DSG S4 @ dragstrip - APR TCU tune clarifications

[Sean@APR]

Some of this came up in another thread and we were asked not to thread jack, so I'm respecting that and copying the whole thing over here and answering it properly.

Hopefully you can also come up with a solution for his 2010 DSG shifting issues which have plagued his car for a long long time even with stage 1 tune.

- - - Updated - - -

My initial response:

Four things to point out here:
1. The Gen 1 (2010 and 2011) DSGs are not very good compared to the newer ones. We're pushing all the limits with his, but there's only so much the hardware can give.
2. "Shifting issues" is a relative thing and needs to be looked at in perspective. Nothing he's experiencing would make any difference at all to a normal customer. We're talking about thousandths (MAYBE hundredths.. but I doubt the Gen 1 unit has the stones for it) at the drag-strip.
3. No other Gen 1 driver, with any software, anywhere in the world is even remotely close to his times. Everybody else in the chase for the top spots is running Gen 2 DSG hardware (Gen 1.5 has Gen 2 hardware with Gen 1 ratios).
4. Regardless of what you think of the Magnusen blower, the quickest and fastest S4 was also running our DSG software and used L/C on their record pass. They didn't have any shifting issues at all, but that's a given since it's a Gen 2 box.

- - - Updated - - -

Bianco's response:

So what are the benefits of tcu tuning on a 2010 or 2011 car?


You really think anyone whose audi dsg shifted like this would not care or notice ?

https://youtu.be/5hjvBYvtcS4

This video is Prime Time running 11.45. First off he doesn't seem to even use launch control. And then his shifts hang up. It doesn't sound like it's only costing him 'thousandths' of seconds, no offense.
If he's coasting during those hangups, he is losing valuable time under acceleration. That's lost mph. And as a result he's losing valuable elapsed time. It's nowhere near thousandths. Which is good news for you as it means he should be able to extend his record margin when his TCU tune is fixed.



?

He went 11.45 right? What about rynurz who went 11.5 in a 2010 with only one pulley.

Prime time has two pulleys and a beta tune allowing him to take advantage of considerable power advantage over any other stage 2 car. He also has just about every mod that works. So he's leaving very little on the table other than his TCU malfunctions.

But to say nobody else with a 2010 or 2011 is close is both inaccurate and a bit misleading since we have only one other 2010-2011 car running two pulleys, and that is 2000s4. His car went 11.66 on a pump gas tune with some 98 octane mixed with 93. His mods as posted were tune, sc pulley, od pulley, intake and lw wheels. No tcu tune, no launch control, no exhaust, no cat mods, no lw rotors, and a very conservative tune from the sounds of the ignition timing being talked about. He is only 2 tenths behind primetime who had an Apr 104 octane tune most of which should be pretty dialled in, as well as a full complement of mods including 4 lw rotors, high flow cats and an exhaust and of course the beta tune for his overdrive pulley boost .

[Sean@APR]

Now, there's a lot going on here and I'm going to try to clarify all of it. A handful of people have apparently been watching primes video and not understanding what they're seeing.

This post is to clarify exactly what we do, why we do it and what it means to both the regular customer and the "I'm chasing the S4 world record" customer.

So what are the benefits of tcu tuning on a 2010 or 2011 car?


You really think anyone whose audi dsg shifted like this would not care or notice ?

https://youtu.be/5hjvBYvtcS4

This video is Prime Time running 11.45. First off he doesn't seem to even use launch control.

Yes, that's the video of the record being set. What you're missing is what's actually going on and what the issue is.

First of all, prime has L/C disabled. The Gen 1 boxes don't launch well enough for world record level runs. They have a smaller oil pump and can't lock up the clutches as fast as the later units. So, we offer Gen 1 flashes with or without L/C. Prime has loads of experience launching the car and his "smash and go" technique is the best available for launching a Gen 1 car. It's as good as L/C on a Gen 2. All of these are assuming good tires and good track prep. We've done Gen 2 cars with street tires or slicks and the results are basically the same.

Best 60's:

Gen 1 L/C: 1.69 60'
Gen 1.5 L/C, Gen 2 L/C, Gen 1 Primetime driver mod: 1.5x 60'

Also note that Ron's launch technique is rather difficult to duplicate. He's a master at it. +1 for driver mod

The following applies to all generations of DSG. We do it basically the same on all of them.

And then his shifts hang up. It doesn't sound like it's only costing him 'thousandths' of seconds, no offense. If he's coasting during those hangups, he is losing valuable time under acceleration. That's lost mph. And as a result he's losing valuable elapsed time. It's nowhere near thousandths.

TLDR: Those shifts are as intended. The problem he's having is much more subtle.

No offense taken. Others have called it "granny shifting" and said that he's coasting for half a second on that run. Neither of those are correct. What you're hearing and seeing in that run is called amax. It doesn't shift crisply, because it's not supposed to. Amax uses both clutches simultaneously and slips between the gears.

A normal shift de-rates the engine by telling the ECU to pull timing. It does this to prevent free-revving and to lower the torque at the clutch to make shifting easier. It has the engine de-rate while it's opening the first clutch. The engine free-wheels for 50ms or so while the second one is being closed and then the TCU tells the engine to bring back the power. That de-rate timing retard is what causes the DSG "farts" you can hear on videos.

Amax doesn't work like that. When in this mode, the TCU keeps the beans on the entire time. There is no de-rate at all. It controls the engine RPM by having both clutches engaged in the linear (slip) region together while it transitions between the two. The upshot of this is that there is no de-rate, the engine is making full power the entire time and is transmitting it to the ground even during the shift. The downside is that it's extremely delicate. If the transition time is too fast, the clutches won't slip enough, will be working against each other and will rip themselves out of the transmission. On the other side, if the transition time is too slow, the engine will free rev, hit the limiter and de-rate via the rev limiter. It comes back as soon as the clutch closes a bit more and pulls it off the redline, but it still spent some time in de-rate.

That is the problem that prime is talking about when he says he's having "shifting issues". If you watch the video VERY closely, you can see it peg the limiter twice during that run. We've been dialing the transition length back a couple ms at a time with him. Unfortunately, we've not been to the track with him and he doesn't have internet at the track. So, we have to flash it at his house the night before and only get one try per track day. That's made it a bit of a slow process finding exactly the right value.

As to what this is or isn't worth:

During one of our previous track days, we tested Amax vs. non Amax shifting at the drag strip. Amax was consistently good for a tenth. Even if it does drill the limiter occasionally, it still shows significant gains. That's why it's on in our production files (only after a launch or a smash/go on Gen 1). We tested, collected the data and enabled it as a result. We could disable it and give crispy shifts (like the car does during normal acceleration with our software) instead. But, the data says this is faster.

The hitting of the limiter results in a de-rate for about 25 ms out of the 50ms transition period (we can see it happen in the logs). That occurs during the absolute center of the shift, when the clutches are both the least engaged and the least amount of power is being transmitted to the wheels. It DOES have a negative affect, but it's not a very big one. We estimate, at best, that we could translate about 1/10 to 1/5 of that time into E.T. if we can get the transitions all to be perfect. That's 5ms to 10ms worth of ET pickup (1ms = 1 thousandth)

We're hoping to go visit Ron in the spring and bring our tools, his car and his driver mod to the track. That should give us the chance to dial it in perfectly and answer once and for all what it's really worth.

Which is good news for you as it means he should be able to extend his record margin when his TCU tune is fixed.

That sounds good.. We'll find out in the spring exactly how much. Based on the data posted above, I don't see tenths.. maybe a hundredth.

He went 11.45 right? What about rynurz who went 11.5 in a 2010 with only one pulley.

Rynurz put up a nice time. But, it's quite a ways off from Ron's. Picking up a tenth in drag racing is no small feat.

Prime time has two pulleys and a beta tune allowing him to take advantage of considerable power advantage over any other stage 2 car. He also has just about every mod that works. So he's leaving very little on the table other than his TCU malfunctions.

Agreed. Ron's in it to win it. He's also faster with the TCU flash than he was without it. How much is left to be had is anyone's guess until we go up there.

But to say nobody else with a 2010 or 2011 is close is both inaccurate and a bit misleading since we have only one other 2010-2011 car running two pulleys, and that is 2000s4. His car went 11.66 on a pump gas tune with some 98 octane mixed with 93.

I don't see that run posted on either of the prominent sites. Can you link it?

I don't see it as misleading. I said that nobody else in the top slots is running a Gen 1 car. That's true: Auditude isn't, Jones isn't, Eurocode isn't, we aren't. The nearest is rynurz, and he's over a tenth behind the lead.

None of us know how many pulleys are out there. I have an idea how many are on APR cars, because the people have been PM'ing me to get Prime's file (which we're not quite ready to give out). I don't know how many are on Giac cars (since their Stage 2 seems to run well with both pulleys out of the box).

Edit: I had the wrong kind of tires listed for Ron (primetime). He emailed and corrected me that he runs Contis.

[Bianco]

Yes, that's the video of the record being set. What you're missing is what's actually going on and what the issue is.

First of all, prime has L/C disabled. The Gen 1 boxes don't launch well enough for world record level runs. They have a smaller oil pump and can't lock up the clutches as fast as the later units. So, we offer Gen 1 flashes with or without L/C. Prime has loads of experience launching the car and his "smash and go" technique is the best available for launching a Gen 1 car. It's as good as L/C on a Gen 2. All of these are assuming good tires and good track prep. We've done Gen 2 cars with "street legal" tires or slicks and the results are basically the same. Everybody in the hunt for the top spots has either slicks or what I would consider "cheater" level "street" tires. (Ron runs cheater street tires.. they're basically as good as running slicks, but they have tread and are DOT approved.. so they're legit).

Thanks for the detailed response. That explains the strange shift sounds on the video. Prime time = Ron?

To clarify a couple of things, the 11.66 run by a 2010 car with a basic modlist and a pump gas file I referred to was posted by 2000s4 himself in his response to you in the other thread. Maybe you missed it.

Also, primetime has slick tires or cheater slick tires? That is the first we've heard of that. I thought he had said he runs continental DW on some BBS CH-r wheels? Kind of doesn't fit his character to hide that information so are you sure that is accurate?

Thanks again for the detailed explanation of amax on Gen 1. I guess if you say it's good for a tenth, it's good for a tenth. Does that mean rynurz would pick up a tenth if he used it? Didn't sound like he did on his YouTube video of his personal best 11.5 run. That would tie primetime if he didn't use it and then gained a tenth. Does that also mean 2000s4 would pick up a tenth if he used it? He has no tcu tune at all. That means he'd only be a tenth behind primetime'a record on a pump gas file with very few mods and both he and rynurz run Michelin PSS I believe.

How much do you think prime time is gaining oath his cheater tires?

[2000S4]

Here is the vid if you missed it in the last post
https://youtu.be/NHVuGb1JnX8

[bangoman]

Sean are you calling out PT for running slicks? The first I've heard of it. Know something we don't?

[hdmlnium1]

Sean,
That was good reading. I'm new to Audi cars myself as this is my first one. So there is a ton about these vehicles that I don't know a lot about. So posts like this explaining things and how they work are great, at least for me. I am not new to drag racing, been doing that for over 25 years and still love it.
I am a very competitive person and what ever I do I like to do well. These 1/4 mile lists on most of the performance based vehicle forums are great. It gives people like me goals and something to shoot for.
It also helps vendors as in the quest to be quicker and go up on the list means buying more parts. Lol
I look forward to getting my car to the next level and going for a spot on the list on this forum. I am at 12.1 as a best with my S4 at the close of the racing season where I live. But I for sure am not happy in any 12 second club so that is why I haven't tried to be added yet.
I am looking forward to spring and getting back to the track and going for a good spot on the list.
Anyway sorry to get off topic on this but I love reading threads about people going for the (top of a list) it gets me motivated to get working on my car to do the same.
Thanks for explaining how the DSG works and your tuning.
Bill

[moophone]

Sean, As you know I am also having shift issues on 1->2 (bog around 6k), and 2->3 (bounces off limiter a few times), in LC/amax, but I'm on a B8.5. I trust these are all the same issues, and mine will also be corrected with the next update?

[waxxonMTL]

that's all good and nice to see APR taking the times to explains stuff, but did GIAC had to come up with explanation about their TCU tune ? If not, I guess it's because it work right off the bat and needs no justification as to why it doesn't work.

[Bianco]

that's all good and nice to see APR taking the times to explains stuff, but did GIAC had to come up with explanation about their TCU tune ? If not, I guess it's because it work right off the bat and needs no justification as to why it doesn't work.

Good question. I haven't heard of any giac (Gen 1 or Gen 2) cars struggling in the past year. Only Apr.

And what is confusing is Sean saying these problems are Gen 1 related, only to have a Gen 2 guy immediately post about the exact same problems (looks that way anyway)

[will13k7]

awesome explanation of Amax mode, thanks for that!

[will13k7]

Ron's not running slicks or "cheaters":

from audi revolution dot net:

I did want to clarify, and I've already emailed Sean, that I have NEVER ran anything but the stock peelers on Dunlops, and the 19 x 8.5 ET 32 BBS CHR's on Conti DW's 245 x 35 x 19 with a total weight of 47 lbs that have been on the car since May of 2011. Not sure where Sean got that information but I wanted to address it.

[harkema116]

that's all good and nice to see APR taking the times to explains stuff, but did GIAC had to come up with explanation about their TCU tune ? If not, I guess it's because it work right off the bat and needs no justification as to why it doesn't work.

Cool story, run GIAC than

[Bianco]

Ron's not running slicks or "cheaters":

from audi revolution dot net:

Do you have a link to this?

[jran76]

I can back that up. I am absolutely certain Ron has only run street tires on any recent passes over the last several years (DW's which are pretty light). Obviously just a misunderstanding between Ron and Sean.

[will13k7]

Do you have a link to this?

audizine blocks them, fix this hostname first (remove spaces replace dot with .): http:// audirevolution dot net /forum/index.php?topic=3865.msg111180

[bhvrdr]

I'm glad this post was made because I had questions about the DSG tunes out there as well and didnt want to come off as attacking. Not singling out APR either. I've read the following issues MAY happen with some DSG tunes:

1. Launch control does not always activate at all. It will work fine for a few times and then on one time it wont engage at all.
2. Launch control has a long delay after it engages. The car seems to almost stall after the launch.
3. Sometimes the car will short-shift the next gear after using launch control. Youll get a 5500rpm shift or something to this affect?
4. Gear hang up in shifting to 3-4


I've heard this issues posted by primetime on AR and also from Revo users.

Primetimes post on AR:

"Saki, Don't disagree at all... The shift hangups are costing me .05-.1 for sure... APR's determined to fix it and I was supposed to have a new one this week but some unexpected things came up with them... Still hoping to get a new ECU tune so I can run Sat. as I'll see some great DA's. I only got through a few gears on the E85 but it seemed to shift better so we'll see..."


Another forum member Moogas posts:

" I'll be posting some slips up also had a couple of good runs and some not so good due to tranny short shifting 2-3 and 3-4 after a couple of consecutive runs but V3.1 took care of the timing and boost issues."


Obviously if you read the APR dsg thread on this forum you see many issues brought up...

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...1#post11006741


Can ANY of the tuners say what is going on here and does it really seem that GIAC is immune from these issues or have people just not reported them? It seems to NOT just be affecting 2010 MY cars so is it systemic to all models?

Link on short shifting...

(figure out how to make the link work)

http://audi revolution.net/forum/index.php?topic=3188.0


Again, this is not attacking any of the tuners but I have wondered what the issues really are and how likely is each model year likely to experience any one of the above symptoms or all of the above symptoms?

Can posters chime in too and say if they experience ANY of the above issues?

Thanks,

Mike

[jran76]

audizine blocks them, fix this hostname first (remove spaces replace dot with .): http:// audirevolution dot net /forum/index.php?topic=3865.msg111180

Haha. I'm pretty sure he knows where to find AR.

[Sean@APR]

Also, primetime has slick tires or cheater slick tires? That is the first we've heard of that. I thought he had said he runs continental DW on some BBS CH-r wheels? Kind of doesn't fit his character to hide that information so are you sure that is accurate?

Sean are you calling out PT for running slicks? The first I've heard of it. Know something we don't?

He's a straight up guy. I thought he was running Nitto's, but he emailed and corrected me that he's using conti's. That's my bad.

[Sean@APR]

Sean, As you know I am also having shift issues on 1->2 (bog around 6k), and 2->3 (bounces off limiter a few times), in LC/amax, but I'm on a B8.5. I trust these are all the same issues, and mine will also be corrected with the next update?

Good question. I haven't heard of any giac (Gen 1 or Gen 2) cars struggling in the past year. Only Apr.

And what is confusing is Sean saying these problems are Gen 1 related, only to have a Gen 2 guy immediately post about the exact same problems (looks that way anyway)

Completely different issue, but being looked into. We have a suitable test car, so this is just a matter of having the guy in the office and the car in mostly normal form. We'll have it sorted soon. It's something on the ECU side that is over-doing the interventions during normal shifts, but we haven't been able to nail down exactly what.

I'm not trying to start a tuner war here.. I'm doing everything I can to avoid it. With that being said, the only Gen 1s in the top 10 are APR. I take that to mean that others aren't pushing the older platform as far as we are.

[Sean@APR]

Can posters chime in too and say if they experience ANY of the above issues?

Can we please not turn this into a cesspool of "my XXX year DSG did something, so I think I have this problem" and then posting something completely unrelated.

I'm all about resolving issues, but 10 pages of "I saw this other thing happen" turns into a mess that I can't keep up with and that nobody will want to read.

This particular issue only exists in Gen 1 (2010 and 2011 MY) cars and only during Amax (launch or smash and go) runs. In short, MY2010 and MY2011 cars at the drag strip.

Anything else should be another thread.

[Sean@APR]

Here is the vid if you missed it in the last post
https://youtu.be/NHVuGb1JnX8

Yep, thanks, I did miss it.

To clarify a couple of things, the 11.66 run by a 2010 car with a basic modlist and a pump gas file I referred to was posted by 2000s4 himself in his response to you in the other thread. Maybe you missed it.

I looked in the other thread and all I see is "2010 with tune, pulleys, intake". What was the DA for the run? Tires/wheels? Weight?

From the sound of it, it either doesn't have a DSG tune or it has one that doesn't use amax mode. Throw ours on there and it'll pick up a tenth in the same DA.

Also, it's 2 tenths off Ron's run, so it's very back of the pack for a two pulley car.

[Bianco]

Yep, thanks, I did miss it.



I looked in the other thread and all I see is "2010 with tune, pulleys, intake". What was the DA for the run? Tires/wheels? Weight?

From the sound of it, it either doesn't have a DSG tune or it has one that doesn't use amax mode. Throw ours on there and it'll pick up a tenth in the same DA.

Also, it's 2 tenths off Ron's run, so it's very back of the pack for a two pulley car.

Maybe you missed it but this was a pump gas tune. Running low teens degrees of igniting timing advance. This is the fastest b8 s4 to ever run with a pump gas tune. Very much front of the pack.

[Sean@APR]

Maybe you missed it but this was a pump gas tune. Running low teens degrees of igniting timing advance. This is the fastest b8 s4 to ever run with a pump gas tune. Very much front of the pack.

I saw him say pump, but without the other details that doesn't mean anything. Maybe he's calling E85 pump or spraying a bunch of meth or the car is stripped. I have a hard time thinking a full weight car with 2 pulleys, street tires, no meth and a DA above -3000 is running 11.66.

Of course, there's no details posted and it's not on any of the lists either.

[Bianco]

I saw him say pump, but without the other details that doesn't mean anything. Maybe he's calling E85 pump or spraying a bunch of meth or the car is stripped. I have a hard time thinking a full weight car with 2 pulleys, street tires, no meth and a DA above -3000 is running 11.66.

Of course, there's no details posted and it's not on any of the lists either.

All of the details have been posted.

Nice da not great.
93 mixed with 98 octane
Pump gas tune
No meth or anything exciting
25lb 19" wheels with Michelin pilot super sport
Full interior
Stock exhaust
Cts Intake
Cts sc pulley
Jhm od pulley

Everything else stock

[2000S4]

All of the details have been posted.

Nice da not great.
93 mixed with 98 octane
Pump gas tune
No meth or anything exciting
25lb 19" wheels with Michelin pilot super sport
Full interior
Stock exhaust
Cts Intake
Cts sc pulley
Jhm od pulley

Everything else stock

The wheels were not 25 pounds. I had my VMRs 19x9.5 which are 55.6 pounds with tire.

[s4buckeye]

Haha. I'm pretty sure he knows where to find AR.

uhhhh.....I think he actually asked how to find it:

Do you have a link to this?

[Sean@APR]

All of the details have been posted.

Nice da not great.

Where? None of that was in his post in that thread and it's not in the 1/4 mile thread. It's really hard to have intelligent conversations/discussions about things when the data only comes out in trickles or has to be searched for.

What is "Nice" in numbers? -1000? -2000? +1500?

[Sean@APR]

The wheels were not 25 pounds. I had my VMRs 19x9.5 which are 55.6 pounds with tire.

Before we head off into neverland with this thread: Nice run!

11.66 is solid on pump gas, even if you did mix in some 98. Now, can you please post the exact details of everything and a copy of the slip in the 1/4 mile thread? It makes it much easier to come to conclusions if all the data is together.

[Bianco]

Where? None of that was in his post in that thread and it's not in the 1/4 mile thread. It's really hard to have intelligent conversations/discussions about things when the data only comes out in trickles or has to be searched for.

What is "Nice" in numbers? -1000? -2000? +1500?

If the owner wants it on the list I'm sure he will post he. He has stated however that this is a very early stage tune under development so perhaps that's why he didn't post it.

Did Apr post their early development times on the list? Or any b8 s4 times with street tires and seats? :)

There was a thread a couple months back about this run on another forum. Understandably you may not have seen it, however keep in mind that just because you don't know about it doesn't mean he was running stripped on slicks in -3000 feet of da etc.

[Sean@APR]

If the owner wants it on the list I'm sure he will post he. He has stated however that this is a very early stage tune under development so perhaps that's why he didn't post it.

I don't care if he posts it or not. But, pulling tidbits of information from another forum, posting only selected bits and then trying to tell me it's a valid data point in the discussion doesn't fly. If you want to use it as a data point in the conversation, all the data needs to be available and posted here. At the minimum, a link to all the facts should at least be provided. Otherwise, you're just taking a cheap shot and it's not worth my time/trouble to even acknowledge it.

I think I've already given you too much of my mine on this thing.

[jran76]

uhhhh.....I think he actually asked how to find it:

??? He did, and maybe it wasn't clear, but I'm pretty sure he knows how to find it (AR).

[ptper]

I don't care if he posts it or not. But, pulling tidbits of information from another forum, posting only selected bits and then trying to tell me it's a valid data point in the discussion doesn't fly. If you want to use it as a data point in the conversation, all the data needs to be available and posted here. At the minimum, a link to all the facts should at least be provided. Otherwise, you're just taking a cheap shot and it's not worth my time/trouble to even acknowledge it.

I think I've already given you too much of my mine on this thing.

Appreciate you posting as much as you have. I noticed you edited out the part about flashing PT's car from home. Were we not supposed to know that? Is that not ready yet?

[jran76]

Where? None of that was in his post in that thread and it's not in the 1/4 mile thread. It's really hard to have intelligent conversations/discussions about things when the data only comes out in trickles or has to be searched for.

What is "Nice" in numbers? -1000? -2000? +1500?

All of the details have been posted.

Nice da not great.
93 mixed with 98 octane
Pump gas tune
No meth or anything exciting
25lb 19" wheels with Michelin pilot super sport
Full interior
Stock exhaust
Cts Intake
Cts sc pulley
Jhm od pulley

Everything else stock

I'm pretty sure the pass was made at St. Thomas (Ontario) on 11/20/15. Looks like a -500 to -1300 DA depending on the time of day.

[will13k7]

??? He did, and maybe it wasn't clear, but I'm pretty sure he knows how to find it (AR).

i get it, they are just troll'n.

[Sean@APR]

Appreciate you posting as much as you have. I noticed you edited out the part about flashing PT's car from home. Were we not supposed to know that? Is that not ready yet?

No I didn't. There's nothing clever there.. we sent him a cable and I or somebody from tech teamviewer's into his computer and flashes the car. We regularly do that with beta testers, much less trouble than having them go to a dealer every time.

Unfortunately, we've not been to the track with him and he doesn't have internet at the track. So, we have to flash it at his house the night before and only get one try per track day.

[Sean@APR]

I'm pretty sure the pass was made at St. Thomas (Ontario) on 11/20/15. Looks like a -500 to -1300 DA depending on the time of day.

That ranges from great to spectacular if you're correct. The record was set in +180. In our experience, ~500 hundred feet of DA translates into almost a tenth on these cars. They are stupidly DA sensitive.

I'm really dying to get Ron to a -1300 DA on a sunny day. That's got 11.3 or better written all over it.

Quasi pump gas in -1300 da with two pulleys? I can see that doing 11.66 with light weight wheels, a good launch and a cold car. I doubt it would do it a second time as the engine heat soaks and knock increases. We don't have the slip, so we don't know his 60ft, but if he's got stock Gen 1 DSG and can do primes smash and go, he should have cut a 1.6. That certainly puts him in the right territory.

I'm still curious about how in the heck Tude was able to run in 1400 ft worse DA, cut the same 60 ft, shave .11 off his ET and add a half MPH to the trap. I need some of whatever sauce he used to do that.

[Bianco]

The record was set in +180.

What record? Prime time? The stage 3 car?

Quasi pump gas in -1300 da with two pulleys?
I can see that doing 11.66 with light weight wheels, a good launch and a cold car. I doubt it would do it a second time as the engine heat soaks and knock increases.

It was -600 to - 700, not -1300

Wheels weren't light. The owner just told clarified that above. Same weight as stock peelers.

As for not doing it a second time he also went 11.71. Why would knock increase in a car running 95-96 octane and requesting low teens degrees btdc of timing? This isn't requesting 20 degrees. Or 25 degrees. This is a 91 octane beta file.

https://youtu.be/IswzJxRoXFE

[EUROSWAGR]

That ranges from great to spectacular if you're correct. The record was set in +180. In our experience, ~500 hundred feet of DA translates into almost a tenth on these cars. They are stupidly DA sensitive.

I'm really dying to get Ron to a -1300 DA on a sunny day. That's got 11.3 or better written all over it.

Quasi pump gas in -1300 da with two pulleys? I can see that doing 11.66 with light weight wheels, a good launch and a cold car. I doubt it would do it a second time as the engine heat soaks and knock increases. We don't have the slip, so we don't know his 60ft, but if he's got stock Gen 1 DSG and can do primes smash and go, he should have cut a 1.6. That certainly puts him in the right territory.

I'm still curious about how in the heck Tude was able to run in 1400 ft worse DA, cut the same 60 ft, shave .11 off his ET and add a half MPH to the trap. I need some of whatever sauce he used to do that.

The more you post, the more you look like a dummy when it comes to the B8 S4s....

Primetime has been one of the fastest cars around with mediocre DA. He doesn't need incredible DA to be successful, he needs a transmission that doesn't hang up on shifts.

I also love how you keep adding mods to the 11.66 car or little advantages it had. What really impresses me is the 'cold car' advantage. Do you realize Primetime has shown us time and time again these cars do best hot lapping?

Lastly, more arrogance with Auditude's time..seems like you're speculating he also has 'cheater mods'...it's not secret sauce, he did well because his car is shifting correctly unlike Primetime's. Imagine what his car will do on a dual pulley setup.

[Guitarmageddon]

Wait....APR isnt a forum sponsor anymore?

[ptper]

No I didn't. There's nothing clever there.. we sent him a cable and I or somebody from tech teamviewer's into his computer and flashes the car. We regularly do that with beta testers, much less trouble than having them go to a dealer every time.

My bad.