help diagnosing possible lean conditions

[quattro guy]

So for the past few months i noticed that the car was waaaay low on power. When originally purchased the car it was a complete animal. Sold it to one of my buddies and ended up buying it back. When i repurchased the car was low on power, nothing to what i remeber. So untill now ive had the money to start fixing it up but im having trouble pinpoiting the source. I had already fixed a few boost leaks and that seemed to help. I also moved the timing from the crank because the timing marks would not match. Moved it forward one thooth and now its closer but still the lines dont match. Once i did that the car felt a bit more responsive and alive. Boosting 19-20psi but. I just dont feel that kick of 20psi of boost. My vaccum in gear without accelerating is 21 and in neutral 17-18, at start up it starts at 10 and slowly climbs down to 17-18. I have done a boost leak test and to what i can tell there is none anymore. I have a new n75 with a afterstock hyperboost dv. I forgot to mention that sometimes my boost fluctuates dramatically. Aside from that and its not always when im in 3rd, not just that gear but more noticable because of the speed and rpm, if im going like 25mph and accelerate 80-100% the car hesitates and feels like it jerks, like if boost is kicking in but Not fully engages. I can hear the turbo spool and psi is full boost but it feels as its not engaging all the way. Also and this doesnt happen that often. Sometimes i can replicate and sometimes i cant. One time when it did the jerking kind of feel, when i let off the gas there was backfire, i managed to make it do it twice and hasnt done it since. There were no codes for missfires or anything so im thinking it might have to do with fuel/air ratio. Now i should mention that i got these codes.[IMG][/IMG]

ive been getting the knock sensor and 02 for a while but I've just been resetting them untill the other day it started to run rough while on idle right before leaving for a road trip. So i had to go back home and get my b7, So the other day i cleared the codes to see what would come up. Before i wouldn't get the misfires untillb a few days ago. Cleared them parked the car so i could move around and do all the holiday. So this morning i turned on the car and it felt like if i was running on two cylinders, wouldn't die just run extremely rough. I tried revving it a bit it would rev but with great difficulty. After like a min or two all that went away and the car was running smooth. Then i looked at measuring block 32 and 33 and this is what it was pretty much for a long time. Give or take like 6 digits more and 3 less from the actual value posted. It kept changing.
[IMG[/IMG]

At this point i would disconnect the maf and values would go down closer to zero and be hoovering around 2-3 both negative and positive values. So my plead for help is to help me diagnose. I have already order the front o2 and the green plug knock sensor because according to my searches that code is for the green knock sensor. Any input is most appreciate it.

[Seerlah]

Do a 2nd or 3rd gear WOT pull logging MAF and lambda. 1 Lambda equals stoich (won't always be exact due to variables like fuel and altitude but is used for simplicity at sea level. for example, 93 octane stoich is ~14.3). Multiply lambda by 14.7 to get your A/F ratio. Once turbo spools, you should always be 12.5:1 AFR or less (12.5 during spool, and gets richer as you reach full spool. ie 12.5:1 during spool, and 11.8:1 full boost). MAF readings should be roughly 80% of your CHP. With your mods, anything above 165g/s is acceptable range.

Or you simply got used to your B7 and forgot how slow these cars are. lol

[quattro guy]

So it would be measuring block 3,32,33 or is it better if i log out of advs meas blocks?

[quattro guy]

So i still havent had time to log but this is a short clip of cold start upm thats pretty much where it stays for a while. I would need to drive the car for quite some time so it could be closer to 20. Idk if the sound quality is good enough but the car was not idleing right. I had slight vibration and when i started reving it, to me it sounded like it kind of wanted to missfire. Idk if the video caught that but for those with more knowledge than me can you guys chime in and see if my vac readings are ok.

https://youtu.be/r8NOafWqPRo

[quattro guy]

Monday,04,January,2016,20:47:06:41374-VCID:336548955194F6A6BC-5140,VCDS Version: Release 15.7.3 (x64),Data version: 20151216
8E0 909 518 F,,1.8L R4/5VT G 0001,

,Group A:,'032,,,,Group B:,'033,,,,Group C:,'002
,,Adaptation (Idle),Adaptation (Partial), , ,,Lambda Control,Sensor Voltage, , ,,Engine Speed,Engine Load,Injection Timing,Mass Air Flow
,TIME,Bank 1 Sensor 1,Bank 1 Sensor 1,,,TIME,Bank 1 Sensor 1,Bank 1 Sensor 1,,,TIME,(G28),,,(G70)
Marker,STAMP, %, %,,,STAMP, %, V,,,STAMP, /min, %, ms, g/s
,0.33,-0.9,25.0, , ,0.00,-5.5,1.400, , ,0.17,2280,51.1,6.12,22.58
,0.84,-0.9,25.0, , ,0.50,-5.5,1.480, , ,0.67,2320,51.9,6.12,23.08
,1.35,-0.9,25.0, , ,1.01,-4.7,1.380, , ,1.19,2360,52.6,6.12,23.33
,1.86,-0.9,25.0, , ,1.52,-2.3,1.460, , ,1.69,2400,51.9,6.12,23.44
,2.36,-0.9,25.0, , ,2.03,-1.6,1.500, , ,2.20,2440,60.2,7.82,30.25
,2.88,-0.9,25.0, , ,2.53,1.6,1.440, , ,2.70,2520,112.8,15.64,62.89
,3.39,-0.9,25.0, , ,3.05,0.0,1.420, , ,3.22,2720,156.4,23.80,94.50
,3.89,-0.9,25.0, , ,3.55,6.3,1.420, , ,3.72,2880,188.0,29.58,103.61
,4.40,-0.9,25.0, , ,4.06,7.0,1.060, , ,4.23,3120,178.2,26.86,105.75
,4.91,-0.9,25.0, , ,4.56,5.5,1.240, , ,4.74,3280,178.9,27.20,112.28
,5.42,-0.9,25.0, , ,5.08,7.0,1.120, , ,5.25,3480,175.9,26.86,116.36
,5.92,-0.9,25.0, , ,5.58,7.0,1.160, , ,5.75,3680,175.2,27.20,123.39
,6.44,-0.9,24.2, , ,6.09,9.4,1.080, , ,6.26,3880,169.9,26.18,126.83
,6.94,-0.9,24.2, , ,6.60,9.4,1.140, , ,6.77,4080,169.9,26.52,131.36
,7.44,-0.9,24.2, , ,7.11,9.4,1.100, , ,7.28,4280,170.7,26.52,139.75
,7.95,-0.9,24.2, , ,7.61,10.2,1.060, , ,7.78,4480,173.7,26.52,149.61
,8.47,-0.9,24.2, , ,8.13,4.7,1.020, , ,8.30,4680,172.9,25.50,155.42
,8.97,-0.9,24.2, , ,8.64,2.3,0.980, , ,8.80,4840,171.4,25.16,156.69
,9.48,-0.9,24.2, , ,9.14,7.0,1.100, , ,9.31,5040,171.4,28.56,163.08
,9.99,-0.9,24.2, , ,9.65,25.0,1.160, , ,9.81,5200,167.7,30.60,164.64
,10.50,-0.9,24.2, , ,10.16,25.0,0.860, , ,10.33,5320,147.4,26.52,147.39
,11.00,-0.9,24.2, , ,10.67,12.5,0.200, , ,10.83,5440,139.1,21.08,148.14
,11.51,-0.9,24.2, , ,11.17,3.9,0.720, , ,11.34,5600,153.4,24.48,160.50
,12.02,-0.9,24.2, , ,11.68,16.4,0.780, , ,11.85,5720,139.8,23.12,149.61
,12.53,-0.9,24.2, , ,12.19,5.5,0.160, , ,12.36,5840,125.6,18.70,146.22
,13.03,-0.9,24.2, , ,12.69,2.3,0.680, , ,12.86,5960,141.4,21.08,162.22
,13.55,-0.9,24.2, , ,13.20,5.5,0.460, , ,13.38,6080,127.8,18.70,148.39
,14.05,-0.9,24.2, , ,13.72,1.6,0.580, , ,13.88,6200,133.8,20.06,158.61
,14.56,-0.9,24.2, , ,14.22,2.3,0.560, , ,14.39,6280,127.1,18.36,150.61
,15.07,-0.9,24.2, , ,14.73,0.8,0.620, , ,14.89,6400,127.1,18.36,157.86
,15.58,-0.9,24.2, , ,15.24,-1.6,0.580, , ,15.41,6520,126.3,17.68,155.19
,16.08,-0.9,24.2, , ,15.75,0.0,0.640, , ,15.91,6600,128.6,18.36,163.81
,16.59,-0.9,24.2, , ,16.25,0.8,0.620, , ,16.42,6680,123.3,17.34,155.83
,17.10,-0.9,25.0, , ,16.76,-0.8,0.660, , ,16.93,6680,33.1,4.42,8.97
,17.61,-0.9,24.2, , ,17.27,0.0,0.380, , ,17.44,5000,106.8,12.24,134.28
,18.11,-0.9,24.2, , ,17.78,10.9,1.220, , ,17.94,5120,166.9,27.54,164.83
,18.63,-0.9,24.2, , ,18.28,20.3,1.220, , ,18.45,5200,166.2,30.94,163.56
,19.13,-0.9,24.2, , ,18.80,25.0,1.120, , ,18.96,5280,151.9,28.22,150.83
,19.64,-0.9,24.2, , ,19.30,17.2,0.260, , ,19.47,5320,136.1,21.08,143.19
,20.14,-0.9,24.2, , ,19.81,5.5,0.740, , ,19.97,5400,157.1,25.16,161.50
,20.66,-0.9,24.2, , ,20.32,14.1,0.680, , ,20.49,5440,142.9,23.46,145.25
,21.16,-0.9,24.2, , ,20.83,2.3,0.320, , ,20.99,5520,135.3,19.72,146.17
,21.67,-0.9,24.2, , ,21.33,3.1,0.740, , ,21.50,5560,150.4,24.14,157.58
,22.18,-0.9,24.2, , ,21.84,6.3,0.400, , ,22.00,5600,132.3,19.72,139.14
,22.69,-0.9,24.2, , ,22.35,0.8,0.700, , ,22.52,5640,142.1,22.10,156.33
,23.19,-0.9,24.2, , ,22.86,5.5,0.720, , ,23.03,5680,137.6,20.74,145.97
,23.70,-0.9,25.0, , ,23.36,0.8,1.000, , ,23.53,5160,13.5,2.04,8.03
,24.21,-0.9,25.0, , ,23.88,-25.0,0.180, , ,24.04,4320,27.1,3.40,29.28
,24.72,-0.9,25.0, , ,24.38,-19.5,1.420, , ,24.55,4280,13.5,1.70,9.25
,25.22,-0.9,25.0, , ,24.89,-21.9,1.340, , ,25.05,4280,22.6,3.06,23.94
,25.74,-0.9,24.2, , ,25.39,0.0,1.300, , ,25.56,4280,134.6,19.38,139.08
,26.24,-0.9,24.2, , ,25.91,7.0,1.420, , ,26.08,4320,187.2,29.58,153.33
,26.75,-0.9,24.2, , ,26.41,16.4,1.400, , ,26.58,4360,188.0,32.64,158.56
,27.25,-0.9,24.2, , ,26.92,25.0,1.340, , ,27.08,4400,188.0,39.10,152.44
,27.77,-0.9,25.0, , ,27.43,25.0,0.680, , ,27.60,4440,142.1,25.50,109.56
,28.27,-0.9,24.2, , ,27.94,0.0,0.680, , ,28.10,4480,168.4,28.56,154.58





couldn't figure out how to post the log but this is what the log look like in a wordpad application. don't know how to decipher this so hoping someone with greater knowledge will chime in. I did do this logs with a brand new oxygen sensor. the one closest to the turbo.

[quattro guy]

anyone?????

[old guy]

I don't have the patience or concentration to decipher that wall of numbers but I will comment on your block 33 readings. Normal adjustments are ±10%. The readings in zone 1 should fluctuate around a value of 0. Your ECM is adding a lot of fuel. If these readings were taken at idle you either have a clogged injector or a significant vacuum leak.

EDIT: Sorry. Too much wine. Your display group 32 learned values are for your STFT (additive) and LTFT (multiplicative) values. Since both of yours are set at "0" that would be an indication that the ECM is no longer utilizing the MAF sensor readings and is reverting to a base map. Is your group 33 zone 1 reading fluctuating or is it steady at +21%?

[quattro guy]

old guy, thanks for the response. at the time I believe that had just finished clearing the trouble codes so everything reset it. but after I replaced the knock sensor (green) because that's what most audiziners suggested I got the fault code again yesterday night. well after I replaced it I drove around for a couple hours and noticed that in measuring block 32 the adaptation partial bank one sensor 1 was at 25%. in measuring block 33 lambda control it remained fairly high but the numbers would vary anywhere from 17 to 28. at ide I would be -2,3,-1,4,1,5,-2,3 etc. at the end of my drive, in measuring block 32 adaptation (idle) bank 1 sensor 1 for a while it would stay in the positive numbers around 9 and at the end of my drive it was -7, I can make a video of the values after the car has been driven for a while so it can show the numbers im describing. the chart of numbers was a log I did in WOT in 3rd gear. I don't know how else to put it or graph it so I just post it as it was logged. one thing I tried a few weeks ago was to drive home from work with the maf disconnect it, I read that if I was to do that I would be in limp mode and not be able to boost past 5psi. I have a 16 mile trip from work to home and when I disconnected the maf the car drove like if nothing was different with the exception of my traction control light being on. so as you can see im not an expert reading the values and don't know much on where the values need to be. I know that they need to be close to 0 but it was far from it when I was logging.

[old guy]

Disconnecting the MAF sensor doesn't put you in limp mode. It puts your fueling requirements in open loop since the MAF sensor input is no longer available. The ECM reverts to fueling maps based upon all the various remaining inputs (throttle position, engine temperature, MAP sensor etc).

If I am understanding you correctly your STFT (additive or idle trim) is bouncing around ±o but your LTFT (multiplicative or partial trim) is remaining very high. Here's a definition of the two trims:

add = additive - The effects of the malfunction (e.g. unmetered air) will reduce as the
engine speed increases. The injection period will be modified by a fixed amount for
additive learned values. This amount is not dependent upon the basic injection period.

mul = multiplicative - The effects of the malfunction (e.g. malfunctioning injector) will
increase as the engine speed increases. A multiplicative learned value is a proportional
change to the injection period. This change is dependent on the basic injection period.

To put it another way the STFT is the immediate adjustment and the LTFT adjusts the base map from which the immediate adjustments are being made. So if you have a vacuum leak at idle you will see a very high STFT but once you start driving the vacuum leak will be insignificant to the overall A/F ratio and the LTFT won't change much.

On the other hand low fuel pressure or a clogged or faulty fuel injector may not make much of a difference at idle so the STFT remains low but you will see an increase in the LTFT to make up for the missing fuel.

I suspect you have one of two things going on. You either have a faulty injector or the pressure regulator in your fuel filter isn't providing 4-bar of fuel pressure. If it's an injector it may also explain the Knock Sensor issue if one cylinder is consistently lean.


To check the fuel pressure you will have to tap into the fuel line Clicky click® or attach a fuel gauge to the shrader valve on the end of the fuel rail. You should see a steady 4-bar (58 psi) of pressure.

For the injectors there are several things you can do. You can check the injector spray pattern and output as shown in the picture below. I would recommend removing the plugs to take some load off of the starter when doing this test. You don't have to but I just don't like cranking the starter under load for extended periods of time. Watch the spray patterns for consistency and weigh the before and after containers to see if one injector is putting out less fuel than the others.

The other thing you can do is monitor the knock sensor values. A lean condition causes knocking. If one cylinder is noticeably higher than the others try moving the injector from that cylinder to another and see if the high value follows the injector. There are two knock sensors. The front sensor monitors cylinders 1 and 2. Obviously the rear sensor monitors cylinders 3 and 4. If you move an injector be sure to move it from one sensor to the other. In other words don't swap cylinder 1 with cylinder 2. Move it to cylinder 3 or 4.

Good luck!

EDIT: A few more comments on the STFT (additive or idle trim). It does more than just monitor at idle. Under normal conditions the STFT should be changing constantly between a positive and negative value. The ECM monitors the A/F ratio through the front wideband sensor and it constantly adjusts it up and down (above and below) the desired set point so it knows where it is. If you have an easy way to monitor your fuel trims while driving (Torque Pro is great for this) you can watch the interaction between the two trims.

As previously stated the STFT will vary around ±0. The LTFT will remain steady. If while driving you notice over a period of time that the STFT is consistently more toward the positive side you will eventually see the LTFT increase and then the STFT will go back to more evenly distributed around ±0. The same thing happens in the other direction. If the STFT is consistently more toward the negative side the LTFT will drop a little and again the STFT centers around ±0.

Hope that helps to explain the fuel trims and their interactions a little better.

[quattro guy]

Sorry ive been taking long to update. I have ordered some parts but FedEx lost my shipment so im dealing with that now. I however have noticed that when i checked the knock values in measuring block 26 cyl 2 reads higher voltage than the other 3. For example when cyl 1,3,4 are hoovering around .300 volts, cyl 2 is in the .7-800 if not more sometimes. Do you think that with the values showing what they show is it indicating a clogged or bad injector? I dont know much about knock and the voltage. Im also going to replace the fuel filter to see if that helps, ive read that sometimes they get clogged and causes problems. Well ill install it as soon as fedex finds my item or i get a refund.

[old guy]

I would recommend moving cylinder 2 injector to cylinder 4. If cylinder 4 starts to show a higher voltage reading it would be a good indication that the injector is running lean and consequently causing a knock as well as the lean code.

[quattro guy]

Ok i will try that this weekend. But im not get a lean code per say, the car is underpowered acts different out of nowhere. Sometimes it misfires and most of the time it doesn't. 90% of the time the car idles fine sometimes when i first turn it on it has a rough idle, after almost feels like im running on 3 cyl then it just corrects itself. But its weird because some of the misfires i actually feel and hear dont trigger a cel. But when the cel is triggered and has misfires recorded, those i couldnt hear or feel. i will move the injector and check with vcds what the values are. I will update as soon as i do.

[old guy]

You may not be getting a lean code (yet) but your ECM is struggling to keep your A/F in check. You mentioned that your partial was at 25%. The most it can add is 25%. Beyond that you will be getting progressively leaner. Add that to your low STFT and knock code and it sure sounds to me like a bad injector.

[quattro guy]

https://youtu.be/guqNgiGOogg

this is a video showing the values. sorry or no audio, I guess having the radio on is copyright violations in the video but whatever. this was values showing just from work to my house 25 min worth of driving time and 16 miles distance.

I have not swapped the injector yet, I will do that Saturday if nothing else comes up. thanks

[old guy]

Like I stated before I think you have a problem with the cylinder 2 injector. Your LTFT is almost maxed out. Cylinder 2 is very noisy. Considering both conditions together i think you are running lean on cylinder 2 causing both the noise (knock) and the extremely high fuel trims.

Hopefully swapping the injectors around will confirm this issue.

Good luck!

[quattro guy]

so I swapped cyl injector 2 to cyl injector 4 and then cleared the codes, let the car get to temp and checked the values. im still super high in cyl number 2, the knock sensor is new (green knock sensor) between cyl 1&2. I finially got my other part from fedex which is a fuel filter. I will be installing this tomorrow and see if there is any change. I will get around to check the fuel pressure later on during the week as it will take a few days for ecs to ship to me. I will update back as soon as I install the fuel filter to see if there is any change.

[old guy]

Interesting....

Rules that out. I wonder what's causing all the noise on cylinder #2?

Reading back through the thread I realize that we probably should have focused on what Seerla suggested before moving on. So I went back to see if I could make some sense out of your log. I pulled out the extra time stamps and added headers to help out. Your MAF g/s looks OK peaking at 164 g/s.

Have you logged MB 31 to check actual versus requested lambda? Worth a look. Your wideband voltage seems to be jumping all over the place. You mentioned that you ordered a new front wideband O2 sensor. Have you replaced it yet? If not, that is what I would recommend as a next step.


,Group A:,'032,,,,Group B:,'033,,,,Group C:,'002
,,Adaptation (Idle),Adaptation (Partial), , ,,Lambda Control,Sensor Voltage, , ,,Engine Speed,Engine Load,Injection Timing,Mass Air Flow,


Time----STFT--LTFT----Lam------V-------RPM----Load--Timing---MAF g/s
,0.33,----0.9,---25.0, , ,5.5,---1.400, , ,2280,---51.1,---6.12,----22.58
,0.84,----0.9,---25.0, , ,5.5,---1.480, , ,2320,---51.9,---6.12,----23.08
,1.35,----0.9,---25.0, , ,4.7,---1.380, , ,2360,---52.6,---6.12,----23.33
,1.86,----0.9,---25.0, , ,2.3,---1.460, , ,2400,---51.9,---6.12,----23.44
,2.36,----0.9,---25.0, , ,1.6,---1.500, , ,2440,---60.2,---7.82,----30.25
,2.88,----0.9,---25.0, , ,1.6,---1.440, , ,2520,--112.8,--15.64,---62.89
,3.39,----0.9,---25.0, , ,0.0,---1.420, , ,2720,--156.4,--23.80,---94.50
,3.89,----0.9,---25.0, , ,6.3,---1.420, , ,2880,--188.0,--29.58,--103.61
,4.40,----0.9,---25.0, , ,7.0,---1.060, , ,3120,--178.2,--26.86,--105.75
,4.91,----0.9,---25.0, , ,5.5,---1.240, , ,3280,--178.9,--27.20,--112.28
,5.42,----0.9,---25.0, , ,7.0,---1.120, , ,3480,--175.9,--26.86,--116.36
,5.92,----0.9,---25.0, , ,7.0,---1.160, , ,3680,--175.2,--27.20,--123.39
,6.44,----0.9,---24.2, , ,9.4,---1.080, , ,3880,--169.9,--26.18,--126.83
,6.94,----0.9,---24.2, , ,9.4,---1.140, , ,4080,--169.9,2--6.52,--131.36
,7.44,----0.9,---24.2, , ,9.4,---1.100, , ,4280,--170.7,--26.52,--139.75
,7.95,----0.9,---24.2, , 10.2,---1.060, , ,4480,--173.7,--26.52,--149.61
,8.47,----0.9,---24.2, , ,4.7,---1.020, , ,4680,--172.9--,25.50,--155.42
,8.97,----0.9,---24.2, , ,2.3,---0.980, , ,4840,--171.4,--25.16,--156.69
,9.48,----0.9,---24.2, , ,7.0,---1.100, , ,5040,--171.4,--28.56,--163.08
,9.99,----0.9,---24.2, , 25.0,---1.160, , ,5200,--167.7,--30.60,--164.64
,10.50,---0.9,---24.2, , 25.0,---0.860, , ,5320,--147.4,--26.52,--147.39
,11.00,---0.9,---24.2, , 12.5,---0.200, , ,5440,--139.1,--21.08,--148.14
,11.51,---0.9,---24.2, , ,3.9,---0.720, , ,5600,--153.4,--24.48,--160.50
,12.02,---0.9,---24.2, , 16.4,---0.780, , ,5720,--139.8,--23.12,--149.61
,12.53,---0.9,---24.2, , ,5.5,---0.160, , ,5840,--125.6,--18.70,--146.22
,13.03,---0.9,---24.2, , ,2.3,---0.680, , ,5960,--141.4,--21.08,--162.22
,13.55,---0.9,---24.2, , ,5.5,---0.460, , ,6080,--127.8,--18.70,--148.39
,14.05,---0.9,---24.2, , ,1.6,---0.580, , ,6200,--133.8,--20.06,--158.61
,14.56,---0.9,---24.2, , ,2.3,---0.560, , ,6280,--127.1,--18.36,--150.61
,15.07,---0.9,---24.2, , ,0.8,---0.620, , ,6400,--127.1,--18.36,--157.86
,15.58,---0.9,---24.2, , ,1.6,---0.580, , ,6520,--126.3,--17.68,--155.19
,16.08,---0.9,---24.2, , ,0.0,---0.640, , ,6600,--128.6,--18.36,--163.81
,16.59,---0.9,---24.2, , ,0.8,---0.620, , ,6680,--123.3,--17.34,--155.83
,17.10,---0.9,---25.0, , ,0.8,---0.660, , ,6680,---33.1,----4.42,----8.97
,17.61,---0.9,---24.2, , ,0.0,---0.380, , ,5000,--106.8,--12.24,--134.28
,18.11,---0.9,---24.2, , ,0.9,---1.220, , ,5120,--166.9,--27.54,--164.83
,18.63,---0.9,---24.2, , 20.3,---1.220, , ,5200,--166.2,--30.94,--163.56
,19.13,---0.9,---24.2, , 25.0,---1.120, , ,5280,--151.9,--28.22,--150.83
,19.64,---0.9,---24.2, , 17.2,---0.260, , ,5320,--136.1,--21.08,--143.19
,20.14,---0.9,---24.2, , ,5.5,---0.740, , ,5400,---157.1,--25.16,--161.50
,20.66,---0.9,---24.2, , 14.1,---0.680, , ,5440,--142.9,--23.46,--145.25
,21.16,---0.9,---24.2, , ,2.3,---0.320, , ,5520,--135.3,---19.72,--146.17
,21.67,---0.9,---24.2, , ,3.1---,0.740, , ,5560,--150.4,---24.14,--157.58
,22.18,---0.9,---24.2, , ,6.3,---0.400, , ,5600,--132.3,---19.72,--139.14
,22.69,---0.9,---24.2, , ,0.8,---0.700, , ,5640,--142.1,---22.10,--156.33
,23.19,---0.9,---24.2, , ,5.5,---0.720, , ,5680,--137.6,---20.74,--145.97
,23.70,---0.9,---25.0, , ,0.8,---1.000, , ,5160,---13.5,---2.04,------8.03
,24.21,---0.9,---25.0, , 25.0,--0.180, , ,4320,----27.1--,3.40,-----29.28
,24.72,---0.9,---25.0, , 19.5,--1.420, , ,4280,---13.5,---1.70,------9.25
,25.22,---0.9,---25.0, , 21.9,--1.340, , ,4280,---22.6,---3.06,-----23.94
,25.74,---0.9,---24.2, , ,0.0,--1.300, , ,,4280,--134.6,--19.38,---139.08
,26.24,---0.9,---24.2, , ,7.0,--1.420, , ,,4320,--187.2,--29.58,---153.33
,26.75,---0.9,---24.2, , 25.0,--1.340, , ,4400,--188.0,--39.10,---152.44
,27.77,---0.9,---25.0, , 25.0,--0.680, , ,4440,--142.1,--25.50,---109.56
,28.27,---0.9,---24.2, , ,0.0,--0.680, , ,,4480,--168.4,--28.56,---154.58

[quattro guy]

indeed I have replaced the front o2, this log was done with the new sensor already installed. I failed to mention earlier that during the WOT run, I noticed that the car would feel like I let go of the throttle at around 5,000 rpm, it would still accelerate but there was a dramatic power loss at this rpm, once I hit 5,500 - 5,800 or so I felt everything coming back, I did manage to replicate this two times right after that. I also managed to see it on the graph from ross-tech website and I did see a drop in injection timing as well as maf g/s also falls.

,9.99,----0.9,---24.2, , 25.0,---1.160, , ,5200,--167.7,--30.60,--164.64
,10.50,---0.9,---24.2, , 25.0,---0.860, , ,5320,--147.4,--26.52,--147.39
,11.00,---0.9,---24.2, , 12.5,---0.200, , ,5440,--139.1,--21.08,--148.14
,11.51,---0.9,---24.2, , ,3.9,---0.720, , ,5600,--153.4,--24.48,--160.50
,12.02,---0.9,---24.2, , 16.4,---0.780, , ,5720,--139.8,--23.12,--149.61
,12.53,---0.9,---24.2, , ,5.5,---0.160, , ,5840,--125.6,--18.70,--146.22
,13.03,---0.9,---24.2, , ,2.3,---0.680, , ,5960,--141.4,--21.08,--162.22
,13.55,---0.9,---24.2, , ,5.5,---0.460, , ,6080,--127.8,--18.70,--148.39

also I am suppose to be chipped and not stock, according to my boost gauge I be spiking sometimes up to around 25psi, and that's what weird too, sometimes im on the highway and go WOT in 6th and boost up to 22psi and taper of to around 18-17psi, I go back to regular driving for less than a minute and go wot again, and cant seem to peak past 12psi, I let off and try it again 10 seconds later and im back at peaking in the 20's again. also it does not feel like a 20psi boost at all. just thought I threw it out there for if you think its something else.

now time to go install my fuel filter and see if there is any change.

[old guy]

When I saw a similar dip in your previous log I just assumed you had to let off the gas momentarily and went back to WOT. So what you posted above was from 10 sec→13 sec at WOT?

[quattro guy]

When I saw a similar dip in your previous log I just assumed you had to let off the gas momentarily and went back to WOT. So what you posted above was from 10 sec→13 sec at WOT?

that is correct. I did not release the gas pedal until I shifted to 4th gear and then went WOT for a few more sec and then ended the log

[quattro guy]

OOk. So replaced fuel filter sunday, drove it around to see if there was any change because the fuel that was coming out of the filter was not as clean as i would have liked. Drove it to work monday and on my way home from work i get a cel. Havent seen the code yet but im willing to bet money is for the g61 knock sensor. The same code thats been coming up. When i get home i will check to confirm.

Old guy, do you suggest that the next step would be to check fuel pressure? Also idk but would a compression test help pin point the problem? Thanks.

[old guy]

I don't think you need to check your fuel pressure. You are getting the same symptoms with two different fuel filters. I also don't think a compression test is going to tell us anything worthwhile. Something else is causing your lean issue.

Do you know what injectors are in your engine? The MAF is flowing 160+ g\s so you may have a big injector file.

What we have to figure out is what is causing the 25% fuel trim adjustment and the high noise on cylinder #2. Can you run another log and record the CF's? It would be interesting to see how much timing is being pulled on the individual cylinders. If one is significantly higher it may tell us something.

I read back through the complete thread to look for something I may have missed. In the starter thread you mentioned that you moved the cam timing by one tooth. Sometimes the crank mark can be a bit deceiving. Have someone ride along with you and monitor Measuring Block 91. This will help to see if the cam timing is off. Zone 3 will tell you if the cam adjuster is turned on or off. Zone 4 will tell you the cam position in degrees.

Do a 3/4 throttle acceleration in 2nd gear and you should see the cam adjuster turn on around 2,000 rpm and turn off around 4,500 rpm. The cam should adjust forward around 22° and then return to 0°. If it's significantly higher or lower you may need to adjust the timing belt one tooth.

Another possibility is still a faulty injector. Do the easy stuff first and monitor the CF's and cam adjustment. If ll that looks OK try the injector spray test shown in post #9.

Good Luck!

[quattro guy]

I have the stock injectors the dark blue ones. As for tuning company i have no idea as i bought the car already tuned. What are CF's? I will do some more logging hopefully today. And as for the check engine light, it was the knock sensor. I will do 4 WOT in 2nd from around 1,800-5,000rpm. Should i do them back to back?

[old guy]

No need to log four pulls. Just do one for now. I’m concerned as to what the CF’s are going to show.

CF’s are Correction Factors for each cylinder. It is the degrees of correction or timing pull per cylinder based upon the knock sensor input along with several other variables. It is shown in degrees of timing pull. The maximum amount of pull is 12°. If you are seeing 12° of correction it is potentially very dangerous for you engine.

CF’s can be recorded in Measuring Block 20. It will give you the timing correction for all four cylinders. Clicky click®

Running in a lean condition will typically result in some very high CF's.

[quattro guy]

great ill do that today then. sorry I misunderstood 3/4 for 3 to 4. my mistake. ill do a log at 75% throttle from 1800 to 5000 rpm. I will log measuring block 20 and 2 and 91 just to have extra reference info. I will update momentarily

[old guy]

great ill do that today then. sorry I misunderstood 3/4 for 3 to 4. my mistake. ill do a log at 75% throttle from 1800 to 5000 rpm. I will log measuring block 20 and 2 and 91 just to have extra reference info. I will update momentarily

You can use 3/4 throttle to check the cam adjuster. To check the CF's a WOT run would be better.

[quattro guy]

Wednesday,27,January,2016,18:52:08:41374-VCID:336548955194F6A6BC-5140,VCDS Version: Release 15.7.3 (x64),Data version: 20151216
8E0 909 518 F,,1.8L R4/5VT G 0001,

,Group A:,'091,,,,Group B:,'020,,,,Group C:,'002
,,Engine Speed,Engine Load,Adjustment,Adjustment,,Timing Retardation,Timing Retardation,Timing Retardation,Timing Retardation,,Engine Speed,Engine Load,Injection Timing,Mass Air Flow
,TIME,(G28),,Status,Bank 1,TIME,Cylinder 1,Cylinder 2,Cylinder 3,Cylinder 4,TIME,(G28),,,(G70)
Marker,STAMP, /min, %,,°KW,STAMP,°KW,°KW,°KW,°KW,STAMP, /min, %, ms, g/s
,0.34,1760,37.6,ON,21.0,0.00,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.17, 1720,37.6,4.76,12.33
,0.87,1840,36.1,ON,21.0,0.51,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.69, 1800,36.1,4.42,12.19
,1.38,1880,35.3,ON,21.0,1.04,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,1.21, 1880,36.1,4.42,12.94
,1.89,1960,35.3,ON,21.0,1.55,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,1.72, 1920,35.3,4.08,12.94
,2.40,2040,54.9,ON,21.0,2.06,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.23, 1960,34.6,4.08,12.81
,2.91,2200,78.9,OFF,0.0,2.58,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.8,2.75, 2120,77.4,10.20,34.14
,3.42,2440,98.5,OFF,-1.0,3.08,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.8,3.25,2360,89.5,11.90,45.3 3
,3.92,2720,132.3,OFF,-1.0,3.59,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.8,3.75,2640,116.5,16.66,66. 03
,4.44,3120,169.2,OFF,0.0,4.09,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.8,4.26 ,3000,160.9,24.48,94.17
,4.94,3560,168.4,OFF,-1.0,4.61,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4.78,3440,172.2,26.52,111 .67
,5.45,4000,163.9,OFF,-1.0,5.11,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,5.28,3880,164.7,24.82,120 .53
,5.95,4440,164.7,OFF,-1.0,5.62,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,5.78,4280,164.7,25.16,133 .72
,6.47,4840,164.7,OFF,-1.0,6.12,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,6.30,4720,163.9,25.16,147 .39
,6.97,5240,160.2,OFF,-1.0,6.64,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,6.81,5120,162.4,24.48,158 .78
,7.48,5560,151.9,OFF,1.0,7.14,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,7.31 ,5440,155.6,23.80,157.31
,7.99,5880,144.4,OFF,1.0,7.65,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,7.83 ,5800,147.4,22.44,159.64
,8.50,6120,139.1,OFF,0.0,8.16,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,8.33 ,6040,139.1,21.76,159.14
,9.00,5520,13.5,OFF,1.0,8.67,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,8.84, 5840,20.3,2.72,2.22
,9.47,4040,41.4,OFF,-1.0,9.15,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,9.31,4560,14.3,2.38,10.86
,9.97,4040,44.4,OFF,-1.0,9.63,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,9.80,4040,43.6,5.10,34.64
,10.46,4000,36.1,ON,5.0,10.14,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,10.3 0,4040,36.1,4.08,26.92
,10.92,3960,26.3,ON,21.0,10.62,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,10. 77,4000,30.8,3.40,20.97
,11.41,3920,24.1,OFF,1.0,11.08,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,11. 23,3920,22.6,2.72,16.75
,11.91,3840,23.3,OFF,-1.0,11.58,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,11.75,3840,23.3,2.72,16. 83
,71.27,1960,26.3,OFF,-1.0,71.44,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,71.09,1920,25.6,3.06,9.6 9
,71.78,1960,28.6,OFF,-1.0,71.95,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,71.61,1920,27.8,3.40,10. 47
,72.29,1960,28.6,ON,6.0,72.46,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,72.1 2,1960,28.6,3.40,10.67
,72.81,1960,28.6,ON,21.0,72.98,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,72. 63,1960,27.8,3.74,10.75
,73.31,2000,28.6,ON,21.0,73.48,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,73. 14,1960,28.6,3.74,10.83
,73.82,2000,28.6,ON,21.0,73.99,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,73. 65,2000,28.6,3.74,11.08
,74.32,2040,28.6,ON,21.0,74.49,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,74. 15,2000,28.6,3.40,10.81
,74.84,2040,28.6,ON,21.0,75.01,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,74. 67,2040,28.6,3.40,11.14
,75.34,2040,28.6,ON,21.0,75.51,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,75. 18,2040,28.6,3.40,11.17
,75.85,2040,28.6,ON,20.0,76.02,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,75. 68,2040,28.6,3.40,11.25
,76.38,2080,29.3,ON,21.0,76.55,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,76. 21,2080,28.6,3.74,11.50
,76.89,2120,48.9,ON,21.0,77.06,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,76. 72,2120,39.8,5.78,21.19
,77.40,2280,80.5,OFF,4.0,77.57,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,77. 23,2200,75.2,9.86,35.42
,77.92,2520,101.5,OFF,0.0,78.10,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,77 .74,2400,93.2,12.58,48.75
,78.43,2880,144.4,OFF,0.0,78.59,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,78 .27,2760,125.6,18.02,74.72
,78.93,3240,171.4,OFF,-1.0,79.10,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,78.76,3080,164.7,24.82,1 00.72
,79.43,3680,168.4,OFF,-1.0,79.60,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,79.26,3560,171.4,26.52,1 13.92
,79.95,4120,163.2,OFF,-1.0,80.13,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,79.78,3960,165.4,24.82,1 22.58
,80.45,4520,165.4,OFF,-1.0,80.62,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,80.29,4400,166.9,25.50,1 38.75
,80.96,4960,163.9,OFF,-1.0,81.13,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,80.79,4840,164.7,24.48,1 52.08
,81.47,5360,157.9,OFF,-1.0,81.64,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,81.29,5240,160.9,23.80,1 59.39
,81.98,5680,150.4,OFF,0.0,82.15,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,81 .81,5600,153.4,22.44,162.44
,82.48,6000,141.4,OFF,1.0,82.65,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,82 .32,5920,142.9,21.08,160.92
,82.99,6280,135.3,OFF,1.0,83.16,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,82 .82,6200,136.8,21.08,156.61
,83.50,6240,53.4,OFF,1.0,83.67,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,83. 33,6440,132.3,21.42,160.17
,84.01,5280,15.0,OFF,1.0,84.18,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,83. 84,5600,14.3,2.38,11.00
,84.53,4360,121.1,OFF,-1.0,84.69,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,84.36,4360,88.7,11.90,91 .97
,85.03,4560,172.2,OFF,-1.0,85.20,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,84.85,4480,164.7,25.50,1 48.19
,85.53,4720,171.4,OFF,-1.0,85.70,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,85.37,4680,170.7,26.86,1 53.17
,86.04,4880,166.9,OFF,-1.0,86.21,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,85.87,4840,168.4,29.24,1 54.58
,86.54,5080,156.4,OFF,-2.0,86.71,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,86.38,5000,165.4,31.96,1 57.94
,87.06,5200,136.8,OFF,-1.0,87.23,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,86.89,5160,136.8,24.48,1 36.64
,87.58,5360,154.9,OFF,0.0,87.75,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,87 .40,5320,152.6,23.80,158.78
,88.09,5520,143.6,OFF,0.0,88.26,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,87 .92,5480,149.6,25.84,153.56
,88.61,5640,130.1,OFF,0.0,88.78,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,88 .44,5600,130.8,20.74,138.47
,89.12,5760,142.9,OFF,1.0,89.29,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,88 .95,5720,140.6,21.76,157.58
,89.62,5880,138.3,OFF,1.0,89.79,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,89 .45,5840,139.8,21.76,156.08
,90.13,6000,132.3,OFF,1.0,90.31,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,89 .96,5960,133.1,20.40,150.83
,90.64,6080,109.8,OFF,1.0,90.81,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,90 .48,6080,130.1,19.04,150.83
,91.15,5240,14.3,OFF,0.0,91.32,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,90. 98,5480,13.5,2.04,9.00
,91.66,4120,29.3,OFF,-1.0,91.82,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,91.50,4800,13.5,1.70,11. 22
,92.17,3480,24.8,OFF,-1.0,92.34,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,91.99,3440,41.4,4.08,28. 53
,92.67,3440,14.3,OFF,-1.0,92.84,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,92.51,3440,17.3,2.04,8.6 1


but maybe this one is easier to read


Wednesday,27,January,2016,18:52:08:41374-VCID:336548955194F6A6BC-5140,VCDS Version: Release 15.7.3 (x64),Data version: 20151216
8E0 909 518 F,,1.8L R4/5VT G 0001,

,Group A:,'091,,,,Group B:,'020,,,,Group C:,'002
,,Engine Speed,Engine Load,Adjustment,Adjustment,,Timing Retardation,Timing Retardation,Timing Retardation,Timing Retardation,,Engine Speed,Engine Load,Injection Timing,Mass Air Flow
,


TIME,(G28),,Status,Bank 1,TIME,Cylinder 1,Cylinder 2,Cylinder 3,Cylinder 4,TIME,(G28),,,(G70)
Marker,STAMP, /min, %,,°KW,STAMP,°KW,°KW,°KW,°KW,STAMP, /min, %, ms, g/s



(time) (rpm) (cam (C.F) (knock cyl 1-4)(injection (g/s)
on/off) timing)

,0.34,1760,ON,21.0,0.00,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4.76,12.33

,0.87,1840,ON,21.0,0.51,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4.42,12.19

,1.38,1880,ON,21.0,1.04,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4.42,12.94

,1.89,1960,ON,21.0,1.55,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4.08,12.94

,2.40,2040,ON,21.0,2.06,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4.08,12.81

,2.91,2200,OFF,0.0,2.58,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.8,10.20,34.1 4

,3.42,2440,OFF,-1.0,3.08,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.8,11.90,45.33

,3.92,2720,OFF,-1.0,3.59,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.8,16.66,66.03

,4.44,3120,OFF,0.0,4.09,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.8,24.48,94.1 7

,4.94,3560,OFF,-1.0,4.61,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,26.52,111.67

,5.45,4000,OFF,-1.0,5.11,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,24.82,120.53

,5.95,4440,OFF,-1.0,5.62,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,25.16,133.72

,6.47,4840,OFF,-1.0,6.12,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,25.16,147.39

,6.97,5240,OFF,-1.0,6.64,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,24.48,158.78

,7.48,5560,OFF,1.0,7.14,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,23.80,157. 31

,7.99,5880,OFF,1.0,7.65,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,22.44,159. 64

,8.50,6120,OFF,0.0,8.16,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,21.76,159. 14

,9.00,5520,OFF,1.0,8.67,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.72,2.22

,9.47,4040,OFF,-1.0,9.15,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.38,10.86

,9.97,4040,OFF,-1.0,9.63,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,5.10,34.64

,10.46,4000,ON,5.0,10.14,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4.08,26.9 2

,10.92,3960,ON,21.0,10.62,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.40,20. 97

,11.41,3920,OFF,1.0,11.08,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.72,16. 75

,11.91,3840,OFF,-1.0,11.58,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.72,16.83

,71.27,1960,OFF,-1.0,71.44,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.06,9.69

,71.78,1960,OFF,-1.0,71.95,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.40,10.47

,72.29,1960,ON,6.0,72.46,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.40,10.6 7

,72.81,1960,ON,21.0,72.98,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.74,10. 75

,73.31,2000,ON,21.0,73.48,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.74,10. 83

,73.82,2000,ON,21.0,73.99,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.74,11. 08

,74.32,2040,ON,21.0,74.49,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.40,10. 81

,74.84,2040,ON,21.0,75.01,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.40,11. 14

,75.34,2040,ON,21.0,75.51,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.40,11. 17

,75.85,2040,ON,20.0,76.02,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.40,11. 25

,76.38,2080,ON,21.0,76.55,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,3.74,11. 50

,76.89,2120,ON,21.0,77.06,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,5.78,21. 19

,77.40,2280,OFF,4.0,77.57,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,9.86,35. 42

,77.92,2520,OFF,0.0,78.10,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,12.58,48 .75

,78.43,2880,OFF,0.0,78.59,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,18.02,74 .72

,78.93,3240,OFF,-1.0,79.10,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,24.82,100.72

,79.43,3680,OFF,-1.0,79.60,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,26.52,113.92

,79.95,4120,OFF,-1.0,80.13,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,24.82,122.58

,80.45,4520,OFF,-1.0,80.62,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,25.50,138.75

,80.96,4960,OFF,-1.0,81.13,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,24.48,152.08

,81.47,5360,OFF,-1.0,81.64,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,23.80,159.39

,81.98,5680,OFF,0.0,82.15,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,22.44,16 2.44

,82.48,6000,OFF,1.0,82.65,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,21.08,16 0.92

,82.99,6280,OFF,1.0,83.16,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,21.08,15 6.61

,83.50,6240,OFF,1.0,83.67,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,21.42,16 0.17

,84.01,5280,OFF,1.0,84.18,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.38,11. 00

,84.53,4360,OFF,-1.0,84.69,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,11.90,91.97

,85.03,4560,OFF,-1.0,85.20,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,25.50,148.19

,85.53,4720,OFF,-1.0,85.70,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,26.86,153.17

,86.04,4880,OFF,-1.0,86.21,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,29.24,154.58

,86.54,5080,OFF,-2.0,86.71,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,31.96,157.94

,87.06,5200,OFF,-1.0,87.23,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,24.48,136.64

,87.58,5360,OFF,0.0,87.75,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,23.80,15 8.78

,88.09,5520,OFF,0.0,88.26,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,25.84,15 3.56

,88.61,5640,OFF,0.0,88.78,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,20.74,13 8.47

,89.12,5760,OFF,1.0,89.29,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,21.76,15 7.58

,89.62,5880,OFF,1.0,89.79,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,21.76,15 6.08

,90.13,6000,OFF,1.0,90.31,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,20.40,15 0.83

,90.64,6080,OFF,1.0,90.81,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,19.04,15 0.83

,91.15,5240,OFF,0.0,91.32,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.04,9.0 0

,91.66,4120,OFF,-1.0,91.82,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,1.70,11.22

,92.17,3480,OFF,-1.0,92.34,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,4.08,28.53

,92.67,3440,OFF,-1.0,92.84,0.0,0.0,0.0,0.0,2.04,8.61



sorry I took long. I took even longer trying to make this easily readable.

[old guy]

Well it looks like your cam timing is correct. Off is at ±1° and On is at 21° If you were one tooth off it wouldn't return to zero.

I'm surprised there aren't any CF's at all. With a mildly aggressive tune you typically see at least a few degrees of correction. So at least we know you aren't maxing out your CF's from a lean condition. We still have to figure out why you are running such a high LTFT. Let me think about it a little more. Hopefully someone else will also chime in with a few more ideas.

[quattro guy]

I was reading other threads, do you think it could be that the tune became corrupt? I be having irregular boost issues. Also according to what the log provided, should i worry about the knock? When i was checking that the other day i noticed that cyl 2 would get as high as 17-18volts and the rest would be around 6

[old guy]

Knock control isn’t based solely on voltage. It is based on the change in voltage as compared to a calculated baseline for each cylinder.

The knock sensors are essentially noise monitors. If one cylinder is consistently “noisier” than the others the baseline will be higher. If there is a significant variation from the baseline the ECM considers it a “knock” and starts to pull timing on that particular cylinder until the “noise” reduces to the calculated baseline.

Your log shows no corrections on any of the cylinders so I don’t think you need to be worried about knocking at this point. With that being said it is a concern that cylinder #2 is significantly “noisier” than the others. There may be a mechanical reason for it such as a worn lifter.

I have to get back to work now but I will see if I can come up with a few more things to check this evening. I am beginning to wonder about this being a tuning issue.

[old guy]

OK. Let's get back at it. It's probably worth making a quick run and log boost actual versus boost requested and see what it tells us.

Is there any chance someone did something like a diode mod to trick the ECM into increasing the boost? That could cause your LTFT's to be really high to keep up with the increased boost and air flow. Take a look at your MAP sensor plug on the intercooler and make sure it is intact and plugged in properly and not jumped with a diode. Here's the measuring block information: Clicky click® Log blocks 114 and 115 so we can see the engine load as well as the act/req boost information.

If you actual/requested looks OK I think it may be time to go ahead and increase the base map for your fueling and see if we can bring the LTFT's down to a reasonable level. Read through this thread: Clicky click® I found that it really wasn't all that hard to modify the base fueling map and reduce the LTFT. You might also get a few ideas of some more things to check before modifying the tuning.

Here's the download I used for the Uni-Setting V1.4 software. Clicky click®. You can use your VCDS cable for the interface. You will be using channel 10 to make the adjustments to the base map.



Start a spreadsheet and record everything you do with the Uni-Settings so you can always get back to where you started. Sooner or later we will get this figured out.

Good luck!

[quattro guy]

I actually have a log for specifies vs requested boost i have to find it on my lap top. But cant remember specific blocks logged. I will check tomorrow. Engine load was registered in the previous log. I will edit it tomorrow after work so it will be easy to read. Regardless i think i will do one because that log was with old knock sensor and o2 sensor as well. Also i have a random question, do you think my lean problem can cause exhaust fumes to smell like a dead animal after some moderate revs? I will also add that i deleted the combi valve, i know it's only for the SAI but just thought i should mention itIn case thats of any useful info

[Denio24]

Maybe your cat is clogged - causing insufficient flow thereby messing up calculations between the o2 sensors. Either way, we know that you're running rich because of that sulfur smell - excess fuel burning in your cat.

[old guy]

When you find your log for specified versus actual boost please take note of the readings at idle. They should match. If not it may indicate a diode mod or defective MAP sensor.

I really don't think you have a clogged cat. Especially with your MAF reading of 160 g\s. In fact, that seems awful high to me for stock injectors. The most I typically saw was around 170→175 g\s when I was running a K03 with a big injector file with both Genesis 380cc injectors and the TT 386cc injectors. I believe that's why you are seeing such high fuel trims running the stock injectors.

And as long as you blocked the combi valve port it shouldn't matter.

Gotta go to work. Now. Back tonight.

[quattro guy]

I know for a fact that the cat is not clogged because i dont have one i have a test pipe. I will look at the laptop when i get home.

[old guy]

OK.....
I've been thinking about how you are running stock injectors and flowing up to 160 g\s. So i have been doing a lot of calculations and have come to the conclusion that you have maxed out your injectors and that is probably what is causing your erratic performance issues.

I'm starting with the assumption that you are running approximately 200 CHP. That would be based on the general rule of thumb that MAF g\s divided by .8 = CHP. You are hitting around 160 g\s so 160\.8 = 200 chp.

According to USRT the stock injectors in an AMB flow at 282cc @ 3 bar (44 psi). Clicky click® I know that 3 bar is incorrect for the AMB since I have checked my fuel pressure numerous times and it's definately 4 bar (59 psi) So let's assume 4 bar is correct for now. If you use 3 bar in the equations outlined below the situation only gets worse.

You can use this Injector Duty Cycle Calculator to plug in your engine RPM and injector on time in milliseconds. Clicky click® You can get that information from your log in post #5. The MAF g\s and injector timing in ms are the last two columns. It pretty much confirms that you have maxed out your injectors.

You can also confirm this by using a Fuel Injector Size Calculator. Clicky click® To give you the benifit of the doubt I used the Fuel Pressure Calculator to convert the OEM 282cc injectors @ 3 bar (44 psi) From USRT to 4 bar (59 psi). This gives a flow rate of 326cc.

Next use the Fuel Injector Size Calculator to determine the correct injector size. I used 200 CHP, a BSFC factor of .6 and a maximum duty cycle of 85%. I came up with a required flow rate of 35 lbs/hour or 370cc/minute.

And if you think about it this makes sense. A typical big injector file utilizes either the Genesis 380's, Siemens 380's or the TT 386cc injectors. I think your basic problem is that you are maxing out your OEM injectors. That would explain the 25% LTFT corrections and erratic boost issues as the ECM makes corrections because of the inadequate fuel supply.

Good luck!

[quattro guy]

I know for a fact that the cat is not clogged because i dont have one i have a test pipe. I will look at the laptop when i get home.

[quattro guy]

Friday,29,January,2016,19:56:48:41374-VCID:336548955194F6A6BC-515E,VCDS Version: Release 15.7.3 (x64),Data version: 20151216
8E0 909 518 F,,1.8L R4/5VT G 0001,

,Group A:,'003,,,,Group B:,'114,,,,Group C:,'115
,,Engine Speed,Mass Air Flow,Throttle Valve Angle,Ignition,,Engine Load,Engine Load,Engine Load,Wastegate (N75),,Engine Speed,Engine Load,Boost Pressure,Boost Pressure
,TIME,


(G28),(G70),,Timing Angle,TIME,(specified),(spec. corrected),(actual),Duty Cycle,TIME,(G28),,(specified),(actual)
STAMP, /min, g/s, %, °BTDC,STAMP, %, %, %, %,STAMP, /min, %, mbar, mbar


,0.28,2600,29.31,15.3,30.0,0.45,170.7,174.6,57.9,0 .0,0.11,2600,57.9,960.0,1190.0

,0.79,2640,28.86,15.3,30.8,0.96,171.4,176.1,57.9,0 .0,0.62,2640,57.9,960.0,1200.0

,1.31,2680,29.19,15.7,30.8,1.48,172.9,177.6,57.9,0 .0,1.14,2680,57.9,960.0,1200.0

,1.82,2720,37.03,21.2,30.0,1.99,173.7,179.1,95.5,9 5.3,1.65,2720,58.6,960.0,1210.0

,2.34,2840,78.03,99.2,9.8,2.51,176.7,182.1,135.3,9 1.8,2.17,2800,111.3,2220.0,1460.0

,2.86,3000,103.58,100.0,3.8,3.03,179.7,186.6,179.7 ,84.7,2.68,2960,154.1,2250.0,2100.0

,3.37,3200,119.78,100.0,0.8,3.55,182.0,189.6,188.0 ,77.3,3.20,3120,188.7,2280.0,2490.0

,3.89,3400,110.17,100.0,2.3,4.06,183.5,192.5,176.7 ,78.4,3.72,3320,180.5,2290.0,2390.0

,4.41,3600,119.53,100.0,2.3,4.58,185.0,194.0,172.9 ,77.6,4.23,3520,177.4,2310.0,2360.0

,4.92,3760,123.28,99.6,3.8,5.09,185.0,194.0,169.2, 77.3,4.75,3680,170.7,2290.0,2310.0

,5.43,3960,125.44,100.0,3.0,5.60,185.7,195.5,168.4 ,77.3,5.26,3920,167.7,2270.0,2270.0

,5.95,4160,130.89,100.0,4.5,6.12,185.7,195.5,168.4 ,77.3,5.77,4080,168.4,2250.0,2260.0

,6.47,4320,138.78,100.0,6.0,6.64,185.7,195.5,166.2 ,76.9,6.30,4280,167.7,2220.0,2250.0

,6.98,4520,139.89,100.0,6.0,7.15,185.7,194.0,165.4 ,78.4,6.81,4440,165.4,2210.0,2190.0

,7.49,4680,146.67,100.0,6.0,7.67,185.0,194.0,164.7 ,80.8,7.33,4600,165.4,2200.0,2150.0

,8.02,4840,153.53,100.0,3.0,8.19,184.2,192.5,165.4 ,95.3,7.84,4760,165.4,2190.0,2130.0

,8.53,5000,154.97,100.0,5.3,8.70,183.5,192.5,163.2 ,93.7,8.36,4960,165.4,2190.0,2090.0

,9.05,5160,157.31,100.0,6.0,9.23,182.7,191.0,158.6 ,95.3,8.87,5080,161.7,2150.0,2010.0

,9.57,5280,159.64,99.6,6.0,9.75,182.0,189.6,155.6, 95.3,9.40,5240,157.9,2110.0,1950.0

,10.09,5440,157.58,100.0,8.3,10.27,181.2,188.1,151 .1,95.3,9.92,5400,154.9,2090.0,1900.0

,10.61,5560,160.42,100.0,4.5,10.77,180.5,188.1,149 .6,95.3,10.43,5520,151.1,2030.0,1840.0

,11.12,5640,161.72,100.0,6.8,11.29,179.7,186.6,145 .9,85.1,10.95,5600,149.6,1950.0,1800.0

,11.64,5760,158.11,100.0,4.5,11.81,178.9,185.1,143 .6,70.6,11.46,5720,145.1,1750.0,1800.0

,12.17,5880,157.08,99.6,5.3,12.34,178.2,183.6,137. 6,50.2,11.99,5840,143.6,1610.0,1750.0

,12.68,6000,139.14,100.0,12.8,12.85,177.4,182.1,11 8.0,73.3,12.51,5960,131.6,1520.0,1600.0

,13.21,6080,155.83,100.0,12.0,13.38,176.7,182.1,13 3.8,60.4,13.02,6040,118.8,1630.0,1470.0

,13.72,6200,147.89,99.6,12.8,13.89,176.7,180.6,124 .1,56.9,13.55,6160,133.1,1580.0,1620.0

,14.23,6280,151.56,100.0,9.8,14.40,175.9,180.6,124 .1,78.4,14.06,6240,124.1,1610.0,1520.0

,14.74,6360,160.67,100.0,8.3,14.92,175.9,180.6,130 .1,65.1,14.57,6320,129.3,1590.0,1600.0

,15.27,6440,154.33,100.0,9.0,15.44,175.9,180.6,125 .6,63.1,15.10,6400,127.8,1560.0,1590.0

,15.78,6520,153.81,100.0,12.8,15.95,175.9,179.1,12 2.6,64.7,15.61,6480,124.1,1590.0,1550.0

,16.29,6160,4.50,7.1,16.5,16.46,178.2,182.1,14.3,0 .0,16.12,6560,87.2,960.0,1600.0

,16.81,4840,80.19,58.8,29.3,16.99,184.2,188.1,103. 0,95.3,16.64,5400,14.3,960.0,1140.0



so this is the log I just did not too long ago. looks like requested boost and actual are pretty much met, but it doesn't feel like it pulls like it used to. unless I go used to my b7? lol I will upload a pic of the previous o2, maybe that will give of a few clues.

[quattro guy]

ok so I was messing around with the calculators you put a link to, yes indeed it looks like it would be maxed out at around 4000 rpm, it already was in the 90something % and just kept rising. it rose up to like 130% at some point. I think that maybe that was the power loss that I felt because it was requiring too much than what the injector could handle. so you think that the file I got are for injectors in the 380cc region? but when I originally bought the car back in 2010, the car had the same injectors but you could feel how it would pull you back, you could feel torque, now I don't really feel any. I feel like a damn Honda. actually I did a small roll race and the damn stock 1.6 Honda civic was dead even with me all the way to like 70-75 mph. I mean what kind of shit is that? lol. the only time when it actually fells like it pulls u back is when I launch it but as soon as I shit I mean it doesn't feel powerfull like it used too. also do you think that would cause the limp mode type of feeling when im on the highway. I be cruising in 6th at 70mph at around 2,600,2,700rpm and go WOT all the way to like 3,500rpm around 90 mph or so and it climbs really slow. if I do hit full boost I can hear the car's muffler loud but im actually accelerating really slow, on the times I don't hit full boost and only hit around 10psi, I cant seem to get past 80 mph(3000), I climb but really slow, almost like if im topping out the car slow. I honestly have to rev the car past 4500rpm so I can get it to accelerate enough to pass someone and that's not even that fast of pick up. I will make a video over the weekend and post it on youtube and post the link here. anyhow back to the subject. do you recommend for me to start looking for some bigger injectors? and if so which ones?

[quattro guy]

photobucket is down, I was going to post some pictures of my previous o2, but I can email them to whomever might be interested in seeing them.