the factory synthetic oil, put in non synthetic break in oil for the first 1k miles, and then put synthetic oil back in at 1k miles. I do not advocate this, but in theory, it would be better for piston ring seating. You will find owners who have done each of these techniques who claim that they have no oil consumption issues. Let it also be known that there have been many reports of excessive oil consumption with the B8 S4 that were rectified with the replacement or repair of the PCV valve. However, in almost every case of excessive oil consumption with these cars(and others) have been with those who have used the easy technique. (other engine defects excepted). Actually, the Hard break in is better than the aggressive technique to get the piston rings to seat COMPLETELY. However, IMHO, the hard technique puts unnecessary extra stress on other moving parts in the engine, and drive train.

Also, there needs to be a distinction made between engine BREAK IN and engine WEAR IN. Engine Break in is about getting the pistons seated completely. You have about 1k miles to get than done. If it doesn't get done by then it will never happen. Engine Wear In, has to do with allowing the moving parts in the engine and drive train to mesh with each other. This can take up to 5k miles or longer to happen. While theses parts are wearing in against each other, Friction is a good thing. After, they have worn in, friction is your enemy. Wear in is why the engine feels stronger after putting 5k or more miles on the car. Engine wear in is why I don't believe it is necessary or even a good thing to change the factory oil at 1k miles. For 5k miles, some friction is good, after that, friction is your engines enemy.

I will co-sign all of this. This it the proper way to break in a modern motor. The tolerances of newer motors are much much tighter, and back in the day. Older motors required an easy break in for the first few thousand miles, because the tolerances back then were not as tight as today.

I fully built my VQ 3.5 in my last car and this was the method I used to break it in. Drove it aggressively after the 1st 25 miles.