2003 B6 A4 five speed manual to six speed swap.

[Kevin C]

I have been collecting a few pieces for the swap and I'm ready to pick up a transmission.

Based on threads I have read this is what I've got.

I'm going with a GJW 2004-2005 six speed for my 2003... I like the ratios.

My five current speed:

1.8T 5 Speed, B6
Rear Axle 3.89
Over all Ratio MPH @ 3200 RPM
3.778*3.89= 14.69___ (15.9)
2.176*3.89= 8.46___ (27.62)
1.429*3.89= 5.55___ (42.1)
1.091*3.89= 4.24___ (55.1)
0.889*3.89= 3.45___ (67.6)

RPM @ 65 MPH =3080

1.8T 6 speed Quattro, B6 2004-2005 GJW
Rear Axle: 4.11
GEAR Overall Ratio- MPH at 3200 RPM
1st 3.667* 4.11=15.07... (15.5)
2nd 2.053*4.11=8.43... (27.7)
3rd 1.423*4.11=5.84... (39.99)
4th 1.065*4.11= 4.37... (53.4)
5th 0.853*4.11= 3.50... (66.7)
6th 0.685*4.11= 2.81... (83.1)


RPM @ 65 MPH = 2500

A little bit more in first... Third is a bit closer, fourth is just about the same, as is fifth... Then you have a nice sixth.

For a complete picture of options, here is the GVE from a B7, 2.0T

2.0T 6 speed Quattro, B7 2005.5 GVE (edited)
Rear Axle: 3.89
GEAR Overall Ratio- MPH at 3200 RPM
1st 3.667* 3.89 = 14.26.... (16.4)
2nd 2.053*3.89= 7.98.. (29.3)
3rd 1.37*3.89 = 5.32... (43.9)
4th 1.032*3.89 = 4.01... (58.3)
5th 0.8*3.89 = 3.12... (75.1)
6th 0.685*3.89 = 2.55... (91.3)

RPM @ 65 MPH= 2280

I have sourced a ETQ rear diff ( 4.11 gears) and a 8E0 521 101D (superseded to 8E0 521 101T) drive shaft ( from a 2005 B6 auto).

That leaves me with needing a shifter and front CV's.

Questions:

1: I'm picking up a complete shifter box with linkages and knob from the six speed. I'm pretty sure my five speed shifter linkages won't work. True?
2: Do I need the cross member from the six speed?

Thanks!

[Kevin C]

According to parts.audiusa.com, the pn for the crossmember is the same, five speed or six speed. PN 8E0399263BH .... One less thing to deal with.

[customa4]

Awesome! Good luck with the swap man.

[Matt Devo]

1: I'm picking up a complete shifter box with linkages and knob from the six speed. I'm pretty sure my five speed shifter linkages won't work. True?
2: Do I need the cross member from the six speed?
Thanks!

1) correct, they're completely different
2) no, but the Y-shaped mounting bracket and transmission mount itself are different between transmissions

[Kevin C]

1) correct, they're completely different
2) no, but the Y-shaped mounting bracket and transmission mount itself are different between transmissions

Thanks!!!

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm for this project - I'm half replying to subscribe to the thread - but did you consider a B5 2.8 5-speed? I also considered the 6-speed, but ultimately decided that the taller ratios of the V6-spec 5-speed would largely meet my needs for a lot less money and effort. I'm totally fine with my choice now that I've had it in for over a year.

[Waspjr]

Cool man good luck i barely use 6th in my b61.8t but when i get to its nice


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[BARRY]

how do you barely use your 6th gear? I use it everyday driving at 60mph or higher.

[walky_talky20]

So the Tiptronic and 6-speed 02X driveshafts are the same? Did not know that..

[daught]

Cool man good luck i barely use 6th in my b61.8t but when i get to its nice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

+1. I barely use my reverse, but when I do it's nice to have :p

[Kevin C]

I don't want to dampen your enthusiasm for this project - I'm half replying to subscribe to the thread - but did you consider a B5 2.8 5-speed? I also considered the 6-speed, but ultimately decided that the taller ratios of the V6-spec 5-speed would largely meet my needs for a lot less money and effort. I'm totally fine with my choice now that I've had it in for over a year.

It was an easy decision; I wanted a six speed. Done deal, I ordered one from a yard in Michigan, 92,000 miles for $540 plus shipping. I should be into this for about $1150 by the time I'm done.

Costs so far:

Drive shaft W 112,000 miles $80
Rear diff, W 112,000 miles $80
Shifter $50
Transmission, W 92,000 miles $545
Used factory CV's 2@$50 $100
Shipping ( ouch) $300
Trans mount and bracket, free

I got a the VIN from the donor vehicle and ran a check on it... It really had 92,000 miles.

So far, I'm into this for $1155 and I get a tranny with 40,000 less miles.

Last year I had a choice, I could pick up a newer car and pay a more, or pay cash for this and make upgrades and updates as as go. After a year of no car payments, I'm not too worried about dropping $1200 on a swap.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

It was an easy decision I wanted a six speed.

Fair enough. I initially had the same thought a couple years ago. At that time, the parts were pricey - what you got for $1155 I couldn't find for less than $2500. When I came across a wrecked '00 2.8 5-speed at the U-Pull-It, my new plan materialized. For $100 I had a known-good 5-speed with taller ratios.

Look forward to your updates.

[Kevin C]

Update.. Pics to follow. Tuesday the parts showed up. Pretty much everything I needed was included. Full shifter box, linkages mount and bracket, from CV's with knuckles thrown in for free. Once get the axle bolts out, I should be good.

One thing I have been looking at is what to run for a clutch.

Options include , stock type 228mm Valeo dual mass, aftermarket single mass 240mm or the stock dual mass 240mm used on the B7 2.0. Since I have an 02X transmission, I should be able to fit the B7's flywheel. The only possible glitch would be is if the B7's 02X casings are machined slightly different to allow for a larger flywheel.

Perfect world? I would use a 240mm dual mass stock from a B7 and have it be better than the stock B6 dual mass. The downside is it's about $300 more expensive to use the B7 parts.

I think I figured out what's different from the B6 and the B7. From what I can tell, the B7, uses a larger ring gear and a different starter that does not have a nose and has the pinion offset so it meshes properly.

Basicly, if you have a B7, you should be able to put a B6 clutch in if you use the B6 starter. I just need to verify that the casing is the same from the GVE (2.0T) and the GJW (1.8T); does the swap work the other way around.

Also, I noticed that the B7 factory clutch not only has a dual mass flywheel, it appears to have a springs in the hub.

[RDA990]

Will do this swap one day. You've found good prices for all of the parts, did you use car-part.com?

Also, will you be doing the swap on a lift or jack stands? Dropping the tranny or removing the engine + tranny?

So the Tiptronic and 6-speed 02X driveshafts are the same? Did not know that..

When I was researching the swap a few years ago I saw that the rear diff was the same on the Tip and the 6-speed, but the drive shaft were different. If I'm not mistaken the Tip drive shaft is shorter than the 6-speed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Kevin C]

Will do this swap one day. You've found good prices for all of the parts, did you use car-part.com?

Also, will you be doing the swap on a lift or jack stands? Dropping the tranny or removing the engine + tranny?



When I was researching the swap a few years ago I saw that the rear diff was the same on the Tip and the 6-speed, but the drive shaft were different. If I'm not mistaken the Tip drive shaft is shorter than the 6-speed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.jimellisaudiparts.com/pro...E0521101T.html

I verified the part number on Jim Ellis Audi.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...-5pd-to-a-6spd

This post...

Rock Auto lists the same part number for the five speed auto and the six speed manual. Unless I missed something, it looks to be the right part.

I'm planning on jack stands and dropping it. I will have a trans jack and a plan to get the car far enough up in the air. I have done a few tranny swaps this way, although its was for my 4WD Dodge that didn't need to be jacked up very far to get the transmission out.

EDIT: If anyone can double check my driveshaft info, I would be grateful! I want to make sure I have the right parts lined up before I take the car apart.

[Kevin C]

Six speed garden cart. The gear oil was very clean, so far so good.



Seriously stuck hub bolts. 950 ft lb 3/4 in drive didn't break them, my breaker bars looked like noodles, I probably need more heat. Can you tell the axles are from where they use road salt?

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Seriously stuck hub bolts. 950 ft lb 3/4 in drive didn't break them, my breaker bars looked like noodles, I probably need more heat. Can you tell the axles are from where they use road salt?

Yes, heat is your friend. I bought one of these a couple years ago... http://www.boltbusterinc.com/
It made the difference in removing my hub bolts.

[Kevin C]

Yes, heat is your friend. I bought one of these a couple years ago... http://www.boltbusterinc.com/
It made the difference in removing my hub bolts.

I made two cuts in the bolt, that was enough to remove the preload. The bolt was so loose it almost fell out. Collateral damage was the wheel hub. Considering how bad the lug bolt threads are, not a big loss (extra parts from the yard that I don't need to use). My $20 super cheap air cutoff took about 10 minutes to make the two cuts. http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-hi...ool-68832.html

Very cool looking bolt heater.... Right now I would be happy to get a new oxy acetylene setup.



Axles look pretty good.

[Kevin C]

Clutch choices:

I wanted to stay with a dual mass system. As best as I can tell, I have two choices.

1: Factory 1.8T 228mm
2: Try the 240mm unit from a B7.

Despite reading some reports that the B7 clutches did not hold up that well (90K miles and worn out) , I decided to give it a try. On paper, it offers several advantages, namely a larger diameter and a SAC type pressure plate. I'm also assuming that in the nine to ten years since the first B7's were built, that they have any manufacturing or design issues worked out.

I have searched alot but I have yet to find anyone that has made this work. Last week, I figured out that the manual transmission B7 uses a different starter. To get a better idea of the part, I picked up a used one on E Bay for $17. It looks really clean. The first thing I noticed is that the alignment pin appears to have only gone part way into the bell housing.



That seems to indicate that the 2.0T uses a block spacer. I made a few part number searches on Jim Ellis Audi on line ordering system, with no luck.

A search on Ebay turned up this:



So far it seems that to adapt a 2.0T clutch to a 1.8T you need a 2.0T manual transmission starter and the block spacer plate. The slave cylinder part numbers are also different, but I'm not sure what changed. I should have the spacer in about a week.



GVE transmission with spacer for sale on Ebay. That seems to confirm that to get the stack up right on a 2.0T clutch on the 02X transmission, you need a spacer.

The 2.0 flywheel and clutch should be here this week. I also mounted the the 2.0 starter on my 02X GJW transmission (2004) and took a measurement of the distance from the input shaft centerline to the root of the gear teeth. I used that measurement to verify that the ID of the bellhousing would clear the ring gear on the larger 2.0 flywheel.

Progress... Just waiting on parts.

[Kevin C]

Parts!!!



At the top is my $17 E Bay Starter, a great deal assuming that it actually works.

Under the starter I have two bearings, on the left is the pilot bearing for a 1.8T, and on the right the pilot bearing for a 2.0T. Same diameter, the 2.0 part seems to have a nice extruded end to fully enclose the snout of the input shaft and a bit more of a grease reservoir. It would be nice if the 2.0 part fits the 1.8t crank.



The 2.0, 140mm ring gear clears the bellhousing on the GJW; Good to know.



240mm dual mass flywheel.



240mm disk. This is the only time I have seen a dual mass paired up with a disk that has a sprung hub.



Flywheel and SAC.

So far, so good.

[old guy]

Nice work!!

Interestingly enough my original OEM clutch contained a sprung disc along with a dual mass flywheel.

[Kevin C]

Nice work!!

Interestingly enough my original OEM clutch contained a sprung disc along with a dual mass flywheel.

Good info... Thanks!

Spacer arrived. It's good to finally have its part number and know what it's called.



PN 01X103551. A search on that number turned up some good info, like people using of other swaps.



Fits perfectly.

[Tom in Seattle]

The 2.0 flywheel and clutch should be here this week. I also mounted the the 2.0 starter on my 02X GJW transmission (2004) and took a measurement of the distance from the input shaft centerline to the root of the gear teeth. I used that measurement to verify that the ID of the bellhousing would clear the ring gear on the larger 2.0 flywheel.

That flywheel and clutch look nice. Is that a new flywheel from Valeo or an Audi part? I'm going to install an Advanced Automotion rebuilt 01E in my B6 and need to come up with an appropriate flywheel and clutch solution.

[Kevin C]

That flywheel and clutch look nice. Is that a new flywheel from Valeo or an Audi part? I'm going to install an Advanced Automotion rebuilt 01E in my B6 and need to come up with an appropriate flywheel and clutch solution.

It's from Luk. So far, Rockauto has the best price at around $400. FYI, when ordering from them there is a default 5% off code that you enter into how did you hear about us. I'm a couple weeks away from install, I'll do the swap when my wife is away on spring break.

[csosnowski]

I would be interested to know if the S4/RS4 clutch is compatible with this flywheel. I've been doing some interesting reading in another thread about using the luk set for S4/RS4 on a modified RA4 flywheel.

I would also be interested to know if using the spacer and starter from the B7 would allow the use of the Clutchmasters steel single mass unit FW-025-SF ($538) and the S4/RS4 luk repset 02050 ($138). That seems like it would make a great combo.

Is that the clutch set from the B7 2.0t?

[Kevin C]

I would be interested to know if the S4/RS4 clutch is compatible with this flywheel. I've been doing some interesting reading in another thread about using the luk set for S4/RS4 on a modified RA4 flywheel.

I would also be interested to know if using the spacer and starter from the B7 would allow the use of the Clutchmasters steel single mass unit FW-025-SF ($538) and the S4/RS4 luk repset 02050 ($138). That seems like it would make a great combo.

Is that the clutch set from the B7 2.0t?

Yes, that is the B7 2.0T clutch.

[Matt Devo]

I would be interested to know if the S4/RS4 clutch is compatible with this flywheel. I've been doing some interesting reading in another thread about using the luk set for S4/RS4 on a modified RA4 flywheel.

I'd be interested as well; I love everything about my RS4 clutch except the horrible gear chatter due to the 9lb aluminum lwfw (which chatters quite a bit on 5-speeds, no matter what JHM says), and seems like there would still be a bit even switching over to the RA4 steel lwfw.

[csosnowski]

I'd be interested as well; I love everything about my RS4 clutch except the horrible gear chatter due to the 9lb aluminum lwfw (which chatters quite a bit on 5-speeds, no matter what JHM says), and seems like there would still be a bit even switching over to the RA4 steel lwfw.

I think when the time comes I will put a b7 dmfw with an b7 rs4 luk repset in my b6. It seems like a good option and I think they'll go right in and have the correct stack height and sac operation, although I wonder what the differences are between the two.

I have one at my shop I can look at and compare to Kevins 2.0t set pics.

[Kevin C]

Once I pull my car apart, I will make sure to take flywheel measurements comparing the two systems. I'm hoping to take some of the guesswork out of this swap.

[Matt Devo]

Once I pull my car apart, I will make sure to take flywheel measurements comparing the two systems. I'm hoping to take some of the guesswork out of this swap.

gracias

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Subscribed for updates and results!!!!

[Kevin C]

A quick Update...

I'm hoping to start on the swap on 3/18... Spring break.

Parts Info:

Looking at the throwout bearing for the B7 2.0t clutch I noticed that the height of the face that presses on the pressure plate to the surface the engages the clutch fork is taller than the one that came on a 2004 A4, B6 five speed.



How it stacks up:

The block spacer is about 5.7 mm (.225")

The 2.0T bearing height is 26.41 mm (1.04")

The 1.8T Six speed bearing height is 24.13 mm (.95")

The spacer moves the throwout bearing 5.7 mm away from the pressure plate.

The 2.0T bearing moves the engagement surface about 2.3 mm closer to the fingers.

It should work out that the 2.0T clutch finger height is about 3.4 mm higher than your typical 1.8T clutch.

[Charles.waite]

The 2.0t clutch definitely grabs lower in the pedal travel. Back when I had my b6 it took a few minutes to adjust between the two every time I would switch. Given that the bearing is a few mm farther away, that sounds about right to me.

[Tom in Seattle]

A quick Update...

...

It should work out that the 2.0T clutch finger height is about 3.4 mm higher than your typical 1.8T clutch.

So, I guess what you are saying is the 02X with the B7 DMFW and clutch needs the spacer between the engine and trans :-)

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. I was in the process of purchasing a fully rebuilt 01E from Scotty at Advanced Automotion. Unfortunately, the donor Allroad trans has issues, so in addition to finding another Allroad 01E (has the gearing I want to use), we are looking at a rebuilt 0A3 from an RS4. The RS4 trans has the 4.11 final with pretty short gearing, similar to an B6 02X in 1st but shorter in all other gears, so even in 6th my rpms would only drop about 7% compared to my 01A as the RS4 final is 3.20 (B6 02X is 2.71 and B7 02X is 2.56).

The 01E appears to have some advantages over the 0A3 in strength, although both are plenty strong for my 1.8T. The 0A3 is a bit lighter, but also a bit bulkier due to the synchro reverse. The Allroad 01E uses different flanges so finding axles is not as easy, which would be an advantage for the 0A3.

Anyone out there used either the 01E or 0A3 in a 1.8 or 2.0T application?

Thanks for this write-up, it's been very interesting, and good luck on the rest of the installation.

[Kevin C]

I pulled the five speed out today and had a chance to compare the B6 clutch to the B7 unit.

240 mm B7 flywheel definitely will not fit a B6 five speed. It hits pretty much everywhere.


228 B6 next to the 240 B7 flywheel.


Both are sitting on a 2X4 to place the flywheel flange at the same height. The ring gear on the B7 unit ( left) sit closer to the engine block.



Side by side of the pressure plates.



Good progress. I obviously got the old unit out and the new flywheel is in. I also swapped out my converter since I was getting a CEL for low efficiency. I may have also found the mystery rattle, the old converter is loose in the canister.

BTW, this is a heck of a workout....

[Kevin C]

BTW... This is my setup:

I don't like jackstands, so I went with cribbing ( the boards are screwed together) This allowed my to get a bit more altitude than I can get with jackstands and they are not in the way. My transmission jack is a bit tall and this definitely helped.

Also, No need for me to go to the gym and do situps or any neck exercises; this is plenty.



I placed three LED shop lights on the floor one on each side and one in the front. I still need a drop light, but the down low lighting does help.


I also figured out that the axles in my 2003 five speed are the same PN as the one the six speed uses.


I built the garage about four years ago, nice to be finally using it for an upgrade project. It replaced a leaky, smelly "shed" that just fit a car in by a foot or so with terminal rot and foundation damage. Its nice to get a payback on the work that went into the new garage.

[Kevin C]

One Issue I noticed was that the dowel pins on the block were a bit short to align the transmission to the engine with the 5mm spacer in place. It's possible to move the existing bushing back a tiny bit and make it work, but there was not a lot of margin. Fortunately, I was was able to knock out a pair at work since a couple of coworkers were in on Sunday. I was being good and not breaking shop rules on running equipment alone.

A better solution would have been to have ordered the right ones in advance.

I started with a bar of 303 stainless, the target OD was a tiny bit over 16mm, not bad for an old lathe.



Old VS new.



FYI : This mod was only needed because I'm planning on running the 240mm B7 clutch.

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Can the dowel pins be ordered from Audi or do they need to be manufactured?

[Kevin C]

They should be something you can order. Since it was Sunday and I didn't want to hold the swap waited on a set, so I went with making my own.

[MurkyRivers_A4]

Makes sense and looks damn good.

What's the status as of now?