Have to almost put my foot through the floor on the clutch to start car

[Vogz]

About 2 months ago I started noticing that from time to time when I would depress the clutch to start the car, it wouldn't crank. I would push my foot down a little more and it would start right up. I figured I was just getting lazy with my clutch foot. 2 months later, the only time it's easy to get the car started is when it's cold. If it's warmed up I have to push the clutch pedal as hard as I can to get the car to crank.

I looked under the dash for a pressure switch (older manual trans cars had them to let the car know that the clutch was depressed for starting) behind the clutch pedal that might have needed adjusting and found nothing. My car was going in right before the New Year last week for it's final 45K mile AudiCare service, so I figured I'd mention it to them since they see these cars all the time and maybe it was something stupid.

Dealer was very nice and bleed my clutch for free (didn't even need it since it had been bled when the EuroCode clutch was installed in March), and that didn't fix it, so they told me the next thing on the factory service manual flow chart was to replace the clutch and flywheel which they could do for the bargain price of $4900. I politely told them no thank you and went on my way thinking they were crazy.

My EuroCode Stage 3 clutch/flywheel only have about 5k miles on them and the setup is operating perfectly.

Does anyone know where the sensor is that lets the car know that the clutch is disengaged?

I found one thread on another Aud*World about this same issue but it was with a perfectly operating stock clutch that had 40K miles on it. The fix ended up being a new clutch which doesn't make any sense to me.

[14S4GWM]

Couple of threads recently about this. @Jimrobbington

Edit

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...feature-glitch

[DGVR6]

Someone said they replaced the master cylinder and it fixed that issue .
Same thing.. New EC stage3 clutch and he started to get the issue soon after.

[Vogz]

Couple of threads recently about this. @Jimrobbington

Edit

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...feature-glitch

Thanks! Read the OPs post a few days ago and thought it was push button related so I stopped reading. So I guess the clutch switch is part of the master cylinder. ugh....sounds like a super fun job.


EDIT: So apparently it could also be the clutch fork/pivot ball....

Guess I'll try the master cylinder first.

[jimrobbington]

Couple of threads recently about this. @Jimrobbington

Edit

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...feature-glitch

Thanks!

Thanks! Read the OPs post a few days ago and thought it was push button related so I stopped reading. So I guess the clutch switch is part of the master cylinder. ugh....sounds like a super fun job.


EDIT: So apparently it could also be the clutch fork/pivot ball....

Guess I'll try the master cylinder first.

Dude, hold up. Don't start throwing parts at it yet. That sounds exactly like what happened to me.

Couple questions:

When your new clutch was installed, do you recall noticing the clutch pedal travel was SHORTER than oem?

How many miles on the new clutch? Nevermind, reread, 5k. Lol.

[14S4GWM]

No problem Jim, here to help out where I can.

[Vogz]

Thanks!

Dude, hold up. Don't start throwing parts at it yet. That sounds exactly like what happened to me.

Couple questions:

When your new clutch was installed, do you recall noticing the clutch pedal travel was SHORTER than oem?

How many miles on the new clutch? Nevermind, reread, 5k. Lol.

Clutch pedal travel felt the same pre and post clutch install.

I won't be throwing parts at it just yet. I'll probably want until I can't actually start the car anymore and then go from there, lol. Hopefully that is in the spring so I can just drive the Turbo instead.

[jimrobbington]

So supposedly, the bleeding test the dealer did was because of a TSB on the master cylinder. They have someone push in the clutch to where it stops but still won't start. Then someone bleeds the line to allow the pedal to go in further. If the car then starts, the master is at fault. However, if it still doesn't start, then they will blame the clutch/fw. They did it to my car a week after they themselves installed it.

[jimrobbington]

Clutch pedal travel felt the same pre and post clutch install.

I won't be throwing parts at it just yet. I'll probably want until I can't actually start the car anymore and then go from there, lol. Hopefully that is in the spring so I can just drive the Turbo instead.

That's exactly what I did. Not sure if you read my update this weekend, but something eventually "popped" in my clutch pedal when pushing hard on it, and everything went back to normal like it never happened. Weirdest few weeks I've ever experienced with clutch issues. My pedal travel is now longer than stock, when it felt shorter at first, but everything so far so good since. ..

[Vogz]

That's exactly what I did. Not sure if you read my update this weekend, but something eventually "popped" in my clutch pedal when pushing hard on it, and everything went back to normal like it never happened. Weirdest few weeks I've ever experienced with clutch issues. My pedal travel is now longer than stock, when it felt shorter at first, but everything so far so good since. ..

Now that is just weird. I guess I'll see what happens. So far I've always been able to start it.

[jimrobbington]

Now that is just weird. I guess I'll see what happens. So far I've always been able to start it.

Right, I was still scared to trust it for a while. But I met up with a long time trusted mechanic friend who checked it out, and tried to explain what he thought happened.

He believes that something in the install likely wasn't completely seated properly. He is guessing one finger on the pressure plate or something like that was causing the clutch to come out at a slight angle when pressing the pedal in. This made no difference when the clutch was engaged, and still made 100% contact with the flywheel, but when disengaging the clutch, it would bind when you pressed the pedal in, but after the clutch was engaged. He believes that my car was probably barely starting to begin with, UT was just barely allowing it. After 300 miles of break I, that 1/10 of a mm of wear on the surface of the clutch was enough to change the distance of the master piston to no longer sense the clutch was pressed in far enough.

The "pop" I actually felt was this piece that wasn't first quite right actually snapping into place appropriately, thus relieving the jam and allowing the clutch to travel fully on its natural path. Actually makes pretty damn good sense. So he thinks it pretty much fixed itself, and I would like to believe that's true at this point. Everything feels great. I do have to push the pedal in slightly more than oem I think to start it, but he said if he didn't know anything had ever went wrong, he thought the pedal, travel, actuation, starting, etc all felt very normal.

[Vogz]

Right, I was still scared to trust it for a while. But I met up with a long time trusted mechanic friend who checked it out, and tried to explain what he thought happened.

He believes that something in the install likely wasn't completely seated properly. He is guessing one finger on the pressure plate or something like that was causing the clutch to come out at a slight angle when pressing the pedal in. This made no difference when the clutch was engaged, and still made 100% contact with the flywheel, but when disengaging the clutch, it would bind when you pressed the pedal in, but after the clutch was engaged. He believes that my car was probably barely starting to begin with, UT was just barely allowing it. After 300 miles of break I, that 1/10 of a mm of wear on the surface of the clutch was enough to change the distance of the master piston to no longer sense the clutch was pressed in far enough.

The "pop" I actually felt was this piece that wasn't first quite right actually snapping into place appropriately, thus relieving the jam and allowing the clutch to travel fully on its natural path. Actually makes pretty damn good sense. So he thinks it pretty much fixed itself, and I would like to believe that's true at this point. Everything feels great. I do have to push the pedal in slightly more than oem I think to start it, but he said if he didn't know anything had ever went wrong, he thought the pedal, travel, actuation, starting, etc all felt very normal.

If that's the case, then my issue is probably something else. If I had to guess I'd go with clutch fork/pivot ball or the master cylinder. My car was perfect for the first 7 months that the clutch was in there.

[infinkc]

If that's the case, then my issue is probably something else. If I had to guess I'd go with clutch fork/pivot ball or the master cylinder. My car was perfect for the first 7 months that the clutch was in there.

Im changing the master on mine next.

I posted about my issue also.

TLDR; My car started having this problem with the stock clutch, would come and go. I put in a JHM fly and clutch and new clutch fork, problem went away for 5k. Problem is back now.

I am kinda at a lost also what the issue is, but it all points to the switch on the master. I really want to get my hands on a master and see what the switch is actually reading and at what point it activates.

[Ze_Nardo6]

Replacing master cylinder fixed my issue. HOWEVER, my situation was slightly different. There seem to be 2 types of failures after aftermarket clutches are installed. My car wouldn't start no matter how hard I depressed the clutch pedal and the dash read "please depress clutch pedal to start car" when I was attempting to start vehicle. MOST OF THE TIME, when this alert pops up, it is the master cylinder. Your situation sounds more like the clutch fork issue. That is not to say that a new master cylinder won't fix your issue.

[S4'ed]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...t=clutch+start

Same issues in above thread

[DGVR6]

Im changing the master on mine next.

I posted about my issue also.

TLDR; My car started having this problem with the stock clutch, would come and go. I put in a JHM fly and clutch and new clutch fork, problem went away for 5k. Problem is back now.

I am kinda at a lost also what the issue is, but it all points to the switch on the master. I really want to get my hands on a master and see what the switch is actually reading and at what point it activates.

Kris, I know you've been going deep into this issue.
Do you know what sensor triggers the anti stall feature during engagement?

I've possibly linked it to the reason why I have to stomp the clutch to get it started. It's also worse in freezing temps.
But I've noticed that the feature is gone in my car unless I seriously stand on the clutch and get into first just like starting the car.. If I do that it works.
Other than that I've been driving it like a regular manual.

[S4'ed]

Info on the clutch master cylinder switches/sensors:

The clutch master cylinder has three Hall switches integrated into it. A Hall switch is a solid state device that detects when a magnet is brought near it.

The master cylinder piston has a magnet in it, and as it moves it activates one of the three hall switches, which are mounted in the wall of the cylinder bore, along the stroke path of the piston.

- F36 Switch is "normally-closed" at the fully-released pedal position, which is used to disengage the cruise when you depress the pedal. T6g/2 or /3
- G476 Switch is the "clutch position sensor" at the approximate clutch engagement point, somewhere in the middle of the pedal travel. This is used for the throttle blip during a shift, and the auto parking brake release. T6g/5
- F194 Switch is the starter interlock, at the fully depressed pedal position. T6g/2 or /3

If something is binding in the clutch mechanism (inside the bell-housing : Clutch Fork, Fork pivot bearings, throw-out bearing, pressure plate release fingers/spring) that causes the slave cylinder to not move through it's full normal travel, then the master cylinder won't move through its full travel, and the F194 switch does not get activated, and the car will not start.

Audi may have redesigned the master cylinder to move the position of the F194 Hall switch slightly closer "in", so that normal clutch mechanism wear will still allow the F194 switch to be tripped when the pedal is fully depressed.

A "quickey" fix might be to unbolt the slave cylinder from the bell-housing, and grind-off a millimeter of the end of the piston rod. This would allow the master cylinder to move a millimeter further when the pedal is fully depressed, which might be enough to reliably trip the F194 switch.

[DGVR6]

Thanks s4'ed
Wonder if it would have anything to do with the USP line ..

Everything points to the master cylinder, I doubt anything is binding in the bell housing. It's just been 2000 miles since everything was replaced and even so had issues with the stock clutch.

One other thing to note, master cylinder has been revised quite a few times now.

8K1721401A
8K1721401B
8K1721401D
8K1721401E
8K1721401G
8K1721401H

[jimrobbington]

If something is binding in the clutch mechanism (inside the bell-housing : Clutch Fork, Fork pivot bearings, throw-out bearing, pressure plate release fingers/spring) that causes the slave cylinder to not move through it's full normal travel, then the master cylinder won't move through its full travel, and the F194 switch does not get activated, and the car will not start.

This is EXACTLY what happened to me! 300 miles into break in on new clutch, can't start. It was explained that this was just enough wear on the surface, so the master no longer tripped the sensor.

Mashing on the pedal to start it for another 400-500 miles, something "popped" and I got my pedal back. It was explained to me that most likely, whatever it was was probably pressure plate fingers or throwout bearing snapping into their proper place, once again allowing pedal full motion. Still boggles my mind.

Thanks s4'ed
Wonder if it would have anything to do with the USP line ..

Everything points to the master cylinder, I doubt anything is binding in the bell housing. It's just been 2000 miles since everything was replaced and even so had issues with the stock clutch.

One other thing to note, master cylinder has been revised quite a few times now.

8K1721401A
8K1721401B
8K1721401D
8K1721401E
8K1721401G
8K1721401H

I also did the USP line, but I don't think that has anything to do with it.

[audistealth]

Thanks s4'ed
Wonder if it would have anything to do with the USP line ..

Everything points to the master cylinder, I doubt anything is binding in the bell housing. It's just been 2000 miles since everything was replaced and even so had issues with the stock clutch.

One other thing to note, master cylinder has been revised quite a few times now.

8K1721401A
8K1721401B
8K1721401D
8K1721401E
8K1721401G
8K1721401H

That is a lot of revisions. Same as RS5, or did anyone go that route?

[Vogz]

That is a lot of revisions. Same as RS5, or did anyone go that route?

RS5 is DSG only, no?

[audistealth]

RS5 is DSG only, no?

Yup, my mistake! I think I must have been thinking it was larger due to stock brakes and more pressure would solve the problem. But with no clutch, that logic kind of falls apart.

Who knows what I was thinking...

[DGVR6]

I actually replaced the battery and flashed back to stock.
Soft reset adaptions via vag com, but for some reason it wouldn't let me reset the clutch position on its own.

A few days later I lost the programmed throttle blip.

Edit: it works perfectly fine the first 5-10 mins into driving .. After that it goes away.

[EHesh14]

I also had this issue of the clutch not fully engaging and tried more than 20 times to start my car after getting jhm's clutch and flywheel. Took it in to the shop that Installed it and they adjusted the pedal, but also told me if the issue arises again that they would need to replace the master cylinder to a metal one.

[infinkc]

I also had this issue of the clutch not fully engaging and tried more than 20 times to start my car after getting jhm's clutch and flywheel. Took it in to the shop that Installed it and they adjusted the pedal, but also told me if the issue arises again that they would need to replace the master cylinder to a metal one.

odd, there is no adjustment for the clutch pedal, and a metal master this is the first i have heard one one.

[S4'ed]

Audi has also redesigned the fork and the throw-out bearing a few times. I think that Audi does not yet have a correct solution to this problem, and probably never will, as they have moved-on to the B9 (unless it still uses this manual transmission).

[S4'ed]

I also had this issue of the clutch not fully engaging and tried more than 20 times to start my car after getting jhm's clutch and flywheel. Took it in to the shop that Installed it and they adjusted the pedal, but also told me if the issue arises again that they would need to replace the master cylinder to a metal one.

Your shop is BSing you....there is no clutch or pedal adjustment....or a metal master clutch cylinder.....they just have no clue how to fix it...and neither do the Audi Engineers.......

[jimrobbington]

Audi has also redesigned the fork and the throw-out bearing a few times. I think that Audi does not yet have a correct solution to this problem, and probably never will, as they have moved-on to the B9 (unless it still uses this manual transmission).

That could be why some people like me have issues after upgrading. We get a new revised clutch fork installed, but still have original master, changing the throw of the piston maybe?

[S4'ed]

That could be why some people like me have issues after upgrading. We get a new revised clutch fork installed, but still have original master, changing the throw of the piston maybe?

Yes, the new-design fork and throw-out bearing might work better with a new-design master cylinder.....maybe even also with the latest design slave cylinder...
Who knows, maybe the pressure plate design, and or flywheel was revised as part of a cure for this no-start issue.

[jimrobbington]

Yes, the new-design fork and throw-out bearing might work better with a new-design master cylinder.....maybe even also with the latest design slave cylinder...
Who knows, maybe the pressure plate design, and or flywheel was revised as part of a cure for this no-start issue.

So seriously, did we really just identify the actual cause of most people's clutch issues (specifically those who upgrade their clutch, then have this happen) ?

I would venture to guess that if anyone upgrades their clutch and fork but does not update their master cylinder, after X amount of miles, they all almost certainly will experience a no start issue at some point, when the clutch wears deep enough to stop hitting the sensor.

[audistealth]

So basically, do PP, clutch, throwout bearing, master cylinder, slave, and fork?

[jimrobbington]

So basically, do PP, clutch, throwout bearing, master cylinder, slave, and fork?

And then make damn sure that everything is completely snapped in place too. Lol.

[Vogz]

I spoke with the shop foreman at my dealer yesterday at length about this issue. The reason he recommended a new clutch was because my engagement point felt "weird" and abrupt to him. He was not aware that I had an aftermarket clutch installed 7 months prior. With that information he no longer thinks the clutch itself is the issue. He said he has seen this issue before but only a handful of times and every time the updated fork and taller pivot ball plus a new clutch (all decided to replace clutch since trans was out anyway) fixed the issue. I told him I was worried that the car eventually wouldn't start. He didn't seem to concerned about that.

So, at this point I'm just going to let it ride. I'll install the USP clutch line as soon as my 911 is off of my lift and hope that it helps a tad. Other than that I've just going to resign to pushing the pedal harder to start the car.

[infinkc]

Digging further, it seems some of the prior information i had found was incorrect. So this post will server as the latest information.

Had a free minute this weekend, so i grabbed my vagcom to see when the switches activate.

The F36 (block 271)"Press pedal to start", Starter control switch activates when you press the pedal down slightly, also use for cruise control.

The F194(block 272), "fully depressed" starter control, interlock switch activated when i pressed the clutch through the floor. So this is the issue at least with my car.

Here is a screenshot of the vagcom blocks, the last digit will turn to a 1 when it detect the switch active.



Did more diffing and found out this info: S

Clutch pedal sender -G476

The clutch position sender -G476 (-3-) incorporates three switching functions and is only fitted in vehicles with manual gearbox:

- Send a PWM signal to the electric parking and hand brake control unit -J540.

- F194 clutch pedal switch for engine start (P/N interlock shift signal; this signal is necessary to be able to start the engine). This signal is also used for the convenience system central module -J393 (BCM2).

- F36 clutch pedal switch deactivates the load change functions during gear-shifting. The load change function is controlled by way of the ignition timing angle and throttle closing speed. In case of incorrect fitting, electrical malfunction or misoperation (driver leaving foot on clutch pedal) jolting on load change or overshooting of the engine speed may occur.


"The PWM signal characteristic shown can be measured when the clutch is pressed down to the end position.

If a signal characteristic is measured matching the one shown, the measured signal is OK."


"The PWM signal characteristic shown can be measured when the clutch is not pressed.

If a signal characteristic is measured matching the one shown, the measured signal is OK."



Ton more info on the master.

The clutch position sender G476
The clutch position sender is clipped onto the master
cylinder. This sender detects when the clutch pedal is
actuated.
The signal from the clutch position sender is used:
● for engine start,
● to switch off the cruise control system,
● to reduce the injection volume briefly and thereby
prevent engine jolts during gear changes and
● for the "dynamic drive-off assist" function of the
electromechanical parking brake.

Design
The master cylinder is attached to the bearing bracket
via a bayonet connection.
When the clutch pedal is actuated, the plunger moves
the piston in the master cylinder.



SO:
Hall sender 1 - F36 switch
Hall sender 2 - G476 switch
Hall sender 3 - F194 switch

S4'ed, how did you determine what switch went to what wire location? I got confused cause on the schematic, the bottom labels look like they are going to different locations.
per your comments
" - F36 Switch is "normally-closed" at the fully-released pedal position, which is used to disengage the cruise when you depress the pedal. T6g/2 or /3
- G476 Switch is the "clutch position sensor" at the approximate clutch engagement point, somewhere in the middle of the pedal travel. This is used for the throttle blip during a shift, and the auto parking brake release. T6g/5
- F194 Switch is the starter interlock, at the fully depressed pedal position. T6g/2 or /3"


So given that the master is a fixed rod with a magnet that passes by hall sensors, why is this last "hall sender 3" not activating properly is the million $ question? Is there like a spring in the master that is not allowing the piston to go all the way to the "hall sender 3" if it detects more "pressure"? This is what i am thinking.

The pedal travel to me is the same as its always been, and if its a fixed position the clutch assembly should not even come into play at all.


What are your guys thoughts now that we know all this?

Also given what we know about these Hall switches, why not just jumper the F36 to the F194 switch if we have this problem? I think this is what i will be doing. I really need to get my hands on a master cylinder and dissect it to see how its acting inside, this would tell me for sure if there is something that prevents the piston from going all the way based on added pressure.

[S4'ed]

If something is binding in the clutch mechanism (Fork, fork pivot, throw-out bearing, pressure plate springs) then the slave cylinder can't move through its full travel (to its normal end-stop), that prevents the master cylinder from moving through its full normal travel, and therefore its piston won't come close enough to Hall sender #3 (starter enable) to trip it.

Its not a "pressure thing" : clutch fluid can't be compressed. The Master cylinder piston only can move as far as the slave cylinder piston allows it, and the slave cylinder piston can only move as far as the mechanical clutch linkage parts allow it to move.

If the restricted travel is say 1mm, probably enough to not-trip Hall Sender #3, do you really think you would feel that 1mm less of travel in the clutch pedal???

[infinkc]

If something is binding in the clutch mechanism (Fork, fork pivot, throw-out bearing, pressure plate springs) then the slave cylinder can't move through its full travel (to its normal end-stop), that prevents the master cylinder from moving through its full normal travel, and therefore its piston won't come close enough to Hall sender #3 (starter enable) to trip it.

Its not a "pressure thing" : clutch fluid can't be compressed. The Master cylinder piston only can move as far as the slave cylinder piston allows it, and the slave cylinder piston can only move as far as the mechanical clutch linkage parts allow it to move.

If the restricted travel is say 1mm, probably enough to not-trip Hall Sender #3, do you really think you would feel that 1mm less of travel in the clutch pedal???

Explain to me, i am not understanding how you are coming to the reasoning of the master cylinder only going as far as the slave allows. Not sure if i am missing something. If the rod in the master is being pressed down with the pedal, and if you are at the floor in the car, that means that the rod is truly at the end of travel, hence the master cylinder piston is at the end of its travel also.

If i remember correctly, when the "switch" is working properly, you dont have to have the pedal even close to the floor to start the car, so this is why i think there is some "pressure" device that is holding back the magnet inside the master.

if the magnet was truly fixed inside, the distance you press down the pedal should never change regardless.

i can see your reasoning if the slave had the hall switch in it, and the master was not providing enough fluid to extend it all the way.

if something in the clutch assembly was binding, wouldn't that cause the pedal to not to be able to go close to the floor? i always thought there was X ammount of fluid in the master, slave and line, that amount of fluid dictates the movement of the assembly. what you are saying is that there is excess fluid being bled off somewhere when the assembly detects binding?

[S4'ed]

Imagine you had purely a mechanical linkage between the pedal and the clutch pressure plate (no hydraulics in-between). Now, can you envision that if the pressure plate can't move as far as it should, then the pedal wouldn't move as far as it should?

Well the hydraulics don't act any different than a full mechanical linkage, if you assume that the fluid does not compress (and there are no air bubbles in the fluid). Also, there is no spring between the pedal and the master cylinder piston, that could compress if you apply more pressure to the pedal. (other than unwanted deflection of the pedal mechanism).

When the No-Start issue occurs, the end stop you feel, at the fully depressed clutch position is not the pedal hitting the floor, it is that the clutch mechanism isn't moving as far as it normally does...perhaps a mm or two shorter travel than the pedal travel being stopped by the floor. This is evidenced in the Audi troubleshhoting procedure, in the TSB, where they instruct Tech#1 to depress the clutch pedal fully, observe the No Start condition, then while Tech #1 still holds the pedal fully depressed, have a 2nd Tech open the bleeder valve on the slave cylinder (which then allows the pedal to move that additional small distance) which then activates the start-switch.

[infinkc]

Imagine you had purely a mechanical linkage between the pedal and the clutch pressure plate (no hydraulics in-between). Now, can you envision that if the pressure plate can't move as far as it should, then the pedal wouldn't move as far as it should?

Well the hydraulics don't act any different than a full mechanical linkage, if you assume that the fluid does not compress (and there are no air bubbles in the fluid). Also, there is no spring between the pedal and the master cylinder piston, that could compress if you apply more pressure to the pedal. (other than unwanted deflection of the pedal mechanism).

When the No-Start issue occurs, the end stop you feel, at the fully depressed clutch position is not the pedal hitting the floor, it is that the clutch mechanism isn't moving as far as it normally does...perhaps a mm or two shorter travel than the pedal travel being stopped by the floor. This is evidenced in the Audi troubleshhoting procedure, in the TSB, where they instruct Tech#1 to depress the clutch pedal fully, observe the No Start condition, then while Tech #1 still holds the pedal fully depressed, have a 2nd Tech open the bleeder valve on the slave cylinder (which then allows the pedal to move that additional small distance) which then activates the start-switch.

thanks for the clarification, makes more sense now.

So i guess this can be fixed by allowing a little air to get into the line?

I still could have sworn, that you dont have to press nearly as far down to start the car though. I need to find someone local with a 6MT to see where theirs activates with the vagcom in relation to how far the pedal is pressed down.

[S4'ed]

I can suggest 3 "fixes" for this problem. I have not tried any of these....these fixes are theoretical :

1) Remove the rubber gasket between the Master Cylinder and the firewall, which would allow a small increase in the piston travel. Goto the ECS tuning website, and look at the picture of the Master Cylinder, to see the greyish gasket on the black plastic part body. One could use a bit of RTV, instead of the gasket, to maintain the seal on the firewall.

2) Perhaps a better fix : Unbolt the slave cylinder from the transmission, and grind off a little bit of the tip of the piston rod end (the end that sticks into the transmission, which engages the fork). Maybe start with 0.5 mm, and try it. Alternatively, you could elongate the two mounting holes of the slave body, so you can remount and slide the slave a little further back (towards the rear of the car).

3) The Hall sender (contains the 3 sensors in one plastic molded module) looks like it is clipped onto the side of Master Cylinder body (plastic). Modify the Hall module body, or its "socket" on the Master Cylinder body, so that the Hall Sender is moved a little closer to the firewall-facing end of the Master Cylinder body. Perhaps a little grinding with a Dremel tool would do the trick.

[infinkc]

I can suggest 3 "fixes" for this problem. I have not tried any of these....these fixes are theoretical :

1) Remove the rubber gasket between the Master Cylinder and the firewall, which would allow a small increase in the piston travel. Goto the ECS tuning website, and look at the picture of the Master Cylinder, to see the greyish gasket on the black plastic part body. One could use a bit of RTV, instead of the gasket, to maintain the seal on the firewall.

2) Perhaps a better fix : Unbolt the slave cylinder from the transmission, and grind off a little bit of the tip of the piston rod end (the end that sticks into the transmission, which engages the fork). Maybe start with 0.5 mm, and try it. Alternatively, you could elongate the two mounting holes of the slave body, so you can remount and slide the slave a little further back (towards the rear of the car).

3) The Hall sender (contains the 3 sensors in one plastic molded module) looks like it is clipped onto the side of Master Cylinder body (plastic). Modify the Hall module body, or its "socket" on the Master Cylinder body, so that the Hall Sender is moved a little closer to the firewall-facing end of the Master Cylinder body. Perhaps a little grinding with a Dremel tool would do the trick.

I thought about 2&3 also, not sure i 1 would work as i think how the master mounts, it needs that extra distance to stay in place.

I will examine both options when i have time to put my ss line in.

Why do you think this problem is happening? aftermarket clutch and pp are not at the same height specs as oem?