Driver side inner tire alignment issue

[cjt671]

Just want some feedback before I get an alignment. My options in the area are a local alignment and brake shop, and a les schwab...

The pic is the driver side front tire off my old wheels, new set of wheels is showing the same kind of wear just not through to the belt yet. Do you guys think it's a toe issue?

[Turbo_B5]

Alignment printout?

[Bordom]

Toe out issue. Guaranteed

[james 408]

uh, lol. that's a camber issue bro. not a toe issue. toe can exacerbate it (and does), but ultimately that's too much negative camber for you. If you take alot of corners at race pace, that would even out, but for most drivers having more than 1degree of negative camber will result in the above. camber is not adjustable on stock control arms. Lowering the car causes this. can correct with adjustable control arms and an alignment, or raise the car back up.

[Bordom]

uh, lol. that's a camber issue bro. not a toe issue. toe can exacerbate it (and does), but ultimately that's too much negative camber for you. If you take alot of corners at race pace, that would even out, but for most drivers having more than 1degree of negative camber will result in the above. camber is not adjustable on stock control arms. Lowering the car causes this. can correct with adjustable control arms and an alignment, or raise the car back up.

No, he's not even that low. Plus, it would also present itself on the passenger side but it's isolated to the driver side.

I guarantee it'll be toe out when he gets new tires and the alignment sheet.

My A4 was about his height and the front wheels wore very even. I didn't align the rear when I did the coilovers. So when it dropped, it toed out the rear and gave similar wear to what he is experiencing.

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

[james 408]

i hear ya.

camber isn't even between sides necessarily stock. you can shift the cradle to even it out. camber is the measure of the top of the tire relative to the bottom of the tire -- the direct measurement that causes tire wear to be too far to the inside or the outside.

toe is the angle of the front vs rear of the tire, if it were out, it would cause the front of the tires to face outwards. this could in theory cause the tire to roll towards the inside and wear the inside, but toe just causes the tire to scrub more, and i've never seen the impact of wearing the inside more than the outside independently of a camber issue. Absent the car having never been aligned, i wouldn't expect that to be the case as this is the only thing alignment shops ever do unless you force them to. driving a car without an alignment is just craziness.

I've run cars with 3/8" toe out, and negative 2 degrees camber, and still worn the outside edges of the tires. Driving patterns matter too. So it's entirely possible he's just hitting too many left handed corners.

[cjt671]

Alignment printout?

Haven't got one yet, I'm not to savvy on alignments and I dislike taking my car to shops so I just want as much info as possible before I go in on Wednesday to get it checked out

[cjt671]

Toe out issue. Guaranteed

I'll post the sheet up when I get it, I'm sure the local shop should be able to handle adjusting the toe.. And I'll talk to them to see if they can check raised toe value as well.. I just don't want to have some shop touch the car because it drives perfectly .-.

[cjt671]

i hear ya.

camber isn't even between sides necessarily stock. you can shift the cradle to even it out. camber is the measure of the top of the tire relative to the bottom of the tire -- the direct measurement that causes tire wear to be too far to the inside or the outside.

toe is the angle of the front vs rear of the tire, if it were out, it would cause the front of the tires to face outwards. this could in theory cause the tire to roll towards the inside and wear the inside, but toe just causes the tire to scrub more, and i've never seen the impact of wearing the inside more than the outside independently of a camber issue. Absent the car having never been aligned, i wouldn't expect that to be the case as this is the only thing alignment shops ever do unless you force them to. driving a car without an alignment is just craziness.

I've run cars with 3/8" toe out, and negative 2 degrees camber, and still worn the outside edges of the tires. Driving patterns matter too. So it's entirely possible he's just hitting too many left handed corners.

Thanks for the input man, The car tracks straight and handles perfectly fine imo which is why I wanted some insight because I had assumed that if I had an alignment issue I would be able to feel it in the way the car drives, also I don't consider my self to be an aggressive driver... But that's all relative

[cjt671]

uh, lol. that's a camber issue bro. not a toe issue. toe can exacerbate it (and does), but ultimately that's too much negative camber for you. If you take alot of corners at race pace, that would even out, but for most drivers having more than 1degree of negative camber will result in the above. camber is not adjustable on stock control arms. Lowering the car causes this. can correct with adjustable control arms and an alignment, or raise the car back up.

Like bordom said, my car is far from low enough to have created enough negative camber to be considered detrimental to tire wear. It's slightly lower than sport suspension.. I've seen negative camber wear and this just doesn't look like it to me.. It's not a patch of the inner tread worn lower than the outer tread but a section of the inner shoulder worn to the belts..

[cjt671]

Got an appointment Thursday to get everything checked out. will post results

[MikeK]

Did you ever post any results?
My C6 series A6 has the same wear pattern - completely stock and driven by my wife. Car tracks and steers without issue. The inside corners of both front tires are worn to the belts - didn't notice it until I got under the car to check the inner pads. I'd like to have an idea of the root cause before I take it to a shop.

[MacDaddy]

if it was toe then both would be worn evenly and the steering wheel would be off center, if one side is out the tires will naturally point themselves at the same angle.

im going to say the front subframe is shifted all the way over to one side so you have one wheel standing up and the other one is leaned in.

alignment on these cars is done by shifting the subframe to make camber the same on both sides, then the toe is set, then the car is raised up 30MM by the subframe and the raised toe alignment is done where the tire rods are adjusted vertically (the bolt on the top of the end of the tie rod is there to assist with this). this is done so that as the front wheels move up and down over bumps, accelerating and braking the toe remains relativity consistent. it will add an extra half to 1 hour to the job, book time is about 2 hours for a 4 wheel alignment on a B5.

[oppositelock]

Relativity? I don't think he'll get close enough to the speed of light for it to matter.

[Uber]

Check upper a-arm bushings

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[james 408]

just looks like he overheaded the inside treaad block and it separated. inspect parts, get a proper alignment. problem solved.

[cjt671]

Did you ever post any results?
My C6 series A6 has the same wear pattern - completely stock and driven by my wife. Car tracks and steers without issue. The inside corners of both front tires are worn to the belts - didn't notice it until I got under the car to check the inner pads. I'd like to have an idea of the root cause before I take it to a shop.

I ended up not being able to get an alignment yet

I plan to get it checked out this week when I get the car running.

[cjt671]

Got it all checked out today. Didn't see anything too off.. Looks like previous owner who did the suspension modifications aligned it pretty similar to the rs4 specs at -1 degree of camber all around and factory toe settings which makes me think the owner after him and before me probably just never rotated the tires..

I don't understand how the dealership sold me the car like that though...

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[vavJETTAw36]

Got it all checked out today. Didn't see anything too off.. Looks like previous owner who did the suspension modifications aligned it pretty similar to the rs4 specs at -1 degree of camber all around and factory toe settings which makes me think the owner after him and before me probably just never rotated the tires..

I don't understand how the dealership sold me the car like that though...

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Unfortunately you don't know the history of the tires. Maybe he bought them that way. Maybe he swapped them from a friends ride. Maybe it had bad tire wear BEFORE fixing the suspension. You just don't know.


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[james 408]

yeah, without the history you're flying blind. Even with a good alignment, sometimes tire pressure needs to be changed in rain vs dry etc to make it even. My last 10 sets are all over the map in terms of which edge/center is wearing, gotta read your tires regularly.

[cjt671]

Yeah not knowing the enact history has been the main thing with this car.. Especially the lifter failure.. but thankfully it's all sorted out... For now at least lol

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