2.7tt swap or 2.8 repair.

[Alexander_fogg]

Hi,
Got an oil leak on the left bank of my 2.8 V6, which i believe after changing the rocker cover gaskets, is the Cam Chain Tensioner.
The little b*stards are about 20 quid, but unfortunately, require taking the whole top of the engine apart. unfortunately I dont have the space or knowledge for that so asked a couple garages. they all quote £500-£600. Shit.
These are the little gaskets.


So, as I have a niggle list of things I wanted to change in the future, I have considered swapping for a 2.7tt.
Here's why, (Please dont say just buy an S4, as i got a very very good deal on my B5.5, it has top spec, low mileage and its already insured taxed tested ETC.)

So on the niggle list.
Slightly spongy clutch, it doesn't slip unless you change gear to drastically so wanted to change at some point.
Always wanted more power an was considering supercharging, but the only kit is thousands, story for another day.
slight hole in the down pipe that blows a bit. ( annoying )
slight smell of fuel, i think from downpipe, or perished line.
Either way i can solve all these with a engine swap to 2.7tt, with the bonus off added power.
seeing as i was quoted £600 to repair to where it is, and i have a friends garage in newcastle that can put a 2.7tt into mine for £300 providing i bring all the parts.
so, what are peoples thoughts ?
Also does anyone have a detailed list of what it takes to put the 2.7TT from a C5 A6 Allroad into an A4 B5?
Cheers

[redline380]

if you cant change the cam chain tensioner gasket on your own, how can you do a 2.7 swap?

cars over they are pretty cheap (correct me if I am wrong). pick up an s4 that is wrecked and do the swap. Lots of guys would tell you just buy an s4, but they have gotten to the price where swapping isn't out of the question.

[Nollywood]

I will start by saying what you don't want to hear - buy an S4 instead.

I personally don't believe in reinventing the wheel, which is EXACTLY what you'll be doing. It'll still be an A4 Quattro.

I would go with an engine that was never an option in a B5.

4.2 V8.
VR6-T.
I5 20VT.

But hey, that's just me.

[Nollywood]

Wait - you got a good deal on your B5.5? Is there really such a beast? Even a B5 built in 2001 and registered in 2002 IS still a B5.

[nynoah]

We say this in the nicest way possible to save you headache and wallet abuse. Buy a real S4 and or repair what you have. The cost of swapping vs selling your old car and putting that to an S4 make it cheaper to change cars. If you are asking us advice on a Cam Chain Tensioner.... and then leading that to, I should just swap to a 2.7, well I fear for you. You don't know what you don't know and it will cost you. You can research and learn, which will lead you to the conclusion of sell car get S4. The B6 guys have done some 2.7 swaps. You will see there is a lot of work involved and little costs involved that add up fast.

[redline380]

Wait - you got a good deal on your B5.5? Is there really such a beast? Even a B5 built in 2001 and registered in 2002 IS still a B5.

Could be a 2001.5, but the only b5.5 I am aware of is a passat

[Nollywood]

Admittedly the B6 guys lean towards 2.7T swaps, because the 2.7T IS unique to the B6 platform. More work than if the swap was done in a B5 A4, but the rewards Vs the unreliable chain-driven S4 4.2 V8 (which is what the early swaps were aimed at) are worth the effort.

With a B5, I would venture to say it's a pointless exercise, since B5 S4's can be had for as low as £1700 ($2500).

[Nollywood]

Could be a 2001.5, but the only b5.5 I am aware of is a passat

That's what I thought - a transition model before the arrival of the B6.

[redline380]

With a B5, I would venture to say it's a pointless exercise, since B5 S4's can be had for as low as £1700 ($2500).

But where's the fun in just buying an S? You of all people should support swapping any engine in! Also, wouldn't it cost less to insure over there?

[Bordom]

I'm gonna pick up another B5 some day and make them both V8. The S4 will get a boosted V8 to keep with the heritage lol

[Arsenal2012]

Damn son if u can get a complete engine swap for 300 why wont your friend do the cam seals for that price or lower?

Its quite simple you set the engine at TDC then start pulling it apart and putting it together. I just did mine, would i want to do it alone, no.

Like they said dont do 2.7 go with s4 if thats the case, you'll have to upgrade brakes and suspension get an ecu map and the price is going to keep going up and up.

Before you know it you'll be like shit fuchk my life i should have bought an s4.

[Nollywood]

But where's the fun in just buying an S? You of all people should support swapping any engine in! Also, wouldn't it cost less to insure over there?

It'll be fun to do the swap, for sure. But...

...to me, there'll be no sense of achievement, seeing as Audi have already paved the way with the S4.

As for insurance, it'll cost a lot more to insure than a factory S4 B5 or B7.

[Alexander_fogg]

First thanks for all the response guys, ill try and get across my way of thinking more clearly =)

That's what I thought - a transition model before the arrival of the B6.

My apologies, it may not be what they call a b5.5, but over here the B5 was made till 2000, then they made a "facelifted version and added traction control etc" which is what mine is,

if you cant change the cam chain tensioner gasket on your own, how can you do a 2.7 swap?

cars over they are pretty cheap (correct me if I am wrong). pick up an s4 that is wrecked and do the swap. Lots of guys would tell you just buy an s4, but they have gotten to the price where swapping isn't out of the question.

The guy that quoted for the engine swap was labour alone, as I was bringing him the parts.
The repair was labour and parts, as the car also needs new cambelt water pump etc due to being taken off to get the cams out, when I priced up the parts myself, it was £300 in parts to repair mine as is then plus labour which was quoted at £200-£250, and at some point I would still need to update clutch etc as it is slightly on its way out.
Some cars over here are cheap, S4's aren't one of them, as Nollywood says, you can get an S4 for £2000 ish, but over here that would be a much older one with very high miles, 200,000+. I know a lot of cars in america have that sort of mileage, but you guys do a lot of motorway miles and have nice weather =) Mine has only done 120,000, hence I really want to try and keep mine. To put the price into perspective, a good condition 2.8 2000 a4 would be £1700, with 110,000. S4s in that condition here are £5000 plus.
Hope that makes sense.

But where's the fun in just buying an S? You of all people should support swapping any engine in! Also, wouldn't it cost less to insure over there?

Not sure on the insurance, but I already have a policy, and it would cost me quite a lot to change to an S4, and I agree where is the fun hah =P

Damn son if u can get a complete engine swap for 300 why wont your friend do the cam seals for that price or lower?

Its quite simple you set the engine at TDC then start pulling it apart and putting it together. I just did mine, would i want to do it alone, no.

Like they said dont do 2.7 go with s4 if thats the case, you'll have to upgrade brakes and suspension get an ecu map and the price is going to keep going up and up.

Before you know it you'll be like shit fuchk my life i should have bought an s4.

Yes he can quote lower for labour but the parts here where about £300, due to having new seals, rocker cover gaskets, cambelt, water pump etc. so would cost me £500 maybe even £450 to be no further than I am now.
I really want more power and want to turn this car into a project that I am going to keep for a long time, with the end goal being an RS4 Limo style build.
I have found several engines out of the C5 Allroad, for £400-£500, I would need to get all the little parts too, and I have priced up a new clutch too.
Overall I have aimed for £600-700 in parts for the engine swap, meaning the overall swap would be between £900-£1000 Vs, £450-£600 so its double.
but for that i would have an 2.7tt engine with 12 months warranty, new clutch, more power, about 300 BHP compared to 197 BHP at the moment, and also the added bonus of future modifications.


Does this all make sense ?
Hope so, Thank you all for your input just trying to figure out what to do thanks.

[Nollywood]

Alex, I'm in the UK too, and know all the European B5's like I know my mama.

I also have a last of the line B5 A4 2.8 Quattro Sport, with ESP as well. A minter, that cost me under £500.

I can confidently tell you your guy charging you £300 for a 2.7T swap will soon realise it's a bigger job than he thinks. It's not difficult, more time consuming than anything else. How close to plug and play will depend on the age of the donor car. Even using a B5 S4 as the donor is not always straightforward. There are 3 different UK-spec B5 S4 engine harnesses, from 1998 - 2001 with different chassis plugs. Something your buddy needs to be aware of.

I would be inclined to go with a V8 40V swap instead. At least you'll end up with a unique B5 - and with 4 B5 V8 swaps under my belt, and another almost completed, it's about the same amount of work as a 2.7T swap. Insurance will be similar for both, but at least you might as well go with something different for the privilege.

[andyrew]

That gasket can be done with basic tools and the tensioner tool. You dont even need to loosen the cams.. I would just fix it, drive it for a while then sell it and grab an S4.

IF your friend can put in a s4 engine for $300, then why not just have THEM do the tensioner seal?

[nynoah]

You should do the swap, just for our entertainment value. Please be sure to take lots of pics.

[viceprp]

I would personally swap a N/A motor in. The 4.2 on a 2.8 trans would be a good setup and they sound mean as hell. I was into BAT 1.8t's but the headache of a turbo car isn't worth it. The 2.7 is twice the cost and more of a nightmare.

For those who haven't heard or seen the B5.5 term, you need to get your head out of the sand. Venture into the B5 S4 and other platforms and become more knowledgeable.

Again, I would go with a tuned 4.2 with exhaust on that 2.8 trans. GL

[19birel]

I've always wondered why people don't commonly refer to the facelift cars as B5.5s, like the Passats or even the facelift B8s (B8.5s).

In my opinion, you'll be much better off buying an S4. Sure the swap itself may be possible on the cheap, but by the time you get the rest of the car up to snuff (suspension, brakes etc.) You'll likely find yourself nearing the cost of an S4. Also, I'd imagine that you'd want to do some maintenance to your donor engine (timing belt, water pump etc.) before dropping it in which adds to the cost. If you want to make more power but don't want an S4, your best bet might be to look into an A4 1.8T Quattro. Lower cost of entry, and with a K04 turbo upgrade, performance close to that of an S4.

[viceprp]

^ s4's can see 300 who on a really aggressive k03 tune. You would need a beefy tune on at least a 2871 Elim kit.

Best to do a tuned 4.2. The power one makes will keep you side-by-side with a w/m stg 2 b5 s4 (300whp).

[maxiz1]

I also own a b5.5 A4. Weird thing about it is the manufacturing/ registration was in 2003. I always have problems when specifying the car model coz people are always confused it with a b6. Additionally, the engine code is APU which is 90% similar to ATW in the US but has the AEB type 3 pin coil pack with ICM.