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  1. #1
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Mar 20 2004
    AZ Member #
    1354
    Location
    boulder, colorado

    B7 Timing help please

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    Realizing that the timing discussions have been beaten to death, I must ask - it's apparent that my bank1 exhaust cam has skipped a tooth thus out of timing. Would being off time a single tooth result in bent exhaust valves? I am going to take the exhaust manifold off today to do a visual inspection of the exhaust valves.

    At the moment I am going with the power of denial and telling myself everything is fine, but if anyone has any insight on this, please jump in.

    Will be ordering a JHM timing kit today. Does anyone have a set of timing tools for rent?

    thx!

  2. #2
    Veteran Member Four Rings gcoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 06 2009
    AZ Member #
    40835
    My Garage
    2005 B6 S4 6mt Avant & 2001 B5 S4 6mt Avant (Sold) & 2007 VW Passat 3.6 4Mo wagon
    Location
    Boise Id

    Mine skipped a tooth & I did not bend valves. I did a full timing service & the car runs like a champ.

    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...iming+warriors

    You could pull the plugs, scope into the cylinders and see if the valves touched the piston heads...

  3. #3
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Mar 20 2004
    AZ Member #
    1354
    Location
    boulder, colorado

    many thx for the reply GCOY. This is the encouragement I need.

  4. #4
    Veteran Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    364349
    My Garage
    2004 s4 Avant, 2005.5 S4 Manual swapped, 2002 A4 3.0 6 speed, 2004 A4 1.8 5 speed
    Location
    Oregon

    Yeah, a skipped tooth isn't the end all for timing damage. a scope would be the best thing you could do right now. Hopefully all you will need to do is a timing refresh. Is this your only car?
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S42011 Dieselgate Q7 TDI..... patiently waiting for my warranty to expire!!

    My build log
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    "Everyone is An expert when they make their own category."

  5. #5
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Mar 20 2004
    AZ Member #
    1354
    Location
    boulder, colorado

    Hey Vinny,

    nope this car is a toy. Although, I seam to have more non-functional toys than running and driving cars these days.

    I will poke around HomeDepot for a scope.

    cheers!

  6. #6
    Veteran Member Four Rings gcoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 06 2009
    AZ Member #
    40835
    My Garage
    2005 B6 S4 6mt Avant & 2001 B5 S4 6mt Avant (Sold) & 2007 VW Passat 3.6 4Mo wagon
    Location
    Boise Id

    Quote Originally Posted by drwest View Post
    many thx for the reply GCOY. This is the encouragement I need.
    Good luck. Keep us posted.

  7. #7
    Active Member One Ring
    Join Date
    Aug 28 2015
    AZ Member #
    352355
    My Garage
    1991 nissan 300zx twin turbo 2005.5 audi s4
    Location
    San Antonio Tx

    Since were on the timing subject whats should the timing be at idle and wot??

  8. #8
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Mar 20 2004
    AZ Member #
    1354
    Location
    boulder, colorado

    well now I am committed. A JHM intermediate kit is now on order.

    One would think that JHM would offer free for discounted rate for tool rental if a timing kit was bought from them. That would be a nice incentive....just sayin

  9. #9
    Veteran Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    364349
    My Garage
    2004 s4 Avant, 2005.5 S4 Manual swapped, 2002 A4 3.0 6 speed, 2004 A4 1.8 5 speed
    Location
    Oregon

    yeah free with a deposit and contingent on nothing being broken, that would be a good deal. It sucks when the tools cost a few hundred dollars for a job you will likely do only once....
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S42011 Dieselgate Q7 TDI..... patiently waiting for my warranty to expire!!

    My build log
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    "Everyone is An expert when they make their own category."

  10. #10
    Senior Member Three Rings hkdolphins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 03 2014
    AZ Member #
    299947
    My Garage
    Noggy Avant, B8.5 Allroad
    Location
    SF/CA

    My one is 117K now, how do i know i need to get timing done? Will any code show up?
    B6 Noggy Avant, B8.5 Allroad

  11. #11
    Veteran Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    364349
    My Garage
    2004 s4 Avant, 2005.5 S4 Manual swapped, 2002 A4 3.0 6 speed, 2004 A4 1.8 5 speed
    Location
    Oregon

    from what i have read and seen, you will get a little rattle on start up. Audi intended the timing components to be a "Lifetime" item, however, even though the chains are considered a lifetime item, the plastic guides are the first thing to normally go, followed by the mechanical cam adjusters. Most of the time you can hear the rattle on start up (the 1 to 2 second rattle is considered normal). However that is not always the case. Sometimes the components just go. The mileage that a lot of people tend to toss around as the average time to get it done, is 100k. Some people swear by this mileage, others say it is a scare tactic. I personally am going to do it as a maintenance item at/around 100k because the cost of rebuilding/replacing the heads if the pistons make valve contact, is more then i want to spend. I have seen a guy with 150k on stock timing components, and i have also seen them fail as soon as 40k. If you tackle it as a DIY, you will save roughly $3000. If you are not so mechanically inclined, be prepared to spend $4500+ It is a hard thing to stomach spending that much on a car as a maintenance item, however, the cost of the timing components, AND rebuilt heads/new valves far exceeds the cost of doing the service. Some people just wait until they go and buy a long block to replace their old one with. However, the one they replace could be in need of the service as well. JHM sells the kits for less than what the dealer charges and they include the updated RS4 guides that fail and their in house built mechanical adjusters that are suppose to be stronger then the OEM ones. I hope this helps you determine if you want/need the service.
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S42011 Dieselgate Q7 TDI..... patiently waiting for my warranty to expire!!

    My build log
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    "Everyone is An expert when they make their own category."

  12. #12
    Senior Member Three Rings hkdolphins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 03 2014
    AZ Member #
    299947
    My Garage
    Noggy Avant, B8.5 Allroad
    Location
    SF/CA

    Thank VinnysS4.

    Im totally not handy at all, JHM is my choice i will go for this service. I know this will cost me a much but i love to keep it until the end.
    I read and saw the pic about the plastic guides broken, will this lead to the mechanical cam adjusters (or pistons make valve contact)? As far as i know, it cant tell the plastic guides broken or not by 1-2 second rattle when cold start (my one has it sometimes, guess 1 out of 3), right?
    B6 Noggy Avant, B8.5 Allroad

  13. #13
    Veteran Member Four Rings VinnysS4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 12 2015
    AZ Member #
    364349
    My Garage
    2004 s4 Avant, 2005.5 S4 Manual swapped, 2002 A4 3.0 6 speed, 2004 A4 1.8 5 speed
    Location
    Oregon

    A broken guide can cause Chain Slap and cause the chain to jump a tooth and that is what will cause valve to piston contact. The mechanical adjusters have a metal pin in them that locks into a hole. Over time that hole "wollows " out as JHM puts it, eventually getting bad enough that the pin won't lock in anymore. This would cause half of the engine to misfire and fault codes to follow. You probably would only need their intermediate kit
    1997 VW GTI VR6 (sold), 2003 Audi RS6 (sold), 2010 Audi A4 2.0T (RIP Totaled on 11/2/2015 ) 2005.5 Audi S42011 Dieselgate Q7 TDI..... patiently waiting for my warranty to expire!!

    My build log
    http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-s-s4-timeline

    "Everyone is An expert when they make their own category."

  14. #14
    Active Member Four Rings S4orgy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 11 2008
    AZ Member #
    35160
    My Garage
    05' B6 S4 B.R. 2000 B5 2.8 B.B.
    Location
    New Britain/Farmington, CT

    Compression test will let you know
    05' B6 S4 Brilliant Red 6MT: JHM 93 Tune ● JHM Ported Manifold w/spacers ● JHM Lightweight Pulley ● JHM Lightweight Flywheel ● JHM STG3 Clutch ● A.W.E. Catless 2.5" Downpipes ● Custom 2.5" Corsa Non-Res Exhaust w/x-pipe ● KW V3 Coilovers ● Stern Adjustable Upper Control Arms ● JHM Short Throw Shifter

    00' B5 A4 2.8 5MT: Gone

  15. #15
    Established Member Two Rings
    Join Date
    Jul 01 2015
    AZ Member #
    340098
    Location
    Metro Detroit

    I have tools to rent or sell depending on your needs. PM me if you're interested.
    Matt, Metro-Detroit, Brilliant Red '04 S4
    I have timing tools for rent

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