12.210 at 112.88mph for B8.5 S4 DSG with Chipwerke Stage 2 and intake on pump 93 ...

[bhvrdr]

Well we finally got a bit of a break in the weather in S FL yesterday. It got down into the mid 60s finally so I headed out to PBIR and met with a few other forum members. It was great to see you guys, Hawkpilot6060 (B8 S4), B18b1ex (B8.5 S4) , Kyros (B8.5 S5), and Sciblades who had his RS7 there.

We had the opportunity to run a CW Stage 2 car with intake versus a Revo Stage 2 car with intake and cooling. Very good results for everyone.


It was absolutely packed last night so in 3 hours I was able to get in 2 runs.

My car:
Chipwerke S Stage 2 Piggy
AWE 2.266" Pulley
Injen Intake

That's it. No other power mods. Stock cooling. 1/2 tank of 93 fuel. Stock DSG that shifts at 6400rpm.

Best Run: 12.210 at 112.88mph




I'm sure we will get better ambients in FEB too so there is definitely more left in it but i'm very pleased with the results. For about $600 in mods I have a car running low 12s. Too cool.

Again, it was great seeing some other Audiziners there and great to meet you guys.

Mike

[jsh139]

Not bad at all!

[The Fat Kid]

Nice. How did you do against the Revo car?

[bhvrdr]

Thanks guys.

Same ET as the Revo Stage 2 and he trapped 1.5mph faster. His car had cooling and LW rotors but otherwise we had very similar mods (we both had intakes and stock exhaust). My 2015 DSG shifts a hair sooner than his 2010 car. Pretty evenly matched i'd say. I think his car had a 12.1 or better in it easily but we only go 2 runs in and we both ended up at 12.2. Both of us had also run (separately and previously) in crappier summer conditions and our best had both been 12.4x before that.

Mike

[B18b1ex]

Hey Mike,

Great run, I'm not sure you got my message but after they finally cleared the idiot charger that went into the sand, I managed to squeeze out a second run, a 12.77 @ 107. I'm not sure there much left in mine, but we will see if we ever get to log it. I was great seeing you guys.

[bhvrdr]

Hey Sean,

Thanks man. Im glad you came out even though it was crazy there. You're trap is looking better. We just need to log and find out whats going on. We'll get it.

Mike

[doug97gxe]

thats a sexy 60ft

[Thurston]

yeah those are very good results. Very good to when you consider how much more difficult it would be for the car to be flagged than a software flash or am I totally wrong about that?

[bhvrdr]

thats a sexy 60ft

Thanks man. I'm no expert in the 1/4 mile and had been just running whatever tire pressures I already had on the car (usually 38psi) but Hawk pointed out to me that we should drop our pressures and I dropped to 32psi and it did seem to make a difference. Thats my best 60ft so far.

yeah those are very good results. Very good to when you consider how much more difficult it would be for the car to be flagged than a software flash or am I totally wrong about that?

Piggies are extremely hard to detect. They dont modify the stock code. They dont alter the flash counter, the WSC code, the flash dates, and they wont trigger any "event logs" such as exceeding max rpm (if your tune alters the rev limits or removes the top speed governor) and wont show any torque, boost, etc values exceeded. They are pretty stealthy.

Mike

[The Fat Kid]

Thanks guys.

Same ET as the Revo Stage 2 and he trapped 1.5mph faster. His car had cooling and LW rotors but otherwise we had very similar mods (we both had intakes and stock exhaust). My 2015 DSG shifts a hair sooner than his 2010 car. Pretty evenly matched i'd say. I think his car had a 12.1 or better in it easily but we only go 2 runs in and we both ended up at 12.2. Both of us had also run (separately and previously) in crappier summer conditions and our best had both been 12.4x before that.

Mike

That makes your time look even better.

[Thurston]

Thanks man.
Piggies are extremely hard to detect. They dont modify the stock code. They dont alter the flash counter, the WSC code, the flash dates, and they wont trigger any "event logs" such as exceeding max rpm (if your tune alters the rev limits or removes the top speed governor) and wont show any torque, boost, etc values exceeded. They are pretty stealthy.

Mike

plus with the savings in money from not having to go have this installed one (probably significantly cheaper out of the box as well) could put the extra towards lw wheels and other items and get a little closer to 12.0.

What about the butt dyno compared to your friends Revo or w/e tuned car?

[GRUMPY-S4]

Not sure a Stage 2 piggy car is any less likely to get a TD1

[bhvrdr]

plus with the savings in money from not having to go have this installed one (probably significantly cheaper out of the box as well) could put the extra towards lw wheels and other items and get a little closer to 12.0.

What about the butt dyno compared to your friends Revo or w/e tuned car?

Hawkpilot's revo car looks to run really well. Keep in mind we both are running 93 octane with stock cats and exhaust in place (not that exhaust mods are huge but 15hp is 15hp).

The thing is that we are both likely running the maximum amount of boost and timing for our conditions so they are going to be relatively evenly matched. Little things like differences in DSG redline, weight differences (I weigh less than him, he had LW rotors, we may have had different fuel levels in the car, etc), tire compound and size differences, etc are what's a play. In addition, cooling is something I would consider next for my car if I keep it...but then it detracts from the OEM nature of my car. People touched the SC on each of our cars and his was apparently noticeably cooler. That would be a nice upgrade to do performance wise.

Both cars were running really well from what I could tell.

Mike

[Batman0424]

Mike,

I have been following your posts since you first experimented with the CW. I have used PBs before and always found them to be a nice, simple alternative to flashing the ECU.

I do have a couple questions regarding the Stage 2. I currently run the Stage 1 (CW Pro set to 5/1) and have been extremely happy with the performance (after resetting). No issues with shift lag (2015 S4 with DSG) and no codes. I notice with Stage 1, power is much more noticeable above 3-4k RPMs (I have read this as being normal for Stage 1 tunes, including CW). Now, onto the questions:

1) With the CW Stage 2, is there noticeable gains / smoothness at lower RPMs?
2) Do you have any concerns with Stage 2 with the CW? Any indicators that safety controls would not prevent engine / SC damage?
3) Where did you find the AWE pulley? I looked on their site and only see a full kit as an option.
4) For servicing, etc, do you have to remove the pulley or is this not really noticeable?

Thanks for the help..

[bhvrdr]

Mike,

I have been following your posts since you first experimented with the CW. I have used PBs before and always found them to be a nice, simple alternative to flashing the ECU.

I do have a couple questions regarding the Stage 2. I currently run the Stage 1 (CW Pro set to 5/1) and have been extremely happy with the performance (after resetting). No issues with shift lag (2015 S4 with DSG) and no codes. I notice with Stage 1, power is much more noticeable above 3-4k RPMs (I have read this as being normal for Stage 1 tunes, including CW). Now, onto the questions:

1) With the CW Stage 2, is there noticeable gains / smoothness at lower RPMs?
2) Do you have any concerns with Stage 2 with the CW? Any indicators that safety controls would not prevent engine / SC damage?
3) Where did you find the AWE pulley? I looked on their site and only see a full kit as an option.
4) For servicing, etc, do you have to remove the pulley or is this not really noticeable?

Thanks for the help..

Hi Batman (that feels really weird/good to say)

1. Adding the pulley just makes the car feel like there is more power everywhere, particularly down low. Its been a really nice addition.

2. My logs look excellent for safety. I'm very very pleased with how my car logs in the worst of the worst temperature and driving conditions. Every car is different though. If you run crap 91 octane your timing logs will look a lot different than anyone with 93 octane. All engine safeties continue to work perfectly with CW in place. The car will retard timing, will open the bypass valve, and will even go into limp mode if knock/temperature thresholds are met. I would always recommend data logging though with a modified car. Only data logs can tell you if YOUR car is running safe.

3. I just happened to find the AWE pulley used and had been looking at it bc thinking of going GIAC stage 2. If I were just going to buy a pulley, i'd buy the CTS pulley. Its a tiny hair smaller and should work the same. From what I am told they also now manufacture it WITHOUT their company logo on it and in black to look OEM.... finally! Confirm with them though.

http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/product...-4793-688.html

4. I leave the pulley on. Up to you. I dont have anymore dealership services scheduled between now and when I likely give up my car though so its not too much of an issue. It was really nice though when last month I had to have my car towed to the dealership. I removed the CW literally as the tow truck arrived and the car went into the dealership stock.


Mike

[Thurston]

Not sure a Stage 2 piggy car is any less likely to get a TD1

can you elaborate? because of a pulley? I mean you may be spot on I just think it's an issue we aught to figure out.

Really good numbers regardless for not messing w/ the ecu
Not sure one could run many different octanes w/ much success and / or e85 though w/ out a software flash.

[doug97gxe]

can you elaborate? because of a pulley? I mean you may be spot on I just think it's an issue we aught to figure out.
Really good numbers regardless for not messing w/ the ecu

it won't.. only way to tell is to physically measure the pulley and nobody is going to do that

[SteveYem]

I'm currently awaiting delivery of my Stage 2 tune package, but I really wish I could have made the CW 'S' box work for me. I just could not tolerate the non-linearity of when the box "kicked in", plus the slight hesitation that would happen a moment after getting on the throttle. I have to say, though, that the added torque was noticeable and I'm sure it would have decreased my drag strip time (had I ever cared to try that), while sacrificing the refinement of the stock engine output.

[Thurston]

I'm currently awaiting delivery of my Stage 2 tune package, but I really wish I could have made the CW 'S' box work for me. I just could not tolerate the non-linearity of when the box "kicked in", plus the slight hesitation that would happen a moment after getting on the throttle. I have to say, though, that the added torque was noticeable and I'm sure it would have decreased my drag strip time (had I ever cared to try that), while sacrificing the refinement of the stock engine output.

good stuff. I could give 2 shits about driving a 1/4 mile as well. I thought there were some dyno graphs in another thread, i may take a gander at the curve.

[ptper]

Great time. For those that spent a lot more only to be a few tenths quicker (if that), has probably got some of us shaking our heads, lol. So, the piggy, pulley, and intake...that it?

[fitzydude]

Hawkpilot's revo car looks to run really well. Keep in mind we both are running 93 octane with stock cats and exhaust in place (not that exhaust mods are huge but 15hp is 15hp).

The thing is that we are both likely running the maximum amount of boost and timing for our conditions so they are going to be relatively evenly matched. Little things like differences in DSG redline, weight differences (I weigh less than him, he had LW rotors, we may have had different fuel levels in the car, etc), tire compound and size differences, etc are what's a play. In addition, cooling is something I would consider next for my car if I keep it...but then it detracts from the OEM nature of my car. People touched the SC on each of our cars and his was apparently noticeably cooler. That would be a nice upgrade to do performance wise.

Both cars were running really well from what I could tell.

Mike

Did Hawkpilot's car have the Revo DSG tune? I'm skeptical on how well the Revo DSG tune performs.

Sidenote, If I set my Revo tune to the stock map do you think it would work with a CW?

[J.S4]

Nice results Mike!

I just happened to find the AWE pulley used and had been looking at it bc thinking of going GIAC stage 2. If I were just going to buy a pulley, i'd buy the CTS pulley. Its a tiny hair smaller and should work the same. From what I am told they also now manufacture it WITHOUT their company logo on it and in black to look OEM.... finally! Confirm with them though.

http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/product...-4793-688.html

I am running the CTS pulley and mine came in anodized black without a logo on it. However, I did order mine at around the same time Tony@EPL was doing his holiday group buy and I read in that thread that he requested an order of CTS pulleys without the company logos, so I'm not sure if I just got a pulley from that particular run or if that is now standard. I would double check with CTS before ordering.

My logs look excellent for safety. I'm very very pleased with how my car logs in the worst of the worst temperature and driving conditions. Every car is different though. If you run crap 91 octane your timing logs will look a lot different than anyone with 93 octane. All engine safeties continue to work perfectly with CW in place. The car will retard timing, will open the bypass valve, and will even go into limp mode if knock/temperature thresholds are met. I would always recommend data logging though with a modified car. Only data logs can tell you if YOUR car is running safe.

I have had very little time to log the car since I installed the pulley, but generally speaking the logs I have done look pretty good. Timing looks good and temps look good. The car pulls a little bit of timing up to -4 degrees on 93 winter blend. My ambients have been really good though...all sub -1000 DAs. I am bypassing up to 10%, but it's because I'm actually exceeding requested boost levels even with the attenuated signal. I have noticed the car leans out a bit on throttle tip in when going WOT for about 3/10ths, but looking back at my older logs I believe this was happening pre-pulley with the CW on 5-1 as well. Stock the car maintains lambda of 1.0 during tip in and enriches down from there. With the CW I seem to get up to 1.2 lambda before the ECU processes the feedback from the O2 sensor and adjusts fuel trims. I believe this has been discussed before in the locked thread.

I will probably switch over to a stage 2 flash at some point, but I'm waiting to see how the beta dual pulley setups run before I make a decision.

[bhvrdr]

Did Hawkpilot's car have the Revo DSG tune? I'm skeptical on how well the Revo DSG tune performs.

Sidenote, If I set my Revo tune to the stock map do you think it would work with a CW?

You have the Revo tune so I'm not sure why you'd try CW but if you were just wanting to run an experiment and SPS your car back to stock mode and run the CW and then run your car in Revo tuned mode that should work fine. It would be a cool experiment to do a "versus" comparison. One thing I have thought about doing is when I get the dual pulleys I may flash stage 2 and then run the CW on top of it to keep the bypass valve completely closed. I'm guessing there could be a lot of power there to be had.




Thanks for the feedback J.S4. I'm going to do the same and try out the dual pulley first. I noticed my actual boost is now meeting the target boost levels now too in these ambients. My target boost was at 1750mbar but now is down to 1650mbar in this cooler weather. The OEM computer clearly changes its boost targets based on load/ambients, etc. It's clear this car has a lot left in it because I am bypassing a bit of boost now in the cooler weather too.

Mike

[GTItoS4]

Impressive results. Are you still running the CW-S with the original (non-updated) map?

[Dudemans4]

I'm thinking about a chipwerkes for my wifes land rover disco sport. Overall what is your opinion on it and who can I contact about it

[BlownOne]

Nice!! That 60' is outstanding if you are on street tires...my caddy usually cuts 1.6 on mt drag radials!

Will

[BlownOne]

I'm currently awaiting delivery of my Stage 2 tune package, but I really wish I could have made the CW 'S' box work for me. I just could not tolerate the non-linearity of when the box "kicked in", plus the slight hesitation that would happen a moment after getting on the throttle.

Is this a common issue?

[Tom C]

Mike,

Nice work! All your time and methodical approach to everything is huge benefit to the community. It is much appreciated!

[bhvrdr]

Impressive results. Are you still running the CW-S with the original (non-updated) map?

I'm using the "stage 2" map now. It make the actual boost read even lower to work with the pulley and keep the bypass closed.


Dudeman, i'd just contact the chipwerke guy, Murat. I dont know now they work for turbo applications but he seems really cool about returns as far as not charging restocking fees and being no questions asked.

Tom, thanks so much man. I appreciate the kind words.

Mike

[LINDW4LL]

Is this a common issue?

Quite a few people have experienced a hesitation after shifting, but there are plenty that don't have the issue. Seems to be hit or miss.For those that experienced it, changing to a less aggressive map/setting on the CW sometimes fixed it.

It's the only real drawback of the Chipwerke. Worth a shot though.

[tgsweat]

I'm currently awaiting delivery of my Stage 2 tune package, but I really wish I could have made the CW 'S' box work for me. I just could not tolerate the non-linearity of when the box "kicked in", plus the slight hesitation that would happen a moment after getting on the throttle. I have to say, though, that the added torque was noticeable and I'm sure it would have decreased my drag strip time (had I ever cared to try that), while sacrificing the refinement of the stock engine output.

This. the power was great but it sucks that i couldn't get around the non-linearity and hesitation after every shift. This set up saves lots of money over other tunes.

[jokingjimmy]

Hey, Mike,

If you talk to Murat, can you tell him to reply to my emails and phone calls? Trying to return my CW or change it to fit the wife's car depending on his answers, but absolutely no response from CW since the week after Christmas. At this point I'm probably going to return it without support or response from him.

Thanks man!

[bhvrdr]

Hi Jimmy,
Yeah, I've only emailed with him a half dozen times. Last time was when I got the stage 2 maps. Never tried his phone number. I use the "info@xxxx" email address whenever I have initiated contact and he has responded within 24 hours. Weird. Let me know how it works out.
Mike

[ojmcneill]

Mike
Great results buddy. I'll say, every time I see a new post from you in regards to studying and testing your chipwerkes box, I get all giggly remembering when it first came out and you took the plunge. All the a holes who came out of the woodwork that would wine and complain, lol. I love it that you've had such great success. I just need to get off my cheap tail feathers and order one already.

Thanks for putting all the time into this thing brother and great work.
O

[shoe3k]

This. the power was great but it sucks that i couldn't get around the non-linearity and hesitation after every shift. This set up saves lots of money over other tunes.

I get slight hesitation (car is stock) going WOT in all gears where it shifts, hesitates, drops 100rpm, and continues.
This is exactly how my dsg behaves in the video below. Starts at 12 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRM-N-kfIDY

Is this the type of non-linearity you guys are talking about? If so, I will probably take the plunge with the Chipwerke + pulley.

[tgsweat]

I get slight hesitation (car is stock) going WOT in all gears where it shifts, hesitates, drops 100rpm, and continues.
This is exactly how my dsg behaves in the video below. Starts at 12 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRM-N-kfIDY

Is this the type of non-linearity you guys are talking about? If so, I will probably take the plunge with the Chipwerke + pulley.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am0Qa-2Ow8E

This video shows more of the behavior but mine was slightly worse.

http://youtu.be/Am0Qa-2Ow8E

Its like power is cut for about a half second after every shift when using part throttle. Its more pronounced when you are actually driving, but the video gives you an idea.

When i say non-linear, i mean the power is input is not smooth. After about 3.5k rpm, there is a surge of power suddenly...which is not a bad thing, its kind of a fun feeling. I just prefer the smooth power input, like how the car feels stock. I went with GIAC and the car is butter smooth during a pull....but at a higher cost of course, but it was well worth it to me. Not knocking the chipwerke, just didn't work well with my car. Lots of people have success, like in this post.

[Hawkpilot6060]

Mike,
That was a good night, wish it was not as crowded and the 1 hour delay did not happen. Your chip works definitely seems to be working well! I ran a 12.203 with a not best 60 foot time. I am headed back out Wednesday and hope for an 11.9xxx! My revo tune seems to be doing fine, no TCU tune. Take care! And thank Carlo for the video! That new Taurus sho ran a 12.6.

[European90]

Very good Run Mike