Brakes for a noob

[Ernie1060]

Hello all,

I searched the forum and got great info but not everything...

So I got the light, time to change the brakes. Take to the dealership and they told me the front pads and rotors should be replaced, rears are ok... Quote me $1,400.00+ for the front...

So my plan is to buy the parts myself (front and rear, might as well), and have an indie shop install.

So I'm thinking about going stoptech rotors, hawk pads... but then I came across R1 Concepts.

Does anyone have any experience with R1 Concepts? Specifically the Premier Series? They seem like a slightly more affordable alternative.

Lastly, I see on certain sites that there are "pad wear sensors" for sale with brake kits and some don't... is this something I need to buy?

Thanks for any advice guys,

Ernie

[Hofahome]

I do not have experience with those but just changed my front/rear brakes last week. My stock brakes squeeled like crazy in the cold and left brake dust everywhere. $1400 is a joke. I bought mine from ECS. Got Geomet slotted with akebono ceramics. Very happy so far although the ceramics do not seem to bite as hard initally. I read some bad reviews on here about the hawk pads, but can't recall what.

[SDV325]

Never go back to that stealership, WOW. I was quoted $1200CAD for the front pads and rotors here in Canada where everything is much much more expensive.

+1 for ECS parts. For pads, can never go wrong with Hawks

[BoostEasy]

You need Vag-com VCDS cable to retract the rear caliper parking brake if you do it yourself.

I have Akebono ceramics. They definitely have a bit less initial bite vs stock but that's most because stock, IMO, has substantial initial bite for a street pad. The Akebono's are basically very linear and what you'd get on a Camry etc. Very little dust, happy wheels. Took a day or three for me to get used to the lack of initial bite but now it's fine.

[BJYorko]

I really like my akebono pads. Virtually no brake dust and they provide smooth braking and no noise (on stock rotors) all the way through. There is a very small difference in initial bite vs stock, but after a day or 2, that's unnoticeable and you adapt.

I will say though that when I need new pads and rotors, I will be going the ECS route (most likely 2-piece) for rotors and also stainless steel lines while I'm in there. I will keep the akebono pads though as I am very happy with them.

I don't track my car so an "upgraded" brake system for a street car is all I need. No sense in spending the money on a big brake kit as I wouldn't see the benefits of it.

[MrFunk]

$1400 is rediculous for OEM rotors and pads. You can get OEM parts for $400 bucks and install is 2 hours on that at most... should be out the door around $600 - $700.

I've gone through several different OE set ups for pads and rotors... ECS has many options... I've done the Akebono pads + Geomet slotted and drilled rotors. Then I moved to the 2 piece light weight rotors and redstuff pads.
I have settled on their 2 piece light weight rotors and RedStuff pads.I find the redstuff pads to have almost as low dust (virtually none after break in perior) but a better initial bite vs aquebono. I'm also running SS brake lines which firm up the pedal nicely.
You really notice the weight difference with the 2 piece rotors...

[Ernie1060]

Great info guys. I do plan on doing some track days with my car (i've done a bunch on the bike so its time to get the car out there).

So it looks like I should really consider the ECS rotors and whatever pads are going to do the job during a few track days.

Would you all say ECS over stoptech?

I see that no one has any experience with R1 concepts so I will not be the first to explore them.

And yeah, in Palo Alto the shop rate was over 200/hour... i got the quote and was literally laughing out of the dealership (crying on the inside).

[MrFunk]

Stoptech makes great rotors. If you like the brand and the price is right then go for it... If you are going with OE size and OE weight then I'd say they are all going to perform about the same. If you are tracking and want a bit more cooling then you may consider slotted or drilled rotors... or if you like that styling. But if you are getting OE size, weight and regular disk (not drilled or slotted) rotors then I'd say most are relatively evenly matched.

ECS Tuning also sells other brands other than their own - https://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-B8_S4...raking/Rotors/

[Jreod]

You need Vag-com VCDS cable to retract the rear caliper parking brake if you do it yourself.

I have Akebono ceramics. They definitely have a bit less initial bite vs stock but that's most because stock, IMO, has substantial initial bite for a street pad. The Akebono's are basically very linear and what you'd get on a Camry etc. Very little dust, happy wheels. Took a day or three for me to get used to the lack of initial bite but now it's fine.

VAGCOM is needed to retract the p-brake?? Damn. Didn't know. Does this apply to all Audis? I've never done a brake pad job on my Audi because I've been too afraid - though I am slightly mechanically adept. But now, I will definitely not attempt this as I don't have VAGCOM.


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[GeoJoe]

VAGCOM is needed to retract the p-brake?? Damn. Didn't know. Does this apply to all Audis? I've never done a brake pad job on my Audi because I've been too afraid - though I am slightly mechanically adept. But now, I will definitely not attempt this as I don't have VAGCOM.


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Either that or the much cheaper, potentially more versatile Carista dongle and app. It will release the rear parking brake for service. It has been doing this for free for the past few months. Not sure about current in-app purchases.

[14S4GWM]

Either that or the much cheaper, potentially more versatile Carista dongle and app. It will release the rear parking brake for service. It has been doing this for free for the past few months. Not sure about current in-app purchases.

Very true but I think you need to be on beta for that to work.

[b8audis4]

I would not recommend going to the dealer for brake work. It is embarrassing what I paid last time for just front rotors and rear pads on my S4. I would recommend going to a shop that specializes in Audi's. I bought ECS Geomet Slotted Rotors, Hawk HPS 5.0 Pads, ECS Stainless Lines, and Pentosin fluid, should make for a nice upgrade compared to stock. Also got the rotor set screws.

I bought the pad wear sensor because when they are in there, I would rather have it. It saves me the hassle and is only $30. You only need to replace it when the light comes on, so in your case yes you need it.

[cspcrx]

I got a very similar quote as you from my dealer and when I challenged them on it they said the tech gave them the wrong information and the quote came down to $800 and some change.

I went ahead and picked up ECS two piece rotors and Akebono pads. I do not track my car but less weight equals quicker car and the pads will make less of a mess than the stockers. I am going to do the install myself. So for less than what they wanted I got far better parts and some added looks and performance.

[Thurston]

Is it normal to have to replace the front rotors after the pads get low? Obviously it's a case by case thing but the dealership seems to knee-jerk decide that they always aught to be replaced w/ the pads. How can one tell if they are actually warped or not? I think $1400 is very much in line w/ what Audi charges for the work they quoted but I agree, i'd look around to see what's available aftermarket wise.

[cspcrx]

Seems the word is that on these cars you do the rotors and pads together. You could try and turn them I guess if you wanted to save a few bucks more but for the cost of OEM blanks may not be worth the risk. I am with you though. This is the first car I have owned where you can not turn the rotors. I have had cars go through 3 or more sets of pads on the same rotors.

[ATX_S4]

FWIW my pad sensor went off around 33kmi and I replaced front and rear pads only with Textar brand pads and kept the original rotors. I didn't do any bedding process or machine the rotors and I haven't had problems since (I'm nearing 40kmi now). The rotors still appear to be in good condition.

[XLR8 Craig]

It really depends how the rotor looks sometimes it is savable with a good bed in process. Turning them is not a recommended practice this day in age so I do not recommend doing this. Brakes are very important so do not take the low road.. but being reasonable on costs and spending is also something we always take into account. Evaluate the situation and decide from there. If anyone feels unsure, call us we can help you.

We offer StopTech and Centric replacement parts, we also sell and install Textar and Akebono pads/rotors as well with great sucess.

Thanks,

Greg

[Ernie1060]

For the guys that are going w/ ECS rotors... are these the ones that are approx $200, or the floating hub thing that run $500??

Also, what is "bedding"?

[mavz]

For the guys that are going w/ ECS rotors... are these the ones that are approx $200, or the floating hub thing that run $500??

Also, what is "bedding"?

Bedding in brakes simply put is mating the pads to the rotors

If you wanna read more about it, here stoptech's site: http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...ake-pad-bed-in

On a side note, I just had akebono's and jhm's 2 piece rotors installed on Friday, didn't have a chance to drive other than bedding them in on my way home.

[Ricky_C_08-11]

I just replaced my brakes last Saturday. Here's a small RANT. First things first: R1 Concept is a JOKE with their turnaround time and customer service. I ordered their Premier Series cross drilled/slotted rotors and pad kit for all four corners on December 6th. After 1 week of not receiving an email or phone call status I called myself and was informed that they were waiting for their shipment of rotors and that it would be shipped shortly after they receive them. about a week after I receive a phone call from them telling me that due to the veins on the vents I could only get cross drilled or slotted, but not both. (Keep in mind this is now roughly 4 weeks after my brake light came on) So I told the guy I preferred Slotted. So now i have to wait for them to slot the rotors so they can ship them out. My brakes were almost metal to metal so I called R1 to cancel the order and bought them the kit from a local performance shop that specialises in brakes. The business is called 88 Rotors. Spent roughly the same price, it included the brake sensor and I received the whole kit in 2 days.

For Audi's that have Electrinic Parking Brake (EPB) you can bypass the VAGCOM by removing the unplugging the harness, 2 torx screws on the sides of the parking motors on the rear brakes and removing the motors from the caliper. It will allow you to compress the caliper pistons. Once you are done installing the rear brake pads just install the EPB Motors back on and proceed.

Here is a video to explain bedding in rotors and a process you can use:
https://youtu.be/Pi4BAuMjpbE

I hope this helps you

[Ernie1060]

Bedding in brakes simply put is mating the pads to the rotors

If you wanna read more about it, here stoptech's site: http://www.stoptech.com/technical-su...ake-pad-bed-in

On a side note, I just had akebono's and jhm's 2 piece rotors installed on Friday, didn't have a chance to drive other than bedding them in on my way home.

Mavz, awesome read!! What did you do to bed in your set up? How do I not screw up the brakes?

[Ernie1060]

I just replaced my brakes last Saturday. Here's a small RANT. First things first: R1 Concept is a JOKE with their turnaround time and customer service. I ordered their Premier Series cross drilled/slotted rotors and pad kit for all four corners on December 6th. After 1 week of not receiving an email or phone call status I called myself and was informed that they were waiting for their shipment of rotors and that it would be shipped shortly after they receive them. about a week after I receive a phone call from them telling me that due to the veins on the vents I could only get cross drilled or slotted, but not both. (Keep in mind this is now roughly 4 weeks after my brake light came on) So I told the guy I preferred Slotted. So now i have to wait for them to slot the rotors so they can ship them out. My brakes were almost metal to metal so I called R1 to cancel the order and bought them the kit from a local performance shop that specialises in brakes. The business is called 88 Rotors. Spent roughly the same price, it included the brake sensor and I received the whole kit in 2 days.

For Audi's that have Electrinic Parking Brake (EPB) you can bypass the VAGCOM by removing the unplugging the harness, 2 torx screws on the sides of the parking motors on the rear brakes and removing the motors from the caliper. It will allow you to compress the caliper pistons. Once you are done installing the rear brake pads just install the EPB Motors back on and proceed.

Here is a video to explain bedding in rotors and a process you can use:
https://youtu.be/Pi4BAuMjpbE

I hope this helps you

Whoa!! 1) I'm sorry that happened with R1, and 2) thanks for the heads up. I'm glad you got a better deal.

Thanks for the video too. Good thing I didn't mess up my brakes.

[mavz]

Mavz, awesome read!! What did you do to bed in your set up? How do I not screw up the brakes?

A couple hard stops from 80ish down to about 40 on a relatively clear highway

[GeoJoe]

All noobs should read these:

Bedding in brakes..."Make eight to ten near-stops from 60mph to about 20 mph. Do it HARD by pressing the brakes firmly, but do not lock the wheels or engage ABS."

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

If you track....

http://www.zeckhausen.com/avoiding_brake_judder.htm

[Ernie1060]

All noobs should read these:

Bedding in brakes..."Make eight to ten near-stops from 60mph to about 20 mph. Do it HARD by pressing the brakes firmly, but do not lock the wheels or engage ABS."

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

If you track....

http://www.zeckhausen.com/avoiding_brake_judder.htm

So... where and how do I do this?

Say I get the brakes in... but I'm at a shop. So I need to get to a place where I can do the 60 to 20mph, but there will be lights / stops signs...

How do you all do this?

[onlyaudis]

braking hard and smooth a bunch of times from like 40 to 10 works too, and is easier to do on a not so busy secondary road. I have done this successfully many times. the key is to be smooth and firm and not to actually come to a complete stop. let them cool for a minute or so before doing the next stop. you want to bed them, but don't want to glaze the pads over.

I just changed over the pads to the Akebonos on mine, and have to bed them in today--was pouring rain here yesterday, so planning on doing it today. I did not like how dirty and grabby the Textar pads were--was hard to not be jerky on stops, and you might as well run black wheels. Have run the Akebono Euro ceramics on a half dozen cars very successfully--good street pads, good linear stopping power under most all road driving conditions, quiet, pretty dust free, and not hard on rotors.

best deal I found was on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o00_s00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ilpage_o00_s00

[GeoJoe]

So... where and how do I do this?

Say I get the brakes in... but I'm at a shop. So I need to get to a place where I can do the 60 to 20mph, but there will be lights / stops signs...

How do you all do this?

Find a county road and be patient for clear traffic. Try not to use brakes too much at red lights, turns, etc until you heat them up. Finally, don't use your parking brake after this process until things have cooled down.

[eurotic]

So... where and how do I do this?

Say I get the brakes in... but I'm at a shop. So I need to get to a place where I can do the 60 to 20mph, but there will be lights / stops signs...

How do you all do this?

Don't be too freaked out about bedding the brakes, it's easy to do and until you do it you just won't have optimal braking performance. So drive nice and casual until you get yourself to a nice long stretch of road (read: highway) with no traffic so you can do as the links/posts above say. Take the car up to 60-80 mph then brake as hard as you can while avoiding engaging ABS or coming to a complete stop. Do this several times. If you do it right you will notice the brakes will start grabbing harder as they heat up then start to fade as you start overheating them. You will smell the brake pads...this is normal. But the biggest part of this is that once you do the required runs that you DO NOT hold your foot on the brake while the wheels are stopped (you shouldn't be stopping yet anyway) and you don't put on the parking brake. You just continue down the highway for a good long drive and use your brakes as little as possible. The idea is to bring the brakes back down in temp. The reason you don't come to a complete stop and why you don't hold your car stationary with the brake/ebrake is because it will leave deposits on the rotor if everything is really hot and then you will feel what people call "warped rotors" or pulsing. The rotors are not warped but have a spot on them with thicker deposits that when the pad comes in contact with that one spot the grip changes and you feel it through the pedal.

Watch the different videos, the processes might vary slightly depending but the basic premise is the same. Oh and don't do it with the significant other in the car...I did that once and she felt nauseous afterwards. I did about a dozen runs from 10 - 100 kph and accelerating hard in between, basically stay in second gear (manual tans) go WOT to redline, then hard on the brakes until RPM drop to 1500 and repeat. Sometimes I've done the same using third gear to go higher speeds depending on pads.

[onlyaudis]

Finally, don't use your parking brake after this process until things have cooled down.

forgot to mention this, and it is important. after a hot bed in process, don't want to use the parking brake!

just did mine, and I can tell already i will end up liking the Akebonos again better than the stock pads on this car as well. I hate it when brakes are really grabby on initial bite, its hard to controll them. Also, when you are trying to pull into a parking stall, the car wants to jerk at even light pressure and it makes it look like you are just learning how to drive.

I also have training to drive VIP's and still do on occasion--you need a super smooth braking system for that type of driving.