B5 S4 Track Set up

[patticus21]

Guys, im just starting the build on my 2002 S4 that will be used primarily for track days. My first concern is driving position. With the stock seat and all its electrics, I sit way too tall to feel like I have a safe and comfortable track driving position. The steering wheel's pitch is all the way up and all the out...if I push the wheel in further, it just gets lower and lower into my lap. My big question is, will a nice low seat panned racing seat (that I have to have on runners as I am sharing the car) lower me enough from stock that you think the driving position will improve? Secondly, has anyone done any mods to the steering height adjustment to be able to raise it a couple inches from the highest stock height? All this would go a long way to improving my confidence and safety on the track knowing that I have proper control.

Thanks

Future upgrades include a short shifter, suspension upgrades and some track tires...at least for the first few times out.

[Drehmoment]

You can mount a racing shell on the floor if you want......technically you can modify the steering column but I am sure it is way beyond your $$$ willingness.....to put it into proper perspective, Ayrton Senna was killed as a result of a modified steering columns failure

The B5 S4 makes a poor track car, there are many much more capable budget candidates available.

[rani_aridi]

Sorry I'm not able to help as I don't know what you could do about the seating position, although I'm sure a solution is possible. I am just chiming in because I'm tired of people saying this can't be made into a capable track car^^
I understand there are better platforms to start with, but there always is.

Here's a link that goes through the b5's racing history.
http://www.audiworld.com/news/01/s4_.../content.shtml

[Drehmoment]

Unless you have rose colored fan girl glasses the factory in disguise B5 track record is nothing to write home about ...Dodge, Porsche or Chevy gave a much,much higher pedigree on the format that the B5 ran,period.

To get to the point, bring the most radical B5 S/RS4 to a POC club race in Willow Springs and it will get spanked like a red headed step child by 30 to 40 year old 911's or 914,s...the end.

[patticus21]

I dont necessarily want to edit the steering column, but I could use an inch or two more in height from the steering wheel. It stops with some room left at the top, just wondered if anyone had modded that before. Otherwise, hoping the racing seat drops me down into a slightly better position...

[james 408]

lol, dismissing the above responses.

yes, you can lower the seat, and that should solve your steering column position issue (I have my column adjusted all the way down with a racing bucket on sliders). you should be able to get it how you like, however with sliding seat rails generally you're forced to sit slightly higher than if you'd just bolted it to the floor.

skip the short shifter, that does nothing for you whatsoever.

edit: okay i'll join in. bring whatever 30-40 year old porsche you want, any day, any time. bring it.

[patticus21]

Ill take my rose colored glasses and sit happily in my Audi, thanks. Audi forums...pushing Porsches?... no thanks.

[rguil]

I have FIA approved sparco grids in my stripped out b5. it lowered me a bunch to what i think is a great driving position and holds me in a lot better than the "sport seats" ever did. One of my favorite mods. Im 6'2" and i have it on a rail with the base mount adapter you get from sparco. Overall a nice setup, i can upload pics if you would like

[rguil]

You can mount a racing shell on the floor if you want......technically you can modify the steering column but I am sure it is way beyond your $$$ willingness.....to put it into proper perspective, Ayrton Senna was killed as a result of a modified steering columns failure

The B5 S4 makes a poor track car, there are many much more capable budget candidates available.

how do i stop myself from dieing from a modded steering column? i plan to do this mod. is there a safe way?

[patticus21]

lol, dismissing the above responses.

yes, you can lower the seat, and that should solve your steering column position issue (I have my column adjusted all the way down with a racing bucket on sliders). you should be able to get it how you like, however with sliding seat rails generally you're forced to sit slightly higher than if you'd just bolted it to the floor.

skip the short shifter, that does nothing for you whatsoever.

Excellent, thanks for the sensible answer and advice. I wont waste money on the short shifter.

[james 408]

the failure in senna's case came from the collaposable steering column. through the firewall, the steering column is designed to break in the event of a crash so as not to force the shaft out the wheel and into the driver in the event of an accident. Sennas, if i recall correctly either failed or didn't have a collapsable one.

[somedude]

the failure in senna's case came from the collaposable steering column. through the firewall, the steering column is designed to break in the event of a crash so as not to force the shaft out the wheel and into the driver in the event of an accident. Sennas, if i recall correctly either failed or didn't have a collapsable one.

I thought he got hit in the head by his RF tire when it broke off.

[james 408]

just refreshed my memory. there's a bunch of different theories. he passed out before the crash, the steering linkage took a dive, yada yada. I think most agree that it was a steering column breakage from a recent modification; aka steering broke before he even left the track. you tube 'Senna: the truth behind imola' if you want to dive into it.\\

edit: okay there's a bunch of illuminati conspiracy in that video, but you can cross reference it if you care enough.

[Drehmoment]

lol, dismissing the above responses.

yes, you can lower the seat, and that should solve your steering column position issue (I have my column adjusted all the way down with a racing bucket on sliders). you should be able to get it how you like, however with sliding seat rails generally you're forced to sit slightly higher than if you'd just bolted it to the floor.

skip the short shifter, that does nothing for you whatsoever.

edit: okay i'll join in. bring whatever 30-40 year old porsche you want, any day, any time. bring it.

Maybe you should investigate a little bit.....some of those cars are tubed....30 years is 930 / 935 clone territory, check out their track times , it will severely bruise your ego.

POC = Porsche Owner Club

[Peter1.8t]

Maybe you should investigate a little bit.....some of those cars are tubed....30 years is 930 / 935 clone territory, check out their track times , it will severely bruise your ego.

POC = Porsche Owner Club

They are fast cars but only as fast as the driver. James has a very well built b5 and a lot of seat time. You should check some of his videos, I'd bet he would get a few a run for their money.

[gmdiluca]

They are fast cars but only as fast as the driver. James has a very well built b5 and a lot of seat time. You should check some of his videos, I'd bet he would get a few a run for their money.

This^


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[james 408]

Shsh. let me bait him into a bet first.

[james 408]

"at sears, kevin buckler and another world best type driver, ran 5 turbos at sears on street tires. the best lap time was in the 1:55 range, with the average lap being in the 1:57 range. the most "undrivable" turbo , was the 959! "

Oh I got this. Feel free to show up on your keyboard conjured 959 to boot.

[kramrs2]

"at sears, kevin buckler and another world best type driver, ran 5 turbos at sears on street tires. the best lap time was in the 1:55 range, with the average lap being in the 1:57 range. the most "undrivable" turbo , was the 959! "

Oh I got this. Feel free to show up on your keyboard conjured 959 to boot.

do you have a build thread?
and can you share the movies cited above?

thx

[UCFQuattroguy]

I just had a random thought:

I wonder if those who don't have any faith in a B5's ability to be a track car...
1. Have ever set one up 'properly' with good spring rates and dampers. (No off the shelf coil-overs are going to cut it. Most setups have crap spring rates....and that's the cheapest part to get right!) The relationship between front and rear roll stiffness is VERY VERY VERY important in any car for establishing a good steady-state balance. Getting the dampers/shocks valved right will be key for the transitional balance/traits.

2. Actually have the chops behind the wheel to extract the most out of anything on 4-wheels.

An anecdote:
I ran for YEARS with Vogtland 'Club Spec' springs with Bilstein 'sport' dampers, H-Sport bars, etc. After going to a pseudo-custom setup on AST dampers and 750/1000 spring rates and 034MS rear bar paired with OE A4 front bar, my eyes were opened wide. All of a sudden, most of the handling traits associated with an Audi had disappeared. The car was super responsive and would rotate the rear a bit on command without being unpredictable. The car would actually turn-in! :-p

Half-ass your setup and you'll get out exactly what you put into it. This applies to any car.

That is all. Carry on...

[88ninety9]

do you have a build thread?
and can you share the movies cited above?

thx

If I'm not mistaken......that's james' b5 in front of the s2000 completely destroying it (obviously a well balanced car, s2000 are very capable). Please correct me if I'm wrong
https://youtu.be/4W8PaXv5fm0

[killerkali]

If I'm not mistaken......that's james' b5 in front of the s2000 completely destroying it (obviously a well balanced car, s2000 are very capable). Please correct me if I'm wrong
https://youtu.be/4W8PaXv5fm0

His s4 probably has double the power it is straight pulling away from the s2k. Personally I don't find that impressive. Take it to a track and see what you can do.

[Peter1.8t]

His s4 probably has double the power it is straight pulling away from the s2k. Personally I don't find that impressive. Take it to a track and see what you can do.

If you watched the video and didn't find that impressive then idk what to tell you. Look up the lap times that the s2k ran recently.

[Sumo337]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...38-My-S4-build

My car is a track car.

[coolgraymemo]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...38-My-S4-build

My car is a track car.

What makes it a track car?

[Sumo337]

It was used only for tracks.

[Quattro_The_Dog]

You can mount a racing shell on the floor if you want......technically you can modify the steering column but I am sure it is way beyond your $$$ willingness.....to put it into proper perspective, Ayrton Senna was killed as a result of a modified steering columns failure

The B5 S4 makes a poor track car, there are many much more capable budget candidates available.

This guy again...

[88ninety9]

His s4 probably has double the power it is straight pulling away from the s2k. Personally I don't find that impressive. Take it to a track and see what you can do.

Really? Maybe you weren't watching the road or the speedo in the s2k. It's apparent that he's running well over 60 through there, and pulling on the s2k through all the curves. That's extremely impressive given the natural handling of the s4 vs the handling of the s2k

[james 408]

His s4 probably has double the power it is straight pulling away from the s2k. Personally I don't find that impressive. Take it to a track and see what you can do.

first off: after that 'not about horsepower' the audi tapped its brakes and stayed off throttle til he caught up. 2nd, limited to 50% throttle to keep the audi in the picture frame. 3rd, the car has set fastest time a great many times, against some very high HP and lightweight track cars.

trying to track down some drifting footage of it (which of course it also can't do).

happy to see you grab whatever stage3 or higher horsepower car, and give that s2k a go. you'll see just how little horsepower matters.

[killerkali]

first off: after that 'not about horsepower' the audi tapped its brakes and stayed off throttle til he caught up. 2nd, limited to 50% throttle to keep the audi in the picture frame. 3rd, the car has set fastest time a great many times, against some very high HP and lightweight track cars.

trying to track down some drifting footage of it (which of course it also can't do).

happy to see you grab whatever stage3 or higher horsepower car, and give that s2k a go. you'll see just how little horsepower matters.

Oh i know horsepower doesn't mean anything. I race bikes on the track,used to pass 1000cc in the corners nonstop on a 250. Just my opinion, but your b5 clearly has a lot more power and plenty of $$ in quality parts and a proper setup, again I just don't find it that impressive to be pulling away from an S2k. Would be good to see an equally setup s2k on a real track to see how it would fare. Not trying to offend anyone lol just my 2c!!!

[james 408]

1:55 on sears point/sonoma (the times i listed above for the porsche turbos is the same course, which included a 993 and 996 i believe). the s2k was also on street tires. trust me, he's fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhdyOwe22M0

edit: also he's on ohlins TTX, i believe square stanced 255's, track pads & alignment, brand new star specs (the audi was on federal RSRs), amuse bumper, hood, custom tune, intake exhaust, BBK, yada yada. car's no slouch either

[Drehmoment]

I would encourage B5S4's to attend.....after you pass safety etc etc.....you are up against lap times like that https://porscheclubracing.org/wp-con...eca-051715.pdf or my fav Willow Springs https://porscheclubracing.org/wp-con...rds-051715.pdf

Bring it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uxsC9uEMJg

[james 408]

yeah, we're aware. there's no question I would have some good matches in the field with full race cars on slicks with professional drivers. Doesn't disprove the nonsense you spouted above.

and those are 993's bra, with more money in it than a stage 3 s4, and that's before all the carbon fiber and race goodies they have. check your facts and e-thug somewhere else, or come race me yourself.

[Drehmoment]

LOl is that your way out ? Some good matches....I said bring your midnite racing skills, put on some Chinese KOXXX, slicks, etc ... bring it, even GMG would laugh at you. BTw, show me some more ignorance.....some of those cars haves titles from the 70/80's......and are not 993's...check mate.

race you ? LOLO, I used to compete at that club....now go spread your racing terror on some public street.

[james 408]

come race me e-racer. whatever car you want. you've not only backed off your initial claims, but have gone to much newer cars with professional drivers and full race builds in order to compete with some amateur with a b5s4. Scared much?

[Drehmoment]

Only a lib from CA would claim "newer " cars when in fact some the chassis are several decades old. Now get the go pro and "drift" on public streets, wuf wuf.

[rguil]

what are we areguing about exactly?

[james 408]

that s4's can't be track cars. it didn't deserve a response to begin with, but now i just want to race the guy, and have my winning be a heartfealt apology about being an e-bully and apologize to myself and the forum for propogating nonsense and generally being a douche

i mean has this guy even tried to buy a fast porsche on a budget? for 10k you get a beat up piece of crap that's one faulty cylindar liner away from a 20k repair bill. To suggest these porsche cars as budget racers is absurd. then to claim that they're far cheaper to race and faster than a b5s4 is equally if not more absurd.

[Drehmoment]

Let me throw you another bone wuf wuf

[james 408]

not sure who has this on their sig, but it applies here so I'm stealing it:

don't argue with an idiot, because they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience