Reinstalling cams for the first time. Is this normal?

[K04andmeth]

Got the proper # of links on both side, and lined them up with the cam marks. Put the belt on and loaded the tensioner. Now the passenger side is off.
I have not removed the crank lock pin, and have not rotated the assembly, don't know if that will help anything.

Cam lock bar as they sit


Cam lock bar in position. Not much force required to get it there


Drivers side #1


Drivers side #2


Passenger side #1


Passenger side #2

[Kenrevo]

That looks really close. I haven't done it in a while so forget exactly how they look but one cam is always off 1/2 a link. There is a better picture someplace but this one is gives a rough idea:



Here is the better one:

[K04andmeth]

That looks really close. I haven't done it in a while so forget exactly how they look but one cam is always off 1/2 a link. There is a better picture someplace but this one is gives a rough idea:



Here is the better one:

Yeah I used the top image, and triple checked both sides. The issue I am having is that they are not right on ion relation to each other...

I feel like if I clicked the passenger cams over one tooth, they would then be too far the opposite way...

[LightningLou]

Yeah I used the top image, and triple checked both sides. The issue I am having is that they are not right on ion relation to each other...

Loosen the cam gears back up a bit and pull them so they are free to spin with cam bar in place and apply tension to timing belt... Tighten cam gear bolts back up to spec and spin crank over by hand a few times and put the bar back on to make sure everything is aligned.

[Kenrevo]

Can you post a picture of the full chains? Looking again they are on the inside of the timing marks which doesn't seam right, I would guess one link short on one or both sides.

Also your pictures of the passenger side are of the same side.

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[zillarob]

Ya, redo the timing belt. The cam bar should slip in and out before, and after you spin the motor over by hand 720deg to check.

Those chains are a mofo. I try not to mess with them, but if I do, I set them up on the bench.

Put cams in chain and pull out the slack, both notches should point straight up.



(can paint a link and a tooth to check your work when done)
Without letting the chain slip a tooth, slide the tensioner in, and drop it in the head.

[K04andmeth]

Loosen the cam gears back up a bit and pull them so they are free to spin with cam bar in place and apply tension to timing belt... Tighten cam gear bolts back up to spec and spin crank over by hand a few times and put the bar back on to make sure everything is aligned.

After looking at it again, I think the cams could do with being rotated one link over.
How do I do the process you listed? Is this correct:
1. Loosen cam gear bolts so they are free to spin independent of camshafts
2. Leave timing belt tensioner torqued to spec
3. ????

[K04andmeth]

Ya, redo the timing belt. The cam bar should slip in and out before, and after you spin the motor over by hand 720deg to check.

Those chains are a mofo. I try not to mess with them, but if I do, I set them up on the bench.

Put cams in chain and pull out the slack, both notches should point straight up.



(can paint a link and a tooth to check your work when done)
Without letting the chain slip a tooth, slide the tensioner in, and drop it in the head.

That's exactly the way I did it. Out of the car, and then slid it in.
ASSUMING the chain links are correct, how can I remedy this?

[zillarob]

Here is what you want to see.

Pass side, motor with cam bar and crank pin in. The black mark is transfered from where the pickup would be inside the sensor.




For the driver side, you need to rotate the engine 360deg and put the crank pin in. The cam bar will not go in.

[zillarob]

That's exactly the way I did it. Out of the car, and then slid it in.
ASSUMING the chain links are correct, how can I remedy this?

Pop the sprockets, retension the belt, tighten the sprockets. (with cam bar and crank pin)

[zillarob]

Oh ya, double check you put the tensioners on the correct sides just to be safe.

[rguil]

before you button it all up you can start the car with the serp belt off and no rad to determine if you are in spec in vcds. Block 93 in engine measurement blocks shows how far off the intake cams are in relation to the crankshaft. 0 percent for both banks is perfect. the ecu can correct timing as long as both banks are within 4 degrees of each other. that is the spec from bently if im not mistaken.

[Robsa6]

What is all the shavings all over the gear, chain, and cam lobes in the first picture? I wouldn't be rotating anything inside there until I got all that cleaned out of there... Zillarob is right on thou.

[K04andmeth]

Pop the sprockets, retension the belt, tighten the sprockets. (with cam bar and crank pin)

1. Loosen bolts from gears to cams
2. Release tension on timing belt via tensioner and 8mm allen
3. Install cam lock bar
4. Retension the belt via tensioner and 8mm allen
5. Tighten down bolts from gears to cams

Is that correct?
I feel like the passenger side marks will get a bit further from the correct position.

[zillarob]

1. If you can put the cam bar in, do so.
2. Pop the sprockets.
3. Crank pin in (if not already there)
4. Retension the belt.
5. Tighten cam sprockets.
6. Pull bar and pin.
7. Turn crank 720deg cw and see if the pin and the bar slip back in.

[K04andmeth]

1. If you can put the cam bar in, do so.
2. Pop the sprockets.
3. Crank pin in (if not already there)
4. Retension the belt.
5. Tighten cam sprockets.
6. Pull bar and pin.
7. Turn crank 720deg cw and see if the pin and the bar slip back in.

Belt is already tensioned now. Should I untension before loosening sprockets?

Is the theory that if the bar slides in, and the cams each have the proper # of links, it's correct? Even if the notches don't line up 100%?

EDIT: i just checked the passenger side, and turning the cam gear to get the lock bar in place puts the camshaft closer to TDC. I think I am one link short between the two on the passenger side. Will check tomorrow.

[S4gasm aka LOTR]

Just remove the belt before you sync the cams again. You're most likely stretching it with what you're doing right now. Remove belt, (leave crank pin in) and resync cams with cam bar. Check timing at chains. If it's good, reinstall the belt. The belt should be the last thing to go on, and tension it only after timing is 100% on.

[K04andmeth]

Ok, got it all figured out.
Both sides have proper links in the chains.
Tensioned the belt.
Torqued the sprockets.
Rotated 5-6 times.
Cam bar is 99.999% there, but doesn't snap back in.

Should I pop the sprockets and do it again?

[Zba]

If you have the bar in one side and you can get it in the other side with a nudge you're good to go

[okkim]

The cam notches should go quite exactly in their places. It is really easy to calculate those chain links wrong.


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[Zba]

If the cams are out of time there is no way you can get the lock bar in. There is no way you can "stretch" the belt to get it to fit.

[K04andmeth]

If the cams are out of time there is no way you can get the lock bar in. There is no way you can "stretch" the belt to get it to fit.

It was in before i started spinning the crank. Fit like a glove

[Zba]

Did you pull the tensioner pin before locking the cam bolts or vice versa?

[K04andmeth]

Did you pull the tensioner pin before locking the cam bolts or vice versa?

- Lock bar on, sprockets loose, tensioner pin in
- Pull tensioner pin, torque to spec
- Tighten sprocket retaining bolts to spec
- Remove lock bar
- Remove crank lock pin
- Rotate engine via crank

[K04andmeth]

OK, so I tried the process 3 times, with the same order. On the 3rd try, I got the bar to slide back in with no force after a few rotations of the crank. Verified this 3-4 times after rotating the engine in between tries. Then I installed the crank pulley guard and crank pulley, and now it wont line up again.
Here is what happens:

Step 1: Rotate crank until TDC marks line up. Place lock bar on passenger side cam, rotate to horizontal position directly over the drivers side cam. Lock bar does not fit into drivers side cam.


Step 2: Remove lock bar from passenger side cam, place on drivers side cam. Now does not line up on drivers side cam.


Step 3: Rotate engine until lock bar is horizontal, and on top of the drivers side cam. Lock bar does not go into drivers side cam now.


Step 4: Remove lock bar from drivers side cam, place on passenger side cam. Now does not line up on passenger side cam again.


I found that the drivers side cam sprocket part that the lock bar goes into comes loose as soon as the bolt is loosened. No gear puller required. The drivers side always requires the puller to remove the sprocket part the lock bar goes into.


Any ideas? Is this normal?

[zillarob]

Its prob close enough. Start it an check the cam timing in vcds if you want to see how close it is.

[K04andmeth]

Its prob close enough. Start it an check the cam timing in vcds if you want to see how close it is.

Is there any way to tune it in to correct timing, or is that more of a "check it just to make sure" type of thing?

[zillarob]

Its just a way to check.

How much torque are you tensioning with? Almost looks like you are getting it too tight.

[Zba]

Seriously my man, you are waaaay over thinking this. Very first post: out of time; most recent post: in time. Button that shit up and go to bed

[okkim]

Put the crank lock pin in place. Then pop the cam sprockets, install cam locking tool and put the cams in correct position. Tighten the cam bolts and rotate the engine and test if it fits.


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[K04andmeth]

Its just a way to check.

How much torque are you tensioning with? Almost looks like you are getting it too tight.

- Lock bar on, sprockets loose, tensioner pin in
- Pull tensioner pin, torque to spec (15Nm)
- Tighten sprocket retaining bolts to spec (55Nm)
- Remove lock bar
- Remove crank lock pin
- Rotate engine via crank

Torque values gotten from JHM (http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f3...34-10-2012.pdf)

[zillarob]

If you decide to do it again, I use 90in/lb or 10nm on the 8mm allen.

[K04andmeth]

Fired it up. Ran OK, but was definitely not perfect. Did not retorque to 90in/lbs.
Realized the oil was overfilled somehow, and drained to a good level, and it ran smoother. Still has a weird idle, definitely a timing issue.

My question now is, when I get it diagnosed with Vagcom, what will that provide? Will it be like "Oh, it's off by XX degrees, turn the drivers side cam 1 tooth clockwise" or what?
I checked the timing again after it ran today, and it's the exact same as above (nearly there on both sides, but not exact)

[zillarob]

I think its blk93 you need to look at, it will tell you how many deg.

Quit posting and go check that shit already

[K04andmeth]

Borrowed a friend cable.

Only codes it's registering now are:
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30
P1602 - 35-00 - Voltage too Low

Readiness: 0110 0000

Under Block 093:
Phase Position Bank 1: -8.0 °KW
Phase Position Bank 2: 3.0°KW

Whats this all mean?

[zillarob]

Dont worry about the power supply one, they all do that

Now, the cam numbers, you need to go back in
I usually hit +/-1, guy I worked with never used the cam pin and was usually +/-3.

[K04andmeth]

Ran blocks 093, 015, 016 at the same time. Got the below screenshot.
Smells like it;s running rich. I have yet to take it over idle.
The only other issue I know it has is a big oil leak on the drivers head. Could that cause anything?

[K04andmeth]

Dont worry about the power supply one, they all do that

Now, the cam numbers, you need to go back in
I usually hit +/-1, guy I worked with never used the cam pin and was usually +/-3.

So +/- 3.0 is OK to run?

What can I change to get it dead on? Less torque on the tensioner, what else?

[okkim]

No, don't touch the tensioner, just pop the cam sprockets loose and turn them. And remember to reset the fault codes to see the new values. Othervise you can't see the difference immediately.

+/-6 is the factory spec, so +/-3 is good.

[K04andmeth]

No, don't touch the tensioner, just pop the cam sprockets loose and turn them. And remember to reset the fault codes to see the new values. Othervise you can't see the difference immediately.

+/-6 is the factory spec, so +/-3 is good.

Don't I need to open the valve covers to make sure the timing marks are as close as possible to the timing indicators?