Look what I found, AMS Downpipes

[GameBreaker]

Ok, I don't know who has seen this yet but I thought I would post. Every now and then I try and take a look for any updates as they are in my neck of the woods plus I know what AMS can to do a car.

Like many others I have been watching the AMS thread, but on a recent search I hit these beauties. Google FTW!

The first is the dyno run



And then for what you really want to see. The stock vs AMS downpipes. There are other pictures out there, but I must say they are impressive.



Hopefully this thread will get them to peek in more around here, as I know I'm not the only one looking forward to their products.

[madyspop]

Very nice indeed.

[mwmaroney1]

Looks nice, anyone actually have them installed?

[B5SilverS4]

I am interested for sure!

[GameBreaker]

I just realized something.

The Roc Euro car that ran recently with the APR tune, 3" Milltek catless downpipes and catback, and the Roc Euro intake Dyno'd

441 WHP / 527 TQ

Not bad, but after rewatching the AMS clip it looks like it was just the tune, and their catted downpipes.

517 WHP / 586 TQ

This is starting to get good

[markreed]

I just realized something.

The Roc Euro car that ran recently with the APR tune, 3" Milltek catless downpipes and catback, and the Roc Euro intake Dyno'd

441 WHP / 527 TQ

Not bad, but after rewatching the AMS clip it looks like it was just the tune, and their catted downpipes.

517 WHP / 586 TQ

This is starting to get good

I wouldn't place too much faith in numbers from different dynos...

For example: APR stage 1, per APRs website, made 488/584 AWHP on 93


Not trying to say anything about the quality or effectiveness of the parts...

[markreed]

Also interesting to me...AMS uses MPH as input for their x-axis. I don't think I have seen anything besides RPM there. Although I don't think any real difference in HP would be relevant, I am curious if the power curve would have the same shape. (or really any reason they chose to show it like that)

[John@Roc-Euro]

Different cars, different dyno's, different days.. not enough info to make a call. The delta between test run 1 and test run 2 would more quantifiable.
Example of perfect testing; random numbers used:

Run 1: Bone stock. This is called the baseline. (300whp)
Run 2: Software added: this should show the gains from software alone. (400whp)
Run 3: Back to stock software, add downpipes: this should show the gain from downpipes alone, if the OE software allows. (320whp)
Run 4: Load tuned software onto car with downpipes: Now showing max gains- one can derive the power the new downpipes give to a tuned car, as well as the total power over stock. (440whp)

Summarily, if all done on the same dyno and the same car, one can conclude:
Regardless of claimed horsepower;
The car made 300whp stock.
The tune made 100whp over stock.
The downpipes made 20whp alone.
The tune, when paired with downpipes, can make an additional 40whp over the tune alone.
Thus, downpipes are worth 40whp with a tune.

The delta/change/difference is what you really want to compare. Anyone using max numbers is just trying to get you caught with the "bigger number" marketing.

(I dyno'd a car once and it made 350whp. The following week I went to a different dyno and it dyno'd 296.... I went back to stock and hit both dyno's again. Both showed 76whp differences. End game? 76whp gains all around!)

[GameBreaker]

Normally I would agree with you guys, but then I've been into EVOs for a long time and have been following AMS for years. They aren't really into dyno queens. That said, I'm dying for more info on their tune. Plus it would go great with your intake John

[markreed]

(I dyno'd a car once and it made 350whp. The following week I went to a different dyno and it dyno'd 296.... I went back to stock and hit both dyno's again. Both showed 76whp differences. End game? 76whp gains all around!)

Exactly! My last car made 718rwhp on a dynojet, and 678 on a mustang. Granted temps and lots of things played a factor, but the dyno is really just a tool. Just like 1/4 times with large differences in DA. Everything is a good measure, we just need a baseline.

Gamebreaker, I was not meaning to dig at you! I, too have been very impressed with AMS. I have no doubt in their ability to produce big numbers (or else their prices wouldnt be reasonable...JMHO...)

[GameBreaker]

No worries Mark, I usually take dyno numbers with a grain of salt unless it's on a heartbreaker. With AMS we all know that their motto is to walk quietly with a really big stick.

Oh yeah, I also found out... it's on sale already!?!?! Alpha Performance 2012+ Audi C7 S6/S7 Downpipes
Now if they could give any hints on that tune

[Ze_Nardo6]

Was looking to find out why the AMS 3" catted DPs are $3k vs the APR 3" catted DPs at around $2k. What do AMS DPs provide that APRs don't? That delta is massive!

[SilveR316]

Was looking to find out why the AMS 3" catted DPs are $3k vs the APR 3" catted DPs at around $2k. What do AMS DPs provide that APRs don't? That delta is massive!

Well, for starters... they're compatible with aftermarket exhausts... lol.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Well, for starters... they're compatible with aftermarket exhausts... lol.

And APR's are not? That in itself is not worth $1k though.

[SilveR316]

And APR's are not? That in itself is not worth $1k though.

Apparently not with the AWE. You need extra pipes to link them up.

I think with AMS you're just paying for the name. Quality might be better as well, but I'm not sure if it worth that much more.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Apparently not with the AWE. You need extra pipes to link them up.

I think with AMS you're just paying for the name. Quality might be better as well, but I'm not sure if it worth that much more.

I recall APR/AMS using the same quality cats, is this true?

[scott99c2]

The APRs are cast flanges, which I haven't decided if that's an advantage or disadvantage. The cats are super important, especially with regards to price... junky cats are a non-starter for me.

[Thisisnoise]

For the apr downpipes to mate to the awe system you will need to fabricate roughly 7inch extensions


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[Ze_Nardo6]

The APRs are cast flanges, which I haven't decided if that's an advantage or disadvantage. The cats are super important, especially with regards to price... junky cats are a non-starter for me.

That's why I asked the question. I know the cats AMS uses are about as good as they get...I understand Unitronic's cats to be inferior to AMS ones. But what about APR? $1000 difference is HUGE

[wwhan]

Both APR & AMS look like similar Catalytic converters,

This looks like a similar product: Vibrant Performance 7530 GESi High Output Catalytic Converter Rated for 350-500HP, 3" Inlet/Outlet, 4" O.D. x 7" Overall Length $400

or this: Vibrant Performance 7830 GESi Ultra High Output Catalytic Converter Rated for 500-850HP, 3" Inlet/Outlet, 4-1/2" O.D. x 7-1/2" Overall Length $443

Vibrant Performance

[Ze_Nardo6]

^ Good info! I want to hear from AMS or from someone who has AMS DPs on their car. Would be interesting to see the justification for $3k for DPs

[Dguth]

I have the AMS DPs on my car as I went the full stage 3 upgrade which also include their intercooler. Personally I think they are pricing these out of the market I know they had theirs out before APR presented their options. But you would think they would have adjusted their pricing knowing their competition is now a grand less. I went the AMS route because I personally wanted DPs to fit to my AWE exhaust with minimal modification. Plus. I did not want my exhaust sounded altered. Meaning the APR DPs will create a louder exhaust sound in the cabin given the Cats are located more underneath you. May not matter depending on what kind of exhaust you have but I think the AWE sound is perfect and any time you alter those components your not guaranteed you will like the outcome.

Bottom line I think they are over priced but I went ahead and paid the difference knowing that given my reasons above.


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[Ze_Nardo6]

I have the AMS DPs on my car as I went the full stage 3 upgrade which also include their intercooler. Personally I think they are pricing these out of the market I know they had theirs out before APR presented their options. But you would think they would have adjusted their pricing knowing their competition is now a grand less. I went the AMS route because I personally wanted DPs to fit to my AWE exhaust with minimal modification. Plus. I did not want my exhaust sounded altered. Meaning the APR DPs will create a louder exhaust sound in the cabin given the Cats are located more underneath you. May not matter depending on what kind of exhaust you have but I think the AWE sound is perfect and any time you alter those components your not guaranteed you will like the outcome.

Bottom line I think they are over priced but I went ahead and paid the difference knowing that given my reasons above.


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Your situation makes sense of going the AMS route. I want their quality but don't think I could justify a grand over APR DPs

[wwhan]

Your situation makes sense of going the AMS route. I want their quality but don't think I could justify a grand over APR DPs

Either AMS profit margin target is very high or the production costs (labor) are really high. It does seem a bit excessive at $3k.

[playwithonehand]

My APR dp fits perfect on my Ipe exhaust without modify.

What made me choose APR over AMS is due to the fact that their cat is near the mid pipe which have the benefit of cooler air=more power because cat is further away from the engine which generate less heat compare to AMS which is right behind the turbo.

Cat in the dp is better for emissions. Dp is hotter therefore burns cleaner
Cat further down stream of the exhaust is better for flow ie performance

Cat is also a muffler so further away will increase the exhaust volume which fits my purpose

[Ze_Nardo6]

My APR dp fits perfect on my Ipe exhaust without modify.

What made me choose APR over AMS is due to the fact that their cat is near the mid pipe which have the benefit of cooler air=more power because cat is further away from the engine which generate less heat compare to AMS which is right behind the turbo.

Cat in the dp is better for emissions. Dp is hotter therefore burns cleaner
Cat further down stream of the exhaust is better for flow ie performance

Cat is also a muffler so further away will increase the exhaust volume which fits my purpose

Good information. I guess my only remaining concern would be if a tuner, other than APR, would offer me a stage 2 tune with APR DPs. I know EPL will but it seems their tunes for the S6 are slightly behind others in the category.

I would assume Unitronic would only issue a stage 2 tune with their DPs?

[Tony@EPL]

Good information. I guess my only remaining concern would be if a tuner, other than APR, would offer me a stage 2 tune with APR DPs. I know EPL will but it seems their tunes for the S6 are slightly behind others in the category.

I would assume Unitronic would only issue a stage 2 tune with their DPs?

Obviously we are looking any potential issues that our customers are experiencing. I will say this, both time we know of where our cars were at the track with other S6/S7's with other tunes... so same track, same day... The EPL cars came out on top and not by a little.

[scott99c2]

Not to say that I won't do this mod, but it's technically a hundred bux a horsepower gained. That's a steep price.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Obviously we are looking any potential issues that our customers are experiencing. I will say this, both time we know of where our cars were at the track with other S6/S7's with other tunes... so same track, same day... The EPL cars came out on top and not by a little.

Was waiting for someone at EPL to rebuttal! You need to chime in on the track thread that's sticky'd.