DSG Reliability at higher HP

[Eric_C]

I am going back and forth on what to do for my next car.

What I keep going back to is how much I enjoy the engine/trans combo in the S4. There are faster cars but none that I have ever driven that react better, or quicker than the 3.0t/DSG combo. Driven hard its the best automatic I've driven and I have driven pretty much every competitor and those a few steps above.

I have always leased and gotten a new car every 2-3 years. I've considered an S6 because of the DSG but it will miss the immediacy of the S4. I've thought of a Panamera Turbo(year old) but same thing, way more power, much faster car, but will miss the instant reaction I get with the S4.

My DD in the summer is a 720hp Stingray and even it does not react like my S4.

The S4 does not handle nearly as well as most of the competition, the steering isn't great and at higher speeds the body roll is very pronounced.

It's also a little slower than I would like.

I had been considering buying the car and fixing what is wrong. Suspension, tune, etc. Firm the car up, make it faster but the one thing I concern myself with is the reliability of the DSG at say 450hp.

This is my winter/poor weather daily driver so I put a lot of miles on it, I'm just into the 2nd year of my lease and already at 33k, that does not include the miles I put in my C7 or our SQ5. I buy extra miles but I'd expect to see 100K miles within 3 years.

My pay off will be less than what I would put into another car, figure the mods won't cost too much...I just do not want the DSG to be a never ending pit of money or not perform well at those power levels.

Anyone doing it now on a true DD?

[GRUMPY-S4]

What do you mean by "instant reaction"?


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[Eric_C]

Torque.

In sport mode the immediacy of the throttle.

[LINDW4LL]

Most of the DSG failures are electronics/Mechatronics related.

I don't think power level really factors into it at all. I've yet to hear any longevity issues as it relates to power level.

[EBS4]

I'm not sure by what you mean for 'competition.' The S4 handles better than the 335i BMW and the C class Mercedes (except perhaps the new C450 AMG which I haven't driven). Motortrend said the S5 has better steering than the 435i. I agree on the body roll but the car is designed to be comfortable and sporty. Sounds like you need a different car to me.

Cheers,
EBS4

[raudiace4]

That panamera turbo's PDK is much better than the DSG. You won't have any "instant reaction" problems from it.

[Frinkferta]

It sounds like you really like your S4. If you are concerned over future transmission issues, then you should keep it. The transmission is pretty stout at holding up the power of a tune.

[Eric_C]

The steering is poor. Vague, over boosted, and tough to drive smooth because of those two factors.

I should have been more clear, the handling and steering feel is better in other cars, not a specific model. I'm not looking at what Motortrend or anyone one else has said, just my impression of driving all of them.

I am talking about the instant response of the motor. With a turbo, even if your at an RPM where there is positive pressure it still takes time to react, with the PD blower you do not get that at all.

I've driven the 3.0 turbo PDK in both the Panamera and Macan. The trans is excellent but the engine responsiveness is still not there.

[S4NJ]

What do you mean by "it's a little slower than I would like"?


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[S4NJ]

You're "looking" at a Porsche Turbo and you're sweating a DSG trans. Please dude.


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[mavz]

You should test drive any porsche with a PDK if you think that the tranny isn't going to be spot on... it's probably the best DCT in the world.

I haven't read anything with ppl having issues with their DSG's even at stg2 but just get what you like the most. People will tell you their own opinions, but just go test drive everything your're considering and get/keep the one you like the most. All of the S4's competition can also be modified to be better than they are so yeah.

[Eric_C]

You're "looking" at a Porsche Turbo and you're sweating a DSG trans. Please dude.


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Care to explain? No one seems to have read exactly what I wrote, this has nothing to do with the trans.

You should test drive any porsche with a PDK if you think that the tranny isn't going to be spot on... it's probably the best DCT in the world.

I haven't read anything with ppl having issues with their DSG's even at stg2 but just get what you like the most. People will tell you their own opinions, but just go test drive everything your're considering and get/keep the one you like the most. All of the S4's competition can also be modified to be better than they are so yeah.

This has nothing to do with the trans. The responsiveness I am talking to is the torque from the PD blower.

I'd only consider a car with a dual clutch from now on. We have an SQ5 also and its not the same with the TC trans. The M3/M4 doesn't have AWD and since its primarily a winter car that is a must.

[moose_head]

I'm trying to follow here but it seems like you want to replicate the responsiveness of the 3.0t/DSG combo while improving on handling.

Anyway, yes people run stage 2 (~450hp) as daily drivers, for years without issue, and yes they add handling mods. People say Eurocode's Alu Kreuz or 034 stabilizer/braces and now, the CR-15 upper-strut-tower-brace (see other forum thread) are like night and day for steering. If you are talking about a B8.5 (2013+) the Audi dealer also has a TSB software update for 'notchy' steering if that's what you are experiencing, but some people found the fix even worse as it makes the 'dynamic' mode steering a bit looser (I got used to it after mine was done.)

[wwhan]

Care to explain? No one seems to have read exactly what I wrote, this has nothing to do with the trans.

This has nothing to do with the trans. The responsiveness I am talking to is the torque from the PD blower.

I'd only consider a car with a dual clutch from now on. We have an SQ5 also and its not the same with the TC trans. The M3/M4 doesn't have AWD and since its primarily a winter car that is a must.

There are limited choices for a single car with everything: AWD, DCT, Supercharged engine, sedan & good handling.

[Eric_C]

I'm trying to follow here but it seems like you want to replicate the responsiveness of the 3.0t/DSG combo while improving on handling.

Anyway, yes people run stage 2 (~450hp) as daily drivers, for years without issue, and yes they add handling mods. People say Eurocode's Alu Kreuz or 034 stabilizer/braces and now, the CR-15 upper-strut-tower-brace (see other forum thread) are like night and day for steering. If you are talking about a B8.5 (2013+) the Audi dealer also has a TSB software update for 'notchy' steering if that's what you are experiencing, but some people found the fix even worse as it makes the 'dynamic' mode steering a bit looser (I got used to it after mine was done.)

Thank you.

Yes that is exactly what I am looking at. I have a '14 and it has not been back to the dealer since purchase so I will check the TSB.

There is just something about the car I enjoy from that aspect, it is not about the price of another car, or anything like that. If I could improve the steering, its vagueness makes it difficult to hold a steady line in a corner, reduce the roll a bit and add some more power I think I'd be happy with it for a while.

[hodrosS42001]

Thank you.

Yes that is exactly what I am looking at. I have a '14 and it has not been back to the dealer since purchase so I will check the TSB.

There is just something about the car I enjoy from that aspect, it is not about the price of another car, or anything like that. If I could improve the steering, its vagueness makes it difficult to hold a steady line in a corner, reduce the roll a bit and add some more power I think I'd be happy with it for a while.

Jesus S6/S7 guys have been pushing 600+ ft lbs of torque through these transmissions. Albeit a different trans code, I doubt much I'd different as many of the part numbers are identical. Don't worry about the transmission. Especially at Stage 2 levels.

[superswiss]

Jesus S6/S7 guys have been pushing 600+ ft lbs of torque through these transmissions. Albeit a different trans code, I doubt much I'd different as many of the part numbers are identical. Don't worry about the transmission. Especially at Stage 2 levels.

The limiting factor in these transmissions are the clutch packs. They can't take much more than the S6/7 stock torque, so what APR and others have done is they limit the torque until the clutches are fully engaged in particular during lunch control.

[S4NJ]

Care to explain? No one seems to have read exactly what I wrote, this has nothing to do with the trans.

This has nothing to do with the trans. The responsiveness I am talking to is the torque from the PD blower.

You're missing the point, home slice. If you already spent $ on a fast Vette and looking to buy an expensive turbo P car, wtf do you care about replacing a dsg trans down the line if it gives you problems. Are you kidding me? just do it "Nike".
Peace.



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[moophone]

I wouldn't call the CR-15 brace "Night and Day" for steering on my B8.5. Its a subtle, and very worth while, improvement.

FWIW I'm APR Stage 2+ w/ TCU tune and my biggest complaint now is the sloppy stock (non-sport) suspension. To the OP, do you have the sport suspension, or non-sport? I purchased ST Coilovers which are hopefully going on next week. I'll pick up a rear sway bar next year as well.

I'm trying to follow here but it seems like you want to replicate the responsiveness of the 3.0t/DSG combo while improving on handling.

Anyway, yes people run stage 2 (~450hp) as daily drivers, for years without issue, and yes they add handling mods. People say Eurocode's Alu Kreuz or 034 stabilizer/braces and now, the CR-15 upper-strut-tower-brace (see other forum thread) are like night and day for steering. If you are talking about a B8.5 (2013+) the Audi dealer also has a TSB software update for 'notchy' steering if that's what you are experiencing, but some people found the fix even worse as it makes the 'dynamic' mode steering a bit looser (I got used to it after mine was done.)

[Eric_C]

You're missing the point, home slice. If you already spent $ on a fast Vette and looking to buy an expensive turbo P car, wtf do you care about replacing a dsg trans down the line if it gives you problems. Are you kidding me? just do it "Nike".
Peace.



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Year old Turbo Panamera's are not that expensive but I am looking at reliability and TCO. I don't want to be screwing with the car constantly. If it was a reliability issue I'd look elsewhere. I like the PD blower but I don't need something that is constantly having issues.

The SC setup on a C7 is pretty inexpensive for what you get. I think I was in less than 8K for the SC, Meth, Tune, and install for 650rwhp. With the manual they are near bulletproof and drive like stock.

[roadawg]

The S4 is the best handling car in its class. It also does not have terrible body roll, what are you comparing it to exactly? Comparing it to other cars in general, is not its direct competition and makes no sense. Of course a Vette handles better than an S4.

Apples to llamas in this thread.


I'd love to hear a) what tires you have on your S4 b) if it has a sport diff c) if you have Audi drive select.

Please tell me you're running PSS or equivalent tires, have the sport diff and have it in dynamic mode. Otherwise, we are really just going full retard here and not only comparing the S4 to any car out there, and not doing it right to begin with.

If you have good rubber, a sport diff and ADS and still feel like it handles bad you simply are not comparing it to its true competition (335 C400, IS350) or just doing it wrong.

[S4NJ]

Year old Turbo Panamera's are not that expensive but I am looking at reliability and TCO. I don't want to be screwing with the car constantly. If it was a reliability issue I'd look elsewhere. I like the PD blower but I don't need something that is constantly having issues.

The SC setup on a C7 is pretty inexpensive for what you get. I think I was in less than 8K for the SC, Meth, Tune, and install for 650rwhp. With the manual they are near bulletproof and drive like stock.

Ok cool. Good luck wit your final decision.


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[Eric_C]

The S4 is the best handling car in its class. It also does not have terrible body roll, what are you comparing it to exactly? Comparing it to other cars in general, is not its direct competition and makes no sense. Of course a Vette handles better than an S4.

Apples to llamas in this thread.


I'd love to hear a) what tires you have on your S4 b) if it has a sport diff c) if you have Audi drive select.

Please tell me you're running PSS or equivalent tires, have the sport diff and have it in dynamic mode. Otherwise, we are really just going full retard here and not only comparing the S4 to any car out there, and not doing it right to begin with.

If you have good rubber, a sport diff and ADS and still feel like it handles bad you simply are not comparing it to its true competition (335 C400, IS350) or just doing it wrong.

I do have Sports Diff and ADS. Tires are decent but not great, AS3's which were better than the Conti summer tires it came with.

At high speeds it does have a lot of body roll and I'll even compare the roll in it is worse than our SQ5 at the same speed but the SQ has way better tires on it, nothing to do with roll but it feels a lot more confident at speeds over 80. Doesn't mean it handles better, feels a lot better.

Steering feel and body roll are my two biggest issues. Body roll is easy to fix. Steering has a lot of factors.

[EBS4]

Sounds like something might be wrong with your S4. I've driven an SQ5 for 500 miles back to back with my S4 (also on AS3s) and in no way did the SQ5 feel as stable above 70mph. Body roll was far worse in the SQ5 which is to be expected given its higher COG.

Maybe the S4 just isn't the car for you after driving some seriously faster rides?

NM

[Eric_C]

Sounds like something might be wrong with your S4. I've driven an SQ5 for 500 miles back to back with my S4 (also on AS3s) and in no way did the SQ5 feel as stable above 70mph. Body roll was far worse in the SQ5 which is to be expected given its higher COG.

Maybe the S4 just isn't the car for you after driving some seriously faster rides?

NM

Our SQ has the 21's and it is very flat on high speed corners.

I have heard a noise coming from the rear of the car from time to time. I just drove down to Florida and back. In the warmer weather it was pretty pronounced but really didn't think about it again till you mentioned it. Suppose it could be a bad end link.

[pdqgp]

The S4 is the best handling car in its class. It also does not have terrible body roll, what are you comparing it to exactly? Comparing it to other cars in general, is not its direct competition and makes no sense. Of course a Vette handles better than an S4.

I agree. It's a daily driver not a weekend racecar. I would say even with ADS set to comfort the car is still rather stiff. I actually wish the car could go much softer for times when I have family in it. I normally drive in Individual mode with the suspension set to comfort, unless I'm looking to enjoy the curves more.