A4 B5 Steering Lock Removal

[sathhin]

Hi All,

I'm new to this forum and also new to the game of owning an Audi. I bought myself a 1999 A4 B5 1.8T Quattro a couple of weeks ago with the dream of turning it into a fairly mean track car. First off, I'm completely in love with the car! I'm fairly new to the world of tuning and this kind of mechanics but so far I'm loving it! I can see why people invest so much time and effort into it :) I tend to do all my own MOT work and can do some basic fabrication and welding but this is my first attempt at going to town on a car. I thought explaining that I have a fairly limited skill level but a willingness to expand my knowledge might help with understanding where I'm coming from :)

So far I've completely stripped the interior, next week a set of bucket seats are going in and I'm fitting a test pipe to remove the cat and replace most of the exhaust with straight piping (I've heard mixed reviews on how it will sound but mainly I just want to lose the excess weight as I've been told the resonator and muffler/silencer are pretty heavy). Also planning on moving the inter-cooler to the front. Possibly a set of coilovers?

Anyway, back to the point at hand. I only have one key for this vehicle and as such I would like to convert it to a pushbutton start so that we can move it around freely where it is stored, etc. Plus I won't lie, pushbutton starts are just fun. The wiring of the electrics shouldn't be an issue and is pretty straightforward to work out. The only issue I can think of is that the steering lock will be a problem, is this a difficult beast to remove? I have no knowledge of how they work at all, I've seen some forums state that you need to remove the entire column.

Any advice on this or just on the entire project would be welcome :) Thank you for your time! Looking forward to getting more involved here.

[Wrath And Tears]

Interesting idea and welcome to the community. How do you figure a push button start would make the car easier to push around? Because I don't think it will. If you converted the car to electric power steering, that would make it way easier to move around without starting.

I guess if you removed the steering lock then you would be able to turn the wheel without turning the key to free the lock.

[sathhin]

Thanks for the reply and the welcome :)

Sorry I didn't explain very clearly! The idea behind converting to a push button start is that the car can be started and driven by anyone without a key while it is unlocked and then moved around the storage area, where I keep it, as required. I didn't mean to say that it would be easier to push around, my bad there.

I appreciate that it seems like a security risk having no key required to start but as it's a track only car that's stored in a secured area, I'm not too worried about security.

[Wrath And Tears]

Hahaha that makes a lot more sense. I couldn't believe someone would go through that much work for pushing a car. Since these cars don't have immobilizers the push button should work, just need a wiring diagram to figure out what needs to be done. I am not 100% sure about how this might affect the push-button, but I know most german cars when the key is left in the ignition there is some sort of load placed on the battery and it will drain the battery. When you do the conversion make sure the battery isn't being drained (I think there are some threads out there, try googling A4 B5 push button start, because I really know nothing about it).

[sathhin]

Glad we're on the same page lol. I've had a look at the electrics should be fairly easy to do, I've ordered the appropriate toggle switches and push switch with high current ratings. I'm having a couple of issues now though. How can I defeat the steering lock? If it's just part of the ignition barrel assembly then I assume whatever pin locks it up will be removed when I remove the barrel?

The more pressing issue is that it seems I do have an immobilizer, there's some sort of induction ring around the key entry. If I disconnect it the engine will not start. I've attached a picture below of what I'm talking about. Is there a way round this or to have the immobilizer coded out? Thanks for the help so far.

[Wrath And Tears]

Realized I don't know where Louth is, but if outside North America you would have an immobilizer. I don't know too much about them but I know they are "located" in the Instrument cluster. That connector is probably the electrical portion of the ignition switch. Assuming that when you unplug it nothing lights up on the dash when you turn the key. I'm not too sure how immobilizer defeats work, I think you send out the cluster to have it programmed out and then you would be good to go.

[Davdraco1]

You could use the funk switch as your push start.

[walky_talky20]

If it truly is a racecar, I would suggest to bypass the starter relay (assuming you have installed a starter switch of sufficient current capacity to handle the draw of the starter solenoid). The starter relay requires an "OK" signal (ground) from the anti-theft module as well as the clutch switch before it will allow power to pass to the starter solenoid. Failure of the relay itself, the clutch switch or an anti-theft module on the fritz (or wiring to/from any of those things) will leave you without a working starter. This can put a damper on race day for sure.

If you think about it, it can even put you in danger if you are racing door to door. If you slide off a corner and stall it, stopping the car in a particularly dangerous spot, a working starter becomes really important to getting out of that situation quickly. When you hit that button, you don't need any CRAP. You just need it to CRANK.

Also, there are situations where the ability to crank the starter with your foot OFF the clutch can be helpful. Here's a couple:
- Fuel pump failed / ran out of gas in bad spot: ride the starter in first gear to move the car off to the side.
- Car stalls and won't start. Might be some loose connection: Cranking the starter while you pop the clutch up (in gear) to shake the entire drivetrain a bit can allow for a magical "last chance" engine start. (Like when Marty McFly slams his head on the steering wheel to get the Delorean to start in Back to the Future).
- Reaching through the window to start the car during repairs.

For these reasons, I would personally prefer a starter switch that takes 12v+ and sends it directly the starter solenoid, without any silly junk in between. Reliability and simplicity are good things. That said, put some thought into your switch, how you power it, and where you place it. For example: you don't want to accidentally hit the button while the engine is running (an action that the original ignition switch actually protects against). You may not want it to have constant battery power, so if something falls against the switch (maybe somebody throws a helmet in the car), it won't engage the starter and run over somebody. And think about the design of the switch. A protruding push button is easy to accidentally engage by all sorts of means. A spring loaded toggle might be better installed in the "pull up" orientation, as that is harder to accidentally do then "push down" orientation. Something with a protective flip cover would add some safety, too. Just make sure to think it through. Don't make it so easy to start that it's actually dangerous.

I think a couple extra 'safety' switches in-line would be cool. So you could pretend there is some special sequence like a space shuttle has or something. Ignition! <Flip>, Thrusters A and B! <Flip, Flip>, SCE to Auxiliary! <Flip>, Main Engine Start! ...<START>. Like that.

[sathhin]

If it truly is a racecar, I would suggest to bypass the starter relay (assuming you have installed a starter switch of sufficient current capacity to handle the draw of the starter solenoid). The starter relay requires an "OK" signal (ground) from the anti-theft module as well as the clutch switch before it will allow power to pass to the starter solenoid. Failure of the relay itself, the clutch switch or an anti-theft module on the fritz (or wiring to/from any of those things) will leave you without a working starter. This can put a damper on race day for sure.

If you think about it, it can even put you in danger if you are racing door to door. If you slide off a corner and stall it, stopping the car in a particularly dangerous spot, a working starter becomes really important to getting out of that situation quickly. When you hit that button, you don't need any CRAP. You just need it to CRANK.

Also, there are situations where the ability to crank the starter with your foot OFF the clutch can be helpful. Here's a couple:
- Fuel pump failed / ran out of gas in bad spot: ride the starter in first gear to move the car off to the side.
- Car stalls and won't start. Might be some loose connection: Cranking the starter while you pop the clutch up (in gear) to shake the entire drivetrain a bit can allow for a magical "last chance" engine start. (Like when Marty McFly slams his head on the steering wheel to get the Delorean to start in Back to the Future).
- Reaching through the window to start the car during repairs.

For these reasons, I would personally prefer a starter switch that takes 12v+ and sends it directly the starter solenoid, without any silly junk in between. Reliability and simplicity are good things. That said, put some thought into your switch, how you power it, and where you place it. For example: you don't want to accidentally hit the button while the engine is running (an action that the original ignition switch actually protects against). You may not want it to have constant battery power, so if something falls against the switch (maybe somebody throws a helmet in the car), it won't engage the starter and run over somebody. And think about the design of the switch. A protruding push button is easy to accidentally engage by all sorts of means. A spring loaded toggle might be better installed in the "pull up" orientation, as that is harder to accidentally do then "push down" orientation. Something with a protective flip cover would add some safety, too. Just make sure to think it through. Don't make it so easy to start that it's actually dangerous.

I think a couple extra 'safety' switches in-line would be cool. So you could pretend there is some special sequence like a space shuttle has or something. Ignition! <Flip>, Thrusters A and B! <Flip, Flip>, SCE to Auxiliary! <Flip>, Main Engine Start! ...<START>. Like that.

Thanks for the write up, all great reasons tbh and this is exactly what I would like to have. As you said the less to go wrong the better! I've already ordered two 16A toggle switches and a 16A push to make button with some indicator LEDs for them all. I'll admit those were just because it would be fun and look cool but now I can excuse it as also for safety purposes.

I took out all the relays under the driver's side dash to see which it is and oddly enough with all the relays removed the starter motor still cranks over. Is it possible that the immobilizer is fuel related? As even without the reader ring plugged in the car will start but just doesn't continue to run.

Anyone know someone in the UK that can code out immobilisers? I'm out of other ideas.

[walky_talky20]

Yes. The immobilizer (chip in the key) authorizes fuel delivery by the ECU. It will run for a few seconds, then cut fuel. The immobilizer (IMMO) has nothing to do with the starter. In a B5, though, there is a starter authorization by the anti-theft (aka: central locking) module. I believe this is so it will disable the starter during an active alarm. This is more useful for North American B5's which do not have IMMO.

It has just occurred to me that it is possible that European models do not have this circuit. It is possible they do not have the clutch switch either, and may not even have the relay. Us dumb and [lawsuit] happy Americans seem to require all these extra protections. Here are the locations of the relay in North American B5's:

The starter relay (aka: Park/Neutral Position Relay) in the Drive-By-Wire cars (2000+) is located in position 13 in the 13-way relay carrier:



The relay in the earlier cars is located position 4 of the Central Electric:



If you don't have anything in those spots, it seems your B5's come wired "the right way" from the factory. Lucky!

[sathhin]

Thanks for the clarification. I'll see if the local remapping shop can do an IMMO code out too. I can also confirm that this car does not have that relay, nor a clutch switch.

EDIT: On second thoughts, do you happen to know how the fuel delivery is prevented by the IMMO? If it's the fuel pump then couldn't I just use a switch and relay to power it myself? Just a thought to save paying for it to be coded out, it's not cheap around here it seems.

[walky_talky20]

It is not the fuel pump that is cut. That would be way too easy for thieves to get around and Audi would the be the laughing stock of the industry for using that as a security device. You would just need to open the door, shove a wire in the fuse box and turn the ignition. It would add literally 5 seconds to the theft time of the car without IMMO.

The way it works is that the ECU cuts injector pulse to zero. Fuel pressure is there, but the injectors will not spray. There is no way around this other than disabling the IMMO, or using an ECU without IMMO.