Reliable/Drivable Stage I ECU/TCU Tune B8.5

[Hellahashtags]

Hello all,

There are many posts with regards to this topic, but they're mainly focused on WHP and trap speeds.

I'm looking for your feedback with Stage 1 ECU/TCU tunes (on a 3.0T w/ DCT) from different companies as specifically related to reliability and drivability. There are many options out there including APR, GIAC, REVO, Stasis, Chipwerke, and I want to pick the right one.

Here's what I prioritize:

Reliability - Have any of these ECU/TCU tunes caused any related expensive repairs? Have any of these been flagged TD1 by dealerships (I do plan on flashing back to stock for service.)

Drivability - Do any of these ECU/TCU tunes have driving quirks to them? Partial throttle jumpiness or hesitation? Other DCT wonkiness?

I'm not as concerned with the price differences, eeking out the most WHP/WTQ, 0-60 times, ET or trap speeds. I'm just looking for an extremely reliable ECU/TCU tune combo that drives smoothly. Thanks in advance.

[GRUMPY-S4]

If price is no restriction, go with GIAC. I went EPL for ECU and APR for TCU.

No quirks at all in my case!

BTW there is no Stasis

[waxxonMTL]

+1 for this thread, I feel exactly the same as you OP. I'm not interesting in dragging the car or lapping the car. All I care is driveability, possibility to flash to stock for TD1 and torque down-low for the quicker 0-100 ( just to get off quickly off a stop light for the fun of it OR for a quick zig-zag)

From what I read so far, GIAC seems to be the only TCU flash with very little negative feedback. Seems like there's a few complain about APR tcu flash.

Again, it appears GIAC/APR offers the ECU flash that drive as stock as possible.

However, with the talk about dual pulley setup, it will be interesting to see which tuner will try to offer a tune for both pulley

+ Recently, I saw EPL and 034motorsport offering their own tune ( and I believe another tuner as well) so times will tell if these tune are any better than the already-proven APR/GIAC.

[Hellahashtags]

If price is no restriction, go with GIAC. I went EPL for ECU and APR for TCU.

No quirks at all in my case!

BTW there is no Stasis

Thanks for your reply - curious, is there a reason you went with EPL/APR over GIAC? Different pricing?

[mrmomo313]

Search man... Your OP doesnt sound like you've made an effort do so.. Those questions have been beaten to death. Chipwerkes is not the solution is you want a tcu tune, it's just a spoof box that manipulates the ECU...

If money is no issue then let me save you some time. Pick APR or GIAC, which ever is closest to you.... OEM drivability with more oomph than stock (not only that but proven performance over stock). Those tunes have also proven themselves in terms of reliability over the years..

[Hellahashtags]

By the way guys, I don't want to mislead people with the poll above. The poll is asking if you had any issues with a specific tune, not if you recommend it. Sorry about that

[LINDW4LL]

Please see my replies in bold below. GIAC and APR are the most proven tunes and I'd suggest going with either of those two.

Chipwerke is the safest option as far as warranty is concerned, as there is essentially no chance of being flagged TD1. It's also by far the best value, power/$ wise. The downside is a potential hesitation after shifting that some have experienced. It seems most/many people do not have this problem, but it is a possibility. I believe they have a 30 day return policy if you have any issues.

Here's what I prioritize:

Reliability - Have any of these ECU/TCU tunes caused any related expensive repairs? No. The engine has shown to be extremely stout, even when tuned. There are no notable reliability issues or failures that have been shown as a result of tuning

Have any of these been flagged TD1 by dealerships. Yes, if you don't flash back to stock you will be flagged. If you DO return to stock prior to visiting dealer for service, you are safe- for now. This could theoretically change at any time as Audi develops new ways to uncover unauthorized ECU tuning

Drivability - Do any of these ECU/TCU tunes have driving quirks to them? The Chipwerke piggyback sometimes has a hesitation after shifts. Drivability should be as factory with the other options.

[GRUMPY-S4]

EPL had a Group Buy during Holidays that was half of what GIAC would cost for Stage 2. I only flashed Stage 1 for now though and its free to go to Stage 2 whenever I want. I like that its flash from home (no labor to shop) and they offer E85 tunes

[Hellahashtags]

I'm appreciating these awesome responses. Have a few more questions:

Flash Counter Reset - I'm reading that APR flashing will reset the "flash counter" to avoid TD1. Do all of these other companies offer something similar?

Flash From Home - I'm looking for the ability to flash it myself whenever I want (for the initial flash as well as pre-service.) Do the companies differ on this point?

[MrFunk]

First off... you are not going to find too many people that have experience with all of these tunes to give comparisons. So answers are going to be pretty much biased.
Secondly - all the tunes out are very similar... as far as reliability they are all the same. As far as drive-ability - again same.
I'd suggest with your criteria that you go with the tried tested and true tunes - APR, GIAC and REVO have been around and tuning these cars for a very long time... all with plenty of happy customers.
Out of those you should just choose the brand that has best representation in your area... trusted shops.


From my personal experience (I'm only one person). I had issues with STaSIS v2 (REVO made). The car threw knock sensor codes and had to end up going with another tune (GIAC).

[mrmomo313]

Flash From Home - I'm looking for the ability to flash it myself whenever I want (for the initial flash as well as pre-service.) Do the companies differ on this point?

Unfortunately, APR/GIAC/REVO aren't doing this. EPL has this option which I think is nice.

[GRUMPY-S4]

GIAC has flash from home if you use their handheld.

I believe the counter reset is crap as if Audi really wants to tag you TD1 they would able to via logs in ECU that cant be deleted. They never do this though.

[mrmomo313]

GIAC has flash from home if you use their handheld.

I believe the counter reset is crap as if Audi really wants to tag you TD1 they would able to via logs in ECU that cant be deleted. They never do this though.

That is not the same as getting the ECU flashed at a GIAC dealer.

The handheld unit is like APR's cruise control map switching feature. It just changes what map you are on. Tune is still on the vehicle and detectable by the dealer

[Jv218]

Any unitronic guys in here?


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[GRUMPY-S4]

That is not the same as getting the ECU flashed at a GIAC dealer.

The handheld unit is like APR's cruise control map switching feature. It just changes what map you are on. Tune is still on the vehicle and detectable by the dealer

Ahhh got you... Thank God I went EPL!!!! GIAC dealer charges an hour labor each time!!!! So thats two hours of labor for each dealer visit! No thanks! I later found an APR dealer that doesn't charge for flashing... But the first two I called charged! The Audi Tech at my dealer said to just say I had custom Vag programing on my car and to request not to do the Actual/Spec Scan without asking me first.

[mrmomo313]

Any unitronic guys in here?


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@boro92

He was unitronic tuned but switched to GIAC because he wasn't happy with Uni's throttle mapping. Thread is on audi revolution titled "Question to guys with a tune" if you would like to read his opinion of the tune.


@DGVR6 also has UNI, believe 6MT guy IIRC and he's run some decent pump times. I can't speak on reliability or drivability for UNI though

[GRUMPY-S4]

I drove a UNI Stage 2 car and it seemed comparable to other tunes. Any of the canned tunes will put a smile on your face!

[ModdedEuros]

Would look at UniConnect so you can now flash Unitronic software right at home. We have been doing it on every one of our cars here as well as it is selling out quickly as the days of needing to go to a shop to get flashed are really over. You can flash a car in all of 20min yourself to whatever stage file you get and than back to stock if needed.

You just need the UniConnect device

Unitronic UniConnect+ Programming Tool - More info here


and than whatever flash file you want
https://www.moddedeuros.com/audi/s4/b8-10-13/tuning

[Jv218]

@boro92

He was unitronic tuned but switched to GIAC because he wasn't happy with Uni's throttle mapping. Thread is on audi revolution titled "Question to guys with a tune" if you would like to read his opinion of the tune.


@DGVR6 also has UNI, believe 6MT guy IIRC and he's run some decent pump times. I can't speak on reliability or drivability for UNI though

I'll have to look it up thanks.


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[CPBRI]

Just had the APR flash done yesterday. Does add a nice punch above 4K rpm. Have not noticed any drive issues. Still seems stock in the lower rpms. Got stuck in stop-and-go traffic this morning and all seemed normal.

[XLR8 Craig]

We have had nothing but great success with APR software which is all we flash with here. If you have any questions or concerns, I would be happy to help you.

Thanks,

Greg

[email protected]
Web Store

[bhvrdr]

Hello all,

There are many posts with regards to this topic, but they're mainly focused on WHP and trap speeds.

I'm looking for your feedback with Stage 1 ECU/TCU tunes (on a 3.0T w/ DCT) from different companies as specifically related to reliability and drivability. There are many options out there including APR, GIAC, REVO, Stasis, Chipwerke, and I want to pick the right one.

Here's what I prioritize:

Reliability - Have any of these ECU/TCU tunes caused any related expensive repairs? Have any of these been flagged TD1 by dealerships (I do plan on flashing back to stock for service.)

Reliability
For overall reliability ALL of the available options have shown top track records. There has not been a single tune out there proven to have contributed to significant mechanical failures. The only possible increased wear items that were identified is possibly catalytic converters failing at a slightly higher rate but even that is questionable as the stock tune cars have had a couple failures.

For stealth there are two top options:
-Chipwerke (safest from detect-ability. no changes to OEM code ever made. no "logs" showing higher than OEM values)
-APR (second stealthiest - resets flash counter, WSC code, flash dates, automatically mades sure your exact stock OEM flash revision is put back on)

Drivability - Do any of these ECU/TCU tunes have driving quirks to them? Partial throttle jumpiness or hesitation? Other DCT wonkiness?

I'm not as concerned with the price differences, eeking out the most WHP/WTQ, 0-60 times, ET or trap speeds. I'm just looking for an extremely reliable ECU/TCU tune combo that drives smoothly. Thanks in advance.

-For driveability, it seems there has been the least amount of complaints on the GIAC ECU and TCU combinations.
-There have been a few issues of drive-ability and functioning some features of the Revo, EPL, and APR TCU tune. This is somewhat rare but posted more often than with GIAC.
- Chipwerke would be your worst of these options as it has the most frequent rate of complaints regarding jerkiness at shifts (this applies to DSG vehicles obviously). It also is not offered as a TCU tune. Just a power adder/ECU type tune.

Good luck!

Mike

[Arin@APR]

By the way guys, I don't want to mislead people with the poll above. The poll is asking if you had any issues with a specific tune, not if you recommend it. Sorry about that

Based on the results, it looks like people are just clicking on the tune they have.

[garynagra]

I thought the poll was asking about reliability of tune smh really confusing

[doug97gxe]

keyword is "issues" ... reliability issues or driveability issues .. everyone just honed in on reliability and click their tune.. this poll needs to be reset .. i knew the poll was screwed up when the vendors clicked their tunes

[LordMagnet]

I almost voted just based on the thread's title. Good thing I reviewed the poll's title, which is sort of the opposite.

APR stage 1 ECU for 7 months now. Not a single issue, just all smiles. The car feels better in every way, and should come from the dealership like this. Will be going APR stage 2 after winter ends.

[MichaelBrown86]

I'm in the market for ECU and TCU Software, but the price differences are absolutely crazy between APR, Unitronics, GIAC, and REVO.

So far, my price checking has led to:
APR ECU - $1300
APR TCU - $1000
Total - $2300


Unitronics ECU - $1100
Unitronics TCU - $700
Total - $1800

GIAC ECU - $990
GIAC TCU - $700
Total - $1700

Revo ECU - $1000
Revo TCU - $400
Total - $1400


Why is APR between $600-900 more expensive than everyone else, and if all things being equal (power being comparable and reliability not an issue), why wouldn't I just go with Revo solely based on their competitive pricing?

[MSq5]

I read this poll as meaning that you should select a tune if it DID cause drivability issues. That's why I voted Chipwerke.

If you have any form of auto shifting transmission, Chipwerke Pro will cause drivability issues, IMHO. I tried it. Power was good, drivability was terrible, especially at part throttle. I do have a different transmission, however than in S4 cars - ZF 8 speed.

I ended up going with EPL for the convenience of map swapping from home by laptop. Some say it leaves a little power on the table compared to some other tunes. That may have once been the case, but I'm not so sure anymore. I can say that it is smooth as silk and has no drivability issues whatsoever. It integrates with the auto tranny perfectly. I'm now at stage 2, but for those considering either stage, it has proven an excellent choice.

[AeyBeCei]

+1 epl no complaints here

[Nillamb]

I went APR stage 2 ECU (crank pulley) and APR TCU not long after I acquired this car. I never posted a review because it would only have echoed what other have said; it totally transforms the way the car accelerates. I thought the stock S4 was a bit limp if I'm being honest (to be fair, this is coming from an XFR and a briefly owned 8P RS3). It had a serious torque deficit and Audi "designed out" any enjoyable top end. Post remap, the S4 feels comfortably in the same ballpark as the 500 BHP 5l V8 XFR did.

I've only noticed one "drivability" quirk and oddly, my last remapped S4 (B7) did the same; when accelerating and the accelerator is pressed a good way past the point at which would hold me at the speed I'm going, backing out the throttle is not very graceful. When I start to lift, I continue to get near full acceleration until very near the point at which I need the accelerator to be for constant speed, at which point the acceleration drops off fast enough to "nod the head". It can be modulated by backing out the throttle carefully, but it's tricky. Before the remap, backing out the throttle would result in a smooth reduction of acceleration until the accelerator was at the point required for constant speed. A minor irritation in the greater scheme of things, but an irritation nonetheless.

I'm not a fan of the TCU tune. It's not bad, but it's not what I was hoping for my personal driving situation. I'm sure it's great if you're tracking or quarter mile-ing, but day to day a) it doesn't fix the S4's rabid determination get into the highest gear possible at the earliest possible time. APR claim it does, but I can't feel it. The car is so damn determined to get into top, it'll even change up way too early under moderate acceleration (e.g. stock behaviour). b) when the car is cold (forgivable as it's not cold for long) and accelerating gently (say in a car park), it grabs 2nd with sufficient gusto to accelerate the car more than intended. c) I just feel like I've lost a small degree of smoothness. Nothing even remotely concerning (I'm being super fussy) but it's there. I just have that feeling that, without tracking or dragging the car, I spent a bunch of money on a TCU tune to make the car ever so slightly worse.

I should also note, that I haven't taken the car back to be looked at since the map; I guess it's not impossible that something is amiss - but the issues are so slight, I doubt there is anything mechanically wrong.

As I say, super picky on the above and I'd go Stage 2 again in a heartbeat (I'd forgo the TCU tune, however).

[ixez]

Had EPL Stage 1 + TCU tune for a while until upgraded to Stage 2+.
EPL Stage 1 worked very well and definitely better than APR Stage 1 on my buddy's A6.