F21 and solomotorsports.

[ajee622]

Has anyone ever used solomotorsports??

Any opinions??

Also what's the deal with the f21's??

Better than k04s??

Rather do it right the first time.


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[DieselElectric]

There's no right way really.

Genuine k04's are tried and true, will make good numbers and be reliable.

F21's are proving themselves, will make good numbers and seem to be reliable.

Doing it "right" is going to come down to the quality of workmanship on the install.

[FlyboyS4]

Also what's the deal with the f21's??

Better than k04s??

F21 is a K04 hybrid. It is different than a K04. 'Better' depends on what your goals are, which you've not given.

[zillarob]

I would suggest you consider how the car will be driven most of the time and base your turbo decision on that, not on a dyno number.

It seems the cool thing to do here is get the biggest turbos your engine will support, or even worse, get larger turbos than your engine will support, and dial them back.
The price you pay is it doesnt look like these big turbos do a whole lot below 5k.

Now, I usually cruise around at 2.5-3k.
They dont need to be spooled at that rpm, but when I roll on the throttle, I would prefer not to wait 2000rpm for something to happen.
This is k04 or f21 territory, both solid options. They are better mid rpm, but they do give some up to the larger turbos in the upper rpms.

I went with f21s because $$, a few more ponies than k04s, seem to have a decent track record, and Doug is absolutely top notch when it comes to customer service.
I chose to focus on improving the areas I most often find myself in and ended up with a great dd, and then some.
If I wanted to decimate all at racewars, I would def have gone different route. Prob giant turbos that didnt spool until 5k, and a clutch that you wouldnt wish upon your worst enemy in traffic

[ajee622]

Ok yeah so this car is my daily driver. Not looking for anything crazy. Just some spirited driving to work and on the weekends. I'm willing to spend the money but let me give an example.

For k04s I'm estimating close to $7k installed. Looking at awe or 034 kit.

F21s looking at maybe around $5k.

If the $2k difference means I have 50 less hp I can live with that.

I just don't want to go the f21 cheap route and the turbos go because they are some cheap Chinese turbo.

Not sure if it all makes sense but this is what I'm thinking.


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[zillarob]

You save 2k and (likely) gain 50hp with f21s.

There are dynos posted of k04 and f21 cars you can compare to see what suits your driving style best.
I really suggest you do this. If I had to decide between the current versions, I might have gone with the k04s for a dd.

[DieselElectric]

Where in PA are you located? I'm in Winchester, VA. If you aren't too far and want to see what f21's are capable of, I'm all for giving rides.

[DieselElectric]

Also, I have turbos that were heavily abused for 15k before being removed. Installed them on my car, and have been running them at 24-26psi (temp dependant, mostly 25psi) for 10k now without issue.

The car is fast, and fun. Overtaking on the highway at 70mph is fun in itself without shifting out of 6th. Lots of power, great broad power band without sacrificing gobs of low end torque.

[zillarob]

That is prob the best way to do it

But on the location thing, I am closer to you than he is
Think he is actually down south somewhere.

[FlyboyS4]

Ok yeah so this car is my daily driver. Not looking for anything crazy. Just some spirited driving to work and on the weekends. I'm willing to spend the money but let me give an example.

Here's some notes I made of the original F21 vs K04. Frankenturbo now uses a different compressor wheel and mixed flow turbine on the F21, but I don't think the general trends of my initial comparison have changed much.

[01audia4]

I've been to solo when I lived in ATL, good bunch of guys. Don't know anything about their tunes but I know plenty of people run them.

I have a Daz tuned f21 car in KOP, if you're close I'd be happy to give you a ride.

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[incontrol7]

Flyboy, ive seen alot of your work, been to your page multiple times over the past year or two. I can tell you guys LOVE twins, but what do you think about singles? Seems like a precision 5858 would do the job with same spool time and a way cleaner (at least more simple) IMO set up.

[ajee622]

Where in PA are you located? I'm in Winchester, VA. If you aren't too far and want to see what f21's are capable of, I'm all for giving rides.

Yeah I need to update my status. I'm in Charlotte nc


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[Peter1.8t]

Flyboy, ive seen alot of your work, been to your page multiple times over the past year or two. I can tell you guys LOVE twins, but what do you think about singles? Seems like a precision 5858 would do the job with same spool time and a way cleaner (at least more simple) IMO set up.

And spend more money. Seems that most people that tried single turbo life are either still stuck building them, or given up completely. There's really only a few solid single turbo cars out there running. I say stick with twins.

[ajee622]

I've been to solo when I lived in ATL, good bunch of guys. Don't know anything about their tunes but I know plenty of people run them.

I have a Daz tuned f21 car in KOP, if you're close I'd be happy to give you a ride.

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If I come back up to Philly soon I might let you know. Grew up like 20 min from kop


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[incontrol7]

And spend more money. Seems that most people that tried single turbo life are either still stuck building them, or given up completely. There's really only a few solid single turbo cars out there running. I say stick with twins.

How do you figure more money?? Stock 2.8 manifolds and a custom up pipe and down pipe, then intercooler piping? Less money on piping, oil and coolant lines, less fittings etc... idk maybe its just me. I mean I dont like the idea of them being right up against the firewall behind the motor but it does look bad ass IMO.

[insomniacxp1]

Have had good experience with solo's guys, they know what they're doing tuning wise. Have come a long way in the past couple years.

[s4chiro]

Here's some notes I made of the original F21 vs K04. Frankenturbo now uses a different compressor wheel and mixed flow turbine on the F21, but I don't think the general trends of my initial comparison have changed much.

how do f4s flow compared to f-21s? have a brand new set ready to be installed

[Peter1.8t]

How do you figure more money?? Stock 2.8 manifolds and a custom up pipe and down pipe, then intercooler piping? Less money on piping, oil and coolant lines, less fittings etc... idk maybe its just me. I mean I dont like the idea of them being right up against the firewall behind the motor but it does look bad ass IMO.

If you can fab then it's probably cheaper, but most people can't and end up spending a ton of money.

[mauromj]

If you can fab then it's probably cheaper, but most people can't and end up spending a ton of money.

Project B5 STK: $899
Tial Wastegate: $265
Precision Turbo: $1000

Even if you buy everything, I still don't think it adds up to that much more than a twin setup..

Granted, I didn't include all other supporting mod. However, for the basic setup it seems to be only a bit more expensive , if not the same "general" cost in the end.

[slow ride]

A lot of people miss out on just how much r&d the factory does for heat management and structural integrity. Add a single turbo in back and be sure to cook all sorts of things. You need to wrap up all the wiring and different sensors, etc. It's a lot of trial and error and fix as things fail that gets overlooked.

[FlyboyS4]

how do f4s flow compared to f-21s? have a brand new set ready to be installed

Between those two I like the F4H better for the K04-like spool, but I don't know which flows more.

[WESLIFE]

A lot of people miss out on just how much r&d the factory does for heat management and structural integrity. Add a single turbo in back and be sure to cook all sorts of things. You need to wrap up all the wiring and different sensors, etc. It's a lot of trial and error and fix as things fail that gets overlooked.

Not true dude. My friend's single turbo car has been running for over 6 years I think. Nothing is wrapped up and he hasn't cooked anything but breakfast each and every morning right before he drives the car every day.

[SoloMotorsports]

F21's combined with Solo Tuning is a GREAT idea

[FlyboyS4]

Also what's the deal with the f21's??

Better than k04s??

Another option is the SRM RS4+, it's also a K04-hybrid.

[christianb5s4]

Another option is the SRM RS4+, it's also a K04-hybrid.

It's a shame there isn't more info or real world reviews on them.

[oppositelock]

It's a shame there isn't more info or real world reviews on them.

Do they even really exist? I haven't seen anyone post about actually getting a set. In fact someone recently tried to buy a set and got steered toward the (misnamed) K24s instead.

[FlyboyS4]

It's a shame there isn't more info or real world reviews on them.

I agree, I'd also like to see more on the Mixed Flow F21.

I have seen one log from the SRM product and it looked promising, but that's just one data point.

[christianb5s4]

Do they even really exist? I haven't seen anyone post about actually getting a set. In fact someone recently tried to buy a set and got steered toward the (misnamed) K24s instead.

I saw that thread, for me personally K04 framed turbos fit my needs the best so I was slightly bummed when they went for K24s instead.

I agree, I'd also like to see more on the Mixed Flow F21.

I have seen one log from the SRM product and it looked promising, but that's just one data point.

same with the PB5 variant of the K04 hybrids, especially because those are really pretty ideal turbos for this car if you aren't looking to build the motor. Still spools like PJ K04s, but has another 50hp in potential output.

[Doug@FrankenTurbo]

OP -- if you have any questions about our MixedFlow F21BT turbochargers, feel free to drop me a line at [email protected]. Thanks again to the community for its continued support.

dh

[FlyboyS4]

Still spools like PJ K04s, but has another 50hp in potential output.

Have you seen evidence of that? I haven't seen proof that any of the currently available K04 hybrids spool like BW K04's.

[ajee622]

OP -- if you have any questions about our MixedFlow F21BT turbochargers, feel free to drop me a line at [email protected]. Thanks again to the community for its continued support.

dh

Thanks. Kind of pricing everything out and doing homework before going stage 3. Who knew so much would be involved.


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[Doug@FrankenTurbo]

Have you seen evidence of that? I haven't seen proof that any of the currently available K04 hybrids spool like BW K04's.

Well, it's not like we didn't test for the question. Here are some graphs we posted here early last year:




These logs were collected in 3rd gear -- which nets slower boost onset than you'd see in 4th gear logs -- but I think they demonstrate good responsiveness. They did to me, anyway, and these data were enough to persuade me to put the MixedFlow design into production.

[FlyboyS4]

These logs were collected in 3rd gear -- which nets slower boost onset than you'd see in 4th gear logs -- but I think they demonstrate good responsiveness. They did to me, anyway, and these data were enough to persuade me to put the MixedFlow design into production.

I'm undertaking to see if there is something available that has K04 responsiveness, plus a few other characteristics. I have not yet found a turbo option that meets the responsiveness criteria, but I'm not assuming I am aware of every option out there. The mixed flow F21 is a solid turbo, but it doesn't appear to have K04 response, I doubt the PB5 option will either.

[Bordom]

I'm undertaking to see if there is something available that has K04 responsiveness, plus a few other characteristics. I have not yet found a turbo option that meets the responsiveness criteria, but I'm not assuming I am aware of every option out there. The mixed flow F21 is a solid turbo, but it doesn't appear to have K04 response, I doubt the PB5 option will either.

Got a line for a set of Frankenturbo F4H turbos. Brand new unused and never installed. Was it you that was looking for a set? I don't remember

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

[FlyboyS4]

Got a line for a set of Frankenturbo F4H turbos. Brand new unused and never installed. Was it you that was looking for a set? I don't remember

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

That would be tempting if I hadn't already collected a good bit of info on them. I like the F4H a lot.

[sjmelling]

Where in PA are you located? I'm in Winchester, VA. If you aren't too far and want to see what f21's are capable of, I'm all for giving rides.

There are several different setups running around the Winchester area. If you come down, I'll show you what a super basic F4H car is like. There is a basic PJK04 build and of course DieselElectric is running F21's. Also, if your timeframe allows there is a S4 meet in Philly in May where you will be able to see everything from Stock-ish to fully built motor big turbo cars.

I like the F4H a lot.

In the relatively limited driving I have done on them, I like the F4H's quite a bit as well. My favorite setup that I have owned was the PJK04's, but the F4H's are gaining ground the more I drive the car.

I really don't think you will be disappointed with any of the K04 framed options with appropriate supporting mods.

[Bordom]

That would be tempting if I hadn't already collected a good bit of info on them. I like the F4H a lot.

Do you have logs comparing F4H to the new Mixed Flow?

Everything graciously mispelled by Android

[FlyboyS4]

Do you have logs comparing F4H to the new Mixed Flow?

I haven't personally used the F21 as I have the F4H. I have a bunch of logs from the F4H's I used, but I'm limited like everyone else to what gets made available by people with the F21's.

[Doug@FrankenTurbo]

Well, the Smoking Tire's Matt Farah seems to like how these turbos perform.




Gabe, the car owner, was one of our very first MixedFlow customers. Congrats to Solo for being today's feature on this influential web series!