Supercharger cooling

[acsgp]

Just a couple of questions that I can't seem to find an answer for.

1. Is there a specific heat exchanger for the supercharger? If so, if the stock system is single loop, so there are 2 heat exchangers for the combined engine + supercharger loop?

2. I've been wanting to improve cooling without having to put in a new heat exchanger in front of the existing radiator. I'm concerned that this will impact the cooling capability of the existing radiator as airflow will decrease, and it will be hotter downstream of the new heat exchanger. Is this a valid concern?

3. I've been in contact with both AWE and their local distributor, but they don't seem interested in just selling me the reservoir and upgraded pump alone. But I've gone on to read that the new reservoir will separate the loops, so how can it be sold separate from the new heat exchanger?

At this point in time, I just want to increase volume and flow to improve cooling.

Any thoughts?

[chaos2984]

This is very good thought. I want to do this to mine as well. If you can just separate the S/C cooling loop from the engine loop. It will run much cooler than what it is now. I will have to pull up my pics. But should be pretty easy to separate the systems. Just need some fittings. And you will need a pump that runs constantly when the engine is running. Or you need to know the logic behind the factory pump. The radiator that's in the car now should provide enough cooling if you separate the system. You won't be trying to cool down 212F coolant. The coolant will be much lower temp your trying to cool and will be cooler after exiting the radiator and will absorb more heat from the air charge than being at a higher temp. I want to do this but never got around to it.

[Dudemans4]

ive done some research on this myself here is what ive gathered.
this is where the engine coolant seperates from the charger coolant
[IMG][/IMG]

if you were to cap the left side off and add a reservoir to the right you would be covered here.

then you can put this pump inline with the supercharger cooling and there you have it a closed cooling system
[IMG][/IMG]

http://www.cxracing.com/mm5/merchant...gory_Code=AWIC

[scottycs]

following. Looks like divorcing the system and new pump would be a low cost solution for increased cooling!

[DBL R]

Interesting points. Subbed

[S4'ed]

I bet that the single point that the two cooling loops connect, does not transfer a significant amount of engine heat into the supercharger cooling loop. Because it is a single point, no fluid flows between the loops. Audi made a single point connection so that both loops get filled at the same time at the factory.

[MrFunk]

There are several systems available and lots of information on here for each. Plus you can visit their web sites.
AWE, APR, Alpha (what I'm running)... etc. I'm very pleased with the Alpha system I have.
None of them will reduce engine cooling.
Some have a segregated loop... only issue with that is that if and when coolant levels get low (leak etc) on the Boost cooler segregated loop there is no warnings that you would otherwise get with a combined loop.

There are no proven benefits that I am aware of for separating the loop either and they way you are suggesting separating them may do a worst job a cooling in fact especially if keeping the OE hardware.

You can buy full systems with pump etc or you can buy partial systems. i don't really see the point to buying a partial system though...
They are proven work well...

[scottycs]

Current offerings are a joke....the product does not justify the cost, not even 50% of the cost.

[MrFunk]

Current offerings are a joke....the product does not justify the cost, not even 50% of the cost.

They work...
DIY if you have the time... Just like any aftermarket product - typically over priced for what they are. Look at the cost of exhausts... lol... same thing... if you can build one yourself that sounds good have at it...

[scottycs]

exactly why I have not bought an exhaust on any of my recent cars. Unfortunately I do not have the time to DIY, so I am hoping someone else does the leg work and posts a DIY :)

[jran76]

Several people have DIY'ed both a coolant system and exhaust if that is what you are after. I'll agree with MrFunk in that everything like this is overpriced if you are paying someone else to conceptualize, design, engineer, test, procure, assemble, market, ship, warranty, and support a product. It's the nature of the beast.

What do you think it would take to cobble together your own kit? Maybe $800? For something like this, I'd rather pay $1600 to AMS to do all the steps I listed above. You get a system that is engineered to a really high level in terms of brackets, mounting, fitment, the wiring is fully plug and play, etc. The level of detail is way beyond what you'd ever accomplish with a DIY. You'd probably say that doesn't matter for something like this, but if you installed both, I think you would probably change your mind.

[scottycs]

$800 to put together my own kit? I would say half of that at most...

[jran76]

$800 to put together my own kit? I would say half of that at most...

Several people have posted DIY's on here and the radiators run in the $400-600 range, the pumps, $100-250, and reservoirs maybe $50-100. Add in wiring, silicon hoses, clamps, fittings, brackets, etc. If you think you can do it for under $400, I'd like to see what you come up with. Post some links for the radiator, pump and reservoir you'd use. I'm going to say you can't get close to $400. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but several people have said the same thing, and then they look for the parts and realize they're pretty far off.

Edit: I should add.... I have no doubt you can find a radiator, pump, and reservoir for $400, but I don't think you are going to find parts on par with the existing kits for anything close to that.

[dropshadow]

.

.

[jran76]

^^That's what happens when you start thinking too much about things....

[chaos2984]

Several people have posted DIY's on here and the radiators run in the $400-600 range, the pumps, $100-250, and reservoirs maybe $50-100. Add in wiring, silicon hoses, clamps, fittings, brackets, etc. If you think you can do it for under $400, I'd like to see what you come up with. Post some links for the radiator, pump and reservoir you'd use. I'm going to say you can't get close to $400. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but several people have said the same thing, and then they look for the parts and realize they're pretty far off.

Edit: I should add.... I have no doubt you can find a radiator, pump, and reservoir for $400, but I don't think you are going to find parts on par with the existing kits for anything close to that.

I looked up awhile back and i priced out a radiator for like 250-300 that was close to the size of AMS.


Honestly the best way to see whats going on is to get the car at operating temp and temp out the inlet to the S/c radiator and see how close it is to normal coolant temp. That will tell you if its going in a loop. But it has to use the engine coolant and cools it down and sends it to the S/c I think from what i remember after the S/C it dumps back into the normal cooling loop.

[acsgp]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

The idea i was mooting was to keep the stock loop with 2 heat exchangers, with increase volume via a reservoir and increased flow via the upgraded pump. I'm not gonna track the car, just want to improve cooling out by the equator where I am, and potentially to offset heat soak when I chip to stage 1.

I also have ADS, and don't want to touch that cooler if need be.

Thoughts on that?

[chaos2984]

Well depending on what B8 you have. If you have a B8 you have an additional radiator in the drivers fender well bumper area. If you have a B8.5 they deleted it. What your trying to do could upset the flow dynamics to the stock system if you want to add a bigger faster pump in the system. It would cause cavitation and you can overheat or destroy your engine. if i would do anything like that would be to add a 2nd radiator after the 1st one then pipe it to the S/C That would be the only way to help cooler coolant to get to your s/c. But adding volume won't really help much. Its still going to run at the same temp unless you isolate the system.

[MrFunk]

exactly why I have not bought an exhaust on any of my recent cars. Unfortunately I do not have the time to DIY, so I am hoping someone else does the leg work and posts a DIY :)

LOL - enjoy your stock S4...

[Steve416]

Someone mentioned Killer Chiller in a similar thread. Why the heck isn't this platform all over that idea for cooling? It's pretty cheap and appears to be way more affective than any cooling system currently offered for the B8. It connects your supercharger to the AC line and consistently drops IATs 30-40 degrees below ambient. I'm guessing you have to divorce the SC from the engine coolant line though. They even have a kit for the B8. Anyone using it?

[Hofahome]

This is why I started a thread recently on the killer chiller. I emailed Joseph Kincaid (the developer) and he said he is not sure if their b8 a4 system would fit the S4. Still deciding if I want to try it but may do it in the summer. Based on my research, it works great for a DD but using it with an upgraded HE is counterproductive since the HE will try to get the temps back up to ambient. Our stock HE is quite small so it may work well. One guy on the MB E55 forums said the S/C was cool to the touch at normal operating temps in the summer. I honestly think there could be a market for this for our cars. Someone just needs to try it and report back.
I personally would not divorce the system as there is no way to monitor it, but I can see the possible benefits.

[rtl5009]

How do we know the pump mentioned above is better than the stock s/c pump?

[acsgp]

Someone mentioned Killer Chiller in a similar thread. Why the heck isn't this platform all over that idea for cooling? It's pretty cheap and appears to be way more affective than any cooling system currently offered for the B8. It connects your supercharger to the AC line and consistently drops IATs 30-40 degrees below ambient. I'm guessing you have to divorce the SC from the engine coolant line though. They even have a kit for the B8. Anyone using it?

This is why I started a thread recently on the killer chiller. I emailed Joseph Kincaid (the developer) and he said he is not sure if their b8 a4 system would fit the S4. Still deciding if I want to try it but may do it in the summer. Based on my research, it works great for a DD but using it with an upgraded HE is counterproductive since the HE will try to get the temps back up to ambient. Our stock HE is quite small so it may work well. One guy on the MB E55 forums said the S/C was cool to the touch at normal operating temps in the summer. I honestly think there could be a market for this for our cars. Someone just needs to try it and report back.
I personally would not divorce the system as there is no way to monitor it, but I can see the possible benefits.

Interesting. That being said, would it affect the a/c performance in the cabin? Zero sum game after all.

[Hofahome]

From what I have read, not that much at all. I thought about that too. Also, running the AC compressor uses about 8hp and the decrease in IATs more than makes up for it by gaining back the "lost" hp associated with high IATs.

[boostx2]

This is why I started a thread recently on the killer chiller. I emailed Joseph Kincaid (the developer) and he said he is not sure if their b8 a4 system would fit the S4. Still deciding if I want to try it but may do it in the summer. Based on my research, it works great for a DD but using it with an upgraded HE is counterproductive since the HE will try to get the temps back up to ambient. Our stock HE is quite small so it may work well. One guy on the MB E55 forums said the S/C was cool to the touch at normal operating temps in the summer. I honestly think there could be a market for this for our cars. Someone just needs to try it and report back.
I personally would not divorce the system as there is no way to monitor it, but I can see the possible benefits.

We have at least 5 or 6 ECU tuners that can completely remap engine parameters. Perhaps one of them could develop a (clean oem-ish) method for coolant sensor connection using some existing un(under)used accessory wiring, etc. to at least give you a dash indicator. Do our cars have washer fluid level indicator? (think my b5 did - haven't looked/experienced yet on my b8)

Just thinking sensing coolant loss in a divorced circuit shouldn't be a deal-breaker, if splitting the system were the best thermal solution.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk

[rtl5009]

If you lost all the fluid in the S/c circuit your car would be dogish slow with your foot down for extended periods. You would realize immediately.

[scottycs]

Those prices are grossly inflated, even for custom made parts.

Several people have posted DIY's on here and the radiators run in the $400-600 range, the pumps, $100-250, and reservoirs maybe $50-100. Add in wiring, silicon hoses, clamps, fittings, brackets, etc. If you think you can do it for under $400, I'd like to see what you come up with. Post some links for the radiator, pump and reservoir you'd use. I'm going to say you can't get close to $400. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but several people have said the same thing, and then they look for the parts and realize they're pretty far off.

Edit: I should add.... I have no doubt you can find a radiator, pump, and reservoir for $400, but I don't think you are going to find parts on par with the existing kits for anything close to that.

[scottycs]

Not sure what that means... I refuse to by cat-back exhaust because I prefer a quiet car and there is no noticeable performance gain. I ran stock exhaust with VRSF downpipes on my 335i.

LOL - enjoy your stock S4...

[pooker]

Those prices are grossly inflated, even for custom made parts.

Do you have sources ? I've paid for custom made parts and those prices actually seem low to me. 50-100 for a custom reservoir is cheap. I paid 150 for mine. The price I paid was one of the best quotes I recieved at the time.

[scottycs]

The reservoir is a about right, 100-150. Radiator and pump is high. The more I think about it, I will just go with a upgraded radiator for a few hundred. There is a ton of custom shops near me, living 30 minutes from the "home" of nascar.

[lowjonathan]

The reservoir is a about right, 100-150. Radiator and pump is high. The more I think about it, I will just go with a upgraded radiator for a few hundred. There is a ton of custom shops near me, living 30 minutes from the "home" of nascar.

do you have how the end product reservoir look like? do they sell it online?

thanks