high rpm shifting problem

[AudiTechS4]

A buddy at work has a 2001 s4 w/ rods and k24's and built heads. He installed a spec clutch/flywheel kit when he installed the engine about 3k miles any thing above 6k rpm its hard to shift . so he pulled the trans and performed the jhm synchro rebuild kit to the trans. Same issue. Any thoughts ? what we did notice was the clutch disc to flywheel has almost 0 play around the outside of the disc to the step of the flywheel. maybe its hanging up...

[julex]

That would make some awful noise, I reckon, and quickly grind to clearance anyways. Now, if he wanted to shift quick, he would have to go with some lightweight clutch disc (6 puck), not a full face one, as that's what dictates how quick can synchros speed up/Slow down to allow for shift.

Anyway, define "slow". When shifting from 1st to 2nd from 6k rpms, the tranny needs to drop about 1/2 of the RPMs in split second, that's not going to happen quick with normal weight clutch disc... 2nd to 3rd is much better since the amount of RPMs to drop is much lower. The time is basically dictated by gearing ratio differences between gears and what RPMs this take place at.

[Mille Bornes]

My 1-2 shifts are pretty slow, and get slower the higher the RPM's climb. Idk if it's normal or not but I've given up for now. I understand that a full face clutch is heavier and the rpm's dropping and everything but idk. It was never so bad with the stock clutch. I really haven't driven many manual b5's but I've driven a lot of b6 and b7's and I can shift pretty fast without issue in those.

Initially it was just about impossible for me into any gear at high rpm and it turned out the pressure plate bolts came loose. A cracked pressure plate could cause the same symptoms but I'm sure you examined it closely.

As far as my own issue is concerned, I think maybe I drove it too long with the pressure plate bolts loose (took awhile with me replacing the clutch slave and master before realizing it must be something with the clutch) and knackered the synchros in my rebuilt transmission

[AudiTechS4]

Ok the 2-3 shift is slow as in anything above 6k rpm it wont come out of second gear. so if he revs it out to 8k he has to wait till rpms hit 6k befour he can get it out of 2nd and then it shifts into 3rd
It was slow this morning on the freeway and he did a 3rd gear pull to 7500 and shifted into 4th just fine so its a 2-3 shift. so we did some talking and got some better info

Original problem - shifting into a higher gear like 2-3 or 3-4 it came out of gear just find but couldnt get it into the higher gear easy. so he did the jhm shift collar and carbon synchros kit (had 1/2 collar lock up) now it seems that hes only having an issue getting out of second gear at a high rpm.

[jaychen]

Ok the 2-3 shift is slow as in anything above 6k rpm it wont come out of second gear. so if he revs it out to 8k he has to wait till rpms hit 6k befour he can get it out of 2nd and then it shifts into 3rd
It was slow this morning on the freeway and he did a 3rd gear pull to 7500 and shifted into 4th just fine so its a 2-3 shift. so we did some talking and got some better info

Original problem - shifting into a higher gear like 2-3 or 3-4 it came out of gear just find but couldnt get it into the higher gear easy. so he did the jhm shift collar and carbon synchros kit (had 1/2 collar lock up) now it seems that hes only having an issue getting out of second gear at a high rpm.

call Scotty @ advanced.

he knows 01E's extremely well.

[AudiTechS4]

well he pulled the trans back out swapped in the dual mass and all is well. he talked to ecs and they told him only way to get any kind of refund is the send them the entire clutch kit meaning he has to but a new clutch kit and hope he gets a full refund.

so the clutch disc to flywheel clearance was not enough causing the hang up on shifting.

[viceprp]

Single flywheel will lock you out at high rpm. I had similar problems on my A4 at the track and it wouldn't come out if gear til nearly 5500 and by that time it would be out of its powerband and need to build boost for the following gear.

I had less problems with a track density diff mount. Oh. I also broke a trans mount bracket that day as well.

[AudiTechS4]

I don't see how a singe mass flywheel locks you out of high rpm shifting. This was a case of a machining error

[WESLIFE]

The clutch disc was too thick!

[AudiTechS4]

No the clutch disc is not the problem . if you read what i wrote you can see there the disc is grinding into the flywheel surround. there was almost no wiggle room for the disc

[jaychen]

No the clutch disc is not the problem . if you read what i wrote you can see there the disc is grinding into the flywheel surround. there was almost no wiggle room for the disc

thanks for posting the cause. clear case of incorrect tolerances. if they don't offer a refund for that I would be going to the ombudsmen (not sure if you have that in your state).

[themadscientist]

In the future, if you're trying to differentiate between a synchro and clutch issue, put it in 1st, clutch pedal all the way down, on a perfectly level or slightly downhill surface. Rev it out to redline. If the car creeps forward, even the tiniest bit, you're clutch isn't fully disengaging.

[audi-hammer]

Hmm good to know. Had an issue with a spec clutch grinding gears when revving past 5k and trying to shift into 2nd or 3rd, thought it was the trans at first

In the future, if you're trying to differentiate between a synchro and clutch issue, put it in 1st, clutch pedal all the way down, on a perfectly level or slightly downhill surface. Rev it out to redline. If the car creeps forward, even the tiniest bit, you're clutch isn't fully disengaging.

[james 408]

glad you sorted it. I'd buy a new kit, and expect a refund (can't imagine they'd be so stupid as to send out clearly incompatable parts and not refund it, assuming both pieces were from ECS and ordered together). I would also be extremely pissed, if they give you any flack on it. Manufacturing defect is one thing, but this looks like it was straight up misengineered -- I would argue there's grounds for them paying for labor as well.

There are absolutely zero issues associated with my single mass aluminum Fidanza flywheel. been running it for 6 years, love it. $150 to put a brand new wear surface on it is all I've had. Zero chatter with b5 rs4 clutch, some chatter, especially cold, with a pucky race clutch i've got on it now.

[AudiTechS4]

he talked with spec today - found out they had the wrong disc in the clutch kit. they wont pay for labor but said they can send him the correct disc. meaning they flywheel is all jacked up still and he would have to pull the trans again. I'm pissed off and its not even my car. They are going to gt back to him tomorrow for the final stand by spec. Ill keep you updated

[WESLIFE]

Who ever put the clutch in the car should have partial blame. He should have noticed that the disc didn't fit properly. "I still think the disc was to thick".

[AudiTechS4]

Well you would still be wrong because it works perfect in the stock flywheel that has more radial clearance. Why are you not banned yet.

He put the clutch in . The disc isn't a press fit into the flywheel it had about 1mm of clearance all the way around the disc. the disc they gave him was .1" to big they gave him a 9.5" disc and it should have been a 9.4" disc.

[WESLIFE]

Well you would still be wrong because it works perfect in the stock flywheel that has more radial clearance. Why are you not banned yet.

He put the clutch in . The disc isn't a press fit into the flywheel it had about 1mm of clearance all the way around the disc. the disc they gave him was .1" to big they gave him a 9.5" disc and it should have been a 9.4" disc.

I'm going to assume that you are a man! If this is so, why are you so bent on me being banned. I'm almost certain it's because you hate that I am a better car enthusiast/mechanic than you. I still love you though. It's a new year. If you ever need any help, please don't be afraid to call.

[DieselElectric]

I am a better car enthusiast/mechanic than you.

Proof?

[jaychen]

I'm going to assume that you are a man! If this is so, why are you so bent on me being banned. I'm almost certain it's because you hate that I am a better car enthusiast/mechanic than you. I still love you though. It's a new year. If you ever need any help, please don't be afraid to call.

faw is still jacked up about his 600whp car running 105mph on the big end.

[AudiTechS4]

Yes you're far better then me in every way,I've just been a master guild audi tech for 10 years. Just look at your last 20 posts . they really show how much of an enthusiast you are. Weird you talk alot of shit but never post up your sweet whip. Let's see that pile of shit you call a car that you made in a shed! Please post another video of it barely making it down the qt mile.

[AudiTechS4]

Proof?

You won't find it . he just talks shit. Hes a bitch , complains and talks shit about everyone else's stuff but never posts hisown.

[AudiTechS4]

update - he sent the flywheel to spec and they issued a refund to the distributer (not ecs - they are not a distributer of spec) So my buddy contacted ecs and told them spec issued a refund for the flywheel to the distributer. they need to contact the distributor and get the refund for him since they purchased it from the distributer. they guy at ecs doesn't want to help at all it seems like. I cant remember his name , josh or something with their warranty department. hopefully they can get it handled . maybe ECS will chime in

[JaredB5s4]

Yes you're far better then me in every way,I've just been a master guild audi tech for 10 years. Just look at your last 20 posts . they really show how much of an enthusiast you are. Weird you talk alot of shit but never post up your sweet whip. Let's see that pile of shit you call a car that you made in a shed! Please post another video of it barely making it down the qt mile.

Roasted


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[Zba]

WESLIFE = entertainment

We'd all be sad if he/she/it left, admit it