Probably the most terrible question of the day...

[Live2Ski]

There is nothing more than the 5 bolts holding the wheels on right? Im trying to install my spacers and am not having any luck getting the first wheel off. I should be onto the 3 wheel by now. Im beating on with a rubber mallet and its not budging a bit. The dealer just put tires on it 700 miles ago so these wheels should just pop right off. Am I missing something?

[chet]

lol you know, I recall a thread from a year or two ago where someone was having a similar problem. it's just the 5 bolts. I forget what the solution was. I think it really was just hitting it harder, but don't quote me! good luck!


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[evanb]

Try loosening the lug bolts a couple of turns and driving back and forth gently a few times.

[StevenStarke]

its all the way up in the air right? Sit on your but and kick the tire hard with the bottom of your shoe a few times. It will come off

[LINDW4LL]

Give a nice kick to the edge of the tire.

[SteveYem]

Make sure the car is secure on a jack stand, parking brake is on, and other wheels are securely chocked before wailing on that stuck wheel. Ask me how I know...

[cspcrx]

Actually not dumb at all. My neighbors son who is into cars just came down with the same question. I hit it with my palm at the top of the tire sidewall and it came right off. The wheels are hub centered and they can stick to the hubs.

[14S4GWM]

Make sure the car is secure on a jack stand, parking brake is on, and other wheels are securely chocked before wailing on that stuck wheel. Ask me how I know...

On the s4? If so you've put that thing through the ringer!

[vwblackb5]

All about leverage.. kick near the top (11-12 o'clock) if applying force from the outside and if using a mallet/sledge slide under car and hit "tire" not rim on the bottom (6 oclock). Remember if using impact wrench to re-install, use torque limiting sockets and finish off with torque wrench (90ft*lbs), as to not over-tighten (don't forget star pattern of course).

Give it the sweet chin music

[A.C.]

I had the same issue this past weekend. I bought the car used with 70k and decided to change the oil and rotate the tires. Jacked up the left side and was like WTH?? So after pulling and tugging and times with the rubber mallet I turned my back and gave a gentle but swift kick and it loosen up to remove from the hub. Then decided to used a little anti seize on the bolts and hub.

Sent from my mind

[Starman2112]

I had good luck by first breaking the bolts a 1/2 turn or so, jack it up and then release the hydraulic fairly back down quick.

The "jolt" usually makes it easy to pull the wheel. IMO less risk than beating it to death up in the air.

[Acejam]

Then decided to used a little anti seize on the bolts and hub.

Hubs? Great idea! Bolts? Careful with that...

[Live2Ski]

Give a nice kick to the edge of the tire.

That did the trick. Spacers are installed. Amazing how much corrosion built up in such a short amount of time. The one tire I had to kick repeatedly while rotating it before it broke loose.

[S4 00 2.7]

Make sure the car is secure on a jack stand, parking brake is on, and other wheels are securely chocked before wailing on that stuck wheel. Ask me how I know...

this. never cut corners on safety

[fritze18]

Hubs? Great idea! Bolts? Careful with that...

^This

[Zaider]

Careful with putting anything on bolts that have a specific torque value. The specified torque for wheel bolts is "dry torque" and there are reduction factors for how much to adjust the target torque to get "wet torque" depending on what fluid you're using. Here's a better explanation than what I can come up with:

When applying torque to a dry bolt more friction is created than applying torque to a wet bolt with oil or
other automotive fluids on the threads. With less friction (wet threads), the bolt will stretch more before a
torque wench will click. Because friction is such a big factor in bolt torque, it is important to know the
difference between applying torque to a dry bolt and a wet bolt. Using oil, anti-seize or other types of
thread lubricant is a common practice, but an understanding that wet threads require less torque than dry
threads because of friction is very important. Since every type of lubricant has a different loss of friction
coefficient, it is recommended that every technician own a chart showing how much to reduce the torque
when using different bolts and lubricants. This type of chart can accompany a bolt torque table, a drill
index chart for drilling and tapping, a conversion chart and a basic calculator. The “Pocket Ref” by Thomas
J. Glover is a great all-in-one book with just about everything.

Regarding the OP, I generally turn around and give the wheel a good back kick (dont use your toes unless you're wearing protective footwear) with the flat of my foot. If that doesn't do it, I put the bolts back in but not torque them down and lower the car, then drive forward a little bit (half a foot). Never had any wheel thats been more stuck than that so I dont know what step 3 would be.

[DBL R]

its all the way up in the air right? Sit on your but and kick the tire hard with the bottom of your shoe a few times. It will come off

+1 that's what I did

[A.C.]

Careful with putting anything on bolts that have a specific torque value. The specified torque for wheel bolts is "dry torque" and there are reduction factors for how much to adjust the target torque to get "wet torque" depending on what fluid you're using. Here's a better explanation than what I can come up with:



Regarding the OP, I generally turn around and give the wheel a good back kick (dont use your toes unless you're wearing protective footwear) with the flat of my foot. If that doesn't do it, I put the bolts back in but not torque them down and lower the car, then drive forward a little bit (half a foot). Never had any wheel thats been more stuck than that so I dont know what step 3 would be.

Good to know. Generally it's a force of habit and would hand tightened each bolt once the car is lowered onto the ground. Drive around the block and retighten

Sent from my mind

[anerbe]

Agree with many in here.

To take off a stuck wheel - like others stated, if impacts on the tires does not free the wheel, keep the bolts slightly threaded on the hub, then lower the car and rock it.

Clean off all the dirt/rust/etc... on both the wheel contact area and the hub surface (including the center area). I normally use a wire brush or steel wool, then wipe with a rag. I then take a very little amount of grease/old oil, put it on a rag and rub it on the hub surface and the wheel contact surface. Just enough to make the surface change appearance. This is to help taking off the wheels the next time.

For the bolts, I always take a dry rag and wipe off any residue on the threads, as well as a quick swipe in the hub threads. Never add any type of lubrication/material to the threads. You could easily overtighten, compromising the threads which might shear.

[SteveYem]

On the s4? If so you've put that thing through the ringer!

This particular incident put my right hand through the ringer, but the car was no worse for the wear. A quick anecdote so that others do not make the same stupid mistake:

I used the OEM scissor jack to lift the rear driver side corner. I had used the OEM joack many times successfully, knowing that it was not the best tool for the job, but it was convenient and seemed to do the job. Wheels were not chocked, car was not on a jack stand. Everything that I could have done incorrectly was done incorrectly. Rear driver wheel was being stubborn just as reported by the OP. I gave the tire a couple good whacks top and bottom with a deadblow mallet and saw it move a bit, so I grabbed the OD of the tire with my gloved hands and started push/pulling it to rock it off the hub. I looked over and saw the scissor jack tipping and did not get my right hand off the top of the tire quickly enough. The car rolled off the jack and crushed my hand between the tire and the fender. That was about 5 weeks ago and I will refrain from posting a photo of my hand directly following the incident. I am lucky to still have use of my right hand.

Let me reiterate: Before doing ANYTHING, including wailing on a stuck wheel, put the car in gear, engage the parking brake, put the lifted corner securely on a jack stand and firmly chock the other 3 wheels. Push the car back and forth to make sure it is stable before manipulating the wheel.


More to the point of this thread - has anyone had success applying anti-seize to the bore of the wheel to prevent it from getting stuck on subsequent wheel removal?

[EHesh14]

Using a heat gun, heat up the hub area and then give it a few kicks from the inside of the wheel

[Silverbullet S4]

Make sure the car is secure on a jack stand, parking brake is on, and other wheels are securely chocked before wailing on that stuck wheel. Ask me how I know...

Been there, learned from that!ha That OEM jack is horrible. I was in park with parking brake on and figured all was good but had a particularly stubborn tire I had to kick the crap out of and tipped the whole damn car off the stand. Luckily it didn't cause any damage but was a real eye opener for sure. First and last time that ever happened....

[bpang1]

I agree with using anti-seize on the hub before putting the wheel back on. I use synthetic grease and it does the trick just fine too...after a full Summer of daily driving and racing, the wheels came off with no problems when changing to winter.

One thing I did when I was doing my first change (when mine were stuck too) was spraying some PB Blaster in the holes and around the rim...I am pretty sure that helped as well as kicking the tire at 12 o'clock with my rubber flip flops.

[Brother Owl]

This particular incident put my right hand through the ringer, but the car was no worse for the wear. A quick anecdote so that others do not make the same stupid mistake:

I used the OEM scissor jack to lift the rear driver side corner. I had used the OEM joack many times successfully, knowing that it was not the best tool for the job, but it was convenient and seemed to do the job. Wheels were not chocked, car was not on a jack stand. Everything that I could have done incorrectly was done incorrectly. Rear driver wheel was being stubborn just as reported by the OP. I gave the tire a couple good whacks top and bottom with a deadblow mallet and saw it move a bit, so I grabbed the OD of the tire with my gloved hands and started push/pulling it to rock it off the hub. I looked over and saw the scissor jack tipping and did not get my right hand off the top of the tire quickly enough. The car rolled off the jack and crushed my hand between the tire and the fender. That was about 5 weeks ago and I will refrain from posting a photo of my hand directly following the incident. I am lucky to still have use of my right hand.

Let me reiterate: Before doing ANYTHING, including wailing on a stuck wheel, put the car in gear, engage the parking brake, put the lifted corner securely on a jack stand and firmly chock the other 3 wheels. Push the car back and forth to make sure it is stable before manipulating the wheel.


More to the point of this thread - has anyone had success applying anti-seize to the bore of the wheel to prevent it from getting stuck on subsequent wheel removal?

You have to post that pic now

[14S4GWM]

^ I agree, post it up steve

[blbroo]

This particular incident put my right hand through the ringer, but the car was no worse for the wear. A quick anecdote so that others do not make the same stupid mistake:

I used the OEM scissor jack to lift the rear driver side corner. I had used the OEM joack many times successfully, knowing that it was not the best tool for the job, but it was convenient and seemed to do the job. Wheels were not chocked, car was not on a jack stand. Everything that I could have done incorrectly was done incorrectly. Rear driver wheel was being stubborn just as reported by the OP. I gave the tire a couple good whacks top and bottom with a deadblow mallet and saw it move a bit, so I grabbed the OD of the tire with my gloved hands and started push/pulling it to rock it off the hub. I looked over and saw the scissor jack tipping and did not get my right hand off the top of the tire quickly enough. The car rolled off the jack and crushed my hand between the tire and the fender. That was about 5 weeks ago and I will refrain from posting a photo of my hand directly following the incident. I am lucky to still have use of my right hand.

Let me reiterate: Before doing ANYTHING, including wailing on a stuck wheel, put the car in gear, engage the parking brake, put the lifted corner securely on a jack stand and firmly chock the other 3 wheels. Push the car back and forth to make sure it is stable before manipulating the wheel.


More to the point of this thread - has anyone had success applying anti-seize to the bore of the wheel to prevent it from getting stuck on subsequent wheel removal?

I use a wire wheel on the end of a drill to clean the hubs and wheel contact points off when I have them removed. I did use some anti-seize on the hub and spacers (when I had some on) and had no issues easily getting them apart.

Had the same issue of a stuck wheel on our ML this weekend. Just kept taping it with a rubber mallet until it loosened up.

Here are some really inexpensive wheel chocks that store easily:
http://www.amazon.com/FloTool-11930M...s=wheel+chocks

And a floor jack that works pretty well:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...rch_detailpage


Scary sounding situation. I've had a few scary issues, but nothing that bad. Have scars on my hand and wrist from trying to break bolts loose to replace a wheel bearing. Wrench slipped and the dust shield got me.

[SteveYem]

You have to post that pic now

^ I agree, post it up steve

Well alright:



I still have some numbness between my middle finger and ring finger knuckles, some temperature dependent stiffness, and apparently some scar tissue building up on top of the first bone of each finger (between the MP and IP joints). Good thing the tire is relatively squishy.

[vwblackb5]

Well alright:



I still have some numbness between my middle finger and ring finger knuckles, some temperature dependent stiffness, and apparently some scar tissue building up on top of the first bone of each finger (between the MP and IP joints). Good thing the tire is relatively squishy.

That's crazy! Hope it heals and no nerve/or long term damage Steve! The internet will need to start a go-fund me or paypal you 5$ towards replacing your scissor jack

[14S4GWM]

Wow Steve, I hope you're good in the long run.

[demonmk2]

How did you get your hand out?

[Brother Owl]

Well alright:



I still have some numbness between my middle finger and ring finger knuckles, some temperature dependent stiffness, and apparently some scar tissue building up on top of the first bone of each finger (between the MP and IP joints). Good thing the tire is relatively squishy.

Ouch! Could've been much worse though

How did you get your hand out?

And this....

[SteveYem]

That's crazy! Hope it heals and no nerve/or long term damage Steve! The internet will need to start a go-fund me or paypal you 5$ towards replacing your scissor jack

The scissor jack has been permanently retired and all subsequent lifts have been performed using the 2 ton low profile rapid pump floor jack (which I owned at the time of the incident but was too lazy to lug out of the garage to use).

Wow Steve, I hope you're good in the long run.

Thanks, me too. I have a feeling I'm in for some intermittent tingling and arthritis for the next 50 years. I have pretty much full motion now but will be going to PT within the next couple of weeks to work through it.

How did you get your hand out?

Wife was home and heard me yelling for her. She came out, saw what had happened and panicked, and I had to calm her down and instruct her on retracting the scissor jack enough to get it back under the rail and crank it up enough to let me slide my hand out. All told I was probably stuck in there for over a minute. I got very, very lucky.

[Htown213]

wow... crazy story

[Brother Owl]

Well alright:



I still have some numbness between my middle finger and ring finger knuckles, some temperature dependent stiffness, and apparently some scar tissue building up on top of the first bone of each finger (between the MP and IP joints). Good thing the tire is relatively squishy.

How did you get your hand out?

The scissor jack has been permanently retired and all subsequent lifts have been performed using the 2 ton low profile rapid pump floor jack (which I owned at the time of the incident but was too lazy to lug out of the garage to use).



Thanks, me too. I have a feeling I'm in for some intermittent tingling and arthritis for the next 50 years. I have pretty much full motion now but will be going to PT within the next couple of weeks to work through it.



Wife was home and heard me yelling for her. She came out, saw what had happened and panicked, and I had to calm her down and instruct her on retracting the scissor jack enough to get it back under the rail and crank it up enough to let me slide my hand out. All told I was probably stuck in there for over a minute. I got very, very lucky.

Glad you're feeling better, hope PT helps!

[SteveYem]

Thanks br0s. More feels here than between my middle two fingers haha

[jsh139]

Damn, Steve, that hand looks wrecked. Probably a good thing that you were wearing gloves and that you didn't try and yank your hand out, but remained calm enough to get it out the right way.

Looks like Pottstown ER. If so, hope they gave you better care than they did my son a few weeks ago.

[The Fat Kid]

Thanks br0s. More feels here than between my middle two fingers haha

Wow, that is terrible... I remember you were asking about a scissor jack; thankfully it did not live up to its nickname.

I had my car up on a 1.5 ton floor jack this afternoon to install my winter setup, and my fingers were crossed when giving the back wheels a couple kicks. I used big stones to chock the wheels (just kept forgetting to buy a real set), but definitely buying a set after reading about your incident.

I had to rehab a finger/hand/forearm rock-climbing injury and can dig up links for exercises when I am back in front of a computer on Monday.

[cspcrx]

This serves as a great warning. Guys if you can afford a $50k cars go down, even if it's to harbor freight, and get a floor jack and stands. I would never work on a car with a scissor jack, if I had a choice. That being said I understand being at the side of the road changing a tire and that is all you have.

Glad you did not get any more seriously injured. I am sure that was scary as hell when it happened.

[mr shickadance]

OP, i know you solved your problem but here are some tips for the future:

With no spare tire
- Basically kick the tire as hard as you can from the back (think like how a horse would kick)

with a spare tire/wheel
- litterally 'hurl' the tire and wheel at the wheel that is on the car. I know it sounds really stupid and wierd, but believe me, there is no easier way to remove a wheel froma car that is hubbed-on. the rubber from the tire will not incur any damage on the stuck tire/wheel, and the weight of the tire/wheel being swung will be enough mass to un stick the issue at hand.


to let this never happen again, put a little brake grease or anti seize on the hub when re-installing.

video of method #2
https://youtu.be/cfKxXaR40IM?t=1m24s