B7 A4 Quattro REAR SPRING MADNESS!! Please help

[JWhite1089]

I'm no newbie to car maintenance/modification, but have only done a few things to my 08 S-Line so far. I decided to tackle coilovers, adjustable control arms, Hyperco springs, and machined aluminum spring seats this weekend thinking its a two day job off and on at most. The front is on. Finally. BUT THE BAAAACK.

I read he DIYs, watched videos, followed every step, and these rear springs WILL NOT come out. I dropped rear subframe on one side, loosened the other, took bolts out of rear swaybar links, compressed the springs, and got the shocks out. I have been fighting with this for a couple hours now. Can somebody please tell me what I'm doing wrong or give any suggestions to help. I need to get this thing out of my garage/gym by tomorrow night!!!!!! Thanks in advance.


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[ADCS]

You need to compress the spring more.
What I find works is attaching the spring compressors, you will need 2 per coil, and then jacking up the control arm to compress the spring a bit. Slowly do this as you tighten the compressors till the point that the spring cannot be compressed further. Remove jack from the control arm, place it under the rear diff and then loosen/remove the 2 rear subframe bolts on the side you are working on. Lower the jack slightly for additional clearance however make sure the diff is still firmly supported. Pull out spring. OEM springs are a royal pain so they will likely still require pry bars and many curse words.

[R Nasty]

I'm no newbie to car maintenance/modification, but have only done a few things to my 08 S-Line so far. I decided to tackle coilovers, adjustable control arms, Hyperco springs, and machined aluminum spring seats this weekend thinking its a two day job off and on at most. The front is on. Finally. BUT THE BAAAACK.

I read he DIYs, watched videos, followed every step, and these rear springs WILL NOT come out. I dropped rear subframe on one side, loosened the other, took bolts out of rear swaybar links, compressed the springs, and got the shocks out. I have been fighting with this for a couple hours now. Can somebody please tell me what I'm doing wrong or give any suggestions to help. I need to get this thing out of my garage/gym by tomorrow night!!!!!! Thanks in advance.


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You don't need a spring compressor for the rear springs to come out...all I did was loosen all 4 subframe bolts drop it down a good bit and pulled the springs right out. Hope this helps

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[ADCS]

You don't need a spring compressor for the rear springs to come out...all I did was loosen all 4 subframe bolts drop it down a good bit and pulled the springs right out. Hope this helps

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Sure that makes it easier however good luck re-centering your rear subframe after doing that. Unless you want uneven wheel offsets and poor tire wear. The front has alignment holes to re-straighten it. I don't believe the rear does so it will be trial and error.
Do not loosen/remove the bolts from both sides at the same time.

[R Nasty]

I've had no issues at all and that's how I did it

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[ADCS]

Then you are not very observant (no offense).
You are pretty much guaranteed to make the subframe skewed by a few mm's if you remove all 4 bolts, or remove 2 and loosen the others.

[R Nasty]

I didn't remove any I just loosened them enough to drop down a little and pulled the springs out

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[mtroxel]

Yea there's a lot of talk in Bentley of just loosening one or two bolts at a time on that subframe so as to avoid getting an alignment. Any dog tracking should show up on a good alignment, but I'd tell them I had the rear subframe loose when I took it in....as some of those guys hate their boss and just kinda don't care.

This is from Group 42 in Bentley:

[oVeRdOsE]

You don't need a spring compressor for the rear springs to come out...all I did was loosen all 4 subframe bolts drop it down a good bit and pulled the springs right out. Hope this helps

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+ 1.

I have a 08 sline and I just loose those 4 bolts with these big washers ( bolts head are facing the floor) and pull the spring right away. No compressing tool.
Put back new h&r and that's it.
Took about an hour for the rear.

It will be easier to pull with a spring compressor. But you'll need minimal compression. Use 2 plumbing clip ring to help. Not much strength needed.

[ADCS]

It's not a good idea to loosen more than one side at a time.
Also, I hope you are all replacing the subframe bolts. They are torque to yield so one time use.

[JWhite1089]

I find it very hard to believe that anyone could pull these springs out without the use of a compressor. I finally succeeded by loosening the opposite side subframe, removing the subframe bolts on the side I was working, compressed the spring all the way with 3 coils, and I STILL had to pry it out and jump on the caliper to pull it out. Short of dropping the subframe to the ground I don't see how it's possible without a spring compressor, even with the sport suspension like I had. Also, nothing I read anywhere says anything about torque yield subframe bolts?? I torqued them all back down just fine and will check again when I adjust coilover height. Are you sure they're one time use? It's not like we're talking about head studs here...


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[mtroxel]

Also, nothing I read anywhere says anything about torque yield subframe bolts?? I torqued them all back down just fine and will check again when I adjust coilover height. Are you sure they're one time use? It's not like we're talking about head studs here...

Bentley tells you to use new ones, and they are torque to yield. However, I've reused plenty of suspension bolts I'm not supposed to re-use, and never had an issue.

[ADCS]

Yes they are torque to yield. They have been plastically deformed from the first install so re-using them results in the incorrect preload on the fastener. What does that mean? Well at best they slowly come loose. At worst they fatigue and fail when you are taking a high speed corner. Most people don't bother replacing them. Either they don't know they should or they are smarter than physics. You decide if the $ is worth it to install new ones. After all, they are just the only 4 bolts holding your wheels/brakes/axles/diff/etc to the chassis. No biggie.

[oVeRdOsE]

Yes they are torque to yield. They have been plastically deformed from the first install so re-using them results in the incorrect preload on the fastener. What does that mean? Well at best they slowly come loose. At worst they fatigue and fail when you are taking a high speed corner. Most people don't bother replacing them. Either they don't know they should or they are smarter than physics. You decide if the $ is worth it to install new ones. After all, they are just the only 4 bolts holding your wheels/brakes/axles/diff/etc to the chassis. No biggie.

this is to respect the factory planned values. Just like spark plug, you ''should'' put them once and remove them once. Well, when I was lapping, maybe 20 times a year I remove them for inspection, and replace for new every 2 years, Never had any kind of issue.

I understand what you're saying, but a rusty frame rail is way out of the specifications and tons of people driving like so, and it's legal.
You might drop the ''safety'' level, but how much until you'll reach the danger zone? Unless we make a observation or a software simulation, it's hard to tell.

If in doubt : change it, absolutely agree !

Personally, I add blue locktight at the top and grease the rest. I like to live dangerously. I'm way more worried by the normal wear of the front direction assembly.

* Even the STaSIS Engineering DIY guide won't mention to replace them.

[ADCS]

Yea most people won't replace them. I bet most dealerships reuse them as well.

Just keep in mind that adding thread locker only prevents the bolt from backing out completely. It does not help the prevailing torque and definitely doesn't help the preload.

[Silveravant]

I have tried to buy these bolts at the dealer and they don't stock them. Do you really think they replace them?

I do think they should be replaced, and do, if I think ahead and order them ahead of time. If not a little blue locktite makes me feel better.

[jerseybrian]

I find it very hard to believe that anyone could pull these springs out without the use of a compressor. I finally succeeded by loosening the opposite side subframe, removing the subframe bolts on the side I was working, compressed the spring all the way with 3 coils, and I STILL had to pry it out and jump on the caliper to pull it out. Short of dropping the subframe to the ground I don't see how it's possible without a spring compressor, even with the sport suspension like I had. Also, nothing I read anywhere says anything about torque yield subframe bolts?? I torqued them all back down just fine and will check again when I adjust coilover height. Are you sure they're one time use? It's not like we're talking about head studs here...


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100% accurate. EXACTLY what I had to do. 3 spring clamp compressors, my 48" Snap On Pry bar and literally putting all of my weight into bending it down while another tech removed the spring. And we're both Porsche techs lol.

[JWhite1089]

Sooooo someone mentioned this earlier buuuuuuut I noticed after I lowered it more that the offset on my rear wheels are off by a noticeable amount. Is this because I loosened both sides at once or is there another possible explanation??

I never completely removed all 4 subframe bolts, only the rear two and left the front two completely tight. At one point I had LOOSENED all 4 but never took them all completely out. Does anyone have any clue how to fix this? Loosen it again and tap on one side until it looks better then get another alignment? Ugh


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[oVeRdOsE]

I find it very hard to believe that anyone could pull these springs out without the use of a compressor. I finally succeeded by loosening the opposite side subframe, removing the subframe bolts on the side I was working, compressed the spring all the way with 3 coils, and I STILL had to pry it out and jump on the caliper to pull it out. Short of dropping the subframe to the ground I don't see how it's possible without a spring compressor, even with the sport suspension like I had. Also, nothing I read anywhere says anything about torque yield subframe bolts?? I torqued them all back down just fine and will check again when I adjust coilover height. Are you sure they're one time use? It's not like we're talking about head studs here...


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Sorry to bring this thread, but something that bothers me.

I just look at my old pictures, and I remember why I didn't use compressor.

Both rear spring were broken. ( 85 000 km, stock B7...)

Sorry about this false info

[JWhite1089]

Sorry to bring this thread, but something that bothers me.

I just look at my old pictures, and I remember why I didn't use compressor.

Both rear spring were broken. ( 85 000 km, stock B7...)

Sorry about this false info

Hahahahaha well thanks for ensuring me that I am not absolutely in sane. I had those things compressed allll the way down and the subframe dropped and still had to pry those bitches out. And now my subframe isn't centered

[heateris]

I've read this type of spring compressor is the best for the rear springs.




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[jerseybrian]

I've read this type of spring compressor is the best for the rear springs.




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We have the same tool here at Porsche.

Do you have the link to that tool?

[Gsf1200m]

I am installing springs this weekend and I have this compressor. Has anybody used it on the Audi? I'm not sure if there is enough room in there to use it, I will have to test it out first.

[mtroxel]

Can't see the picture Gsf1200m.

[Gsf1200m]

That's weird, it shows up for me. So I don't know how to tell if it works or not. Here is the link I got the pic from https://www.tacomaworld.com/attachme...753-gif.52222/

[heateris]

We have the same tool here at Porsche.

Do you have the link to that tool?

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/macpherson-s...ing-compressor


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[Denio24]

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/macpherson-s...ing-compressor


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This spring compressor is similar to the VAG Tool. The claw type ones won't really suffice. I'm positive these have a better compression action.

[JayDog747]

I have used that same compressor for both my cars. It works great. You do have to maneuver, finagle it to take off the rear springs. It's well worth the money if you work on your own car.

[Charles.waite]

Sooooo someone mentioned this earlier buuuuuuut I noticed after I lowered it more that the offset on my rear wheels are off by a noticeable amount. Is this because I loosened both sides at once or is there another possible explanation??

I never completely removed all 4 subframe bolts, only the rear two and left the front two completely tight. At one point I had LOOSENED all 4 but never took them all completely out. Does anyone have any clue how to fix this? Loosen it again and tap on one side until it looks better then get another alignment? Ugh


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Yes. You can adjust some aspects of the rear suspension individually but ideally the subframe on the rear needs to be exactly centered to properly set the centerpoint so the rear tracks properly.

Simply loosening it is enough to allow the subframe to shift.

[JWhite1089]

Yes. You can adjust some aspects of the rear suspension individually but ideally the subframe on the rear needs to be exactly centered to properly set the centerpoint so the rear tracks properly.

Simply loosening it is enough to allow the subframe to shift.

Well I think now it's just getting to my head by it looks like the front is the same way on the same side but I never touched he front subframe. I'm gonna get my alignment checked again (lifetime alignment ftw) and then see if they'll line it up for me. I'll also get 4 new subframe bolts since that's apparently recommended. Just sucks I had no clue this was a possibility or I would have prevented it in the first place


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[Charles.waite]

Don't bother with the subframe bolts. I guarantee hundred of people on here have reused them without a single issue. You're fine.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Sure that makes it easier however good luck re-centering your rear subframe after doing that. Unless you want uneven wheel offsets and poor tire wear. The front has alignment holes to re-straighten it. I don't believe the rear does so it will be trial and error.
Do not loosen/remove the bolts from both sides at the same time.

I'm bumping this older thread as it's the only place I found mention of the rear subframe alignment holes. I've noted the front alignment fittings several times before, and there's a couple threads out there which talk about using them as a starting point before getting your car aligned. But only just a couple days ago did I take note of the very similar looking fittings on the rear sub-frame.

I came across this thread looking to get smart before tackling a rear spring swap out project. In several places I've read about dropping the sub-frame to ease rear spring removal, but I've also read about the likelihood of the subframe being mis-aligned if you do so. Is that problem solved by using the alignment holes to get the subframe back in the right spot?

[AudiB720TS]

I'm bumping this older thread as it's the only place I found mention of the rear subframe alignment holes. I've noted the front alignment fittings several times before, and there's a couple threads out there which talk about using them as a starting point before getting your car aligned. But only just a couple days ago did I take note of the very similar looking fittings on the rear sub-frame.

I came across this thread looking to get smart before tackling a rear spring swap out project. In several places I've read about dropping the sub-frame to ease rear spring removal, but I've also read about the likelihood of the subframe being mis-aligned if you do so. Is that problem solved by using the alignment holes to get the subframe back in the right spot?

I think the conclusion is to LOOSEN the subframe bolts AND use a spring compressor if there is access.

If you put the rear on jack stands, then put the floor jack under the wheel hub you can compress the spring. If then you can secure the spring in a compressed state (careful!) you can then remove the floor jack to let the wheel hub come down. At this point (or why not before) you can loosen the subframe bolts a bit. Then pry or pull out the spring and pray it doesn’t explode on you.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I think the conclusion is to LOOSEN the subframe bolts AND use a spring compressor if there is access.

I'm assuming that if you loosen all 4 sub-frame bolts, you've killed the alignment - it's no different than removing them entirely. But if the alignment loops built into the rear sub-frame work like the fronts, it should be no big deal to re-align. Conveniently, the factory lug wrench fits perfectly in the alignment fittings.

Again, I haven't done this yet - just trying to confirm that what I'm seeing is essentially the same as the front.

The alternative I've read is just loosening one side and then prying down on that side of the sub-frame. Obviously there's a limit to how much it'll drop doing it that way.

[AudiB720TS]

I'm assuming that if you loosen all 4 sub-frame bolts, you've killed the alignment - it's no different than removing them entirely. But if the alignment loops built into the rear sub-frame work like the fronts, it should be no big deal to re-align. Conveniently, the factory lug wrench fits perfectly in the alignment fittings.

Again, I haven't done this yet - just trying to confirm that what I'm seeing is essentially the same as the front.

The alternative I've read is just loosening one side and then prying down on that side of the sub-frame. Obviously there's a limit to how much it'll drop doing it that way.

I used a white marker and nothing was moved when tightening the bolts again. Don’t overthink this. Focus on how you will compress this POS springs instead.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I used a white marker and nothing was moved when tightening the bolts again. Don’t overthink this. Focus on how you will compress this POS springs instead.

Marking the location on the body before you turn a single bolt-head is indeed a good idea. I don't mind over-thinking; it's way better than under-thinking! And yea, compressing the spring is where all the "fun" is. I've got a couple weapons in the house for that.